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5/5 Caches

buzzy_cacher
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buzzy_cacher

+buzzy_cacher

Posted
Posted

Whenever someone mentions a 5/5 cache my eyes light up. This is because it is (supposedly) one of the hardest caches out their. But recently, I have seen some 5/5 caches that don't really seem to be a 5/5. Here's why:

 

Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache.

 

Wouldn't that mean that a cache on Mt. Everest, the size of a warehouse, would be a 1/5?? 5 to get their but once you're there it is a 1. But if it wasn't a warehouse and say it was... a nano blending in with the snow, then wouldn't it be a 5/5?

 

I am just a little confused because most of the time when I read a 5/5 listing I say to myself, shouldn't that be a 1/5 or a 2/5.

 

Your comments appreciated.

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Touchstone

+Touchstone

Posted
Posted

I tend to agree that overrating Listings is relatively common. Enough so, that I don't really put much weight in the rating.

 

Concerning the Difficulty:

 

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache.

 

I'll just add that the Difficulty can be based on several factors, and not merely locating the cache:

 

Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.

Please consider visibility, accessibility, and relative signal strength due to tree cover or other obstructions when answering this question.

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Snoogans

+Snoogans

Posted
Posted

Whenever someone mentions a 5/5 cache my eyes light up. This is because it is (supposedly) one of the hardest caches out their. But recently, I have seen some 5/5 caches that don't really seem to be a 5/5. Here's why:

 

Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache.

 

Wouldn't that mean that a cache on Mt. Everest, the size of a warehouse, would be a 1/5?? 5 to get their but once you're there it is a 1. But if it wasn't a warehouse and say it was... a nano blending in with the snow, then wouldn't it be a 5/5?

 

I am just a little confused because most of the time when I read a 5/5 listing I say to myself, shouldn't that be a 1/5 or a 2/5.

 

Your comments appreciated.

 

All of my 5/5s are over rated in the height of summer, but try for a few in winter, or in bad weather, and you might need a satellite phone to call a chopper to come rescue you.

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GermanSailor

GermanSailor

Posted
Posted

I am just a little confused because most of the time when I read a 5/5 listing I say to myself, shouldn't that be a 1/5 or a 2/5.

 

Your comments appreciated.

I hear you. A T5 geocache hidden in a tree were you need climbing equipment ist T5. But if you can see geocache from the ground = from 60 feet away, thats D1.

 

GermanSailor

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tomfuller & Quill

+tomfuller & Quill

Posted
Posted

Whenever someone mentions a 5/5 cache my eyes light up. This is because it is (supposedly) one of the hardest caches out their. But recently, I have seen some 5/5 caches that don't really seem to be a 5/5. Here's why:

 

Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache.

 

Wouldn't that mean that a cache on Mt. Everest, the size of a warehouse, would be a 1/5?? 5 to get their but once you're there it is a 1. But if it wasn't a warehouse and say it was... a nano blending in with the snow, then wouldn't it be a 5/5?

 

I am just a little confused because most of the time when I read a 5/5 listing I say to myself, shouldn't that be a 1/5 or a 2/5.

 

Your comments appreciated.

 

All of my 5/5s are over rated in the height of summer, but try for a few in winter, or in bad weather, and you might need a satellite phone to call a chopper to come rescue you.

I hid my 5/5 cache only after finding 6-5/5's. Someone from Spokane recently sent me the proper co-ords so maybe it will be found again this year. It had a FTF in September 2007. The puzzle probably is not a 5 but the terrain requires the knowledge to know when not to attempt and some mountain skills.

Of the 5/5's that I have found, only 1 qualified on both D and T. The 5/5 event I attended qualified on the terrain but the campsite was not too hard.

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briansnat

+briansnat

Posted
Posted

I think there are very few true 5/5 caches and agree that most of the ones out there are very over rated. I noticed in my stats that I have found one 5/5 and it was so unremarkable that I don't recall what it was. A true 5/5 would likely be an unforgettable experience

 

I just did a PQ of 5/5s in my area.

 

The first (GCGY04) is a 7 stage multi. Not sure what makes it a 5/5 but most people seem to find it in a day so that tells me that it really isn't a 5/5

 

Next one (GCZ7EB) is a hide very high in a tree and requires climbing equipment. Probably really a 1 or 1.5/5

 

Next one (GC22FFD) looks like it might qualify. Logs tell of multiple visits to find it and there seems to be numerous twists along the way.

 

Next up is one (GC18RET) that is on the side of a cliff and requires climbing equipment. There doesn't seem to be any trick to finding the cache itself so it's probably actually a 1/5 or 2/5

 

The next (GC18K1G) is rated as a 5/5 but there appears to be 3 containers of different D/T ratings and the finders can choose which one they want to find. The 5/5 appears to require some climbing so maybe the 5 terrain is valid, but again I don't see how the difficulty is 5. The hint has a pretty precise description of the hiding place. Probably really a 2/5.

 

Then there's GC235EE. It appears to definitely earn its 5 star terrain rating. It also has a puzzle which I assume is the reason for the 5 difficulty, but judging from the logs its not a difficult puzzle. It is probably really a 3/5 or maybe a 3.5/5

 

So in all probability one of the first six 5/5s is a true 5/5.

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Kit Fox

+Kit Fox

Posted
Posted

I've argued this on many previous threads:

 

Difficulty rating system:

**** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

Most climbers require about four days to ascend Mount Everest from Base Camp (It takes 8-10 days to reach Everest Base Camp). The fastest ascent from the north side is held by Hans Kammerlander of Italy and took him 16 hours and 45 minutes from Base Camp. The fastest ascent from the South took just under 11 hours and was accomplished by Lakba Gelu Sherpa. Babu Chiri Sherpa, who was at the summit for 21.5 hours, holds the record for the most time spent on top of Everest. However, people typically spend about an hour at the top on average.

 

Cost

The average cost of a fully guided journey up Everest from the south side is $65,000. A fully guided climb from the north costs somewhat less, averaging around $40,000. These costs do not typically include personal gear, international airfare, or insurance, all of which can add thousands to the trip. Starting from scratch, the required gear would run at least $8,000. The figure is closer to $15,000 with the addition of items like a laptop and digital camera.

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DragonsWest

+DragonsWest

Posted
Posted

5th level of difficulty: Terrain

Scuba, Kayak, Canoe, Climbing/Descending gear, plus necessary skills to achieve success.

 

5th level of difficulty: Cache

Difficult puzzle, needle in haystack, special equipment necessary to see cache or follow trail, extremely long multi.

 

I've seen a couple, where the relatively new hider rated it a 4 difficulty cache because they thought their fake pine cone would fool everyone.

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dfx

+dfx

Posted
Posted (edited)
Wouldn't that mean that a cache on Mt. Everest, the size of a warehouse, would be a 1/5??

generally yes, however some COs feel that their cache deserves a rating that is "off the scale" and therefore up the other rating as well. for example, as easy-to-find cache on an island (requiring a boat to get there) would be a 1/5, but now looking at a cache on mt everest it seems a bit unfair, clearly getting to mt everest is much harder than getting on an island. this is why the CO would want to make it a 5/5 instead, even though technically it's not quite correct.

Edited by dfx
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Scubasonic

+Scubasonic

Posted
Posted

Whenever someone mentions a 5/5 cache my eyes light up. This is because it is (supposedly) one of the hardest caches out their. But recently, I have seen some 5/5 caches that don't really seem to be a 5/5. Here's why:

 

Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache.

 

Wouldn't that mean that a cache on Mt. Everest, the size of a warehouse, would be a 1/5?? 5 to get their but once you're there it is a 1. But if it wasn't a warehouse and say it was... a nano blending in with the snow, then wouldn't it be a 5/5?

 

I am just a little confused because most of the time when I read a 5/5 listing I say to myself, shouldn't that be a 1/5 or a 2/5.

 

Your comments appreciated.

 

I agree believe it or not I have gone to Gocaching events at a Pizza place with Handicapped ramps to the place and it was rated a 5/5 :anicute:

 

Scubasonic

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JL_HSTRE

+JL_HSTRE

Posted
Posted

Some multi-caches REALLY earn the 5/5. There is one locally that has 6 stages spread throughout a state park. You visit each stage to find information necessary to answer some questions to find the next stage. 2 of the 6 stages require a kayak/canoe/boat to access. If you did all the stages in one day it would probably take an entire day to get them all.

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wolfslady

+wolfslady

Posted
Posted (edited)

I agree with Kit Fox ~ The time and expense of getting to somewhere like Mt. Everest add to the difficultily but on that one. Besides this seems like an extreme cache were the true terrain rating should be much higher than a 5. If you use it as an example of what a 5 should be that like saying that it should be used for caches that 99.9% of people can't do. I don't think that was the spirit of the ratings. I'd much rather come across one that is overrated than underrated. (typo)

Edited by wolfslady
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Andronicus

Andronicus

Posted
Posted

Doesn't a 5 difficulty imply that it will likely take 2 or 3 visites to actualy make the find. Not sure that I would be commited enough to do a (true) 5 terrain 2 or 3 times. Maybe if the terrian was for something easy like climbing a tree, but not the typical 5h mountain scramble.

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mountainman38

+mountainman38

Posted
Posted

....I hid my 5/5 cache only after finding 6-5/5's. Someone from Spokane recently sent me the proper co-ords so maybe it will be found again this year. It had a FTF in September 2007. The puzzle probably is not a 5 but the terrain requires the knowledge to know when not to attempt and some mountain skills....

 

As was mentioned in another thread, the difficulty of a puzzle is often related directly to how familiar with the subject one is. I found the puzzle part of your "Slope Distance" rather straightforward, but that's probably because of the kind of work I do. There's a 2.5 star puzzle here in town that I've been struggling in vain with for the last 6 months!

 

The terrain on your cache, on the other hand, looks worthy of every bit of it's 5 stars -- I don't care who you are!

 

I certainly hope to try it soon, if I can figure out a compelling reason to drag my family on a drive clear to the middle of Oregon.

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redsox_mark

+redsox_mark

Posted
Posted

This definition:

 

"Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache."

 

Is logical and "clean" - there is no overlap between the two. But this is not in the guidelines anywhere that I know of.

 

I agree with Kit Fox's post; the definition of difficulty is

 

Difficulty rating system:

**** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

There is nothing in that definition which says this only applies once you get to the general area. If you consider the overall difficulty of the task of finding a cache on Mt Everest, it is a difficult task (takes lots of preparation, multiple days etc) - regardless of how easy it is to find once you are within a few feet of it. So I think 5/5 is appropriate.

 

That's not to say that there aren't 5/5 caches which are over-rated.

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t4e

+t4e

Posted
Posted

 

Good idea for an event but one serious question how can it be open to all geocachers? ? ?.

 

as per bellow, they are guidelines only and the reviewer makes the final decision

 

These are listing guidelines only. Before a cache is published on the website, a volunteer will review the page for inaccuracies, bad coordinates, and compliance with these guidelines.

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted

I've seen event caches listed as 5x5 which is just a lame excuse to even visit one of them.

 

 

events can truly be 5/5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...25-899a382986f5

 

How is the difficulty for that one a 5? The terrain rating may certainly be justified but is there something about the location which would make it difficult to find the even once you got close to the published coordinates?

 

Perhaps and an event which required a long arduous hike that went up and down mountains and eventually to a deep canyon where satellite reception was poor and the "event" was held in a hidden cave might produce a 5/5 event cache.

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res2100

+res2100

Posted
Posted

I've seen event caches listed as 5x5 which is just a lame excuse to even visit one of them.

 

 

events can truly be 5/5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...25-899a382986f5

 

How is the difficulty for that one a 5? The terrain rating may certainly be justified but is there something about the location which would make it difficult to find the even once you got close to the published coordinates?

 

Perhaps and an event which required a long arduous hike that went up and down mountains and eventually to a deep canyon where satellite reception was poor and the "event" was held in a hidden cave might produce a 5/5 event cache.

 

Since this is my event and this is a follow up to my event from 2008 where we went to the highest mountain in Ontario (GCYYQR), I will address why it is a difficulty of 5.

 

First lets look at the rating system that Groundspeak links when submitting a cache. Here it was it says for Difficulty 4 and Difficulty 5:

Difficulty 4

Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find

Difficulty 5

Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.

--very specialized knowledge (in-depth preparation from D4) - Most definitely. I have spent hours and days over the past year trying to figure out how to get to this place. Studying maps, books, online, talking with people. Deciding on which approach would work for what I know I am capable of.

--skills - Your in the middle of nowhere, you need survival skills from nature and from bears. You are in the middle of nowhere 60km from the nearest town. No cell coverage, no way of getting help if something happens.

--equipment - atv, boat, sea plane, supplies...enough liquid to drink (3 times the amount you think you need), survival gear...just making sure you have the right stuff.

--serious mental or physical challenge - The physical is a given. The mental is probably what's the killer for most people. You have to be mentally prepared and go into this knowing that you can make it. The amount of time mentally preparing and planning the adventure. Being in the woods, not knowing if you have what it takes to get there, not knowing if you will encounter a bear or what if you are in the middle of the woods and something happens, or you lose half the people in your group (happened in 2008 going up to Ishpatina in the middle of our 5km bushwack, where we got lost from the other 3 most experienced\fit cachers and it was me, another lady, another guy who couldn't make it to the top and 2 young teenagers). Then the biggest problem, how to make 1 bottle of gatorade last me for 10km of bushwacking and 4 km of trail til we got back to where we stashed our supplies (I don't know what I was thinking...or not thinking obviously). Then on the way down, it was just me and one other lady doing the bushwack together, lack of drinks, fighting to beat the approaching darkness, trying to find the trail, taking a different and unknown route back. This was just mentally draining. Too bad there is not a rating higher than 5 for difficulty. Now for this event to Maple Mountain I am just dreading the rock face that we have to get up.

--May require multiple days (D4) - normally this is a week long round trip that people do to get here. Me and 2 other people are doing it in a day. No one has ever taken the approach that the 3 of us are doing. If you ask the locals, they will think we are crazy.

 

If you ask anyone that was at my Ishpatina event in 2008 or the 6 people that were at the Maple Mountain event in September, everyone one of them will tell you it is without a doubt a difficulty of 5.

 

If anyone thinks that this isn't a difficulty of 5, then I challenge them to come and see if they can attend my event. There's probably a very good reason why only 4 people have posted a will attend and no one form the previous 2 events are attempting this one. Plus it's an experience of a lifetime. Many people that attended my event in 2008 said it was their best cache experience ever and I know for me it was...just read everyone's logs from the past 2 mountain top events.

 

In the end, the whole rating system is just a guide and I base the rating of my caches on my 7.5 years of caching experience.

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redsox_mark

+redsox_mark

Posted
Posted

I've seen event caches listed as 5x5 which is just a lame excuse to even visit one of them.

 

 

events can truly be 5/5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...25-899a382986f5

 

How is the difficulty for that one a 5? The terrain rating may certainly be justified but is there something about the location which would make it difficult to find the even once you got close to the published coordinates?

 

Perhaps and an event which required a long arduous hike that went up and down mountains and eventually to a deep canyon where satellite reception was poor and the "event" was held in a hidden cave might produce a 5/5 event cache.

 

Since this is my event and this is a follow up to my event from 2008 where we went to the highest mountain in Ontario (GCYYQR), I will address why it is a difficulty of 5.

 

First lets look at the rating system that Groundspeak links when submitting a cache. Here it was it says for Difficulty 4 and Difficulty 5:

Difficulty 4

Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find

Difficulty 5

Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.

--very specialized knowledge (in-depth preparation from D4) - Most definitely. I have spent hours and days over the past year trying to figure out how to get to this place. Studying maps, books, online, talking with people. Deciding on which approach would work for what I know I am capable of.

--skills - Your in the middle of nowhere, you need survival skills from nature and from bears. You are in the middle of nowhere 60km from the nearest town. No cell coverage, no way of getting help if something happens.

--equipment - atv, boat, sea plane, supplies...enough liquid to drink (3 times the amount you think you need), survival gear...just making sure you have the right stuff.

--serious mental or physical challenge - The physical is a given. The mental is probably what's the killer for most people. You have to be mentally prepared and go into this knowing that you can make it. The amount of time mentally preparing and planning the adventure. Being in the woods, not knowing if you have what it takes to get there, not knowing if you will encounter a bear or what if you are in the middle of the woods and something happens, or you lose half the people in your group (happened in 2008 going up to Ishpatina in the middle of our 5km bushwack, where we got lost from the other 3 most experienced\fit cachers and it was me, another lady, another guy who couldn't make it to the top and 2 young teenagers). Then the biggest problem, how to make 1 bottle of gatorade last me for 10km of bushwacking and 4 km of trail til we got back to where we stashed our supplies (I don't know what I was thinking...or not thinking obviously). Then on the way down, it was just me and one other lady doing the bushwack together, lack of drinks, fighting to beat the approaching darkness, trying to find the trail, taking a different and unknown route back. This was just mentally draining. Too bad there is not a rating higher than 5 for difficulty. Now for this event to Maple Mountain I am just dreading the rock face that we have to get up.

--May require multiple days (D4) - normally this is a week long round trip that people do to get here. Me and 2 other people are doing it in a day. No one has ever taken the approach that the 3 of us are doing. If you ask the locals, they will think we are crazy.

 

If you ask anyone that was at my Ishpatina event in 2008 or the 6 people that were at the Maple Mountain event in September, everyone one of them will tell you it is without a doubt a difficulty of 5.

 

If anyone thinks that this isn't a difficulty of 5, then I challenge them to come and see if they can attend my event. There's probably a very good reason why only 4 people have posted a will attend and no one form the previous 2 events are attempting this one. Plus it's an experience of a lifetime. Many people that attended my event in 2008 said it was their best cache experience ever and I know for me it was...just read everyone's logs from the past 2 mountain top events.

 

In the end, the whole rating system is just a guide and I base the rating of my caches on my 7.5 years of caching experience.

 

I agree this is difficult (I couldn't do it!), and using the definition of difficult which the site links to, it should be D=5.

 

As I posted earlier, I think the reason some see the difficulty differently is they use this definition, posted earlier in this thread:

 

"Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache."

 

Using that definition, one could argue that all the valid points you make are about getting to the cache. To make it "difficult" by this definition, you would need to make it difficult to find the others once you are at the agreed meeting place.

 

But I agree with you.

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RJHT

RJHT

Posted
Posted

Problem is that people place 5/5 after only seen maybee one or two 5/5

Some of them maybe isn't a "pure" 5/5 in the sense of finding it and get to the cache but in other aspect that may change the D-rating to.

Take the cache Deathwish in Sweden, yes you can walk out to it without any gear and take it in less than 15 minutes. but is it "right" and safe?

 

Should that be a 5/5 I think so but looking blindly on the guidelines it would be 1/3

I don't know I think the best you can do is talk to the owner if u think its wrong rating...

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t4e

+t4e

Posted
Posted

 

As I posted earlier, I think the reason some see the difficulty differently is they use this definition, posted earlier in this thread:

 

"Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache."

 

 

where is this pub that makes this one a D=5? :D

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...98-976b20a3567c

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NYPaddleCacher

+NYPaddleCacher

Posted
Posted

I've seen event caches listed as 5x5 which is just a lame excuse to even visit one of them.

 

 

events can truly be 5/5

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...25-899a382986f5

 

How is the difficulty for that one a 5? The terrain rating may certainly be justified but is there something about the location which would make it difficult to find the even once you got close to the published coordinates?

 

Perhaps and an event which required a long arduous hike that went up and down mountains and eventually to a deep canyon where satellite reception was poor and the "event" was held in a hidden cave might produce a 5/5 event cache.

 

Since this is my event and this is a follow up to my event from 2008 where we went to the highest mountain in Ontario (GCYYQR), I will address why it is a difficulty of 5.

 

First lets look at the rating system that Groundspeak links when submitting a cache. Here it was it says for Difficulty 4 and Difficulty 5:

Difficulty 4

Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find

Difficulty 5

Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.

--very specialized knowledge (in-depth preparation from D4) - Most definitely. I have spent hours and days over the past year trying to figure out how to get to this place. Studying maps, books, online, talking with people. Deciding on which approach would work for what I know I am capable of.

--skills - Your in the middle of nowhere, you need survival skills from nature and from bears. You are in the middle of nowhere 60km from the nearest town. No cell coverage, no way of getting help if something happens.

--equipment - atv, boat, sea plane, supplies...enough liquid to drink (3 times the amount you think you need), survival gear...just making sure you have the right stuff.

--serious mental or physical challenge - The physical is a given. The mental is probably what's the killer for most people. You have to be mentally prepared and go into this knowing that you can make it. The amount of time mentally preparing and planning the adventure. Being in the woods, not knowing if you have what it takes to get there, not knowing if you will encounter a bear or what if you are in the middle of the woods and something happens, or you lose half the people in your group (happened in 2008 going up to Ishpatina in the middle of our 5km bushwack, where we got lost from the other 3 most experienced\fit cachers and it was me, another lady, another guy who couldn't make it to the top and 2 young teenagers). Then the biggest problem, how to make 1 bottle of gatorade last me for 10km of bushwacking and 4 km of trail til we got back to where we stashed our supplies (I don't know what I was thinking...or not thinking obviously). Then on the way down, it was just me and one other lady doing the bushwack together, lack of drinks, fighting to beat the approaching darkness, trying to find the trail, taking a different and unknown route back. This was just mentally draining. Too bad there is not a rating higher than 5 for difficulty. Now for this event to Maple Mountain I am just dreading the rock face that we have to get up.

--May require multiple days (D4) - normally this is a week long round trip that people do to get here. Me and 2 other people are doing it in a day. No one has ever taken the approach that the 3 of us are doing. If you ask the locals, they will think we are crazy.

 

If you ask anyone that was at my Ishpatina event in 2008 or the 6 people that were at the Maple Mountain event in September, everyone one of them will tell you it is without a doubt a difficulty of 5.

 

If anyone thinks that this isn't a difficulty of 5, then I challenge them to come and see if they can attend my event. There's probably a very good reason why only 4 people have posted a will attend and no one form the previous 2 events are attempting this one. Plus it's an experience of a lifetime. Many people that attended my event in 2008 said it was their best cache experience ever and I know for me it was...just read everyone's logs from the past 2 mountain top events.

 

In the end, the whole rating system is just a guide and I base the rating of my caches on my 7.5 years of caching experience.

 

Sorry, I'm still not convinced. Let's look at those guidelines again:

 

Difficulty 4

Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find

Difficulty 5

Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.

 

The key word here is "find", which I think can get confusing given the connotation of "a find" in the context of geocaching. In that context, "a find" occurs when one has identified the location of a container (or event), retrieved the container, signed the log, then replaced the container. However, to me, the use of the word "find" in the context of the rating system is only a rating of the difficulty in identifying the location of the container. The act of retrieving and replacing the container can be influenced by the terrain (i.e. it requires very long and strenuous hike, climbing a tree or down a cliff, or requires a boat to access the container.

 

Although the "T" rating is implied to be a measurement of the terrain (or the effort and/or special equipment required), to me, it's a measurement of the effort required to navigate to the location of the container. The fact that your event would be "difficult" to navigate to and even survive for an extended period of time is separate from the "difficulty" of locating the event once you have arrived.

 

I'm not denying that meeting the criteria for logging a find on your event would be extremely difficult but I still see a difference between accessing the location (and of course returning home) and "finding" the event once you've arrived, but I've only been geocaching for 3.5 years so what do I know.

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res2100

+res2100

Posted
Posted

Every cache hunt starts when one makes a conscious decision to attempt a find on the cache which is usually when you are sitting in front of the computer at home especially for a tough cache.

 

Difficulty is not just how hard it is to retrieve the cache once you get to where the GPS is pointing. Just like with puzzle caches, it starts at home trying to solve them and I have seen no one disagree that the toughness of a puzzle is reflected in the difficulty too. As with the event, because of the nature of the event, it starts with making the necessary preparations and planning well before hand which adds to the difficulty level as per the link to the D/T rating system when submitting a new cache. Answering the questions correctly and using one's own judgment will result in an fairly accurate D/T rating for the cache as is the case with many of the 5/5 caches out there.

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niraD

+niraD

Posted
Posted
I have seen no one disagree that the toughness of a puzzle is reflected in the difficulty too.
With the current system, I agree that it makes the most sense to adjust the difficulty rating to reflect the toughness of a puzzle. However, I think a better system would have a separate rating that reflected the additional challenge(s) beyond reaching GZ (terrain) and finding the container once you're at GZ (difficulty). This would allow cache owners to rate the terrain and difficulty "correctly", using the "challenge rating" to reflect solving a puzzle, completing tasks required for a challenge cache, picking a lock, etc.
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Harry Dolphin

+Harry Dolphin

Posted
Posted
I have seen no one disagree that the toughness of a puzzle is reflected in the difficulty too.
With the current system, I agree that it makes the most sense to adjust the difficulty rating to reflect the toughness of a puzzle. However, I think a better system would have a separate rating that reflected the additional challenge(s) beyond reaching GZ (terrain) and finding the container once you're at GZ (difficulty). This would allow cache owners to rate the terrain and difficulty "correctly", using the "challenge rating" to reflect solving a puzzle, completing tasks required for a challenge cache, picking a lock, etc.

 

Why fix what ain't broken? Terrain is in getting to the cache. Difficulty is in either find the cache once you get there, or solving the puzzle to get there.

Yes. The system is abused. Especially with 5 Stars. I've done two 5/5s. One was an extremely tough puzzle that took us months to solve. Distance between the waypoints was probably ten miles, if you choose to walk it. But, you could drive to, or near, most, or take the subway. I would have rated it 5/2.5. Oh, well. The other was a moving cache. After you found it, you put it in another cache, not mentioning where you put it. Definitely 5 for difficulty, if you are actively trying to find it. Terrain would vary. I found it in a 2.5 terrain cache.

I did a 5 Terrain cache that took us two days to hike to, with 4000' of climb. (And another two days to hike out...) Younger, more fit geocachers could, and have, done it in a day. Probably only a 4.5 for terrain. Oh, well.

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power69

+power69

Posted
Posted

Whenever someone mentions a 5/5 cache my eyes light up. This is because it is (supposedly) one of the hardest caches out their. But recently, I have seen some 5/5 caches that don't really seem to be a 5/5. Here's why:

 

Terrain: How difficult it is to get to the general cache area.

Difficulty: Once you're in the general area, how hard it is to find the cache.

 

Wouldn't that mean that a cache on Mt. Everest, the size of a warehouse, would be a 1/5?? 5 to get their but once you're there it is a 1. But if it wasn't a warehouse and say it was... a nano blending in with the snow, then wouldn't it be a 5/5?

 

I am just a little confused because most of the time when I read a 5/5 listing I say to myself, shouldn't that be a 1/5 or a 2/5.

 

Your comments appreciated.

I have one. GC20A37, one find. however the way it was retrieved knocked a few stars off both diff/terr and i had to go rehide it as designed.

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ArtieD

+ArtieD

Posted
Posted (edited)

Heres a true 5/5. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...bc-c00a30ffaa38

 

Theres a few more nearby :blink: . What are you waiting for :) ?

 

Actually, if the cache is hidden as the page suggests, it's a 1/5...

 

Also, you might want to change the cache page...this part of the cache listing is pretty much an ALR:

 

"If you are going with a group, everybody should have some part in the fun. Example, one person retrieves the cache, then, the next person replaces it after the two log it. To make sure there is zero confusion, what I mean by taking part in the fun is that in order to log this cache as a find, you will need to physically retrieve the cache yourself. If one person gets it, that person alone is allowed to log the cache. Now if one person gets it, and another person replaces it, both of the cachers can log this as a find. What I'm trying to avoid here is having one person get the cache, then have several people log it, and have the same person replace it."

 

The cache looks fun to do...I just thought I'd let you know so that it doesn't get taken down or something if someone complained if their log got deleted. This one looks the same, so you might look at it as well...

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...b5-4f1912ffab60

Edited by Arthur & Trillian
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power69

+power69

Posted
Posted

Whenever someone mentions a 5/5 cache my eyes light up. This is because it is (supposedly) one of the hardest caches out their. But recently, I have seen some 5/5 caches that don't really seem to be a 5/5. Here's why:

I have one thats a 5/1, because it requires special tools to retrieve. the questionnaire wanted it to be a 5/5. you gotta use your head sometimes along with the guideline.

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The Blorenges

+The Blorenges

Posted
Posted

This may be of interest too...

 

This cache, "The tallest tree in the forest", has been on my Watchlist for a few years. It was rated (I think) 5/5 - It's at the top of a very high tree.

 

Yesterday there was a gathering of cachers at the tree and, as far as I can make out, someone brought along a friend who was a tree-climbing professional. He retrieved the cache, brought it to ground level and many of the cachers have logged finds.

 

The cache owner Sui 001 has posted - He's not at all happy - and has down-graded the cache to a 1/1.

 

MrsB

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redsox_mark

+redsox_mark

Posted
Posted

That is interesting (and I expect will generate much debate).

Whatever one thinks about the rights or wrongs of what the group did, I don't think changing the rating to 1/1 is appropriate - considering both cachers which found this previously, and new finders who don't read the whole cache page in advance and are surprised to find a 1/1 cache on top of a tree...

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Chokecherry

+Chokecherry

Posted
Posted

Now that it's downgraded to 1/1 all the people will mobility issues will now be going out there thinking it's a legitimate cache they can get only to find the owner was having an epic temper tantrum over the fact some people found and logged his cache. Maybe they didn't do it as he intended but then again in theory cache owners need to take into account creative cache finders.

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Team Cotati

+Team Cotati

Posted
Posted

I've argued this on many previous threads:

 

Difficulty rating system:

**** Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

 

Most climbers require about four days to ascend Mount Everest from Base Camp (It takes 8-10 days to reach Everest Base Camp). The fastest ascent from the north side is held by Hans Kammerlander of Italy and took him 16 hours and 45 minutes from Base Camp. The fastest ascent from the South took just under 11 hours and was accomplished by Lakba Gelu Sherpa. Babu Chiri Sherpa, who was at the summit for 21.5 hours, holds the record for the most time spent on top of Everest. However, people typically spend about an hour at the top on average.

 

Cost

The average cost of a fully guided journey up Everest from the south side is $65,000. A fully guided climb from the north costs somewhat less, averaging around $40,000. These costs do not typically include personal gear, international airfare, or insurance, all of which can add thousands to the trip. Starting from scratch, the required gear would run at least $8,000. The figure is closer to $15,000 with the addition of items like a laptop and digital camera.

 

How does that compare to K2?

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