New Icon for Challenge Caches!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Wouldn't that be nice, and make it easier to figure out where to find the listings?

[+J the Goat]

I like it, my vote is yes.

[jholly]

Gee, I kind of like it the way it is now, it is a challenge to find the challenge!

[+roziecakes]

I like that idea as well! But then again, I'm a big challenge cache freak. They are my favorite. Currently working on three.

[+narcissa]

If they had stringent guidelines about what constitutes a "challenge," that might be okay. Right now a lot of the "challenge" caches I'm seeing are just this side of being lame ALRs, and now people are creating sock puppet accounts so they can place caches for themselves to "find" in order to fulfill these challenges. Making challenge caches more official might be a good way to bring this under control. That, or just ban them, but that would be unfortunate since there are some good ones out there.

[jholly]

If they had stringent guidelines about what constitutes a "challenge," that might be okay. Right now a lot of the "challenge" caches I'm seeing are just this side of being lame ALRs, and now people are creating sock puppet accounts so they can place caches for themselves to "find" in order to fulfill these challenges. Making challenge caches more official might be a good way to bring this under control. That, or just ban them, but that would be unfortunate since there are some good ones out there.

 

From the knowledge base - Callenge Caches.

[+narcissa]

If they had stringent guidelines about what constitutes a "challenge," that might be okay. Right now a lot of the "challenge" caches I'm seeing are just this side of being lame ALRs, and now people are creating sock puppet accounts so they can place caches for themselves to "find" in order to fulfill these challenges. Making challenge caches more official might be a good way to bring this under control. That, or just ban them, but that would be unfortunate since there are some good ones out there.

 

From the knowledge base - Callenge Caches.

 

Providing a link without comment doesn't really elucidate any kind of point.

[jholly]

If they had stringent guidelines about what constitutes a "challenge," that might be okay. Right now a lot of the "challenge" caches I'm seeing are just this side of being lame ALRs, and now people are creating sock puppet accounts so they can place caches for themselves to "find" in order to fulfill these challenges. Making challenge caches more official might be a good way to bring this under control. That, or just ban them, but that would be unfortunate since there are some good ones out there.

 

From the knowledge base - Callenge Caches.

 

Providing a link without comment doesn't really elucidate any kind of point.

 

Sorry, I guess some people need to have things explained to them using small words and lots of color photographs.

[+narcissa]

 

Sorry, I guess some people need to have things explained to them using small words and lots of color photographs.

 

Sorry, I guess some people can't explain what their point is in their own words.

 

Is it your point that Groundspeak already has some standards about challenge caches and further guidelines and/or enforcement aren't necessary?

 

Or is it your point that these standards are poorly enforced, and that's why so many poor-quality challenge caches are getting through the review process?

 

Again, simply posting a link doesn't explain much.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

If they had stringent guidelines about what constitutes a "challenge," that might be okay. Right now a lot of the "challenge" caches I'm seeing are just this side of being lame ALRs, and now people are creating sock puppet accounts so they can place caches for themselves to "find" in order to fulfill these challenges. Making challenge caches more official might be a good way to bring this under control. That, or just ban them, but that would be unfortunate since there are some good ones out there.

Well, they could just make it so that certain requirements need to be met to qualify a Challenge Cache to get the Icon. Like they have done with the Lost & Found.

[+narcissa]

If they had stringent guidelines about what constitutes a "challenge," that might be okay. Right now a lot of the "challenge" caches I'm seeing are just this side of being lame ALRs, and now people are creating sock puppet accounts so they can place caches for themselves to "find" in order to fulfill these challenges. Making challenge caches more official might be a good way to bring this under control. That, or just ban them, but that would be unfortunate since there are some good ones out there.

Well, they could just make it so that certain requirements need to be met to qualify a Challenge Cache to get the Icon. Like they have done with the Lost & Found.

 

Yeah, something like that. Better standards and/or enforcement of those standards would improve things. I enjoy geocaching challenges (i.e. lists of geocaches that, as a group, form a substantial challenge), but "challenge caches," at least in my area, are becoming a bit of a blight on the game because they're ubiquitous and uniformly lame.

[+roziecakes]

 

Yeah, something like that. Better standards and/or enforcement of those standards would improve things. I enjoy geocaching challenges (i.e. lists of geocaches that, as a group, form a substantial challenge), but "challenge caches," at least in my area, are becoming a bit of a blight on the game because they're ubiquitous and uniformly lame.

 

I agree, if there is an icon to be made, there should be good guidelines or standards in place. I still would love to see an icon like this done. I just really like challenge caches... but non-lame ones are certainly better.

 

Here is one of our favorites that we did for our 500th find... it was really fun.

GC1PA00

[+Touchstone]

I agree, if there is an icon to be made, there should be good guidelines or standards in place. I still would love to see an icon like this done. I just really like challenge caches... but non-lame ones are certainly better.

 

Better standards and/or enforcement of those standards would improve things.

 

You mean, like institute some sort of quality standard or "Wow!" Factor to Challenge Caches?

 

I think we've been down that road before

[+tobe4evr1]

Good idea....but I do agree that not just any cache that calls itself a challenge is a challenge.....there should be some pretty tight guidelines to qualify.

[fishiam]

I think this is an excellent idea as well. I have two challenge caches (here and here) but after reading the Knowledge Base "points to consider", I'm wondering if mine are of the type of "grandfathered caches do exist out there which would not be publishable today."

 

In particular, this point:

7. Requiring cachers to find an explicit list of caches (rather than a broader category of caches) will likely prevent publication of the cache listing.

 

would prevent publishing since the Challenge is to find (or be the owner of) ALL active caches within the Seattle city limits.

 

cheers

fish

 

ps - I certainly don't mean to hijack this thread and if I should move this to a new, separate thread I'd be happy to do so. I just thought this might add to the discussion of Challenge caches.

[+narcissa]

 

You mean, like institute some sort of quality standard or "Wow!" Factor to Challenge Caches?

 

I think we've been down that road before

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of what good challenge caches already have. For starters, I think that only caches published BEFORE the challenge cache should qualify. That eliminates the sock puppet nonsense and friends placing caches for each other that's been happening around here.

 

The knowledge-base link that jholly provided does speak to some of the things that are necessary, but I don't see those standards being applied by cache owners or reviewers.

[jholly]

I'm thinking more along the lines of what good challenge caches already have. For starters, I think that only caches published BEFORE the challenge cache should qualify. That eliminates the sock puppet nonsense and friends placing caches for each other that's been happening around here.

 

That simply doesn't work. The The Jasmer Challenge (Northern California Edition) (GC1GBC1) requires caches after the published date as well as before. Other caches like the Kitsap County Challenge (GC19B6J) require found caches *after* the published date. The reason for this is very simple, someone that has been caching for a while would complete the challenge as soon as they check their GSAK database. Yeah, some of us hide caches for other players, but so what? There were more caches for every one to find. I think you need to rethink your position on this one.

[+ThePetersTrio]

I would definitely be in favor of a unique icon for Challenge Caches. I hope TPTB will consider it.

[+narcissa]

I'm thinking more along the lines of what good challenge caches already have. For starters, I think that only caches published BEFORE the challenge cache should qualify. That eliminates the sock puppet nonsense and friends placing caches for each other that's been happening around here.

 

That simply doesn't work. The The Jasmer Challenge (Northern California Edition) (GC1GBC1) requires caches after the published date as well as before. Other caches like the Kitsap County Challenge (GC19B6J) require found caches *after* the published date. The reason for this is very simple, someone that has been caching for a while would complete the challenge as soon as they check their GSAK database. Yeah, some of us hide caches for other players, but so what? There were more caches for every one to find. I think you need to rethink your position on this one.

 

My area has no lack of caches, but challenge caches are contributing to a decline in cache quality. Lately there have been a rash of sock puppet accounts in this area. These accounts are being used to create caches that fill in rare D/T combinations, or to place caches that start with particular letters of the alphabet to meet another challenge. The best challenge caches I've seen have addressed this nonsense by limiting the challenge to caches placed before the challenge cache.

 

And then, of course, there are the cache owners who overlook the requirements of their own challenges and let people log them without completing the challenge, which sparks complaints from those who have. And the cachers who find the challenge cache before completing the challenge, sign the log, and then post a found log later on. The ridiculous little issues go on and on. Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more angry threads about it.

 

I would like to see TPTB address these issues, either by recognizing that challenge caches are just ornate ALRs and getting rid of them, or by getting them under control in some way.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I agree, if there is an icon to be made, there should be good guidelines or standards in place. I still would love to see an icon like this done. I just really like challenge caches... but non-lame ones are certainly better.

 

Better standards and/or enforcement of those standards would improve things.

 

You mean, like institute some sort of quality standard or "Wow!" Factor to Challenge Caches?

 

I think we've been down that road before

I don't think a "WOW" factor, or quality of the challenge or the Cache at the end, but just strict rules applied to qualify the Cache for the Icon(like there are for Earthcaches)

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

It looks like at least a few people here would be interested, maybe this should be a feature request(moved to the website section?)

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I'm thinking more along the lines of what good challenge caches already have. For starters, I think that only caches published BEFORE the challenge cache should qualify. That eliminates the sock puppet nonsense and friends placing caches for each other that's been happening around here.

 

That simply doesn't work. The The Jasmer Challenge (Northern California Edition) (GC1GBC1) requires caches after the published date as well as before. Other caches like the Kitsap County Challenge (GC19B6J) require found caches *after* the published date. The reason for this is very simple, someone that has been caching for a while would complete the challenge as soon as they check their GSAK database. Yeah, some of us hide caches for other players, but so what? There were more caches for every one to find. I think you need to rethink your position on this one.

I agree that there's nothing wrong at all with hiding Caches aimed at a particular finder, as long as they are also available for everyone else.

[jholly]

I'm thinking more along the lines of what good challenge caches already have. For starters, I think that only caches published BEFORE the challenge cache should qualify. That eliminates the sock puppet nonsense and friends placing caches for each other that's been happening around here.

 

That simply doesn't work. The The Jasmer Challenge (Northern California Edition) (GC1GBC1) requires caches after the published date as well as before. Other caches like the Kitsap County Challenge (GC19B6J) require found caches *after* the published date. The reason for this is very simple, someone that has been caching for a while would complete the challenge as soon as they check their GSAK database. Yeah, some of us hide caches for other players, but so what? There were more caches for every one to find. I think you need to rethink your position on this one.

 

My area has no lack of caches, but challenge caches are contributing to a decline in cache quality. Lately there have been a rash of sock puppet accounts in this area. These accounts are being used to create caches that fill in rare D/T combinations, or to place caches that start with particular letters of the alphabet to meet another challenge. The best challenge caches I've seen have addressed this nonsense by limiting the challenge to caches placed before the challenge cache.

 

And then, of course, there are the cache owners who overlook the requirements of their own challenges and let people log them without completing the challenge, which sparks complaints from those who have. And the cachers who find the challenge cache before completing the challenge, sign the log, and then post a found log later on. The ridiculous little issues go on and on. Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more angry threads about it.

 

I would like to see TPTB address these issues, either by recognizing that challenge caches are just ornate ALRs and getting rid of them, or by getting them under control in some way.

 

People that like Delorme, county, and more arcane challenges like the Jasmer challenges will not agree with you with getting rid of challange caches. If there are specific problems with specific caches then perhaps an email to contact@geocaching.com might be in order. But the best thing is if they get your undies in a bunch then that is what an ignore list is for. Ignore the challenges and you will feel better.

[+ThePetersTrio]

I'm thinking more along the lines of what good challenge caches already have. For starters, I think that only caches published BEFORE the challenge cache should qualify. That eliminates the sock puppet nonsense and friends placing caches for each other that's been happening around here.

 

That simply doesn't work. The The Jasmer Challenge (Northern California Edition) (GC1GBC1) requires caches after the published date as well as before. Other caches like the Kitsap County Challenge (GC19B6J) require found caches *after* the published date. The reason for this is very simple, someone that has been caching for a while would complete the challenge as soon as they check their GSAK database. Yeah, some of us hide caches for other players, but so what? There were more caches for every one to find. I think you need to rethink your position on this one.

 

My area has no lack of caches, but challenge caches are contributing to a decline in cache quality. Lately there have been a rash of sock puppet accounts in this area. These accounts are being used to create caches that fill in rare D/T combinations, or to place caches that start with particular letters of the alphabet to meet another challenge. The best challenge caches I've seen have addressed this nonsense by limiting the challenge to caches placed before the challenge cache.

 

And then, of course, there are the cache owners who overlook the requirements of their own challenges and let people log them without completing the challenge, which sparks complaints from those who have. And the cachers who find the challenge cache before completing the challenge, sign the log, and then post a found log later on. The ridiculous little issues go on and on. Frankly, I'm surprised there aren't more angry threads about it.

 

I would like to see TPTB address these issues, either by recognizing that challenge caches are just ornate ALRs and getting rid of them, or by getting them under control in some way.

 

People that like Delorme, county, and more arcane challenges like the Jasmer challenges will not agree with you with getting rid of challange caches. If there are specific problems with specific caches then perhaps an email to contact@geocaching.com might be in order. But the best thing is if they get your undies in a bunch then that is what an ignore list is for. Ignore the challenges and you will feel better.

 

I don't know about the whole sock puppet thing but I always thought more caches to hunt for were better than less.

 

If people want to place them for others to assist them along with their quest for a Challenge cache then more power to them IMHO. I have only had the good fortune to complete one Challenge cache so far and I am currently working on several more simultaneously and planning to place one of my own.

 

I see nothing wrong with having a unique icon for them nor with more caches being placed because of them. I'd think Groundspeak would welcome more caches as long as they comply with the listing guidelines.

Edited May 11, 2010 by ThePetersTrio

[+narcissa]

 

People that like Delorme, county, and more arcane challenges like the Jasmer challenges will not agree with you with getting rid of challange caches. If there are specific problems with specific caches then perhaps an email to contact@geocaching.com might be in order. But the best thing is if they get your undies in a bunch then that is what an ignore list is for. Ignore the challenges and you will feel better.

 

I wouldn't say that my underwear is in any way affected by challenge caches and sock puppet accounts, but since this is a public forum and the topic at hand is about challenge caches, I'll continue to express my opinion on the matter.

 

Unfortunately, the many valid points you've made have been undermined by the aggressive tone you've taken. Disagreement about a game is not the end of the world!

Edited May 11, 2010 by narcissa

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Actually the topic at hand was supposed to be whether people would like to see a seperate Icon for challenge caches, not just a generic discussion of Challenge Caches, or underwear. Thanks for getting back on topic.

[+genegene]

Add me in as one who would like the separate icon.

[+briansnat]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

[+GeoGeeBee]

Wouldn't that be nice, and make it easier to figure out where to find the listings?

 

An icon would make it easier to find them. Even better, in my opinion, would be to include a "keyword" field in pocket queries. Then I could search for caches I haven't found, within my state, that have the word "challenge" in the title.

 

This would be more generically useful. One could search out challenge caches, or scouting caches, or many other cache types that don't have their own icon.

[+ChileHead]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

Wouldn't that be nice.

 

The cache part of a challenge cache is irrelevant in most cases. It's just the last place you go after completing the challenge. The challenge cache page itself is just the place you go to tell your story about finding all the other caches in the challenge - not the challenge cache.

[+baloo&bd]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

Moot indeed. The icon won't matter since no one will see them there.

Edited May 11, 2010 by baloo&bd

[+ThePetersTrio]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

 

Can I ask what the rationale for this is? I've been working my butt off to complete several challenges and this decision effectively takes the wind right out of my sails.

[+roziecakes]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

 

Can I ask what the rationale for this is? I've been working my butt off to complete several challenges and this decision effectively takes the wind right out of my sails.

 

I think he's joking...

[+ThePetersTrio]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

 

Can I ask what the rationale for this is? I've been working my butt off to complete several challenges and this decision effectively takes the wind right out of my sails.

 

I think he's joking...

 

I hope you're right! (I did check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st and noted the lack of emoticons that would indicate a tease...)

 

Briansnat, care to clarify here?

[+roziecakes]

 

I hope you're right! (I did check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st and noted the lack of emoticons that would indicate a tease...)

 

Briansnat, care to clarify here?

 

I hope so too, we've done a lot of work toward that DeLorme challenge so far!!

[jholly]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

 

Can I ask what the rationale for this is? I've been working my butt off to complete several challenges and this decision effectively takes the wind right out of my sails.

 

I think he's joking...

 

I hope you're right! (I did check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st and noted the lack of emoticons that would indicate a tease...)

 

Briansnat, care to clarify here?

 

I don't think so. I've heard that when they move challenge caches to Waymarking they are also going make waymarks counters. There is a rumor that a group down in Los Angeles is preparing a power trail of KFC's and Mickey D's.

[+roziecakes]

 

I don't think so. I've heard that when they move challenge caches to Waymarking they are also going make waymarks counters. There is a rumor that a group down in Los Angeles is preparing a power trail of KFC's and Mickey D's.

 

They should make a Starbucks power trail too... then you can stay caffeinated enough to stay up for 24 hours caching and break the world record.

[+briansnat]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

 

Can I ask what the rationale for this is? I've been working my butt off to complete several challenges and this decision effectively takes the wind right out of my sails.

 

I think he's joking...

 

I hope you're right! (I did check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st and noted the lack of emoticons that would indicate a tease...)

 

Briansnat, care to clarify here?

 

He was joking.

[+Lil Devil]

Nice one Brian. That took on a life of it's own pretty quick

[+ThePetersTrio]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

 

Can I ask what the rationale for this is? I've been working my butt off to complete several challenges and this decision effectively takes the wind right out of my sails.

 

I think he's joking...

 

I hope you're right! (I did check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st and noted the lack of emoticons that would indicate a tease...)

 

Briansnat, care to clarify here?

 

He was joking.

 

For goodness sakes man - at least throw in an emoticon or something!! Geez...that'll be 30 lashes with a wet cache log.

[+South Lyon Trekkers]

I like the idea. I posted it two years ago, but it didn't seem to be met with a great reception.

Forum post

[+BulldogBlitz]

i don't like the idea.

 

in fact, i just made 8 sockets and submitted requests to make all icons the same.... because it wasn't fair that there were all these different icons out there.

 

[+Vater_Araignee]

I like the idea. I posted it two years ago, but it didn't seem to be met with a great reception.

Forum post

I didn't read past your post in the link but I can immediately tell you what some of the resistance is in the rest of the thread because of two lines.

This cache type would show completion of the challenge and not necessitate an actual cache whose location could be some distance within the state or country. Since this is a challenge, the completion of the challenge is what would count and not the find of a cache that is to represent the completion.

No physical cache.

Proposal is only for tracking stats.

 

I'm all for challenge caches having their own icon/type, but there needs to be a physical cache.

[+Touchstone]

He was joking.

 

Darn....you had my hopes up there.

 

I kind of like the idea of doing away with all cache icons. The whole issue could be resolved with a handful of attributes

[+briansnat]

It's a moot point. Challenge caches are being moved over to Waymarking effective June 1st.

 

 

Can I ask what the rationale for this is? I've been working my butt off to complete several challenges and this decision effectively takes the wind right out of my sails.

 

I think he's joking...

 

I hope you're right! (I did check the calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1st and noted the lack of emoticons that would indicate a tease...)

 

Briansnat, care to clarify here?

 

He was joking.

 

For goodness sakes man - at least throw in an emoticon or something!! Geez...that'll be 30 lashes with a wet cache log.

 

It's hard to convey dry humor online, but the addition of an emoticon would totally destroy any attempt at dry humor.

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

They should make a Starbucks power trail too... then you can stay caffeinated enough to stay up for 24 hours caching and break the world record.

 

In most larger American cities, Starbucks locations already form a power trail. If you're standing in front of a Starbucks, you can usually see another one down the street. In fact, some of them may be too close for the cache saturation guideline.

[+Vater_Araignee]

 

They should make a Starbucks power trail too... then you can stay caffeinated enough to stay up for 24 hours caching and break the world record.

 

In most larger American cities, Starbucks locations already form a power trail. If you're standing in front of a Starbucks, you can usually see another one down the street. In fact, some of them may be too close for the cache saturation guideline.

I found this one place where there where 4 all on the corners of a crossroad.

I tried to walk to the center to better take in what I saw but passed out when I got there.

When I came to I was being handed a triple shot of espresso with red eye chaser. The clerk said "That will be 3 gold troys and 6 bits silver." somehow I payed it. I slammed the espresso and barfed, it tasted like a thin corn soup loaded with nodoze. "Where the hell is my coffee" I yelled and every one started laughing. "Hasn't been any coffee for 50 years" someone said. "About twenty years after they where the only growers of coffee, their entire crop got wiped out by a mutation." said another. "When do you think your from, twenty 50?" that's when I woke back up in the middle of the street laying in a pool that smelled faintly of corn.

I called their HQ to tell them what I say and as soon as I hung up there was a knock at the door. I opened the door and before I could say a thing I was told that I didn't see what I thought I saw, it was either a reflection of Venus or swamp gas and they left.

A couple day later I decided to go check it out again but one of them was brunt to the ground and the one kitty corner from it was selling Monsanto seed and Roundup.

I'm telling ya, don't mess with Starbuck locations, strange things happen.

[+drfred]

 

They should make a Starbucks power trail too... then you can stay caffeinated enough to stay up for 24 hours caching and break the world record.

 

In most larger American cities, Starbucks locations already form a power trail. If you're standing in front of a Starbucks, you can usually see another one down the street. In fact, some of them may be too close for the cache saturation guideline.

 

I'll bet that Starbucks is a waymark. And probably in 3 different categories!

[+roziecakes]

 

They should make a Starbucks power trail too... then you can stay caffeinated enough to stay up for 24 hours caching and break the world record.

 

In most larger American cities, Starbucks locations already form a power trail. If you're standing in front of a Starbucks, you can usually see another one down the street. In fact, some of them may be too close for the cache saturation guideline.

 

I'll bet that Starbucks is a waymark. And probably in 3 different categories!

 

Hey, I'll bet you're right

 

And yes, Starbucks probably do go over the cache saturation guideline in most cities I would imagine... especially those ones across the street from each other.

[+addisonbr]

From the knowledge base - Callenge Caches.

jholly - thanks for posting this link. I hadn't seen it before and I found it a lot more detailed and enlightening than the section on challenge caches in the guidelines section in the "Requirements / Guidelines" section on the main web site. Appreciate it.