PID for an RM but no station ???

[+patw]

I often find RM's listed in the NGS data sheets with an independent PID but there is no station referred to in the description. Nor is there a PID for a station listed in a separate listing. Sometimes these RM's will have the expected arrow engraved on them and occasionallly even have a triangle but with no text accounting for a reset, destroyed station, or redesignation of the RM as the station. None of them provide a bearing and distance to some original station.

Now, why is that?

 

patrick & shirley

[+rogbarn]

Could it be that the original main point is listed as destroyed and therefore not showing in geocaching? The fact that the reference mark has it's own PID indicates to me that this might be the case. Do a search on the NGS site centered on the reference mark and see if anything shows up.

[Z15]

I would bet the station was destroyed when they were doing survey and they used the RM as the new station. I have seen this before. To know why you would need to find the person in charge and ask them. Hard to know thier motives today.

 

But like I said, I have seen it before. We have used RM's and Azi's as new control stations using GPS. The monument is there, why not use it if you can.

 

Here one with the reason the used a RM as the new station.

 

quote:

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The NGS Data SheetSee file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet.DATABASE = Sybase ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 6.73

1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = MARCH 26, 2003

RK0500 ***********************************************************************

RK0500 DESIGNATION - SKANDIA

RK0500 PID - RK0500

RK0500 STATE/COUNTY- MI/MARQUETTE

RK0500 USGS QUAD - CARLSHEND (1985)

RK0500

RK0500 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL

RK0500 ___________________________________________________________________

RK0500* NAD 83(1994)- 46 21 12.62050(N) 087 13 12.99273(W) ADJUSTED

RK0500* NAVD 88 - 337. (meters) 1106. (feet) SCALED

RK0500 ___________________________________________________________________

RK0500 LAPLACE CORR- -3.09 (seconds) DEFLEC99

RK0500 GEOID HEIGHT- -34.65 (meters) GEOID99

RK0500

RK0500 HORZ ORDER - FIRST

RK0500

RK0500.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods

RK0500.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in February 1997.

RK0500

RK0500.The orthometric height was scaled from a topographic map.

RK0500

RK0500.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC99 derived deflections.

RK0500

RK0500.The geoid height was determined by GEOID99.

RK0500

RK0500; North East Units Scale Converg.

RK0500;SPC MI N - 174,539.013 7,983,047.362 MT 0.99990354 -0 09 33.2

RK0500;UTM 16 - 5,133,349.193 483,052.488 MT 0.99960353 -0 09 33.8

RK0500

RK0500: Primary Azimuth Mark Grid Az

RK0500:SPC MI N - GWINN 249 35 04.7

RK0500:UTM 16 - GWINN 249 35 05.3

RK0500

RK0500|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

RK0500| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az |

RK0500| dddmmss.s |

RK0500| RK0502 DUKES LOOKOUT TOWER APPROX. 7.1 KM 0950955.3 |

RK0500| RK0503 SKANDIA RM 3 1975 6.470 METERS 14558 |

RK0500| CJ2784 SKANDIA AZ MK 1672556.3 |

RK0500| CJ2785 SKANDIA RM 1 39.176 METERS 18632 |

RK0500| RK0523 FORSYTH BELL TEL CO MICROWAVE APPROX. 8.6 KM 2331407.1 |

RK0500| RK0534 GWINN APPROX.21.9 KM 2492531.5 |

RK0500| RK0499 SKANDIA 1955 RM 2 9.832 METERS 28350 |

RK0500| RK0544 SUMMIT MTN TV STA WLUC MAST APPROX.33.3 KM 2884949.6 |

RK0500| RK0484 PRESQUE ISLE HBR BREAKWATER LT APPROX.27.2 KM 3341532.3 |

RK0500|---------------------------------------------------------------------|

RK0500

RK0500 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL

RK0500

RK0500 NAD 83(1986)- 46 21 12.61510(N) 087 13 12.99052(W) AD( ) 1

RK0500 NAD 27 - 46 21 12.82300(N) 087 13 12.47400(W) AD( ) 1

RK0500

RK0500.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control.

RK0500.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums.

RK0500.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived.

RK0500

RK0500_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16TDS8305233349(NAD 83)

RK0500_MARKER: DS = TRIANGULATION STATION DISK

RK0500_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT

RK0500_STAMPING: SKANDIA 1955

RK0500_MARK LOGO: CGS

RK0500_MAGNETIC: N = NO MAGNETIC MATERIAL

RK0500_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO

RK0500+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION

RK0500_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS NOT SUITABLE FOR

RK0500+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - May 25, 2000

RK0500

RK0500 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

RK0500 HISTORY - 1955 MONUMENTED CGS

RK0500 HISTORY - 1961 GOOD CGS

RK0500 HISTORY - 1975 GOOD NGS

RK0500 HISTORY - 19920929 GOOD USPSQD

RK0500 HISTORY - 19950207 GOOD LOCENG

RK0500 HISTORY - 20000525 GOOD MIDT

RK0500

RK0500 STATION DESCRIPTION

RK0500

RK0500'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1955 (NET)

RK0500'THE STATION IS IN SECTION 29, T. 46 N., R. 23 W., ON THE WESTERN SIDE

RK0500'OF THE U. S. FOREST SERVICE EXPERIMENTAL AREA AND ON GOVERNMENT

RK0500'PROPERTY. IT IS 7 MILES NORTHEAST OF LITTLE LAKE, 2 MILES

RK0500'SOUTHEAST OF SKANDIA AND 100 FEET EAST OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41.

RK0500'

RK0500'TO REACH FROM SKANDIA, GO SOUTHEASTERLY ON U. S. HIGHWAY 41 FOR 2.0

RK0500'MILES TO THE SKANDIA LOOKOUT TOWER ON THE LEFT AND THE STATION ON

RK0500'THE LEFT APPROXIMATELY 20 FEET ABOVE THE SURFACE OF THE ROAD.

RK0500'

RK0500'THE STATION MARK, STAMPED SKANDIA 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK SET IN A

RK0500'SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS 1 INCH. IT IS 27.7 FEET

RK0500'SOUTHEAST OF THE NORTHEAST LEG OF THE LOOKOUT TOWER, 20.2 FEET EAST

RK0500'OF THE SOUTHEAST LEG OF THE LOOKOUT TOWER, 21.3 FEET WEST OF A

RK0500'12-INCH TREE WITH A TRIANGLE BLAZE ON THE WEST SIDE AND 3.6 FEET

RK0500'SOUTHWEST OF A WHITE WITNESS POST.

RK0500'

RK0500'REFERENCE MARK NO. 1, STAMPED SKANDIA NO 1 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK

RK0500'SET IN A SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS 2 INCHES. IT IS 46.7

RK0500'FEET EAST OF THE CENTER LINE OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41, 30 FEET SOUTH OF

RK0500'THE CENTER OF THE DRIVEWAY TO THE LOOKOUT TOWER, 29 FEET WEST OF

RK0500'A 30-INCH TREE WITH A TRIANGLE BLAZE ON THE WEST SIDE AND ABOUT 15

RK0500'FEET LOWER THAN THE STATION.

RK0500'

RK0500'REFERENCE MARK NO. 2, STAMPED SKANDIA NO 2 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK

RK0500'SET IN A SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS 6 INCHES. IT IS IN THE

RK0500'CENTER OF THE BASE OF THE LOOKOUT TOWER AND AT APPROXIMATELY THE

RK0500'SAME ELEVATION AS THE STATION.

RK0500'

RK0500'THE AZIMUTH MARK, STAMPED SKANDIA 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK SET IN A

RK0500'SQUARE CONCRETE POST WHICH PROJECTS 12 INCHES. IT IS 80.3 FEET

RK0500'SOUTHEAST OF A SIGN ADVERTISING HOMELITE CHAIN SAWS, 53.5 FEET WEST

RK0500'OF THE CENTER LINE OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41, 15.6 FEET EAST OF A FENCE AND

RK0500'3 FEET NORTHEAST OF A WHITE WITNESS POST.

RK0500'

RK0500'TO REACH THE AZIMUTH MARK FROM THE STATION, GO SOUTHERLY ON U. S.

RK0500'HIGHWAY 41 AND 0.45 MILE TO THE JUNCTION OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41 AND

RK0500'STATE HIGHWAY 94, CONTINUE SOUTH FOR 94 YARDS TO THE AZIMUTH MARK ON

RK0500'THE RIGHT.

RK0500'

RK0500'A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF CLEARING WILL BE NECESSARY TO SET THE

RK0500'AZIMUTH MARK FROM THE GROUND.

RK0500'

RK0500'HEIGHT OF LIGHT ABOVE STATION MARK 37 METERS.

RK0500

RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1961)

RK0500

RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1961 (CAA)

RK0500'THE STATION WAS RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED IN THE 1955 DESCRIPTION AND

RK0500'ALL MARKS WERE FOUND TO BE IN GOOD CONDITION.

RK0500'

RK0500'THE ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION IS ADEQUATE.

RK0500'

RK0500'THE DIRECTION TO ALL MARKS WERE CHECKED AND FOUND TO BE CORRECT, THE

RK0500'DISTANCE TO R. M. NO. 2. CHECKED AND A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE WAS FOUND

RK0500'IN THE DISTANCE TO RM. NO. 1.

RK0500'

RK0500'A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF CLEARING IS NECESSARY TO MAKE THE AZIMUTH

RK0500'MARK VISIBLE FROM THE GROUND AT THE STATION.

RK0500

RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1975)

RK0500

RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1975 (JLC)

RK0500'THE STATION MARK, REFERENCE MARKS 1 AND 2 WERE RECOVERED AND FOUND IN

RK0500'GOOD CONDITION. THE AZIMUTH MARK HAS BEEN DESTROYED, NO SUITABLE

RK0500'PLACE TO ESTABLISH A NEW MARK. THE HORIZONTAL DIRECTIONS CHECKED

RK0500'BETWEEN THE REFERENCE MARKS ADEQUATELY, HOWEVER, THE DISTANCE TO

RK0500'REFERENCE MARK 1 WAS IN DIFFERENCE OF 0.007 METER LONGER,

RK0500'DISTANCE TO REFERENCE MARK 2 CHECKED ADEQUATELY. DUE TO FENCE

RK0500'AROUND THE STATION MARK A NEW REFERENCE 3 WAS ESTABLISHED AND ALL

RK0500'OBSERVATIONS OBSERVED FROM A 103 FOOT TOWER. FOR ADDITIONAL

RK0500'INFORMATION SEE DESCRIPTION FOR SKANDIA RM 3.

RK0500'

RK0500'AIRLINE DISTANCE AND DIRECTION FROM NEAREST TOWN--2 MILES SOUTHEAST

RK0500'OF SKANDIA.

RK0500

RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1992)

RK0500

RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY US POWER SQUADRON 1992 (AEA)

RK0500'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.

RK0500

RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1995)

RK0500

RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY LOCAL ENGINEER (INDIVIDUAL OR FIRM) 1995

RK0500'RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED.

RK0500

RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (2000)

RK0500

RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2000 (MPR)

RK0500'1 FT SOUTHWEST OF A WITNESS POST AND FLUSH WITH THE GROUND.

 

*** retrieval complete.

Elapsed Time = 00:00:07

 

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