sabrefan7 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I saw this on one of my local groups http://protectsensitiveecosystems.blogspot.com/ We all need to be careful of our surroundings and I advocate the practice of LNT (leave no trace) But please lets not go to far here folks Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) I saw this on one of my local groups http://protectsensitiveecosystems.blogspot.com/ We all need to be careful of our surroundings and I advocate the practice of LNT (leave no trace) But please lets not go to far here folks I kind of have to laugh at the blogger- the NW rainforst ecosystem is decidedly more durable then people (the blogger) seem to give it. And those are not that bad of SWAG items. Edited April 30, 2010 by MooseJawSpruce Quote Link to comment
+rawkhopper Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 This is ridiculous! Did the guy even bother to check if they were placed with permission? A trail made by geocachers is less likely to be damaging to sensitive areas of the forest than trails made by deer, or other animals who don't care about "sensitive" areas, simply because if it is brought to the attention of the CO compensation can be made. The forest is not just there for wildlife it is there for us too. I could see if someone made a point of a particular container leaching chemicals into the area or purposeful placement of a cache in "sensitive" areas but this guy is over the top. Quote Link to comment
+Sioneva Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 Oops... I stepped on a mushroom. Catastrophe? Quote Link to comment
Andronicus Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 "Six years of people trampling this same area. Getting into the forest off trail repeatedly and bushwacking through this sensitive eco-system." The trail in the picture was obviously not from geocachers. There is clearly not enough geocaching traffic to create that trail. I guarantee you that the cacher placed the cache there because there was already a trail, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment
sabrefan7 Posted April 30, 2010 Author Share Posted April 30, 2010 Oops... I stepped on a mushroom. Catastrophe? Depends on the type of shroom Quote Link to comment
+reedkickball Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 I saw this on one of my local groups http://protectsensitiveecosystems.blogspot.com/ We all need to be careful of our surroundings and I advocate the practice of LNT (leave no trace) But please lets not go to far here folks The owner of those caches should turn him into the police. No different than any other cache thief. Quote Link to comment
jholly Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) If they are caches on state parks they must be placed with permission of the ranger. If the proper permission is not given GS will not list the cache. Edit: Many of the parks listed are WA state parks. Sounds like this person is a certifiable eco-nazi. Edited April 30, 2010 by jholly Quote Link to comment
+Mezgrman Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 (edited) Oh what a stupid [removed]**! If I had a cache there and I heard of caches disappearing one after the other, I would go and wait for that [removed] and then make him feel like a mushroom on a cacher-trail I'm gonna start a topic in the German Forum about this, wanna know what they say Mezgrman [edited by moderator to remove especially bad potty language. Do NOT post like this again!] Edited April 30, 2010 by Keystone Quote Link to comment
+AuntieWeasel Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 The trail in the picture was obviously not from geocachers. There is clearly not enough geocaching traffic to create that trail. I guarantee you that the cacher placed the cache there because there was already a trail, not the other way around. Bingo. I placed a cache up a game trail my own self, once. Quote Link to comment
+Nichole1980 Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 "Six years of people trampling this same area. Getting into the forest off trail repeatedly and bushwacking through this sensitive eco-system." The trail in the picture was obviously not from geocachers. There is clearly not enough geocaching traffic to create that trail. I guarantee you that the cacher placed the cache there because there was already a trail, not the other way around. This is my absolutely first post on this particular forum so forgive me if I did this wrong but this blogger irritated me. I am of course a newbie cacher but I am a LONG time blogger. I did not hesitate to post the above in a comment on this persons blog along with my own points. I did forget to mention that it was not me who said the first two paragraphs and I wanted to apologize for that...Sorry for stealing your words! Here is what I posted in case you wanted to read it: "Six years of people trampling this same area. Getting into the forest off trail repeatedly and bushwacking through this sensitive eco-system." The very first picture. The trail in the picture was obviously not from geocachers. There is clearly not enough geocaching traffic to create that trail. I guarantee you that the cacher placed the cache there because there was already a trail, not the other way around. Cachers have rules to follow when placing a cache. Most of us tree hugging cachers would never place a cache where these have been placed and there can be something done about some caches that are not placed within the regulations. Perhaps you should do some research first and have these caches removed the proper way as opposed to trampling through the forest with your own two feet (adding to the destruction I might add.) Besides, a good cache owner will just inevitably replace the missing cache within the first few DNFs. (That means "Did Not Find"). PS. What was the harm in the last cache on the beach? No fungi, no ferns, no mushrooms...Just sand, a hole, and a really well placed cache. Sincerely, Nichole1980 Blogger and Geocacher. Quote Link to comment
+nvh2ofowler Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 This is also my first post, I'm not exactly a newbie cacher, this topic drives me nuts people need to do more research before they spout off like this. My father who is also a cacher and I were just talking about how long it would be until something like this started happening. One of the best things I think would can do to people like this is show them the other sides of geocaching that they are not seeing, CITO being the prime example, in my experience most cachers are more than willing to help clean up the environment not deystroy it. Quote Link to comment
GOF and Bacall Posted April 30, 2010 Share Posted April 30, 2010 This is also my first post, I'm not exactly a newbie cacher, this topic drives me nuts people need to do more research before they spout off like this. My father who is also a cacher and I were just talking about how long it would be until something like this started happening. One of the best things I think would can do to people like this is show them the other sides of geocaching that they are not seeing, CITO being the prime example, in my experience most cachers are more than willing to help clean up the environment not deystroy it. This has been going on darn near as long as geocaching. Forget even trying to reason with people like that. They will never give up their righteous crusade, no matter how wrong they are. Fortunately, for the most part, these types usually have a short attention span. Quote Link to comment
NeecesandNephews Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 I love the comment under the picture that states "unleashed dogs can do a lot of harm in only a moment off trail". This moron should to be strapped naked to a tree with honey poured over him and left to discover what other "creatures" wander the woods " off leash" That is just as much the ranting of an "extremist" as anything I have heard. The wife, reading over my shoulder, says "whats that saying... does a bear #### in the woods?" Guess we need to do the eco-conscientious thing and form a Patrol for any "off leash" creatures. Wait.... we would have to walk in there if we did that! Maybe we could just post signs that say "No Wildlife Allowed". nah... that wouldn't work either. They would just ignore the signs as is claimed others do. This is going into my "Moron of the day " file. Thanks for sharing!!! Quote Link to comment
+catsnfish Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) and the three things I admire most the eagle, dunes and the mushroom host, caught the last train for the coast, because of cacher's hides? Edited May 1, 2010 by catsnfish Quote Link to comment
+Ms.Scrabbler Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Why is walking up to the cache to take pictures (and remove it) any different that cachers on the hunt? Quote Link to comment
+pc.geekess Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 This annoyed me, I would be ticked if someone removed my cache. I am pretty much not a nature person and before geocaching I could have given 2 shakes about any tree. It is because of geocaching that I even started appreciating nature and all the wonderful things that it makes. This person should think about the goodness and awareness that GC brings. Before I started geocaching, if my area wanted to take down a woods to build commerence I would be all for it. Now I have changed my tune because it would be one less place to cache. Quote Link to comment
+TheAlabamaRambler Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) Under very similar circumstances a 10-year reign of cache-maggotry recently ended with the arrest and public humiliation of NY geocache thief Paul Repak. Get a local cacher who is also a cop on this and I expect he'll put an end to this guy's cache theft career. Edited May 1, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler Quote Link to comment
+Jaywebb Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Hahaha I agree with the guy who left the comment on the blog page Quote Link to comment
Chumpo Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 and the three things I admire mostthe eagle, dunes and the mushroom host, caught the last train for the coast, because of cacher's hides? Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Oops... I stepped on a mushroom. Catastrophe? Gasp!! Was it a morel? If so... yes. No more donuts for you! Quote Link to comment
knowschad Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 I love the comment under the picture that states "unleashed dogs can do a lot of harm in only a moment off trail". This moron should to be strapped naked to a tree with honey poured over him and left to discover what other "creatures" wander the woods " off leash" Not to mention how abusive it is to not let dogs run free once in a while. Its in their blood, their hearts. It is cruel and heartless to not let them off the leash sometimes. But that's another story. Tell me more about that moron and why does it have to be a "him"? Quote Link to comment
NeecesandNephews Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) I love the comment under the picture that states "unleashed dogs can do a lot of harm in only a moment off trail". This moron should to be strapped naked to a tree with honey poured over him and left to discover what other "creatures" wander the woods " off leash" Not to mention how abusive it is to not let dogs run free once in a while. Its in their blood, their hearts. It is cruel and heartless to not let them off the leash sometimes. But that's another story. Tell me more about that moron and why does it have to be a "him"? well duhh!! tying up a "her" to a tree naked and covered with honey would be... well... uncivilized and harsh!! Edited May 1, 2010 by NeecesandNephews Quote Link to comment
+geodarts Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) Not to mention how abusive it is to not let dogs run free once in a while. Its in their blood, their hearts. It is cruel and heartless to not let them off the leash sometimes. He has a point about some dog owners. We have trails where dogs must be on leash, others where they can be off leash on voice command, and others where dogs are not allowed at all. Then there are the dog owners who ignore all three distinctions and wonder where their dog has gone and why their dog is not responding when they call. Most likely chasing a mountain biker or growling at my dog when we walk by. Edited May 1, 2010 by Erickson Quote Link to comment
+jd350az Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 How does a dog off leash destroy the plant life anymore than a wild animal? Do the bears and mountain lions in the woods behind my house act more respectful to the plantlife than my dog does? I don't let him offleash much because of the bears and mountain lions though heh. Hikers aren't any better, I live and work on a summit high point of the county and I was just reading summit logs of visitors making the high point and almost everyone admitted to trespassing on the site along with telling about all the signs warning against it, 1 guy admits to lying about his identity to gain access, a few encourage everyone else to trespass and tells them how to do it and it goes on and on with every log. So I guess you can go offtrail as long as its onto private property with signs telling you not to enter. Quote Link to comment
+roziecakes Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) This makes me so mad. As geocachers, we try to be extra careful about how we treat our surroundings so that they stay nice for whoever is there next. We also CITO a lot. What does this blogger think? Are people supposed to stay indoors and never touch anything outside for fear of possibly stepping on a blade of grass? Parks are for humans to enjoy too... we can be respectful AND geocache at the same time. And the part about the caches being filled with "garbage." Who cares? It's all encased in a cache. The ammo can sitting there wasn't hurting ANYTHING. Grrr. Makes those of us who care for the environment look bad. My husband and I care a lot, but we're also realistic. We're all consumers in some way. That blogger had to purchase a GPS (made in a factory, which isn't necessarily an environmentally friendly process), they walked on the SAME trails to throw the caches away, and then they blogged about it on a COMPUTER (also made in a factory... and we know how that goes). The thing is (and I'm probably preaching to the choir here), let he who is without sin cast the first stone. We all wipe our posteriors with toilet paper, we all wear shoes and clothing, and buy food at the grocery store (for the most part). Unless that blogger stops using a computer, digital camera, and makes their own shoes, clothing, and never touches a GPS again they really have no room to talk... rant done. Edited May 1, 2010 by nymphnsatyr Quote Link to comment
+Crow-T-Robot Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Why is walking up to the cache to take pictures (and remove it) any different that cachers on the hunt? That was my first thought as well...but then I realized this guy is such an eco-angel, he just floats above the ground. The thing I love about these eco-nuts is that they truly believe that through normal use, humans can "destroy" nature. I try to Leave No Trace because I find geotrails and destruction to be unsightly and against my geocaching/woodsmans ethics but I'm under no delusions. No matter how down-trodden a trail becomes, if left alone, nature will quickly reclaim it. In this regard, we really are a flea on an elephants back...we're not going to hurt the elephant. The other thing I've always wondered about was the idea that certain places or things needed to be "preserved" forever. This planet is constantly evolving. Entire islands have fallen into the ocean while new ones are being formed today as we live and breath. Entire forests have been devastated by wildfires only to grow back. Mount St. Helens was a devastating volcanic eruption and for all the damage it did, the affected area around it isn't a barren wasteland. Mount Everest will one day be gone, flattened by the effects of erosion and time. Nature is far stronger than we and far more ruthless. She's also far more resiliant. Or maybe I'm full of baloney. Quote Link to comment
+brslk Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Why is walking up to the cache to take pictures (and remove it) any different that cachers on the hunt? That was my first thought as well...but then I realized this guy is such an eco-angel, he just floats above the ground. The thing I love about these eco-nuts is that they truly believe that through normal use, humans can "destroy" nature. I try to Leave No Trace because I find geotrails and destruction to be unsightly and against my geocaching/woodsmans ethics but I'm under no delusions. No matter how down-trodden a trail becomes, if left alone, nature will quickly reclaim it. In this regard, we really are a flea on an elephants back...we're not going to hurt the elephant. The other thing I've always wondered about was the idea that certain places or things needed to be "preserved" forever. This planet is constantly evolving. Entire islands have fallen into the ocean while new ones are being formed today as we live and breath. Entire forests have been devastated by wildfires only to grow back. Mount St. Helens was a devastating volcanic eruption and for all the damage it did, the affected area around it isn't a barren wasteland. Mount Everest will one day be gone, flattened by the effects of erosion and time. Nature is far stronger than we and far more ruthless. She's also far more resiliant. Or maybe I'm full of baloney. Or maybe you are right on the money... Quote Link to comment
McKeeFamily2 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Oops... I stepped on a mushroom. Catastrophe? Gasp!! Was it a morel? If so... yes. No more donuts for you! Ha! Our buddy just found some Morels today by goodness - said that he found some yellows - about 14 of them made a pound, and the other 36 made up about whatever ounces. I did not know that morels grow something like (what did he say) and inch and hour? I said - man - I should time lapse photo that - and he goes almost wouldn't have to! We'll be cookin up some morels soon I'm sure. I love the comment under the picture that states "unleashed dogs can do a lot of harm in only a moment off trail". This moron should to be strapped naked to a tree with honey poured over him and left to discover what other "creatures" wander the woods " off leash" Not to mention how abusive it is to not let dogs run free once in a while. Its in their blood, their hearts. It is cruel and heartless to not let them off the leash sometimes. But that's another story. Tell me more about that moron and why does it have to be a "him"? Yeah, I thought that too. I have my geopup leashed when she should be, and she's about 6 months old now. A drop off that ended up here at about 3-4 months of age cause the previous owners couldn't deal with it. Lack of knowledge on how to train, plus a terminally ill child that was scheduled for a bone marrow transplant weren't exactly working with the new pup. I wasn't exactly ready for "puppy duty" again, but you know... it's been fun. Had dogs all my life growing up, and the last GS I had was the best dog in my life. We had to put him down at 10 because of health issues, and I wouldn't get a dog since. 9 years later I'm stuck with goofy eared geopup that was a complete MESS when she got here. How letting her off leash to romp a bit in the park when I don't see anyone else around (and she DOES come back on recall) could harm the environment is anyone's guess. My first thought was DEER! Ha! They eat all my mom's tomato plants every chance they get - so if they do that in the backyard, I can imagine what they do in the wild. Deer rubs (bark rubbed off of trees) trampled round spots where they have "bedded down" for the night or whatever - is a lot more damage than the geopup does on a run through from me to the kids in a high traffic area. Mercy. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 What I find funny is that his photos actually show amazingly little damage. Quote Link to comment
+JJball Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 and the three things I admire most the eagle, dunes and the mushroom host, caught the last train for the coast, because of cacher's hides? hahaha As for the blog - UGH! I don't think I can say anything nice about the situation without being banned from this board so I'll abstain. Extremists of any sort just boggle my mind. Quote Link to comment
+roziecakes Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 What I find funny is that his photos actually show amazingly little damage. Right? Really!! I was thinking exactly the same thing. And actually, I was thinking to myself; "Wow those are some nice looking regular sized caches." Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) I was really sad to see this. I have found at least one of the caches that he took. I'm actually right next to Whidbey Island right now, I'm basically on Deception Pass State Park for a church retreat. We've been discussing what to do today after church, and one of the caches on our list I just found out was taken by this blogger. Wow, reading the posts on the blog really frustrate me. Most of the caches in our state parks have permission to be there, this person is trying to act all high and mighty, but is just coming off as a weirdo jerk. Especially when they point out caches that are not in a sensitive spot but then try and make up reasons why they need to take it. I'm in the middle of talking with one of the Deception Pass State Park Rangers, about placing an Earthcache here. I guess, at least that can't be taken by this guy. Edited May 1, 2010 by Ambrosia Quote Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 If they are caches on state parks they must be placed with permission of the ranger. If the proper permission is not given GS will not list the cache. Edit: Many of the parks listed are WA state parks. Sounds like this person is a certifiable eco-nazi. "If they are caches on state parks they must be placed with permission of the ranger. If the proper permission is not given GS will not list the cache." Is this policy used for all state parks? This is a really great idea and will obviously greatly reduce the chance of issues arising later. Quote Link to comment
NeecesandNephews Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) Thank you Knowschad for pointing out the fallacy of believing this has to be a man writing this blog and stealing these caches. If you scroll down the through the photos, about a third of the way down the page there is a photo showing what appears to be a lock-n-lock on the end of a lanyard. The hand in the picture (judging by the fingernails) has a definite feminine appearance!!! I stand corrected!!! This looks like a feminine hand! Edited May 1, 2010 by NeecesandNephews Quote Link to comment
+Herb and Beans Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 I agree it is important to be respectful of surroundings, but this guy is really taking it to a point that I believe is ridiculous. This guy is an eco-tool. Quote Link to comment
+chasclifton Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) After the environmental newspaper High Country News did a favorable piece about geocaching, Arizona writer Mary Sojourner exploded in righteous fury: "Here, in the increasingly mapped, sanitized and sold Southwest, geocaching is on a par with surveying. Some of those nasty zealot mesquite-huggers have been known to yank geocaches as gleefully as they once did stakes festooned with Day-Glo plastic." So there you go. Some people equate caches with pollution or oil and gas drilling in their effects on the environment. Edited May 1, 2010 by chasclifton Quote Link to comment
+chachi44089 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Didnt he have to "geocache" to find and dispose of all those caches? He is a hypocrite, in my opinion. As far as dogs off leash go, Isnt a wolf or coyote capable of this same "destruction" he claims? Or more? He had to "trample" down the same trails that he blame geocaching for to take all those pretty pictures. Hypocrite. Quote Link to comment
twicebakedtaters Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 People like this give environmentalists a bad name. I wonder if he picked those chantrell or oyster mushrooms for dinner...they looked pretty tasty. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 (edited) There is always extremists in any group. Perhaps all parks should be walled off to visitors? Edit- I'm not at the beach bar anymore:D Edited May 2, 2010 by 4wheelin_fool Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 If they are caches on state parks they must be placed with permission of the ranger. If the proper permission is not given GS will not list the cache. Edit: Many of the parks listed are WA state parks. Sounds like this person is a certifiable eco-nazi. "If they are caches on state parks they must be placed with permission of the ranger. If the proper permission is not given GS will not list the cache." Is this policy used for all state parks? This is a really great idea and will obviously greatly reduce the chance of issues arising later. This is the Washington State Parks policy. Those of other States will be different. Quote Link to comment
+WRITE SHOP ROBERT Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 What I find funny is that his photos actually show amazingly little damage. That might be because he's using his blogging, ranting, geocache stealing excurtions as an excuse to go off trail in search of pristine fungi to photograph. How many visitors do most of these Caches het anyway, one per month? People like this seem to assume that there is a constant stream of people visiting every day. Quote Link to comment
+Team Cotati Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 What I find funny is that his photos actually show amazingly little damage. That might be because he's using his blogging, ranting, geocache stealing excurtions as an excuse to go off trail in search of pristine fungi to photograph. How many visitors do most of these Caches het anyway, one per month? People like this seem to assume that there is a constant stream of people visiting every day. What do you mean by "excuse to go off trail"? Quote Link to comment
+WRITE SHOP ROBERT Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 What do you mean by "excuse to go off trail"? Isn't he ranting about people who go off the marked trails for geocaching...now he gets to go off the trails to get all the pictures of his fungi, under the guise of "Collecting litter". If it were not for this crusade, he would have to stay on the trail, or be violating his own standards. Now he's given himself to violate his own standards. "No one should ever travel to Cuba...to prove that, I'm going to travel to Cuba so I can show you why" Quote Link to comment
+journey4truth Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Wow, that's just creepy. Somebody loves fungus just a liiiiittle too much there. Reminds me of a certain Batman villain: Destroy that geocache Batman, or Robin dies!!!111 Quote Link to comment
+ihorn Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 This guy is going to be an eco-terrorist one day. Quote Link to comment
+42at42 Posted May 1, 2010 Share Posted May 1, 2010 Thank you Knowschad for pointing out the fallacy of believing this has to be a man writing this blog and stealing these caches. If you scroll down the through the photos, about a third of the way down the page there is a photo showing what appears to be a lock-n-lock on the end of a lanyard. The hand in the picture (judging by the fingernails) has a definite feminine appearance!!! I stand corrected!!! This looks like a feminine hand! Good call. You should be a detective. I totally missed that clue. Quote Link to comment
+hat_man Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 Just out of curiosity..... hasn't this person just admitted to theft? I don't understand blogging all that well but it shouldn't be too hard for someone to find out who this person is and report them to the local LEO's. Especially if they were placed with the permission of the local DNR. I feel sorry for the folks that had started the travel bug. A 9000 mile trip brought to an unhappy end. I wonder whose it was. Quote Link to comment
+StephenTravels Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 (edited) I just heard about these eco-nazis today. I'm from Whidbey Island and went caching today in a nearby town and saw this flyer on a kiosk at Sharpe Park in Anacortes, WA. They must have left the geocaches in the park alone, since I still found a few but still...I don't see how removing caches (especially if they have been approved to be placed in the parks by the park ranger) is going to "save the forest". There are plenty of animals out there that trample on plants and make their own trails. Beavers cut down trees and dam up streams. Does that mean they should be destroyed too? I would suggest to anyone who has caches in this area to temporarily set them as "members only" caches. Edited May 2, 2010 by tsunami_KNUW Quote Link to comment
tttedzeins Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 This has been going on darn near as long as geocaching. Forget even trying to reason with people like that. They will never give up their righteous crusade, no matter how wrong they are. Fortunately, for the most part, these types usually have a short attention span. Works both ways. Most times this subject comes up Geocachers deny vehemently having ever caused any damage. Quote Link to comment
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