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Is it better to say something, or to keep my mouth shut?


TheGrey
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You know the old phrase "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."?

 

Well, let's say you found a cache that was on the low end of your caching experience. (Micro attached to a stop sign in a warehouse district near a busy freeway with a lot of trash around.)

 

What do you put for your log? A simple "TFTC"? Or something like... "Thanks, but I didn't enjoy this one much because of... blah, blah, blah"

 

On one hand, I think I should say my true feelings so the cache hider learns and hopefully avoids some of these things on future caches. On the other hand, none of the other logs complain about it, and the guy did go through the effort to put this one out there... Maybe other people enjoy it and that's good enough?

 

What would you post?

Edited by TheGrey
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On the other hand, none of the other logs complain about it, and they guy did go through the effort to put this one out there... Maybe other people enjoy it and that's good enough?

 

What would you post?

 

Well, you did think enough of it to stop and find it, so it might be bad form to say that you didn't much care for it. Some folks are happy with these types of caches, some aren't. A simple, "Quick find. Thanks." is usually what I log on unmemorable caches. I do get another smiley out of it, at least.

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You know the old phrase "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."?

 

Well, let's say you found a cache that was on the low end of your caching experience. (Micro attached to a stop sign in a warehouse district near a busy freeway with a lot of trash around.)

 

What do you put for your log? A simple "TFTC"? Or something like... "Thanks, but I didn't enjoy this one much because of... blah, blah, blah"

 

On one hand, I think I should say my true feelings so the cache hider learns and hopefully avoids some of these things on future caches. On the other hand, none of the other logs complain about it, and they guy did go through the effort to put this one out there... Maybe other people enjoy it and that's good enough?

 

What would you post?

 

My $.02:

 

Post a simple 'TFTC' on the log page. If you feel strongly about saying something to the cache owner, send your comments separately via email (if possible). To me, this kind of follows the golden rule of Praise in Public, Suggest in Private.

 

Team Gecko

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On one hand, I think I should say my true feelings so the cache hider learns and hopefully avoids some of these things on future caches.

I know you don't mean this, but think about this for a moment - I could read this as "people should only hide finds you enjoy".

 

I'm with atmospherium on this one - log a "quick find, TFTC" and move on. Avoid the drama.

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Well, you knew it was a micro before you went there and probably had a clue that it was in a business district. You could have chosen to not get it. As you got closer you could have chosen to drive on by so to speak.

 

Since you chose to locate it and sign it the owner deserves a courteous response.

 

And since you are basically a newbie I doubt this will be your lowest experience. You could eliminate this by upping the D and T in your PQ.

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You could write "not my kind of location, but thanks anyway".

 

Or a 500 word log about how "awesome" it was with multiple pictures of all the scenery. Saying something nice all of the time probably is how humourous sarcasm originated. I don't like nasty sarcasm, but if it's funny then I enjoy it.

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I think you should share your experience in your log. You seem like a genuine person so when you share your experience, I would expect you to be honest.

 

As a cache owner, I would very much appreciate cache finders writing a log sharing their experience. I would expect this experience to be honest and not disengenious. If they felt the cache sucked for whatever reason, that is exactly what I would like to read in their log.

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As someone who reads through logs and what people say in their logs can help me prioritise caches that I want to go for, I truly appreciate it when people speak their mind. As long as the wording makes it clear that these are your opinions. If someone saying "this cache sucked because blah blah blah." is not helpful, but saying "I didn't enjoy it much, not really into blah blah blah..." in my opinion, would be fine.

 

or like what 4wheelin_fool said.

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You know the old phrase "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."?

 

Well, let's say you found a cache that was on the low end of your caching experience. (Micro attached to a stop sign in a warehouse district near a busy freeway with a lot of trash around.)

 

What do you put for your log? A simple "TFTC"? Or something like... "Thanks, but I didn't enjoy this one much because of... blah, blah, blah"

 

On one hand, I think I should say my true feelings so the cache hider learns and hopefully avoids some of these things on future caches. On the other hand, none of the other logs complain about it, and the guy did go through the effort to put this one out there... Maybe other people enjoy it and that's good enough?

 

What would you post?

 

I don't think that it is the cache hider that needs educating.

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You know the old phrase "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."?

 

Well, let's say you found a cache that was on the low end of your caching experience. (Micro attached to a stop sign in a warehouse district near a busy freeway with a lot of trash around.)

 

What do you put for your log? A simple "TFTC"? Or something like... "Thanks, but I didn't enjoy this one much because of... blah, blah, blah"

 

On one hand, I think I should say my true feelings so the cache hider learns and hopefully avoids some of these things on future caches. On the other hand, none of the other logs complain about it, and the guy did go through the effort to put this one out there... Maybe other people enjoy it and that's good enough?

 

What would you post?

 

I don't think that it is the cache hider that needs educating.

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Speaking as an Old Noob, I'd atleast say: "TFTC. Great place for a CITO"

You don't have to get too honest about how badly it sucked, and it warns others who will be similarly unimpressed.

 

If I were completely well and truely unimpressed, I'd go on in great detail about the wonderful trail, scenic overlooks, natural wildlife, breathtaking views...

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It's been my experience that cache owners generally don't appreciate it if you are honest when you don't like their hide.

You might think you are doing them, and other cachers, a favor by saying what you feel but the cache owner will probably talk crap behind your back and snub you at geocaching events if you are honest.

 

"TFTC" is my way of saying "I'm glad you like hiding caches so much that you just toss them about wherever you can. Although I generally think this type of hide sucks, I did find it and I thank you for the smiley. If you don't see me logging any more finds on your caches it's probably because I realize most of your hides are micro spew. Thanks anyhow"

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It seems to me quite a few enjoy the P&G's regardless of where they're located. Sometimes folks just like to grab a quick hit off of the ol' geocaching pipe and move on. They're not looking for spectacular views, scenic hikes or head-scratching searches.

 

It may not be your thing, and that's fine, simply avoid them in the future. The wonderful thing about geocaching is that it appeals to so many people for different reasons.

 

I like Double Agents response:

 

"TFTC. Great place for a CITO"

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It seems to me quite a few enjoy the P&G's regardless of where they're located. Sometimes folks just like to grab a quick hit off of the ol' geocaching pipe and move on. They're not looking for spectacular views, scenic hikes or head-scratching searches.

 

It may not be your thing, and that's fine, simply avoid them in the future. The wonderful thing about geocaching is that it appeals to so many people for different reasons.

 

I like Double Agents response:

 

"TFTC. Great place for a CITO"

 

+1

 

I've also seen "Thanks for the smiley." I like it 'cause it says the one thing the hide was good for -doesn't uneccessarily dis anything.

 

And I will say. "TFTC. Good 'ole cache and dash" note it as such if the hider left it off the description.

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Comment on something other than the cache...

 

...It was probably a bad idea to pick rush hour for this find.

 

...Wow I never knew it could rain this hard!

 

...Battled a bad cold to try for this FTF

 

...Stubbed my toe on the walk up to this cache.

 

...Brrrrr. Cold day today - the canal was frozen over!

 

...Picked this on up on my way home from the cinema.

 

...My 10th cache in this town, completing the set.

 

...The title of this cache appealed to my sporting side, so I had to go for it.

 

...The townhouses along the nearby street are a fine example of Victorian middle-class architecture.

 

...An SUV parked nearby is exactly the shade of my carpet at home.

 

You can always find something to say, be it positive, neutral, or off-the-wall.

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"TFTC" is my way of saying "I'm glad you like hiding caches so much that you just toss them about wherever you can. Although I generally think this type of hide sucks, I did find it and I thank you for the smiley. If you don't see me logging any more finds on your caches it's probably because I realize most of your hides are micro spew. Thanks anyhow"

WHAT? you don't think a film cannister under the dumpster behind 7-11 is a scenic view? ;)

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On the other hand, none of the other logs complain about it, and they guy did go through the effort to put this one out there... Maybe other people enjoy it and that's good enough?

 

What would you post?

 

Well, you did think enough of it to stop and find it, so it might be bad form to say that you didn't much care for it. Some folks are happy with these types of caches, some aren't. A simple, "Quick find. Thanks." is usually what I log on unmemorable caches. I do get another smiley out of it, at least.

 

I refuse to say thank yoy for another scenic dumpster vista. The again I would have driven right by without stopping.

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if you think the position or amount of litter is a hazzard you have every right to say something but be polite. i have in the past. doing a series of 12 caches there was some with the same title but different owner which was in dirty smelly back alley, i had no problems voicing my opinions

Edited by team mx
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so the cache hider learns and hopefully avoids some of these things on future caches.

 

The learning curve to "avoids some of these things" is yours, not the cache owner's. The cache owner knows where it's hidden.

 

If urban micros in industrial areas aren't enjoyable to you, try to use the website features to not hunt them.

 

I probably wouldn't log it, but I wouldn't have signed the log either, not bothering to stop once I identified the likely cache location. Truthfully, it's unlikely that it would have ever been in my gps in the first place.

Were I caching in a group that stopped for it, I'd enjoy the company. Not sign the log, not log the cache.

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Although a micro attached to a stop sign in a warehouse district near a busy freeway with a lot of trash around wouldn't be high on my list of "must do" caches if I was on holiday or out walking at the weekend. It may be an ideal cache if I was visiting the town for the first time on a work related trip and was visiting a business nearby, then I'd think it was an ideal cache just to get a smiley in a new town far from home. Different people like different types of cache.

 

I probably would have put something like "TFTC. Shame about the litter in the area."

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Comment on something other than the cache...

 

...It was probably a bad idea to pick rush hour for this find.

 

...Wow I never knew it could rain this hard!

 

...Battled a bad cold to try for this FTF

 

...Stubbed my toe on the walk up to this cache.

 

...Brrrrr. Cold day today - the canal was frozen over!

 

...Picked this on up on my way home from the cinema.

 

...My 10th cache in this town, completing the set.

 

...The title of this cache appealed to my sporting side, so I had to go for it.

 

...The townhouses along the nearby street are a fine example of Victorian middle-class architecture.

 

...An SUV parked nearby is exactly the shade of my carpet at home.

 

You can always find something to say, be it positive, neutral, or off-the-wall.

 

.... Sorry about my cat, I tried to get him away before he vomited on your cache. :huh:;);)

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Most urban micros never make it to my PQ, but on occasion, one sneaks in. For one like you describe, I would take one look at the location, realize there is nothing there that holds any interest for me and drive away. If, for some reason, I did decide to hunt for it, I would not log it. My logs are generally a reflection of the amount of effort/creativity utilized by the hider. The greater the effort/creativity, the longer the logs. A cache that is an utter void of creativity gets a log reflecting that. ;)

 

Don't be a crappy cache enabler! ;)

Edited by Clan Riffster
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I would thank the hider for the cache and move on.

It should be noted that the OP has NOT HIDDEN ANY CACHES....this was also the case recently regarding concern about micros......the thread starter was on their second foray into the hobby but still had no hides. It has been my experience that the most criticism comes from those with the fewest hides.

 

That aside, there are many that have no problem with the cache described here. My wife and I detest ( she won’t get out the car) high profile/ muggle intensive caches as a nano stuck to a restaurant window sill where the diners are looking at you a few feet away, yet there must be some that love these as they are plentiful........again, I may make a brief attempt but find it or not I just TFTC and move on.

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It's been my experience that cache owners generally don't appreciate it if you are honest when you don't like their hide.

You might think you are doing them, and other cachers, a favor by saying what you feel but the cache owner will probably talk crap behind your back and snub you at geocaching events if you are honest.

 

"TFTC" is my way of saying "I'm glad you like hiding caches so much that you just toss them about wherever you can. Although I generally think this type of hide sucks, I did find it and I thank you for the smiley. If you don't see me logging any more finds on your caches it's probably because I realize most of your hides are micro spew. Thanks anyhow"

I wish I could figure out who's TFTC is a complaint (like your's) and who's is their logging style. So if I see a log from bittsen with only TFTC I'd know that it was an El Stinko for them, while the log from bissten with only TFTC I'd know that they liked it, but just don't write more.

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Comment on something other than the cache...

 

...It was probably a bad idea to pick rush hour for this find.

 

...Wow I never knew it could rain this hard!

 

...Battled a bad cold to try for this FTF

 

...Stubbed my toe on the walk up to this cache.

 

...Brrrrr. Cold day today - the canal was frozen over!

 

...Picked this on up on my way home from the cinema.

 

...My 10th cache in this town, completing the set.

 

...The title of this cache appealed to my sporting side, so I had to go for it.

 

...The townhouses along the nearby street are a fine example of Victorian middle-class architecture.

 

...An SUV parked nearby is exactly the shade of my carpet at home.

 

You can always find something to say, be it positive, neutral, or off-the-wall.

 

+1 this is an excellent approach and similar to what I post.

As I already mentioned in another thread, I'll never simply type TFTC.

I knew I was going to find a few LPC/GR caches on Saturday, especially since we planned to stay out quite late.

The main goal of the day was spending it with friends, attending an event, and finding the oldest cache in the state. Everything else was gravy and entertainment.

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It's been my experience that cache owners generally don't appreciate it if you are honest when you don't like their hide.

You might think you are doing them, and other cachers, a favor by saying what you feel but the cache owner will probably talk crap behind your back and snub you at geocaching events if you are honest.

 

"TFTC" is my way of saying "I'm glad you like hiding caches so much that you just toss them about wherever you can. Although I generally think this type of hide sucks, I did find it and I thank you for the smiley. If you don't see me logging any more finds on your caches it's probably because I realize most of your hides are micro spew. Thanks anyhow"

I wish I could figure out who's TFTC is a complaint (like your's) and who's is their logging style. So if I see a log from bittsen with only TFTC I'd know that it was an El Stinko for them, while the log from bissten with only TFTC I'd know that they liked it, but just don't write more.

I was going to say the same thing. Sometimes TFTC just means "Thanks for the cache."

 

To the OP - not everyone likes the same flavor of ice cream. I don't like nuts. Once in a while someone gives me rocky road. I can tell them "No thank you, I don't like nuts", or I can eat around the nuts, or I can just eat the whole thing and even though I didn't like the nuts still be happy that someone gave me ice cream. ;)

Edited by tozainamboku
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I agree with wimseyguy. That's what I normally do when I don't feel the cache was a great experience. I'm kind of new, but I have seen some not so fun ones already. It's probably best to just keep it friendly. But if it were my cache and someone logged it but didn't expressly say the enjoyed the cache, I would suspect that they didn't overly enjoy it. As has been said already, even the coolest caches aren't going to appeal to everyone I guess.

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If people aren't honest about their experience how is the owner going to learn that there are people who didn't enjoy his cache? If he puts a cache in a feces strewn homeless encampment or next to a dumpster and gets nothing put positive logs, he'll just place more of them. If he learns that there is a significant portion of cachers who aren't thrilled with those kinds of caches, perhaps he'll raise the bar for his next hides.

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If I don't like a hide, I generally don't say anything. It was my choice to find it, and I usually had enough information going in to have at least some idea of what I was looking for. I don't remember ever feeling "zonked".

 

However, I have reported a couple of caches to my local reviewer because I felt they might be guideline violations. Two were buried caches. One had significant religious overtones (not so much on the cache page, but definitely with the hide itself). I'm not sure what else happened, but at least I said something. As a cacher, it's not my job to police the hides or enforce the guidelines, but I do feel I have something of a responsibility to tell the reviewers if I see something questionable (especially since they're not local and wouldn't see it themselves).

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It seems to me quite a few enjoy the P&G's regardless of where they're located. Sometimes folks just like to grab a quick hit off of the ol' geocaching pipe and move on. They're not looking for spectacular views, scenic hikes or head-scratching searches.

 

It may not be your thing, and that's fine, simply avoid them in the future. The wonderful thing about geocaching is that it appeals to so many people for different reasons.

 

I like Double Agents response:

 

"TFTC. Great place for a CITO"

 

personally I try to be more creative with my hides, but I DO enjoy caches in unlikey areas of town. you can look at any beautiful park and assume there is a cahce there...

Although I have never hidden a cache of this sort, I don't mind finding them now and then. I am so obsessed with this hobby that I will do it on the way to drop of papers at a clients office, or during the break at a meeting, or on my way home from wal-mart... you get the idea.

I am just about to head out for an all day hiking and caching trip, but only because I'm lucky enough to have a day off.

 

I guess what I'm saying is more the same as the above quote.

If you really think that finding these cacehs is a waste of time (don't nessisarily blame you, but it sure would be nice to have that kind of time on my hands) Simply avoid them in the future.

Google earth will quickly show you if the posted co-ords take you to an industrial park, or wal-mart parking lot.

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I've been to some very trashy, unremarkable areas looking for caches. While I did wonder what the CO saw in the locale (aside from being 528+ ft from next nearest cache) I usually log something along the lines of 'Not a particularly nice neighborhood, could use some CITO. Advise visit in daylight.' The CO should get the message.

 

There is one cache in Marina, CA, which seems to have gone missing, behind bushes at a children's park where a number of condoms were hung from trees. I think the local police need to check that out.

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I had this dillema recently appear.

The cache had no cache note, was not really hidden and had food in it. I even tried to CITO the area but it was just too dirty to get in one trip.

 

I simply mentioned in my log, "I decided not to hide the TB, because the cache is a bit exposed and I'm afraid it will be muggled."

and the rest was positive.

 

That said, I DO currently like urban micros in public places unlike many. I still get a kick out of a placement that people walk past everyday. This may fade with experience but for now I like a lot of caches many hate. especially since my gpsr hates parks

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There is one cache in Marina, CA, which seems to have gone missing, behind bushes at a children's park where a number of condoms were hung from trees. I think the local police need to check that out.

 

Apparently they have. Apparently the bomb squad CITO'ed the cache. :rolleyes:

Edited by jholly
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As Brian said: Why lie, and encourage people to hide caches in bad areas?

I'm generally a truthful, if grumpy dolphin. I'll tell you what I think. Though I have toned it down a bit...

(Someone took offense to my saying that I found the park a bit boring, and asked me not to hunt anymore of his caches..)

Found a cache yesterday. In a small park. Under a yew bush. Visible from the sidewalk along the street. I'm surprised that it's lasted a week! I suggested that hiding it better might prolong its life. (Though it does blend in with the empty water bottles...) Oh, well. What surprised me is that someone left a TB in it! I rescued the TB.

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so the cache hider learns and hopefully avoids some of these things on future caches.

 

The learning curve to "avoids some of these things" is yours, not the cache owner's. The cache owner knows where it's hidden.

 

If urban micros in industrial areas aren't enjoyable to you, try to use the website features to not hunt them.

 

 

I remember back 20 years or so when email and online forum spam started to become more common. Many suggested a passive approach similar to what you're advocating. Instead of "ignore the caches you don't like" many said, "If you don't want to read it just delete it". Twenty years later we're spending millions of dollars buying software to block spam, and who knows how much productivity lost as a result of the time spent deleting unwanted email. "Ignoring" or blocking unwanted email messages or any other electronic messages provides not deterrent whatsoever to those sending it. Ignoring a lame geocache, and even in cases where some caches might be detrimental to the game provides on deterrent to a cache owner that only sees TFTC on their caches and thinks sticking a few more film cans in a light post or slapping a nano on the back of a stop sign is a good idea. As a result spam, phishing scams, and all other sorts of nefarious messages run rampant on the internet and more and more forum time is devoted to threads about the hated micro.

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I remember back 20 years or so when email and online forum spam started to become more common. Many suggested a passive approach similar to what you're advocating.

Spam is being sent out in the hopes of generating revenue or traffic to a website. I'd like to know your business plan for making money through hiding geocaches.

 

1. Hide geocache

2. ???

3. Profit!

 

:rolleyes:

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As Brian said: Why lie, and encourage people to hide caches in bad areas?

I'm generally a truthful, if grumpy dolphin. I'll tell you what I think. Though I have toned it down a bit...

(Someone took offense to my saying that I found the park a bit boring, and asked me not to hunt anymore of his caches..)

Found a cache yesterday. In a small park. Under a yew bush. Visible from the sidewalk along the street. I'm surprised that it's lasted a week! I suggested that hiding it better might prolong its life. (Though it does blend in with the empty water bottles...) Oh, well. What surprised me is that someone left a TB in it! I rescued the TB.

 

I like different hide styles for individual days out. After a few near misses and one bad patch of poison oak I decided I wanted to try some urban areas which were free of the noxious stuff. When it's rainy I'll also tend to poke about town, rather than get completely muddy (and possibly damage soft trails.)

 

The best advice I can give on making any hide is to first consider if it's an appropriate place to bring other geocachers, if so then explore the area, first, like you are trying to find a cache and see what possibilities offer themselves up for cover.

 

I remember back 20 years or so when email and online forum spam started to become more common. Many suggested a passive approach similar to what you're advocating.

Spam is being sent out in the hopes of generating revenue or traffic to a website. I'd like to know your business plan for making money through hiding geocaches.

 

1. Hide geocache

2. ???

3. Profit!

 

:rolleyes:

 

Funny. I never seem to get to the Profit part. ;)

Edited by DragonsWest
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If I find a real stinker, even if I signed the log, I'll probably not log it at all. I have the fortune of being a PM so I can put the cache on my ignore list. If the owner ever notices, he might wonder why I signed the log and never logged on online while I did for other caches. The reason is I don't need to waste anymore of my time on the cache. The cache owner already wasted enough of it.

 

Some caches are like poking a rotting carcass: it's less a pleasure than a morbid curiosity.

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I remember back 20 years or so when email and online forum spam started to become more common. Many suggested a passive approach similar to what you're advocating.

Spam is being sent out in the hopes of generating revenue or traffic to a website. I'd like to know your business plan for making money through hiding geocaches.

 

1. Hide geocache

2. ???

3. Profit!

 

:rolleyes:

 

Spam is sent to thousands if not hundreds of thousands of email addresses at a time. As long as the sender can profit from a small fraction of those that respond they don't care how much they may inconvenience everyone else.

 

In case, I wasn't equating spam with geocaching on a business model level. The fact is, if someone places a sucky hide, and the only response they see is a "Nice hide. TFTC" they have no incentive whatsoever to place anything more interesting and may actually be olacing hides that are potentially detrimental to the game.

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