Any suggestions?

[+seadoo72]

Hi everyone I'm new to this....I can find easy benchmarks....but... I want to find this one http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=AL0480 The original landmarks are long gone (except the current road) If you look at the street view from google maps you can see the area is ok other than some trees. Other than going back to the site with a rake and metal detector dose anyone have advice for me? or am I just wasting my time with this one. Thanks

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Hi everyone I'm new to this....I can find easy benchmarks....but... I want to find this one http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=AL0480 The original landmarks are long gone (except the current road) If you look at the street view from google maps you can see the area is ok other than some trees. Other than going back to the site with a rake and metal detector dose anyone have advice for me? or am I just wasting my time with this one. Thanks

Well you have something going for you - it's a horizontal control station, meaning that the position is accurately determined. (aka it has "adjusted coordinates"). A traverse station is not as accurately determined as a triangulation station, but It's likely still much better than your GPS.

 

A GPS and a metal detector is a good set of tools to start with, but I would try to find old maps or aerial views of the area and try to see if the road has been moved or straightened since the mark was established in 1943. The tangent to the sharp curve and the old abandoned road may be your best clues.

 

Even if the old road is overgrown see if you can tell by the absence of old trees where it might have been. The GPS will get you withing 10-20 feet and from that you may be able to make out from the contours of the land where the abandoned road was. And your station is in the center of that road so you need just search out from the highway sweeping with your metal detector along the presumed path of the old road.

 

However, looking at the Google map tells me the area south and east of the station is a new development so highway (presumably Wesley Chapel Loop) may be a straightened version of the 1943 road. It aligns perfectly with the new development east-west roads, so I would be very suspicious of that. But that line of trees along the west side of the development which aligns with the north-south portion of Wesley Loop may be a property line which preexisted the development, so that might be where the old fence was.

 

And the icon on the Google map (which I would trust) may well be about 14.6 feet from that line. In fact, this street view shows where to look, probably better than your GPS - seldom do you see a picture like this. Go find it, it's right in front of that 2nd tree. :-)

 

Street view of ALO480

Edited May 19, 2010 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[+seadoo72]

Hi everyone I'm new to this....I can find easy benchmarks....but... I want to find this one http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=AL0480 The original landmarks are long gone (except the current road) If you look at the street view from google maps you can see the area is ok other than some trees. Other than going back to the site with a rake and metal detector dose anyone have advice for me? or am I just wasting my time with this one. Thanks

Well you have something going for you - it's a horizontal control station, meaning that the position is accurately determined. (aka it has "adjusted coordinates"). A traverse station is not as accurately determined as a triangulation station, but It's likely still much better than your GPS.

 

A GPS and a metal detector is a good set of tools to start with, but I would try to find old maps or aerial views of the area and try to see if the road has been moved or straightened since the mark was established in 1943. The tangent to the sharp curve and the old abandoned road may be your best clues.

 

Even if the old road is overgrown see if you can tell by the absense of old trees where it might have been. The GPS will get you withing 10-20 feet and from that you may be able to make out from the contours of the land where the abandoned road was. And your station is in the center of that road so you need just search out from the highway sweeping with your metal detector along the presumed path of the old road.

 

Then search and probe and dig.

 

Thanks for the tips... I'll look up a old map of the area from USF's database and go from there...

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Hi everyone I'm new to this....I can find easy benchmarks....but... I want to find this one http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=AL0480 The original landmarks are long gone (except the current road) If you look at the street view from google maps you can see the area is ok other than some trees. Other than going back to the site with a rake and metal detector dose anyone have advice for me? or am I just wasting my time with this one. Thanks

Well you have something going for you - it's a horizontal control station, meaning that the position is accurately determined. (aka it has "adjusted coordinates"). A traverse station is not as accurately determined as a triangulation station, but It's likely still much better than your GPS.

 

A GPS and a metal detector is a good set of tools to start with, but I would try to find old maps or aerial views of the area and try to see if the road has been moved or straightened since the mark was established in 1943. The tangent to the sharp curve and the old abandoned road may be your best clues.

 

Even if the old road is overgrown see if you can tell by the absense of old trees where it might have been. The GPS will get you withing 10-20 feet and from that you may be able to make out from the contours of the land where the abandoned road was. And your station is in the center of that road so you need just search out from the highway sweeping with your metal detector along the presumed path of the old road.

 

Then search and probe and dig.

 

Thanks for the tips... I'll look up a old map of the area from USF's database and go from there...

 

See my last note added to the bottom of my post.

[+seadoo72]

Look what I found(1941 map): http://ufdcweb1.uflib.ufl.edu/ufdc/?a=flap...amp;vp=1318,816

 

I can now see the abandoned road they were talking about... This might work!

Edited May 19, 2010 by seadoo72

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Look what I found(1941 map): http://ufdcweb1.uflib.ufl.edu/ufdc/?a=flap...amp;vp=1318,816

 

I can now see the abandoned road they were talking about... This might work!

Nice one. And there looks like a line scribed along the south edge of the east-west portion which is your tangent. And that road looks very crisp as if it were just built. Maybe those traverse stations A, B and C were for the road survey.

 

That photo plus the street view I linked to should make your life easy.

 

OTOH, that photo shows a fairly rough undeveloped area with a few little ponds or depressions, whereas now you have trees and a nice lawn, so don't get your hopes too high. Looks like a bulldozer or two have been over that land. If you're lucky they may have just buried it.

[+Holtie22]

Looking at the box score on the NGS Datasheet:

 

AL0480|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

AL0480| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az |

AL0480| dddmmss.s |

AL0480| AL0489 A 1943 APPROX. 0.7 KM 0892831.5 |

AL0480| CW6724 B RM 2 36.208 METERS 34400 |

AL0480| CW6723 B RM 1 23.430 METERS 34400 |

AL0480| AL0483 C 409.387 METERS 3594258.9 |

AL0480|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

There are a couple reference marks located NNW of the station that might help you find it. They seem to be under the trees, so it is possible they are intact. There is also another station nearby: AL0489

It should be intervisible along the center of the road to the north.

[+seadoo72]

If you move the street viewer east a few clicks I can almost see a hole in the trees.... with the Surface disk in the middle.... Hopefully I can go back soon.....I think I was too far north my last visit.

Edited May 19, 2010 by seadoo72

[+seadoo72]

Looking at the box score on the NGS Datasheet:

 

AL0480|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

AL0480| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az |

AL0480| dddmmss.s |

AL0480| AL0489 A 1943 APPROX. 0.7 KM 0892831.5 |

AL0480| CW6724 B RM 2 36.208 METERS 34400 |

AL0480| CW6723 B RM 1 23.430 METERS 34400 |

AL0480| AL0483 C 409.387 METERS 3594258.9 |

AL0480|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

There are a couple reference marks located NNW of the station that might help you find it. They seem to be under the trees, so it is possible they are intact. There is also another station nearby: AL0489

It should be intervisible along the center of the road to the north.

 

Thanks Holtie22 I saw the reference marks from the NGS data sheet as well... I just don't know what direction to go to find them...I guess it would be easier once I find AL0489 first.... Say, do you guys want to come down to sunny FL to help me find this thing

[Bill93]

Link to the NGS data sheet for AL0480

 

In the "box score" the numbers 34400 are 344 degrees and 00 minutes azimuth, where 0 or 360 is true (not magnetic) north. If you use a compass, you need to find the current magnetic declination for your area and correct the compass reading to true direction.

 

I doubt it is still there, but, look for a pine tree more than 60 years old and has a scar from where it was blazed (bark cut), facing the likely location of the disk and perhaps chest high.

 

Does anybody have an idea why the box score and the 1943 description have a different distance for RM1?

[+seadoo72]

Check out the 1951 era Map looks like they cut down some trees -- since 1941 you can see the old abandoned road better...The question is what part of the old road is it on? the SW to NE section or the E-W road to the west of the SW to NE section?

 

http://ufdcweb1.uflib.ufl.edu/ufdc/?a=flap...amp;vp=3596,528

 

And some Orange tree farming SE of the Benchmark in 1957 http://ufdcweb1.uflib.ufl.edu/ufdc/?a=flap...3&vp=0,3430

Edited May 19, 2010 by seadoo72

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

Check out the 1951 era Map looks like they cut down some trees -- since 1941 you can see the old abandoned road better...The question is what part of the old road is it on? the SW to NE section or the E-W road to the west of the SW to NE section?

 

http://ufdcweb1.uflib.ufl.edu/ufdc/?a=flap...amp;vp=3596,528

 

I would say there is an abandoned road in the 1941 photo that meanders basically southward, but in the 1951 photo it curves slightly to the west and then disappears in what may be a cultivated field to the south of the main road. The straight line heading west in the 1951 photo may be a property fence line rather that a road. There's an indication of that in the 1941 photo as well.

 

I suggest you use the position given in the Google map and look for the mark in those current day trees shown in the street view. This is probably close to where the east west tangent crosses the old road. Note that the first portion of that old road is roughly the same in both photos. You could also try to use the direction "70 feet from the center line of the highway" where I would say that would be from about the middle of the curve in the road. I assume that's almost exactly the line used in the street view, but it gives one more cross check since the error in the street view of the distance along the line of site is probably greater than in the bearing of the line of site.

 

Here's the 1951 photo where I put a little red circle to show what I mean:

 

Edited May 19, 2010 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[+seadoo72]

Well I went back out to the site and spent 30min looking around with my metal detector and all I found was beer cans Too many false hits to use a detector in that area... Not to mention the vines kept tangling around my metal detector. I think I'll write this one off. Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.