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LouhenSudet

Request for community opinion: GC1CBX7

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Hi folks,

 

we are fairly new to geocaching but this cache struck us as somewhat odd.

On a caching tour, we also approached GC1CBX7.

According to the GPS, the cache is in the hedge next to the cemetary. Log entries of people who found the cache support this impression.

After we determined the likely position, we decided to break off the search because we felt, that creeping in the hedge next to a cemetary is highly inappropiate and disrespectful. Groundspeak guidelines also explicitely mention cemetaries as no-go areas.

What is the opinion of the community? Is a cache in the hedge of a cemetary appropiate or should it be moved?

 

Please keep the discussion in English!

 

Greetings,

Stefan & Anette

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Different countries have different regional guidelines about what is acceptable regarding placing caches in cemeteries.

 

In the UK you are allowed to place a cache within a cemetery or churchyard area if you confirm that you have obtained specific permission from the vicar/priest/church committee. I don't know what the Finnish reviewer's guideline is about this matter. The cache is a couple of years old so it may have been placed before the guidelines were tightened up.

 

MrsB :anicute:

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When hiding this we never thought that someone could find this cache disrespecting or inappropiate.

If we have thought that ,we would have hidden it to somewhere else.

Reason for caches hiding place is simply that we wanted to use regular size container close to that very beautiful church.

In Finland we have lots of caches hidden close to churches and cemetarys.

Caches have been hidden even church walls (behind drainpipes) and (too) many caches have been hidden on those cemetary stonewalls.

There is also multi caches that require walking around cemetary and collecting info from gravestones.

132 visitors have found this and two of them have been Finnish cache reviewers.

Before that noone has thought that there is anything disrespecting on that hiding place.

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I have also found that specific, and some other Finnish church-caches, and I clearly haven´t yet noticed any of them being disrespectful or against the guidelines. I must honestly say that they all give positive attention to our religious community and precious construction history. GC1CBX7 is not actually placed on the burial ground (which is clearly separate from the cacheplace). That specific cache is in the church-area, but the hiding place is not disrespectful. I suppose that in our Evangelical Lutheran Church those cache-placements (that I have found) can only be seen in a positive way of getting people interested of the community itself, and its history as a part of our lives. There might be a difference in the way that Catholic church sees these cache placements, so it is always a good idea to consider regional formalities.

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When hiding this we never thought that someone could find this cache disrespecting or inappropiate.

If we have thought that ,we would have hidden it to somewhere else.

 

Can't see any problem, if religion makes it too difficult to you log it' s easier not to log than change religion.

And thats is ok to everyone. If your religion deny to seek cache for everyone else too, somebody has a problem.

:ph34r:

Edited by EnizBambeniz

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After we determined the likely position, we decided to break off the search because we felt, that creeping in the hedge next to a cemetary is highly inappropiate and disrespectful. Groundspeak guidelines also explicitely mention cemetaries as no-go areas.

 

 

Grounspeak instructions do not mention cemeteries as no-go areas. They only mention on cemeteries is in a sentence: "Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites or cemeteries)". Accordingly, they are speaking on sites sensitive to extra traffic.

 

My personal opinion is that cemeteries are part of cultural hertitage and one should also be able to present them in connection to geocaching. Of course one should not hide a geocache in a cemetery (even though there might be expections), but at least to me hedge around a cemetery is OK. There are a lot of geocaches around cemeteries in Finland and elsewhere and I do not see any reason, why they should not be there.

Edited by Itiq

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After we determined the likely position, we decided to break off the search because we felt, that creeping in the hedge next to a cemetary is highly inappropiate and disrespectful. Groundspeak guidelines also explicitely mention cemetaries as no-go areas.

 

Grounspeak instructions do not mention cemeteries as no-go areas. They only mention on cemeteries is in a sentence: "Caches placed in areas which are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans (examples may include archaeological or historic sites or cemeteries)". Accordingly, they are speaking on sites sensitive to extra traffic.

 

My personal opinion is that cemeteries are part of cultural hertitage and one should also be able to present them in connection to geocaching. Of course one should not hide a geocache in a cemetery (even though there might be expections), but at least to me hedge around a cemetery is OK. There are a lot of geocaches around cemeteries in Finland and elsewhere and I do not see any reason, why they should not be there.

 

My personal opinion is, that cemeteries that are still actively used i.e. there are still burials done or around us are still living persons directly related to the graved ones, should NOT be used for geocaching or other hobbies. There are people visiting the grave yard and remembering their beloved parents, child etc. and it is not fair to these people to play any games or sports in these areas. Just for comparison, is it OK to make an orienteering control point to cemetery? Is it OK to make a jogging or marathon route through cemetery? Is it OK to play petanque in the area?

 

Perhaps this is a cultural question. To me it is OK to create a cache close to church, especially if there is a permission from some church officials and it is also OK to create a cache outside fence of any cemetery however preferably still so far that the logging of the cache can be done without any risk of disturbance to people visiting the cemetery. Also cemeteries that have not been used for ~80-100 years and are more a nice quiet parks than active cemeteries could be used delicately for geocaching.

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nothing wrong with Cemetery caches, there is a whole series of them in my area called "Bone-Yard Series"

 

sometimes there are beautiful churches close to the cemeteries, and although i am not religious, i do appreciate the architecture, other times it a very old cemetery, whatever the situation as long as you watch your step and be respectful to those resting there, i see no problem

 

i don't find cemeteries to be creepy, i find them very peaceful

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I have to say, I am not at all a religious person but I find it very important to respect the believes and needs of others. I also do respect very much people which have sacrificed a lot to their country.

 

My general opinion is that a cache somewhere close to a cemetary or at the fence (outside) is quite ok. Churches, especially with permission of the local church officials, are fine.

 

This cache seems to be in the hedge of the cemetary and if the coordinates and my GPS are correct, quite close to the war memorial.

 

Crawling in a hedge of the cemetary appeared already quite awkward to me and my fiancé (she is a Finn - also not a really religious one) but close to the war memorial which is something like 1,5 - 2m from the hedge was for me personnally well over the line.

 

As a German living in Finnland, I might have a somewhat limited insight in the deeper aspects of the culture. I already learned that lots of things are not seen too strictly here but I understood so far that the Finns are really serious about their fallens - which I as a former soldier support and agree to 110%.

 

But I was very interested in learning how the Finnish cacher community sees that topic.

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I can recall the details while looking for this cache. Like most caches around churches, this requires some thoughts for proper means to look for it and therefore this can not be found during certain hours of some days. Of course this applies to all caches in urban or other public areas to avoid the audience, but this environment adds some need for self control. Anyhow, these things are an essential part of this hobby and sometimes I have met the situation I need to stop looking for some cache due to the conflict between the location and existing situation. Here I had the opportunity to find the container but if I had been here at 10 AM on Sunday I would have let it be (and returned some other time). As long as we remember how to behave, the location is more or less part of the D -rate of the cache.

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When 'm dead, you have my permission to place a cache right on the grave. I want people to visit me, and i want people to have fun around my grave.

 

In my opinion these caches are fine as long as you don't destroy property or turn over grave stones.

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We have been caching for almost a year here in Finland, so have done many church and memorial caches.

Mr Nosfera is English and Mrs Nosfera is Finnish.

So far we have not found any of these types of cache locations to be disrespectful in any way, if anything we find them extremely respectful. We do not just add a cache to our find list, we take time to read the cache description, this often outlines why the cache has been placed in the location and adds to our experience.

The caches are often placed with a great deal of respect in mind, be it respect for the fallen during conflict, or respect for the architecture, then again maybe respect for the community. We believe the finder brings their own type of respect to the place when searching the cache. You don't go just digging around, (although under Groundspeak guide lines caches should not be buried).

If it was not for some of these caches we would not have seen some of the most beautiful architecture and scenery that we have, also we would not have visited some of the places that we have, or found out about some of the rich history in this country (yes even Mrs Nosfera has learnt some things about her native country).

We thank the Finnish cachers for enriching our lives with well placed caches.

 

Some of the locations can be seen in our goecaching blog (sorry it is all in English, but there are lots of pictures for non English readers).

 

Nosfera

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