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AmishHacker

Do people normally seek out benchmarks that have already been found? Do you do it?

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Sure! Its the hunt! I frequently have looked for Bm's already found. The only advantage I have is that I know for sure that it is there. Many times the descriptin of the area makes me want to see it.

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I don't look for them if they've been found by a geocacher already. An exception is when I'm on vacation or business travel and want to pick up an easy one or two, but even then I prefer to get a first-find.

 

A significant part of the challenge of benchmark hunting is realizing that what you're looking for might not be there or might not be findable. With a recently found one, that part of the challenge has been removed.

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When I go into an area to hunt BMs, I prepare my sheets based on the NGS descriptions and omit any gc.com finder info. That way, I'm looking without any knowledge of previous finds. And yes, I log whatever I find, or not.

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Unlike some others, I don't purposely avoid previously-loggged benchmarks. While there may be greater pleasure in a virgin find, I also get satisfaction in learning more about the stuff in my environment, even if someone else has been there first.

 

Anyway, there have been occasions when I have been unable (dummy!) to find a mark that has already been logged - and I have also found marks labeled as unfound. I don't consider it cheating to know (via a log entry) that the benchmark is there, since the same sort of info is on the datasheets I take with me.

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There are some benchmarks which have been logged by eight or nine people, and there is nothing wrong with joining in. However I don't upload photos of such a site, if other people have already sent in photos, unless I believe that my pictures are clearer or add something not seen in other people's pictures. The same goes for the description. It helps to describe the location, the way it looks today, especially if the data sheet refers to landmarks that are no longer there.

 

Finding benchmarks that someone else has already found seems trivial, but sometimes it is a refreshing change after an unproductive day of hunting. When you hunt for a mark that hasn't been logged by someone on Geocaching, the chances of finding it are about 30 percent. At least that has been my experience.

 

You may also find that nearly all of the easy ones have been found and reported, at least in big cities. Many of the ones that remain unexplored (in Dallas - Fort Worth) are in parts of town where (I perceive) nobody wants to go, or in areas that are off limits to the public.

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In my part of the country, there are so many that haven't been found (and I seem to be the only one looking) that I wouldn't bother visiting one already logged.

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It depends. If it is in an area that I am traveling to and I will be on vacation with some time to look, yes. If it is an obscure or different mark, yes. If it is just something boring. no!

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We currently have a goal to eventually visit all of the benchmarks in our state that we can reasonably get to. Although we prefer first to find, we don't hesitate to log one others found.

 

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes

On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:

"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --

"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

 

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898

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AE5D writes:

quote:
You may also find that nearly all of the easy ones have been found and reported, at least in big cities. Many of the ones that remain unexplored (in Dallas - Fort Worth) are in parts of town where (I perceive) nobody wants to go, or in areas that are off limits to the public.

 

In the nation's capital, there certainly are many marks in non-public locations (the White House, for example, has many). But recently I decided to search for some marks in Southeast Washington where, frankly, few middle class white folks ever venture. My midday trip was totally unremarkable, I did recover several marks, and - unlike other, more prosperous areas - there has been little of the development that tends to wipe out benchmarks.

 

Use caution in your urban explorations - mornings are probably best, and be alert to your surroundings - but don't automatically rule out visits to unfamiliar parts of town with bad reputations.

 

<political rant>

Also, with right-wing loonies running the country, it's good to be reminded of the kinds of lives led by people who won't benefit from insane tax cuts that benefit the richest Republican donors at the expense of our ability to care for our less fortunate neighbors and of the fiscal solvency of our country.

</political rant>

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I do seek out ones that have not been found before, but I will not pass up looking for an already found BM either.

I agree that if it has already been found and pics are already posted, I would not post more pics unless you have taken some that shows alittle more detail or different angle.

As long as you are having fun looking what does it matter if it has already been found.

 

mustanglx

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I like them all, found and not found, but there is that special feeling when you are the first or a very unsual find..............JOE

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I live in an urban area with other active benchmark searchers. I have visited many marks that were already logged in order to (almost) complete my city/county political subdivision (Found, DNF or Note). Now I am attempting the same thing in the adjoining political subdivision. Also as others have mentioned, when visiting out of town I make up a list to search for and include both found and not found marks. And last weekend I could not find a disk that another GeoCacher had found within the past year. So previously found ones can still challenge me. icon_smile.gif

 

Everybody loves benchmarks more! icon_smile.gif

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It doesn't particularly matter to me if it's been found by someone else or not... I haven't found it yet. In my area, I'm the only active benchmark hunter so it's not really an issue anyway. There are some marks I've sought out after others have found it just to take and post a picture or two of the mark, because the other finders have not (that's just my little O.C.D. taking over.) There are also a few on my 'to find' list because the finder logged them as found after finding only the witness posts, not the benchmarks.

 

Keep on Caching! (and Benchmarking!)

- Kewaneh

 

[This message was edited by Kewaneh & Shark on September 25, 2003 at 10:26 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Kewaneh & Shark:

There are also a few on my 'to find' list because the finder logged them as found after finding only the witness posts, not the benchmarks.


Second this. In my area, some finds are in fact RM-only observations, others are the 'yeah, I've been there last year' reports which say nothing about the BM condition, and yet others are confusing two BMs located close to one another. And on top of that there are finds by Electric Shavers, these 'yippee the previous would-be finder had no clue and so do we' icon_wink.gif

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CS2858 is an example of a mis-identified radio tower, and I'd like to post a note saying that the report is in error, but I don't want to hurt someone's feelings and get flamed for it.

 

The ''KVP'' tower was 212 feet tall, and was 75 feet south of another tower which is 560 feet tall. I was in the area yesterday, and saw that there is only one tower at that site and it is the 560-foot backup tower for WRR, which is the tower in the photo on the Geocaching page for CS2858.

 

I saw another example recently (but I can't remember the PID) in which a tubular cell phone tower was shown in the picture, but the benchmark was supposed to have been a 1930's aircraft navigation beacon.

 

There should be a way to challenge someone else's findings, so that bogus sightings can be removed from the database.

 

All this would be off-topic except to say that you can't be absolutely sure that a benchmark has been found by someone else, even if it is listed as ''Found''.

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AE5D -

 

The best thing you can do when you find that a benchmark has been mis-identified is to log it correctly with the correct picture, and, if you think it's prudent, an explanation as to why the earlier log is incorrect. I doubt that anyone's feelings would get hurt and you shouldn't be flamed for doing something correctly.

 

Keep on Caching! (and Benchmarking!)

- Kewaneh

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1. For what it's worth, I hunt for marks that have already been found - my approach is to survey all the accessible marks in a particular geographic area. I admit, however, that I am less enthusiastic regarding previously-found marks. I think it is good to hunt for previously found marks. Like just about everybody else, I have failed to find marks that others have found, I have determined that others' finds have been invalid, and have had one or two of my finds invalidated by other hunters. It all adds to the body of knowledge.

2. I don't think anyone would be terribly offended if another benchmark hunter determined that his or her logged find was invalid (say, a RM incorrectly logged as the Mark). Mr. Magoo got me on one and I've gotten one or two other hunters on their incorrect finds. It's proper to correct an incorrect find. It all adds to the body of knowledge.

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quote:
Originally posted by seventhings:

2. I don't think anyone would be terribly offended if another benchmark hunter determined that his or her logged find was invalid (say, a RM incorrectly logged as the Mark). It's proper to correct an incorrect find. It all adds to the body of knowledge.


 

But on the other hand, someone has the ability to delete entries that they feel are incorrect. I started with a RM that I listed as being the BM but later found the BM and made comments about my error and made a correction. Someone deleted my earlier entries and pictures that adds confussion to the following entries. THAT OFFENDS ME!

 

I also have found RMs back east that are listed with their own PIDs. Are we looking for BMs only or PIDs? And if the BM has RMs without their own PIDs, do we stop with only the BM or do we try to do a thorough job and find all the other associated marks?

 

The rules here need a lot of defining and whoever has the authority to delete entries should contact the log author before deleting their entry!

 

1950 Surveyor

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quote:
Originally posted by Colorado Papa:

But on the other hand, someone has the ability to delete entries that they feel are incorrect. I started with a RM that I listed as being the BM but later found the BM and made comments about my error and made a correction. Someone deleted my earlier entries and pictures that adds confussion to the following entries. _THAT OFFENDS ME!_

 

I also have found RMs back east that are listed with their own PIDs. Are we looking for BMs only or PIDs? And if the BM has RMs without their own PIDs, do we stop with only the BM or do we try to do a thorough job and find all the other associated marks?

 

The rules here need a lot of defining and whoever has the authority to delete entries should contact the log author before deleting their entry!

 

1950 Surveyor


 

I find it amazing that someone:

a. has the ability to delete someone else's BM log.

b. that they use it, apparently indescrimately.

 

I have seen issues raised in the forums about cache logs being deleted without notification to the author. But for caches, the cache owner has that ability. Who can do it for benchmarks? If we had some sort of organized ability (i.e. some sort of benchmark administor), perhaps we could enforce some standards. But then, do we want standards?

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quote:
Originally posted by RogBarn:

Who can do it for benchmarks? If we had some sort of organized ability (i.e. some sort of benchmark administor), perhaps we could enforce some standards. But then, do we want standards?


 

Do we KNOW that someone can delete other people's benchmark logs? I would be surprised that Jeremy et. al. would even take the time to do that.

 

(And "no", I don't think we want enforced standards. If you think someone has misreported, add a note.)

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there are a lot of RMs in my area that have their own PID. I'm guessing that the way the GC database is set up that the total count is every unique PID. So, I search for RMs. However, I also will search for RMs that are only referenced on a BM datasheet, for completeness, mainly because I will also submit an NGS recovery entry if there is any substantial change in condition or environs. (or if a mark hasn't been recovered in 10 years or more...)

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1. Re my example of an invalid find, above, (say, a RM incorrectly logged as the Mark), I should have been more clear and said (say, an RM that has no PID incorrectly logged as the Mark that has a PID).

2. Also, to be more clear, when I said that a subsequent benchmark hunter should <<correct>> a previous hunter's invalid find, I certainly did not mean that the original post should be deleted by the second hunter (if that's possible, which it shouldn't be). I meant that the second hunter should post a NOT FOUND or NOTE that describes why the previously posted find was incorrect. (Like, say, the spire on the red brick church described in 1933 was replaced by a brown stone church of the same name in 1958 three-tenths of a mile north of the location described in 1933).

7

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1. Re my example of an invalid find, above, (say, a RM incorrectly logged as the Mark), I should have been more clear and said (say, an RM that has no PID incorrectly logged as the Mark that has a PID).

2. Also, to be more clear, when I said that a subsequent benchmark hunter should <<correct>> a previous hunter's invalid find, I certainly did not mean that the original post should be deleted by the second hunter (if that's possible, which it shouldn't be). I meant that the second hunter should post a NOT FOUND or NOTE that describes why the previously posted find was incorrect. (Like, say, the spire on the red brick church described in 1933 was replaced by a brown stone church of the same name in 1958 three-tenths of a mile north of the location described in 1933).

7

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1. Re my example of an invalid find, above, (say, a RM incorrectly logged as the Mark), I should have been more clear and said (say, an RM that has no PID incorrectly logged as the Mark that has a PID).

2. Also, to be more clear, when I said that a subsequent benchmark hunter should <<correct>> a previous hunter's invalid find, I certainly did not mean that the original post should be deleted by the second hunter (if that's possible, which it shouldn't be). I meant that the second hunter should post a NOT FOUND or NOTE that describes why the previously posted find was incorrect. (Like, say, the spire on the red brick church described in 1933 was replaced by a brown stone church of the same name in 1958 three-tenths of a mile north of the location described in 1933).

7

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quote:
Originally posted by photosaurus:

I'v only done a few benchmarks, and I don't know what an RM is. Would someone please tell me?


 

An RM is a Reference Mark. When a triangulation station is placed (and probably for others, but tri-stations are usually where I've seen them) several other markers are placed that, if the primary marker is missing or destroyed, will allow a surveyor to reset the mark. Usually I've found 2-3 RMs, plus an azimuth mark, and many times there is mention of an underground mark (which I've never seen nor have I found any descriptions of how to locate). Some BMs were RMs that were redesignated when the original BM was destroyed, too.

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icon_eek.gif Somebody keep me from looking at bridges and spillways and the likes! I need to keep my eyes on the drive! Yes, I log whatever I find. And by the way, what if I find one and can't find the listing on geocaching.com?

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