US NATIONAL GRID

[+PSJ166496]

I wish to advise all GPS users that in the USA a standard coordinate system exists and is being implemented by multiple states, emergency services and the federal government too. It is US NATIONAL GRID and its origins are with UTM. In my opinion, once all options are understood, USNG it is easier to teach, learn and use. We all should be using it or a least have it as a dual display with other preferences. USNG is functionally the same as the military/NATO system Military Grid Reference System (MGRS) developed ~1947 and found in my original Garmin GPS 12. Request-> Please ADD MGRS/USNG to the available coordinate systems displayed on geocaching.com

 

=======================================

Example: Plainview, Kansas. The coordinate of the major intersection there in USNG = 14S MJ 74257 43176. UTM for that same location is: 14S, 474257, 4343176. if you inspect closely from right to left, the first 5 digits are identical. In UTM the 100 Km IDs are numeric. In MGRS/USNG the 100 KM IDs are letters. This results in multiple advantages.

 

USNG: 14S MJ 74257 43176

UTM (zone,x,y): 14S, 474257, 4343176

D-M.m: 39-14.250N, 99-17.898W

D-M-S: 39-14-15.02N, 99-17-53.87W

D.d: 39.23751, -99.2983

=======================================

 

An internet search of US National Grid, USNG or USNG Florida, USNG MN will yield much information for review.

Training files are available here: http://www.floridadisasterengineers.org/library.html

 

When earthquakes hit Haiti and Chile, the maps made for responders were MGRS. MGRS would be considered the worldwide version. USNG is specific to the USA. However, they are functionally identical. Examples of that are here: http://www.floridadisasterengineers.org/li...html#Haiti_Maps

 

Why am I advising all this to GPS users? The answer is simple; STANDARDIZATION. When a problem occurs, and coordinates are needed, there is to be one standard for land-based operations, USNG (for USA). Lat/Long has a long aeronautical & maritime history to be sure. And since it is so prevalent, it is obvious it will still be used. However, did you know that only one of three versions is the preferred standard? it is DD-MM.mmm (Example: 39-14.250N, 99-17.898W) See pages 64-71 of this document: http://www.floridadisasterengineers.org/US...2908)Signed.pdf

 

Additional information, after your initial research, can requested at: USNG08@gmail.com

 

Regards,

 

Al

USNG Advocate & Instructor

27 years of fire service (deployed to Florida City, Hurricane Andrew)

6 years of urban search & rescue service (deployed to Mississippi, Hurricane Katrina)

[namiboy]

thanks!

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Not a Getting Started issue.

 

Moving to the GPS and Technology forum although I'm not 100% sure that this even pertains to Geocaching since this in not the standard used by the site.

[+ecanderson]

"In my opinion, once all options are understood, USNG it is easier to teach, learn and use."

 

Oh yes. MUCH easier to use than a simple "this much north, this much west" that pertains to the entire country. Not. Nothing like having the wheel reinvented...again. Perverse.

[+splashy]

So? What is the real point? We have Gps'es for this and when looking at a map see the format first.

Remember the metric system, you seem to use it, but most people in the Us don't.

Do you really think the military will switch? The system you KNOW is the best system for YOU.

And with a crisis in my head, I'm against globalisation / normalisation of anything, it just doesn't work right in the end.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I wish to advise all GPS users that in the USA a standard coordinate system exists and is being implemented

All GPS users?

 

That's a big help to those of us here in the UK, where we have our own system OSGB (Ordnance Survey Great Britain).

Think I'll stick with the Lat/Long used by Geocaching, thank you!

[Forkeye]

I've been using MGRS since 1971,when I was first in the Canadian military,its simple ,use it with a compass with a romer on it ,you have an easting and a northing and you can find your location an a paper map real fast,each square on the map is 1 km on a 1:50000 scale map.I dont see why it needs to be called something different.Does that mean Americans are going to learn some metric finally?

Edited May 15, 2010 by Forkeye

[+PSJ166496]

Moderator: OK, whatever you deem proper. This was posted at the request of Groundspeak customer support. It is a request to ADD another (not new) format to those found on Geocaching.com. British grid is one that is there now; for the USA I request USNG. However, a worldwide option is MGRS.

 

Others: Yes, it is metric based and being used in the USA. If a standard developed in 2001 by a citizens committee which is at a high-level is essentially a re-naming of a US Military / NATO system used since 1947 is ¨re-inventing the wheel¨ then so be it. The advantages are many. They include, but are not limited to familiarity & interoperability with past, present & future military personnel, truncation from the left and from the right for trained users, etc. In an emergency response scenario, simply adding 4 or 6 characters to a street address defines that location to nearest 1 km or 100 meter square area. (Example: 123 Main Street, grid 23 67, or 123 Main Street grid 235 571) They would not need the full coordinate typically. If responding across the state, a full coordinate is used. As we all know, the street addressing paradigm FAILS for any off pavement / wilderness event. Who might be on-site helping? A geocacher. This is how this relates to geocaching; people with GPS need to know about this standard, And, as one who has done some geocaching; I would like to be able to use the coordinate system of my choice; especially in the USA and/or Florida where that is the preferred system. See this link: http://www.myfloridacfo.com/sfm/USNatGrid.htm Again, worldwide, the same system is MGRS, found in my original GPS 12 from 10+ years ago.

 

This is about increased awareness. I have a dual display Delorme PN-20 with USNG and Lat/Long (DD-MM.mmm). If some want to disregard all this; fine. I know others appreciate it and again I request an addition of the discussed format to the geocaching.com website.

 

Regards.

Edited May 15, 2010 by PSJ166496

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Ok.

 

Then the correct place to post it would have been the Geocaching.com web site forum instead of the Getting Started forum section and posted as a "Feature Request" for the site. That way the system developers would have seen it.

 

I am not a moderator in this forum section, so if you would like your post to be moved to the Website forum, use the "Report" button and ask the moderator to move it to that section.

[+Cardinal Red]

This is about increased awareness.

Fine. My awareness is increased.

 

I request an addition of the discussed format to the geocaching.com website.

Why? I will never use USNG to search for a cache, which is the only reason I use this site.

 

If I have an emergency situation, and reach someone who will only respond if I can provide USNG coords, I can switch my GPS units on the spot. We don't need this on this website.

[+ecanderson]

I'm sorry, dude, but having to remember whether the grid starts up again from right to left between number 278 and 279 is just a PITA. For nearly all purposes, ANY system that requires memorization of grid locations due to a "non-adjacent" numbering is far more work than it's worth when you can use a simple lat/long system instead. I know for certain that N40 is just a skosh north of N39.5. I have no clue which grid segment is just above #278. Any grid system of this nature requires use of a map or long experience with the system in use. It is much easier to get a feel for a simple latitude/longitude system when discussing location.

 

Here's the grid system referenced for Haiti. Who really wants to work with that if there's an easy option?!?

 

http://www.captaingregsillustrations.com/U...as_overview.pdf

Edited May 15, 2010 by ecanderson

[+39chevy]

I wish to advise all GPS users that in the USA a standard coordinate system exists and is being implemented by multiple states, emergency services and the federal government too. It is US NATIONAL GRID and its origins are with UTM. In my opinion, once all options are understood, USNG it is easier to teach, learn and use. We all should be using it or a least have it as a dual display with other preferences. USNG is functionally the same as the military/NATO system Military Grid Reference System (MGRS) developed ~1947 and found in my original Garmin GPS 12. Request-> Please ADD MGRS/USNG to the available coordinate systems displayed on geocaching.com

 

=======================================

Example: Plainview, Kansas. The coordinate of the major intersection there in USNG = 14S MJ 74257 43176. UTM for that same location is: 14S, 474257, 4343176. if you inspect closely from right to left, the first 5 digits are identical. In UTM the 100 Km IDs are numeric. In MGRS/USNG the 100 KM IDs are letters. This results in multiple advantages.

 

USNG: 14S MJ 74257 43176

UTM (zone,x,y): 14S, 474257, 4343176

D-M.m: 39-14.250N, 99-17.898W

D-M-S: 39-14-15.02N, 99-17-53.87W

D.d: 39.23751, -99.2983

=======================================

 

An internet search of US National Grid, USNG or USNG Florida, USNG MN will yield much information for review.

Training files are available here: http://www.floridadisasterengineers.org/library.html

 

When earthquakes hit Haiti and Chile, the maps made for responders were MGRS. MGRS would be considered the worldwide version. USNG is specific to the USA. However, they are functionally identical. Examples of that are here: http://www.floridadisasterengineers.org/li...html#Haiti_Maps

 

Why am I advising all this to GPS users? The answer is simple; STANDARDIZATION. When a problem occurs, and coordinates are needed, there is to be one standard for land-based operations, USNG (for USA). Lat/Long has a long aeronautical & maritime history to be sure. And since it is so prevalent, it is obvious it will still be used. However, did you know that only one of three versions is the preferred standard? it is DD-MM.mmm (Example: 39-14.250N, 99-17.898W) See pages 64-71 of this document: http://www.floridadisasterengineers.org/US...2908)Signed.pdf

 

Additional information, after your initial research, can requested at: USNG08@gmail.com

 

Regards,

 

Al

USNG Advocate & Instructor

27 years of fire service (deployed to Florida City, Hurricane Andrew)

6 years of urban search & rescue service (deployed to Mississippi, Hurricane Katrina)

 

And this will help me find a Bison Tube in a Pine tree ???

I don't think so.

[+fizzymagic]

In my opinion, once all options are understood, USNG it is easier to teach, learn and use.

I disagree.

 

Patching a rectilinear coordinate system onto a sphere doesn't work well. For the case of the USNG, you have to teach people that "northing" doesn't mean going north, and "easting" doesn't mean going east. That's very confusing to most people. The fact that you can't just use your compass to get a bearing, but have to correct for local grid direction means it is more complicated to do projections and other geodesy. The only thing that the USNG coordinate system makes easy is calculating approximate distances.

 

A spherical coordinate system is the natural one to use for the surface of the Earth, which is why it is the accepted standard for GPS. trying to patch together rectilinear coordinate systems is a hack, and not a particularly good one at that.

 

Here's a quick thought question for you. What direction do you go to get from your example point, 14S MJ 74257 43176, to 15S TD 45133 43176?

Here's a hint: notice that those last numbers are the same.

 

Got your answer? I'll bet you that you either converted to lat/lon or it's wrong. If you aimed your gun using MGRS, you missed by about 3/4 of a mile.

 

And what's with the minus signs in the lat-lon display? What brain-dead government bureaucrat came up with that idea? I thought USGS and NOAA/NGS had at least some people who understood geodesy.

Edited May 16, 2010 by fizzymagic

[+Chrysalides]

I started to post a reply when the topic first came up, but couldn't decide if my dislike of USNG is due to legitimate reasons or if I'm just resistant to change. I did read up on USNG, and about the only reason I could see why some people might prefer it, is that it allows you to go left to right on the map as numbers increase, which one site claims as "more intuitive". Perhaps, but not a good enough reason.

 

If UTM exists, and is essentially the same thing, why would some government agency, in their infinite wisdom, wishing to standardize, come up with a new system? That's the part that amazed me.

 

Geocaching is a worldwide activity. I feel that national grids don't have much of a place in it. Sure, they exist, and we should know about it, but the language of location should be in longitude and latitude, which, by the way, I feel is intuitive to anyone who does not subscribe to a flat earth model.

[+coggins]

Here's the grid system referenced for Haiti. Who really wants to work with that if there's an easy option?!?

 

http://www.captaingregsillustrations.com/U...as_overview.pdf

FYI: those numbers (278/279/etc...) are the page numbers from the atlas, all are on grid 18Q YF as per the map collar. Here is an example of Page 207 from the atlas. Edited May 16, 2010 by coggins

[+Whistlen]

I fully understand that Al is trying to educate the caching world here but I don't think that he'll have many converts. I have been trained on USNG and actually like it. As a Communications Unit Leader (COM-L), I know that USNG will be a standard I will see at any incident that FEMA or other Federal agencies are involved in. It does work well because it is a system based on flat maps vs. lat/long based on a globe.

 

So learn something new and check it out. We all know and understand that USNG won't become the standard for geocaching so don't think we're trying to force it on ya!

[+fizzymagic]

It does work well because it is a system based on flat maps vs. lat/long based on a globe.

Kinda inconvenient that the Earth is, you know, actually, like, a globe, then, isn't it?

[+ecanderson]

FYI: those numbers (278/279/etc...) are the page numbers from the atlas, all are on grid 18Q YF as per the map collar. Here is an example of Page 207 from the atlas.

Thank heavens. That link pointed to something that looked like a total train wreck of a grid system for Haiti. Thanks for your link that covered what was "under the cover". Wonder where the rest went on the other link?

 

So essentially what we've got here is another grid coordinate twist on the old Mercator projection with all of the problems that maps of that sort present?

[+fizzymagic]

So essentially what we've got here is another grid coordinate twist on the old Mercator projection with all of the problems that maps of that sort present?

Basically, yes. The thing that makes MGRS even worse than UTM is that it replaces some of the numbers with hard-to-interpret letters for no apparent reason.

 

MGRS was adopted in the 1950s for use with paper maps. It has many, many problems, which have only become more apparent with the advent of GPS systems.

 

The OP appears to believe that it is easier to tell that 12T VL 24397 12934 is northwest of 12T WK 43532 35614 than it is to tell that N 40 45.834, W 111 53.745 is northwest of N 40 04.180, W 110 29.370.

 

Me, I think that's nuts.

[+dakboy]

If UTM exists, and is essentially the same thing, why would some government agency, in their infinite wisdom, wishing to standardize, come up with a new system? That's the part that amazed me.

Because the US Government has always had a nasty case of Not Invented Here syndrome.

[Forkeye]

If UTM exists, and is essentially the same thing, why would some government agency, in their infinite wisdom, wishing to standardize, come up with a new system? That's the part that amazed me.

Because the US Government has always had a nasty case of Not Invented Here syndrome.

I dont think anybody would disagree with that remark.Now they can tell the world they have a better system just by changing the name if nothing else.

[+PSJ166496]

Folks; as someone else stated, we are not forcing this on you. I asked for it to be added so I can use it and so others MAY use it if they desire. That would include all of my students who may be geocachers. As USNG expands; it will be a lot people. geocaching.com already has British grid, USNG is logical for the USA. Worldwide, it is MGRS. It is not new. Everyone has opinions; mine are based upon teaching students who never used a grid at all. It is x-y, right-then up. There is also a part of this you all may never deal with as geocachers - saying coordinates over the radio. For ground-based operations, USNG beats all others in less complexity or errors, in my opinion. As you should now, Lat/Long has (3) versions....problematic saying & copying them over a radio for the novice user. Sure, lots of you have done it for a lifetime - I understand. The combined benefits in multiple areas is why the committee of citizens selected USNG. I point hat out because the origin is NOT with the government telling people, it actually was the people telling the government. It was called the X-Y Project, circa 1999. http://allthingsgeography.blogspot.com/200...ional-grid.html Here we are 11 years later. USNG is mandated for use in the state of Florida. Read this document, Appendix I, page 102. : http://www.ffca.org/files/public/FFCA_SERP2010_FINAL4.pdf and the other internal references. See what Minnesota is doing: http://www.gis.state.mn.us/committee/empre...USNG/index.html These are states taking action, regardless of the feds. The feds came on later.

 

Regards

[+Chrysalides]

I typed another lengthy response but decided it is pointless to debate about the merits of a system that is not targeted at me. Rather, I have a technical question, and a genuine one - I followed a few links and I'm unable to find the answer.

 

What is the mapping from UTM to USNG?

[+Cardinal Red]

Folks; as someone else stated, we are not forcing this on you. I asked for it to be added so I can use it and so others MAY use it if they desire. That would include all of my students who may be geocachers. As USNG expands; it will be a lot people. geocaching.com already has British grid, USNG is logical for the USA. Worldwide, it is MGRS. It is not new. Everyone has opinions; mine are based upon teaching students who never used a grid at all. It is x-y, right-then up. There is also a part of this you all may never deal with as geocachers - saying coordinates over the radio. For ground-based operations, USNG beats all others in less complexity or errors, in my opinion. As you should now, Lat/Long has (3) versions....problematic saying & copying them over a radio for the novice user. Sure, lots of you have done it for a lifetime - I understand. The combined benefits in multiple areas is why the committee of citizens selected USNG. I point hat out because the origin is NOT with the government telling people, it actually was the people telling the government. It was called the X-Y Project, circa 1999. http://allthingsgeography.blogspot.com/200...ional-grid.html Here we are 11 years later. USNG is mandated for use in the state of Florida. Read this document, Appendix I, page 102. : http://www.ffca.org/files/public/FFCA_SERP2010_FINAL4.pdf and the other internal references. See what Minnesota is doing: http://www.gis.state.mn.us/committee/empre...USNG/index.html These are states taking action, regardless of the feds. The feds came on later.

 

Regards

You have a fondness for USNG that the vast majority of US cachers will never have. We don't care what committee, state, or government thinks it's wonderful. But if you ran Groundspeak, explain how the addition of USNG would benefit you and affect me. You want the USNG text placed between the HDDMM.mmm and UTM on US caches? Or you want it to replace the UTM? Just the statement "I asked for it to be added so I can use it and so others MAY use it if they desire" is vague. When I download a cache from the site to my GPS, I can pick any number of display formats on my GPS. Including USNG. Why can't your students do the same thing? What more do you need? Not want, need.

 

And the British grid argument isn't fair over here. They love the grid. We don't, with the exception of some military trained members. And in those rare occasions where I do find the UTM grid useful, I just convert. It's simple for me and doesn't affect anyone else.

[+PSJ166496]

I typed another lengthy response but decided it is pointless to debate about the merits of a system that is not targeted at me. Rather, I have a technical question, and a genuine one - I followed a few links and I'm unable to find the answer.

 

What is the mapping from UTM to USNG?

 

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_grid_reference_system

 

100,000-meter square identification

 

The second part of an MGRS coordinate is the 100,000-meter square identification. Each UTM zone is divided into 100,000 meter squares, so that their corners have UTM-coordinates that are multiples of 100,000 meters. The identification consists of a column letter (A–Z, omitting I and O) followed by a row letter (A–V, omitting I and O).

 

Near the equator, the columns of UTM zone 1 have the letters A–H, the columns of UTM zone 2 have the letters J–R (omitting O), and the columns of UTM zone 3 have the letters S–Z. At zone 4, the column letters start over from A, and so on around the world.

 

For the row letters, there are actually two alternative lettering schemes within MGRS:

 

* In the AA scheme,[2] also known as MGRS-New,[3] which is used for WGS84 and some other modern geodetic datums, the letter for the first row – just north of the equator – is A in odd-numbered zones, and F in even-numbered zones, as shown in figure 1. Note that the westmost square in this row, in zone 1, has identification AA.

* In the alternative AL scheme,[2] also known as MGRS-Old,[3] which is used for some older geodetic datums, the row letters are shifted 10 steps in the alphabet. This means that the letter for the first row is L in odd-numbered zones and R in even-numbered zones. The westmost square in the first row, in zone 1, has identification AL.

 

If an MGRS coordinate is complete (with both a grid zone designation and a 100,000 meter square identification), and is valid in one lettering scheme, then it is usually invalid in the other scheme, which will have no such 100,000 meter square in the grid zone. (Latitude band X is the exception to this rule.) Therefore, a position reported in a modern datum usually can not be misunderstood as using an old datum, and vice versa – provided the datums use different MGRS lettering schemes.

 

In the map (figure 1), which uses the AA scheme, we see that Honolulu is in grid zone 4Q, and square FJ. To give the position of Honolulu with 100 km resolution, we write 4QFJ.

[+PSJ166496]

Cardinal Red: Answer: for novices. I did geocaching and did not download. Surely first time or infrequent users are not downloading. I used the UTM coordinates on geocaching.com, converted manually to USNG and used one of multiple USNG web tools to display the location. But I knew that 5-31 = NM. Many others would not know how to convert the 100 Km ID. I entered the coordinate into my GPS manually. Add means in addition to existing. I never said replace, ever. Think outside the box. There is no harm here.

[+Cardinal Red]

Cardinal Red: Answer: for novices. I did geocaching and did not download. Surely first time or infrequent users are not downloading. I used the UTM coordinates on geocaching.com, converted manually to USNG and used one of multiple USNG web tools to display the location. But I knew that 5-31 = NM. Many others would not know how to convert the 100 Km ID. I entered the coordinate into my GPS manually. Add means in addition to existing. I never said replace, ever. Think outside the box. There is no harm here.

Ok. I am a novice. You are my teacher, so Lat/Long is bad. I change my GPS units to UTM. I enter and save UTM manually. I convert my GPS to USNG. I now have USNG in my display without having to know how to convert squat. Problem solved? Hint: That same strategy will also work with Lat/Long (with a possible fudge factor of one unit difference on the last digit during conversion).

 

But the extent of your request is USNG text on US cache pages so you can enter it manually?

[Forkeye]

Hey ,dont forget that in the military when we use MGRS we also use the phonetic alphabet too when we speak about co-ordinates,niner,bravo, charlie ,echo,etc.,oh my that is really going to p.o. people,we are talkin a whole new language now. its just way too much too soon.Slow down change takes time.

[+coggins]

Request-> Please ADD MGRS/USNG to the available coordinate systems displayed on geocaching.com

Additional information, after your initial research, can requested at: USNG08@gmail.com

 

Regards,

 

Al

USNG Advocate & Instructor

27 years of fire service (deployed to Florida City, Hurricane Andrew)

6 years of urban search & rescue service (deployed to Mississippi, Hurricane Katrina)

Al, a request of this type should be posted here in the "Geocaching.com Web Site" forum:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showforum=8

 

You should start a new thread there, and let this thread stand to give the tech minded group the opportunity to debate the merits, strengths and weaknesses as is the way here in the "GPS and Technology" forum.

 

I see that you have logged one geocache find, and this is your first thread started and was your second post so as a "newbie" you you might have thought that the "Getting Stated" forum was where you needed to be.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your years of service.

[+Whistlen]

...and that was the welcome wagon rolling though!

[+Entropy512]

Last I checked, the default on the site was WGS84, a worldwide standard.

 

I see no reason to add a rather contrived "national" standard which doesn't even seem to be the standard used by most government agencies (USGS maps have UTM markings...) when the default is a well established world standard.

 

While gc.com is at it, clearly they need to add New York State Plane East/Central/West coordinates, as they are a standard in New York State.

[+39chevy]

Since i don't plan on calling in artillery fire on any caches (tho it would be tempting at times), i see no benefit in this system.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

......Does that mean Americans are going to learn some metric finally?

Thanks, very insightful.

Certainly, quite pertinent to the subject matter as introduced by the OP.

Now that I have added that to my to do list, can you offer me another suggestion?

[Forkeye]

Since i don't plan on calling in artillery fire on any caches (tho it would be tempting at times), i see no benefit in this system.

Thats funny,I was going to mention calling a fire mission,and that I have never heard of one being called in Lat.& Long.,anyway once you enter the Lat.&lLong. on the geocache web site into your gps you can change it to any format ,just by selecting that format.It really makes no differance which format most people use to find their caches anyway since most just follow either the compass or the map screen.The benefits of MGRS cannot be fully seen by just geocaching with a gps.It just causes frustration to force technology on those that are not interested in it,anyone who is interested will always explore and discover all that tech. stuff on their own anyway .

Edited May 17, 2010 by Forkeye

[+tozainamboku]

A grid system might be good for certain military and humanitarian logistical operations. If the various organizations standardize their maps then perhaps a compact way to give a location over the phone or in a text message could save time and reduce errors.

 

As far as geocaching is concerned I don't see it as having the same issues as a large military/humanitarian supply effort. Sure we might save time and reduce errors giving out cache coordinates using some compact code that is less prone to error or misinterpretation. However, I just get my PQ and load it into my GPS. Unless there is a puzzle or multi cache of some sort, I don't ever look at coordinated and couldn't care less if they were in USNG/MGRS, UTM, any particular lat/lon format, or anything else. I just look at my GPS to tell me the distance and direction to the cache. Internally, I'm pretty sure the GPSr is using some form of lat/long simply because as fizzymagic has pointed out, in this form it can easily compute the bearing and distance accurately.

 

Right now Grounspeak provides cache locations in lat/lon degrees/minutes and WGS-84 datum. It provides UTM coordinates as a covenience for those using paper maps that use that projection. It provides national grids for some countries - at least for the UK. Should USNG become popular enough and enough maps are avaialble using this grid they may be some demand in the future for it.

 

Additional formats aren't really needed for Geocaching. Most handheld GPS units already can do the conversion to a variety of national grids as well as being able to do datum conversions. I can't see any pressing need for Groundspeak to provide this.

[Forkeye]

I just dont understand why some people feel so threatend by having another set of co-ordinates posted,just pick the one you want ,its not like someone wanted a list of them ya might just learn something.

[Motorcycle_Mama]

It's not about being threatened.

 

It's about whether or not 1) the community feels that it is necessary to be added to the Geocaching.com, 2) whether it would add to (or detract from) the geocaching experience of user, and 3) whether they feel that Groundspeak should spend resources on implementing a feature such as this.

[Keystone]

Since the OP has re-posted the same thread in the Geocaching.com Web Site forum, I am closing this one. Please don't start duplicate threads.