Jump to content

Download Caches as Points-Of-Interest?


datastorage

Recommended Posts

Hi there!

 

The idea is that you have all caches inside your GPS or navi. Of course, this doesn't really work for unknown or multi caches as the memory footprint is very high. However, at least for traditional caches this should be possible as all you need are coordinates (and maybe a hint).

 

Somebody already made this possible. There seems to be a list of the coordinates of all Swiss caches as a list of POIs.

 

http://gc.etherlink.ch/stats/gclogin/login.php

 

I am searching for something similar for German caches!

 

Best thing would be If I could just download the POIs from geocaching.com. Mind you, I'd be happy to pay for this service.

Link to comment

Yeah... looks a little dodgy. Plus wouldn't you just want to use GSAK and export to your devices POI format. That's all I did. Create 3 filters, one for all found caches, one for not found of type mystery/unknown and one for not found not mystery. Write a macro that load each filter, saves the poi file (I have a tomtom) and use a different icon for each. Now when I am on my car, I see the geocache icon for ones I haven't found, a gray scale for the ones I have, and a question mark for the mystery ones (that way I don't try to get them when I don't have access to the website to see the puzzle).

Link to comment
Dodgy, maybe, but if it gives you access to some information that geocaching.com does not offer it might be worth it.

Does it offer some information that geocaching.com does not? Nothing makes it worth it to give away your password. It could be a breach of TOU as well - you're giving them access to your GPX, etc. Are they screen scraping? I can't read the language (German?) so I can't say for sure. I'm pretty sure, though, that any Groundspeak approved site will not ask you for your password.

Does GSAK run on Apple Macs?

Only in a virtual machine, or Boot Camp. But if all you want are the coordinates, just feed the GPX you receive from your pocket query directly into Garmin POI Loader. You won't get all the hints and other good stuff. I'm still toying with the idea of writing a standalone app that does that, but (1) anyone who wants to do it on Windows already uses GSAK to do it and (2) I don't have an OS X machine to write it for the Mac folks. Writing a web version requires a host to run it on, and Groundspeak approval so that you can send me your GPX for crunching.

Link to comment

BabelFish translation of the login page:

 

"To examine the Logindaten only for it uses the Member status.

 

All Cache data in the data base are property of Groundspeak (geocaching.com) and may according to customs agreement (TERM OF USE AGREEMENT) not be published. To further-admit me from Groundspeak permits these data of mittles this Member status Check's at Premium Member."

 

I'm not sure what to make of it. But it doesn't exactly tell me what it's doing.

Link to comment
Dodgy, maybe, but if it gives you access to some information that geocaching.com does not offer it might be worth it.
If they do some extensive scraping of the website using your account, then you can say good-bye to your account.

 

Does GSAK run on Apple Macs?
GSAK is Windows software; if your Mac runs Windows software (many do) then you can use it. You might start your investigation of this topic here.
Link to comment

Sharing of data obtained through pocket queries is not permitted. Aggregating cache data through screen scraping is not permitted.

 

Ordinarily I would have hidden this thread but I'd rather leave it here for Groundspeak to see, in the hopes that they might take action to shut down the rogue website.

Link to comment

I'm not sure what to make of it. But it doesn't exactly tell me what it's doing.

 

The first part says, you have to login to verify, that you are a premium member. All cache data in the database is property of Groundspeak and may not be published according to their TOU.

 

The last sentence is interesting: "I have permission from Groundspeak to make the cache data available to premium members only using the member check above.". An official statement of a Groundspeak lackey would be nice.

 

Edit: Just looked up the username: He isn't premium member himself but states to have permission to publish cache data to premium members? Where does he get the cache data from? Really strange.

Edited by Carsten
Link to comment
Does GSAK run on Macintosh?
YES. GSAK runs on Intel-based Macs using Codeweaver's Crossover to emulate Windows.

 

You could also run a "real" Windows installation on your Mac in a virtual machine or Bootcamp as someone else suggested, but Crossover is a lot less overhead.

Edited by lee_rimar
Link to comment
All cache data in the database is property of Groundspeak and may not be published according to their TOU.
That's actually not true.

 

You aren't allowed to redistribute content you get out of Groundspeak's database, but Groundspeak is not the owner of that content. Point 6 of the TOU reads:

All comments, articles, tutorials, screenshots, pictures, graphics, tools, downloads, and all other materials submitted to Groundspeak in connection with the Site or available through the Site (collectively, "Submissions") remain the property and copyright of the original author.

Which is why a CO can post his caches on websites other than this one. Several of the caches nearest to my home are listed on another site with identical descriptions, and that's allowed.

 

Groundspeak doesn't want you abusing their systems for your own gain, which is the reason for point 5 of the TOU.

Link to comment

The Garmin POI Loader will accept GPX files and upload the caches to your GPS as POIs.

 

So I don't understand the need for another tool or website? :P

 

Edit to add link.

 

Been a while since I've dealt with POIs and I've never done it for my Colorado... the Garmin POI loader will accept GPX files and upload them as a POI... has it been upgraded to include any GPX information on the cache(s) or is it only the location information still?

Link to comment
All cache data in the database is property of Groundspeak and may not be published according to their TOU.
That's actually not true.

 

I was just translating the mentioned login page, not literally but trying to give back the content.

Link to comment

Ordinarily I would have hidden this thread but I'd rather leave it here for Groundspeak to see, in the hopes that they might take action to shut down the rogue website.

 

Sorry to be so frank but I don't get this: why would you want to hide this thread? We are discussing a great idea. The idea is that you have all caches inside your GPS. For a lot of GPS systems this could be accomplished using POIs - at least for traditional caches, I guess.

 

This is a dream to come true for every geocacher - i can't see anything wrong with it. I hope Groundspeak will offer this download in the near future.

 

As I said, I am willing to pay Groundspeak for this service.

Link to comment

Ordinarily I would have hidden this thread but I'd rather leave it here for Groundspeak to see, in the hopes that they might take action to shut down the rogue website.

 

Sorry to be so frank but I don't get this: why would you want to hide this thread? We are discussing a great idea.

Because :

A) The site referenced most likely violates the TOU of geocaching.com

:D The site referenced encourages you to give them your password for geocaching.com. This might violate the TOU, but even if it doesn't, it's a colossally stupid idea to give someone you don't know any username/password combination for another site.

Link to comment

I would want to hide this thread because I've volunteered to be a forum moderator. One of my duties is to deal with discussions of things that are contrary to Groundspeak's terms of use. This certainly appears to be such a subject.

Link to comment
We are discussing a great idea. The idea is that you have all caches inside your GPS. For a lot of GPS systems this could be accomplished using POIs - at least for traditional caches, I guess.

 

This is a dream to come true for every geocacher - i can't see anything wrong with it. I hope Groundspeak will offer this download in the near future.

 

As I said, I am willing to pay Groundspeak for this service.

It's a bad idea because it requires you to give away your password.

 

I'm still not sure what it is the site does for you. If you can describe it, we can tell you of a better way of accomplishing it.

 

I already have about 4000 geocaches on my Nuvi as POI, using GSAK and a macro. I can do it for my Oregon and eTrex too if I want, with much more control than a website can give me.

Link to comment

I would want to hide this thread because I've volunteered to be a forum moderator. One of my duties is to deal with discussions of things that are contrary to Groundspeak's terms of use. This certainly appears to be such a subject.

Sorry to be mistaken. Of course the idea is to have Groundspeak offer this service to Premium Users. As I wrote in the opening posting: best thing would be If I could just download the POIs from geocaching.com. :D

 

The website I posted was merely given as examle what service I'd like Groundspeak to offer. :)

Link to comment

OK, I give up. I seem to have trouble getting my question across, which is : what exactly does this site provide?

 

From the description in this thread, it seems to allow you to download a POI file from their site of all the geocaches of an area.

From what I've gathered, the site does exactly what you're doing with GSAK & a macro - convert caches to POIs which can be loaded into your Garmin devices.

 

Only the site is doing it by scraping the data from geocaching.com using your credentials, instead of feeding off a GPX file or GSAK database.

Link to comment
Why would you need a site to do that for you when you can very easily do it yourself?

If it is indeed scraping (which I can't verify since there is no way I'm going to give up my password) then you won't need to be a premium member to get the info. But Groundspeak does not seem concerned about this site to shut down the thread - or maybe they're busy with something else.

Link to comment

Easy. If you become a Premium Member, you can download the caches with the Pocket Query system. And then you can use GSAK and the appropriate macros to convert them easily to POIs if that's what you looking to do.

Setting up PQs, changing them whenever you think you might travel somewhere else, installing GSAK and relevant macros, creating mail accounts for receiving PQs, running GSAK to update database whenever needed...that's what I call "complicated" or "intricate".

 

Easy would be as follows:

- Use the iPhone app to geolocate yourself and have the caches near you displayed.

- Use Geomate Junior and the integrated cache database.

...or maybe in the future...:)

- Login to gc.com, define a pocket query with all traditional caches limited to your country, click on the "download as POI" link and then start POI Loader to upload the zillions of POIs to your GPS device.

Edited by datastorage
Link to comment

For somebody who hasn't logged any caches, why the interest in downloading zillions of caches? If you're willing to pay to download POIs, why not become a Premium Member and try pocket queries? I can download 5000 caches with the full description in a few minutes.

Link to comment

OK, I give up. I seem to have trouble getting my question across, which is : what exactly does this site provide?

 

From the description in this thread, it seems to allow you to download a POI file from their site of all the geocaches of an area.

 

For all interested:

That site basically provides statistics about caches in Switzerland and about Swiss cachers (ie. who found how many, where, when, generates found maps etc.).

 

It also allows to download all caches in Switzerland as a GPX or as a POI file. As this would normally be against the gc.com TOU, I think the guy who created it has an agreement with gc that he can only provide this data to Premium members. He uses the account login data to check this directly on gc.com.

 

Wether or not you want to trust him with your login is of course up to you, but in Switzerland he's known and trusted, his site has been around for ages and many people use it.

 

I don't know exactly how he gets the data from gc but I'm pretty sure it's not scraping, gc.com would have shut him down years ago. I would assume he has a set of PQ's set up that he populates the data with (in Switzerland that's quite easy with currently just under 10.000 caches). So basically he just provides an easier way for Swiss Premium members to get that data, nothing they wouldn't be able to do without him, just making life a bit easier...

 

Of course all that is only useful for people in Switzerland.

 

Hope this clears up some of the questions :laughing:

 

Edit to say: for any more questions I'd suggest to check with the Swiss reviewers, they certainly know more about this...

 

Btw I'm not sure about the current state of the site, it seems to have stopped updating this January... I'm not currently in Switzerland so I haven't been using it recently and don't know what's wrong.

Edited by luzian
Link to comment
That site basically provides statistics about caches in Switzerland and about Swiss cachers (ie. who found how many, where, when, generates found maps etc.).

 

It also allows to download all caches in Switzerland as a GPX or as a POI file. As this would normally be against the gc.com TOU, I think the guy who created it has an agreement with gc that he can only provide this data to Premium members. He uses the account login data to check this directly on gc.com.

The fact that the mods haven't shut down this thread or Groundspeak shut down his site has got to mean he has the blessings of Groundspeak.

 

Thanks for the information.

Link to comment
The fact that the mods haven't shut down this thread or Groundspeak shut down his site has got to mean he has the blessings of Groundspeak.

 

Sorry, but I won't believe it until one of the lackeys confirms it.

Since the data doesn't matter to me, and since I'm not giving my password to another site, approved or not by Groundspeak, I'm not going to worry about it. If there's any infringement it is up to Groundspeak to prosecute.

 

I'm curious though - why would the site have special dispensation to redistribute data that's at the very core of Groundspeak's business?

Link to comment
The fact that the mods haven't shut down this thread or Groundspeak shut down his site has got to mean he has the blessings of Groundspeak.

 

Sorry, but I won't believe it until one of the lackeys confirms it.

I think it's more likely one or both of the following:

 

1) The TOU are unenforceable in Switzerland (there may be Swiss law that trumps whatever a website says)

 

2) Groundspeak isn't interested in spending the money on legal representation & everything related to it to go after this site since it's hosted in a foreign country with a relatively small number of caches (if in fact it really is just Swiss caches it handles).

Link to comment
The fact that the mods haven't shut down this thread or Groundspeak shut down his site has got to mean he has the blessings of Groundspeak.

 

Sorry, but I won't believe it until one of the lackeys confirms it.

I think it's more likely one or both of the following:

 

1) The TOU are unenforceable in Switzerland (there may be Swiss law that trumps whatever a website says)

 

2) Groundspeak isn't interested in spending the money on legal representation & everything related to it to go after this site since it's hosted in a foreign country with a relatively small number of caches (if in fact it really is just Swiss caches it handles).

Even if it is unenforceable in Switzerland, GS could remove references to the site in this post.

Link to comment

The TOU are unenforceable in Switzerland (there may be Swiss law that trumps whatever a website says)

:) Seems you've heared too much about the Swiss banking secrecy.

Nahh...

The Swiss laws are in good condition (not too different from the US, just a bit more democratic :laughing:)

and this site is flawless by honest people.

 

As far as I remember it is pretty old, and on the first hand, it created nice statistics and maps for Switzerland.

If I remember right there was kind of agreement to do so - but I don't know details.

 

Please realise, that the data does NOT contain the cache descriptions (-> don't compare with pqs),

and currently the data isn't updated (since Jan 18th).

 

I don't know any further details, but I know that there are honest people behind it. I doubt if they read this forum.

So just relax, enjoy the game and what we have, and don't mistrust the world outside US.

There are beautiful geocaches waiting for you in the most beautiful part of the world :laughing:

 

All the best from someone living there.

Link to comment

You know what happened to a German webpage offering POIs for download? Have a look here (just need to read the first post) http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=227905

 

And you realise that this hasn't happened for the Swiss site in question, even though the site has been running for several years.. you don't think Groundspeak would have shut them down too if they didn't have an agreement?

 

And re-read the post you linked...

quote ...purpose of providing premium member services to non-premium members

This might be the essential difference, as the site in question only allows premium members to download the data. I assume the login/premium membership check was a condition of Groundspeak in the agreement with the site owner...

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...