I Hope I Can Recover This 1887 Mark

[+jeff35080]

To date, I have recovered 78 benchmarks in my local area. Today I discovered one in the database that dates back to 1887. I have become obsessed with recovering this marker. Today I drove to the general area of the mark and got within about 200' of where the mark should be, but the mark is now located on private property. The mark is an old beer bottle that was set in the ground that was later covered with a concrete block and and a disk. I truly believe that the original mark (the beer bottle) is still in its original location. The mark was recovered two or three times with its last recovery in 1971. Oddly enough, even though things have changed quite a bit in this area over the past few years, the description to the mark is quite accurate. The mark I am seeking is DH2455 ( http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=dh2455 ). The dim woods road mentioned in the descriptions now has the driveway of a house located on it, but the area where the mark should be appears to be untouched

 

I have written a letter that I will be dropping-off at the house located on the property and would like to know if everyone thinks this is acceptable or if you have any suggestions to be included in the letter. If I should be lucky enough to recover this historic mark, should I contact a local surveyor or possibly someone within the state goverment due to its history? The area in which the mark is located saw a lot of historic events during the Civil War and if it's still there, I feel as if it should be documented somewhere along with the NGS database. Here's a copy of the letter I am giving to the property owner:

 

April 16, 2003

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

 

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Jeff Johns. I have lived in Shelby County since the age of 16, moving here with my parents from the Birmingham area in 1985. I currently own a home and reside in Helena with my two children, ages 8 and 12. I have always been interested in the history of our county and of our state and consider myself an amateur historian.

 

Over the past year or so, I have been involved in documenting and recovering historical markers placed by surveyors that date back to the Civil War era. Professional surveyors know these marks as benchmarks. If it were not for these marks, that go mainly unknown and unnoticed by the general public, there would be no way for surveyors to accurately perform important surveys such as determining where our land boundaries lie. There are approximately 750,000 of these important marks that are scattered throughout the United States. The National Geodetic Survey and Coast Geodetic Survey of the United States mainly placed these marks in the early 1900’s, although many of these marks are more modern and have been set by government agencies such as the Alabama State Highway Department in modern times. Along with these modern marks, are those that were placed prior to the 1900’s and hold part of our country’s history by their placement. These markers (benchmarks) can range from a simple cross (X-shaped mark) chiseled into a rock, to brass disks that are attached to bridges and similar structures.

 

As I’m sure you realize, Shelby County, has seen an enormous growth over the past decade and many of our historic locations have been destroyed and lost forever. As you may know, Columbiana, is rich in history that dates back to the days of the Civil War and even earlier. Through my research, I believe that I have discovered a very historical surveying benchmark that lies in the wooded area on the hill behind your home. This mark dates back to 1887. This is undoubtedly one of the oldest benchmarks in the entire State of Alabama. To date, I have documented 78 of these important surveying benchmarks, the oldest of which is dated 1934 and is located near Highway 11 in Pelham. To document these benchmarks, I simply locate the mark, measure its coordinates with a handheld GPSr (GPS receiver) and take several digital photographs of the benchmark. Once I have the exact coordinates and digital photographs of these important benchmarks, I report my discovery of the mark to the National Geodetic Survey (NGS) database, which is now maintained by the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). You may recognize NOAA since this is the governmental agency that supplies us with weather information. I have included a copy of a report to the NGS for your review. You can see on the recovery notes that I recovered it by my initials (JAJ) in the latest recovery logs.

 

As I stated earlier, I am a property owner here in Shelby County and respect the rights associated with such ownership. Because I respect these rights, I am respectfully asking your permission to search the wooded area on the mountain located behind your home. I would be more than happy to have you accompany me on my quest to locate this historic marker or would be happy to show it to you once I find it or to report to you the fact that I could not locate it. I will cause no damage to any property or to the landscape. I simply would like to be able to document this historic mark and derive accurate coordinates of it and to take a few digital pictures of it. If you so desire, I would be happy to leave a copy of my driver license information with you while I search for this historic mark or any other information that you may desire.

 

I dare say that there are very few property owners here in the State that may have such a historic marker on their property and it is something of which you can be very proud. I sincerely hope that you will allow me access to the wooded area behind your home to find this valuable piece of history. I can be reached via phone from 8am to 4pm during the week at my work number here, via cell phone at my cell phone number here, via my home telephone at my home number here, via fax at my fax number here or via email at myemail@address here

 

Respectfully,

 

Jeff Johns

 

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

[+Black Dog Trackers]

This looks like a great adventure! Hopefully the landowner will be interested. You might consider changing the wording in your letter about the example NGS report to make it clear that it is for a different marker.

 

Be sure when you're up there to look for station COOSA only 62 feet away. It should be an interesting hunt as well, with 3 reference mark disks to find and photograph along with it.

 

There are minor mysteries here because the 1969 description mentions a witness post, but the 1971 description doesn't. Also, the disk is stamped 1937 and 1887, but there is no 1937 record and the 1939 record doesn't mention a disk.

[+jeff35080]

Oh yes, I am going to search for that one and also the airway beacon... I might even find one of those big concrete arrows

 

Also, what is confusing to me is that original description only mentions the beer bottle then in later recoveries I start seeing a disk being mentioned, but I don't see where the actual disk was monumented. Did I miss something with this?

 

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

[+GrizzlyJohn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeff35080:

The area in which the mark is located saw a lot of historic events during the Civil War ...

<snip>

...Over the past year or so, I have been involved in documenting and recovering historical markers placed by surveyors that date back to the Civil War era.

---

I think that would be a great find if you can get there and if it is still there. But I don't really know if I would call it Civil War era. The War of Northern Aggression ended 22 years prior to this mark being placed.

[Z15]

quote:

---

DH2455 STATION RECOVERY (1939)

DH2455

DH2455''RECOVERY NOTE BY ALABAMA GEODETIC SURVEY 1939 (APR)

DH2455''R.E. BUTLER, DIVISION ENGINEER, ALABAMA GEODETIC SURVEY,

DH2455''BIRINGHAM, ALA., RECOVERED THE STATION, AND PLACED A BLOCK OF

DH2455''CONCRETE OVER THE BOTTLE LETTING IT PROJECT ABOUT 3 INCHES ABOVE

DH2455''GROUND AS A MARKER. REFERENCE MARKS WERE NOT FOUND.

---

[+jeff35080]

Yes, I see that info, but it doesn't state that there was disk in the concrete. I am willing to bet that it was also recovered in 1937 and was not documented with the NGS.

 

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

[+Gaddiel]

I like the tone of your letter of request. Very informative and simple. Would you mind if we modify it and use it for our own benchmarking property-access requests?

[Z15]

quote:

---

STATION RECOVERY (1962)

DH2455

DH2455''RECOVERY NOTE BY ALABAMA HIGHWAY DEPARTMENT 1962

DH2455''THE GENERAL LOCATION AS STATED BY O.H.T., 1887 IS GOOD BUT THE

DH2455''FOLLOWING MAY AID IN THE FUTURE LOCATION OF THIS STATION. THE

DH2455''STATION IS IN A DENSELY WOODED AREA AT THIS TIME, MOSTLY SMALL

DH2455''PINE TREES. TRIANGULATION STATION COOSA IS 63.3 FEET NORTH, 40

DH2455''DEGREES EAST OF THIS STATION. THE CORNERS OF THE CONCRETE BLOCK

DH2455''OR POST INTO WHICH THE BRONZE DISK WAS PLACED, HAVE BEEN CHIPPED

DH2455''OFF BUT THE STATION APPEARS TO BE UNDISTURBED OTHERWISE AND IN

DH2455''GOOD CONDITION. NO REFERENCE MARKS WERE FOUND.

DH2455

DH2455 STATION RECOVERY (1969)

DH2455

DH2455''RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1969 (LFS)

DH2455''THE STATION WAS VISITED 2-12-69 AND THE STATION WAS FOUND IN GOOD

DH2455''CONDITION. THE CORNERS OF THE 10 INCH CONCRETE POST HAD BEEN

DH2455''CHIPPED OFF BUT WAS SETTING UPRIGHT AND SOLID IN THE GROUND.

DH2455''NONE OF THE REFERENCE NAILS WERE FOUND. PREVIOUS DESCRIPTIONS

DH2455''STATE THAT THE UNDERGROUND MARK IS A BEER BOTTLE MOUTH UPWARD AND

DH2455''THE SURFACE MARK IS AN ALABAMA GEODETIC SURVEY DISK SET IN A

DH2455''CONCRETE POST. A NEW DESCRIPTION FOLLOWS-

---

 

1962 said they found a disk and 1969 said the disk was ALABAMA GEODETIC SURVEY DISK. So it would appear it was set in 1939 since is was the agency disk that was found but that fact was omitted from the description for whatever reason.

 

Thats my take anywho.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Jeff -

 

Yes, I was missing the same thing, as you can see from my message. Be sure to check whether the disk is stamped 1937 or 1939.

 

There's something weird about the bottle too, which was buried 18" below the surface, but then either it, or some cement was 3 inches high in 1939, but 10 inches high in 1969. Depending on how you read it, it could be that the disk was actually set in 1962 in a pre-existing monument.

 

I did wonder last night about the airway beacon, but couldn't get a satellite picture then. A topo map said "radio tower".

 

I suppose if you're really wanting to be extreme, you could bring a metal detector and look for the reference mark nails. They are probably just red places in the soil now, but who knows? If you do search, be sure to check the magnetic declination change between 1887 and now.

[survey tech]

Jeff

Thats a very well written letter and it should serve the purpose just fine if the people are agreeable. I would stop by the tax assessors office and look up their names, which should only take a moment since you know the address, to make it more personal. A lot of people freak out about the government having any kind of interest in their land, even if they do not have an anti-government attitude to begin with, so I would de-emphasize the government references, and just concentrate on the historical value of the object, which is something nearly everyone can appreciate. In so doing however, be careful not to give them the idea that its something they can go out and dig up, like a buried treasure. Make sure they understand that its only valuable as long as it remains in place.

[Z15]

There is one LADwho worked on my survey crew last couple of years. He gets into searching out old iron ore mines and survey makers etc.

 

He is involved with a local historical society and that gets him access to all kinds of sites etc. They go out and map old mine sites etc. Whenever he contacts property owners they are willing to let him in. He stops by and BS's with them. He will make a good salesman but is graduating next year as a CE.

 

[This message was edited by elcamino on April 17, 2003 at 05:56 PM.]

[+MountainMudbug]

Very nicely done - good luck

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

So far out of the 50 or 60 I have recovered on private land I just go and knock on their doors and explain all that you have written down.I always take a printout of the Data Sheets with me to pencil graph to paper the marks.Once they are aware of the Historical Signifacance of the Recovery the are whole-heartedly willing to even help you look,it gives you a platform to discuss Geocaching as well.I have not been rejected yet and have 233 recovered logable and about 250 not in the Data Base.Happy Geotrails and Re-discovery.

 

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Your letter is well written and I wish you good luck in your hunt. I would also like to echo Survey Tech's comments about the historical value of it. I would also add that, even though it's 'just a bottle', its meaning and significance are just as valuable and important today as the day it was buried. Its position and condition are too. If and when you do find it, try to resist the temptation to pick it up an handle it. (I would really struggle with this.) Brasscaps, iron, and concrete are much more durable to handling than old glass.

 

I think that the history involved with the benchmarks is what attracts many benchmark hunters to them. They are history that we can literally touch, whether that history is 40 or 140 years old. I found one yesterday dated 1902 that I got pretty excited about, but i don't think it would be as exciting as finding a bottle like you're looking for. Good luck again, and let us know when you find it. I'd like to see the pictures.

 

Keep on Caching!

- Kewaneh

[eahousley]

I don't mean to be contrary, but ...

 

Your letter is very polite and informative. However, I would have thrown it out before I reached the third paragraph because it sounds like the beginning of a sales pitch.

 

-- Its from aliens. I seen um. --

 

[This message was edited by eahousley on April 18, 2003 at 08:50 AM.]

[+embra]

I think the letter is good, Jeff, but since you asked for opinions ...

 

The only thing I would suggest is along eahousley's observation: you might want to get the main point up in the first paragraph. If the reader has a better idea from the get-go what this is about, then they'll have a framework to fit in all the detail information you provide later on. Something like "I am a local resident who would like to have your permission to examine an item of historical significance that I have reason to believe is located on your property. Please allow me to explain..."

 

Take that suggestion FWIW, and don't agonize...you've got a good letter that should serve its purpose well.

 

Good luck on the hunt!

 

Max

Often wrong but seldom in doubt

[+chaosmanor]

I would echo the last two posters; get to the point a bit earlier. I really like the tone of your letter, but survey tech's comment about "gov't interest" is also cogent. The basic thing you want to make clear to the owners is that you are not selling them anything, you don't want to buy anything; you only want permission to come on their land, with them there, if that's what they want, to look for a piece of local history. after that, you'll go away and never bother them again, unless they request a follow-up. Other than that, you take a good tack with your approach. But think of your letter from the other side (you as the recipient), and you'll see why brevity is a key to success in your mission. Much good luck to you! Let us know how it goes.

 

So many caches; so few pairs of decent shoes