Ideas for future PQ1K email or direct download link

7.7k · May 9, 2010

The question is, what's being optimized by the PQ1K restriction? DB load? Storage space? Bandwidth? Magic Smoke utilization?

You left out "hamster feed".

Other than what's quoted from Groundspeak lackeys above, I have no other insight, so I'll spare you my pure speculation

7k · May 9, 2010

If I understand what you're saying, the secret is still being stored in the application, in encrypted form or otherwise, so the paranoid will remain paranoid, and those who don't care will not care either way.

no, the secret isn't being stored in the application, the secret is secret to GS only and no-one will ever see it. it's the hash that's being stored in the application, with the hash being the result of combining the secret with the password (or username or user-id if a less secure, but more permanent auth token is desired). the purpose of the secret is to make sure that only GS is able to produce valid auth tokens, and to make it impossible (or well, very very hard) to reverse the hashing process and retrieve a user's password out of a hash.

For one example of secure transmission of password, you can look at APOP command of POP3. Challenge / response has one advantage over a fixed secret hash - it is more resistant to a replay attack.

of course there's many ways of doing secure authentication and authorization, but none of them are fool-proof to set up, uniformly supported by the client applications or easy to implement on the server side.

Edited May 9, 2010 by dfx

May 10, 2010

You can't count puzzle solutions into the equation because you don't get those from Groundspeak.

Actually, that's another thing people have been screaming hoping for - the ability to mark caches with corrected coordinates and custom child waypoints, and have those come down in a GPX file download or PQ. Again, if Groundspeak gave us the tools to manage this information on the site, I'd be willing to give up a lot of my PQ activity.

Use GSAK... Corrected Coordinates for each cache IS possible.

The Steaks

2.7k · May 10, 2010

You can't count puzzle solutions into the equation because you don't get those from Groundspeak.

Actually, that's another thing people have been screaming hoping for - the ability to mark caches with corrected coordinates and custom child waypoints, and have those come down in a GPX file download or PQ. Again, if Groundspeak gave us the tools to manage this information on the site, I'd be willing to give up a lot of my PQ activity.

Use GSAK... Corrected Coordinates for each cache IS possible.

The Steaks

That's what I currently do - but if PQs stop being emailed altogether, as has been rumoured - I want that functionality built into the site. If the purpose of a PQ is to 'load my GPS' then I wanna load up corrected coordinates, and have my own waypoints in that downloaded file. Then there's the whole GSAK Macro library that also needs to be duplicated on the GC.com website if I'm to give up my GSAK db.

May 10, 2010

All caches in a state is ridiculous for a large state. For instance, someone who lives on Long Island is not very likely to need all the caches in New York State on a regular basis.

It amuses me how much time is being spent on this.

But for those that DO already run the PQs for this ONLY reason... It would Drop the server load and Processor load for these to be updated each 3 Days... Of course, a MAX of 2 would have to be implemented. One exception MAY be TX And CA. These states, for their sheer Size would need to be split into 2 sections(Northern and Southern). AK, though it is BIG, does not have the cache density to mandate this break...

The Steaks

May 10, 2010

You can't count puzzle solutions into the equation because you don't get those from Groundspeak.

Actually, that's another thing people have been screaming hoping for - the ability to mark caches with corrected coordinates and custom child waypoints, and have those come down in a GPX file download or PQ. Again, if Groundspeak gave us the tools to manage this information on the site, I'd be willing to give up a lot of my PQ activity.

Use GSAK... Corrected Coordinates for each cache IS possible.

The Steaks

That's what I currently do - but if PQs stop being emailed altogether, as has been rumoured - I want that functionality built into the site. If the purpose of a PQ is to 'load my GPS' then I wanna load up corrected coordinates, and have my own waypoints in that downloaded file. Then there's the whole GSAK Macro library that also needs to be duplicated on the GC.com website if I'm to give up my GSAK db.

Of course, if your going to stop using GSAK, then you'd want all that implemented to the site. BUT Groundspeak is just changing the way in which the PQ Data is sent to you IF the PQ is over 500 caches. I choose to change my way of getting the datat to get the 1000 caches, and understand why they do this.

Eventually, Groundspeak will have their own satellite network that sends data to GPS devices to show you the nearest 1000 caches that you haven't found. And all that for the same $30/year...

The Steaks

P.S. Will you complain then as well??

Edited May 10, 2010 by eagsc7

2.7k · May 10, 2010

Of course, if your going to stop using GSAK, then you'd want all that implemented to the site. BUT Groundspeak is just changing the way in which the PQ Data is sent to you IF the PQ is over 500 caches. I choose to change my way of getting the datat to get the 1000 caches, and understand why they do this.

Eventually, Groundspeak will have their own satellite network that sends data to GPS devices to show you the nearest 1000 caches that you haven't found. And all that for the same $30/year...

The Steaks

P.S. Will you complain then as well??

I've been over this already in the thread.

Read the whole thread. I don't mind paying more for expanded PQs.

I do mind reductions in site features. Right now, my workflow relies on emailed PQs. I'm not asking for the moon here, or a private satellite network, or for Groundspeak to send out boxes of printed geocaches on frog free flypaper. I want to continue using what I've been paying for, or have an equally useful replacement.

Groundspeak ALREADY offers on the fly geocache data, via their iPhone application - but for those of us who are on 3 year contracts (the standard in Canada) or don't wish to buy the brand of cell phone that Jeremy is using this week, that official application isn't particularly useful.

May 10, 2010

Of course, if your going to stop using GSAK, then you'd want all that implemented to the site. BUT Groundspeak is just changing the way in which the PQ Data is sent to you IF the PQ is over 500 caches. I choose to change my way of getting the datat to get the 1000 caches, and understand why they do this.

Eventually, Groundspeak will have their own satellite network that sends data to GPS devices to show you the nearest 1000 caches that you haven't found. And all that for the same $30/year...

The Steaks

P.S. Will you complain then as well??

I've been over this already in the thread.

Read the whole thread. I don't mind paying more for expanded PQs.

I do mind reductions in site features. Right now, my workflow relies on emailed PQs. I'm not asking for the moon here, or a private satellite network, or for Groundspeak to send out boxes of printed geocaches on frog free flypaper. I want to continue using what I've been paying for, or have an equally useful replacement.

Groundspeak ALREADY offers on the fly geocache data, via their iPhone application - but for those of us who are on 3 year contracts (the standard in Canada) or don't wish to buy the brand of cell phone that Jeremy is using this week, that official application isn't particularly useful.

:deadhorse:

Paragraph 1: "Queries that contain 500 geocaches or fewer can be delivered as an email attachment."~www.geocaching.com/pocket

Paragraph 2: I do acknowledge the fact that Groundspeak already offers on the fly data, But what I am talking about is a GPS/Satellite package that does the same as the current 'flavor of the day' app by Groundspeak, BUT for a more reliable use than urban caching. That is, when there are NO cell towers within MILES of where your at. Cause we all know that there are caches placed where cell towers don't reach still (Voice even... not to mention Data).

The Steaks

1.3k · May 10, 2010

I do mind reductions in site features. Right now, my workflow relies on emailed PQs. I'm not asking for the moon here, or a private satellite network, or for Groundspeak to send out boxes of printed geocaches on frog free flypaper. I want to continue using what I've been paying for, or have an equally useful replacement.

Groundspeak ALREADY offers on the fly geocache data, via their iPhone application - but for those of us who are on 3 year contracts (the standard in Canada) or don't wish to buy the brand of cell phone that Jeremy is using this week, that official application isn't particularly useful.

I don't see how anything has been reduced. You can still keep on working they way you have. If you want to take advantage of the new enhancement, 1,000 caches per PQ, then you will have to adjust your work flow if you rely 100% on email to get your data.

There is also BlackBerry software that will allow you to get data on the fly if you happen to have one of those cool devices.

2.7k · May 10, 2010

I don't see how anything has been reduced. You can still keep on working they way you have. If you want to take advantage of the new enhancement, 1,000 caches per PQ, then you will have to adjust your work flow if you rely 100% on email to get your data.

There is also BlackBerry software that will allow you to get data on the fly if you happen to have one of those cool devices.

I have been referring to an earlier post in this thread that hinted at how Groundspeak plans to end PQ emails altogether eventually. As I've said to the other poster on this topic, read the entire thread. Particularly if you're gonna reply to something that I just said that in.

I *have* a Blackberry Tour 9630 - where's the link to the *official* Groundspeak application (not Blackstar).

May 10, 2010

The site has not reduced it's features. It never promised that you would receive pqs in a manner that would allow you to deposit them in a data base without human intervention. I'm not even sure that it ever promised that it would always email you pqs. It did say that in return for a modest annual payment it would offer you the ability to do customized searches and give you access to the results in a form that can be loaded into most gpsr. It didn't say you could have instant access to the data base or did they say they would provide the optimum way for you to use any device you wanted to cache with. A economic transaction requires a willing buyer and a willing seller. Groundspeak has the right to decide what it is selling. You have the right to decide if you want to continue buying it. If their services no longer meet your needs, stop buying it. At the moment nothing has changed in what they are offering. You can still have details of 2500 caches delivered to your inbox.

Team Taran

ps I have read the whole thread but I do find it difficult to believe that you are unable to find 10 minutes or so a day to download your pqs.

1.3k · May 10, 2010

I don't see how anything has been reduced. You can still keep on working they way you have. If you want to take advantage of the new enhancement, 1,000 caches per PQ, then you will have to adjust your work flow if you rely 100% on email to get your data.

There is also BlackBerry software that will allow you to get data on the fly if you happen to have one of those cool devices.

I have been referring to an earlier post in this thread that hinted at how Groundspeak plans to end PQ emails altogether eventually. As I've said to the other poster on this topic, read the entire thread. Particularly if you're gonna reply to something that I just said that in.

I *have* a Blackberry Tour 9630 - where's the link to the *official* Groundspeak application (not Blackstar).

I don't think you can claim you have been deprived of anything or that what you are getting has been reduced based on speculation until it actually happens. I have been following this thread and see no indication that Groundspeak has reduced anything that they are providing you. I am quite sue that a lot of people got excited when it was announced that Groundspeak would be providing 1,000 caches in a single query. I am also quite sure the was a lot of disappointment and other negative feelings when it was discovered that they were not being emailed. Never the less, the fact is there has been no reduction in the quantity of caches you can get so I still do not see how anyone has been deprived of anything other than speculating on what might be coming next.

Why does Groundspeak have to provide an application when others do. If you are using a BlackBerry you can simply use Geocache Navigator. It has been around for a few years and works quite well. It even links back to your account so it can filter out caches you have already found.

2.7k · May 10, 2010

I don't think you can claim you have been deprived of anything or that what you are getting has been reduced based on speculation until it actually happens. I have been following this thread and see no indication that Groundspeak has reduced anything that they are providing you. I am quite sue that a lot of people got excited when it was announced that Groundspeak would be providing 1,000 caches in a single query. I am also quite sure the was a lot of disappointment and other negative feelings when it was discovered that they were not being emailed. Never the less, the fact is there has been no reduction in the quantity of caches you can get so I still do not see how anyone has been deprived of anything other than speculating on what might be coming next.

Again, context is skewed. I can talk about hypothetical situations all I want. If hypothetically GS wants to end emails, I can hypothetically discuss what I'd want (read: want, not demand) to see replace that functionality. If I want to be a purist I can go on about back in the days we had to PRINT out our caches and walk around the woods with a handful of printouts. I love how discussions about what we'd LIKE to see devolve into "You should do it my way" or "how dare , how DARE you ask for something different". Of course GS doesn't guarantee I'll like their offerings.

But look at what happens when companies mess with the successful formula too much -- anyone remember when Coke switched their formula and sales plummeted? Coke Classic came out pretty darn quick. Go ahead, kill off the PQ emails and tell the customer base to suck it up. I'm sure a lot of cachers will. I'm also sure another bunch will find a new hobby.

Why does Groundspeak have to provide an application when others do. If you are using a BlackBerry you can simply use Geocache Navigator. It has been around for a few years and works quite well. It even links back to your account so it can filter out caches you have already found.

I want an officially supported application, because Groundspeak likes to kill off third party access to the site. For a long, long time Geocache Navigator was only available to cachers in the USA.

1.4k · May 10, 2010

The site has not reduced it's features.

Yes it has. I can no longer receive the My Finds PQ by email.

It never promised that you would receive pqs in a manner that would allow you to deposit them in a data base without human intervention. I'm not even sure that it ever promised that it would always email you pqs.

What the emails were used for is irrelevant. Pocket Queries are advertised as being emailed:

Getting Started as a Premium Member

While they never promised to always email, removing an advertised feature is a good way to annoy your customers. I'm talking about the complete removal of emailed PQs here, BTW.

It did say that in return for a modest annual payment it would offer you the ability to do customized searches and give you access to the results in a form that can be loaded into most gpsr. It didn't say you could have instant access to the data base or did they say they would provide the optimum way for you to use any device you wanted to cache with.

No, it didn't say that. It gave "Common reasons geocachers create pocket queries". It did not exclude uncommon reasons. And how about this reason:

"Update the status of caches that you have already downloaded so that you don't head outdoors looking for a cache that is no longer there"

A economic transaction requires a willing buyer and a willing seller. Groundspeak has the right to decide what it is selling. You have the right to decide if you want to continue buying it. If their services no longer meet your needs, stop buying it. At the moment nothing has changed in what they are offering. You can still have details of 2500 caches delivered to your inbox.

And as I buyer I have the right to tell the seller what I want. That way the seller can adjust what they're selling to keep me as a buyer.

Other than the My Finds and and the PQ title bug, nothing has changed, yet. But there are rumors that Groundspeak is considering dropping the emailing entirely.

ps I have read the whole thread but I do find it difficult to believe that you are unable to find 10 minutes or so a day to download your pqs.

You may have read the entire thread but it looks like you didn't understand all of it. Ten minutes one day is nothing. Ten minutes each day for the next 10 years is something. There are people in the world who absolutely can't stand mindless repetitive tasks.

If I had to manually enter data into a computer for 30 minutes or spend 60 minutes writing a program to do it for me, guess which one I would do...

1.4k · May 10, 2010

I don't think you can claim you have been deprived of anything or that what you are getting has been reduced based on speculation until it actually happens. I have been following this thread and see no indication that Groundspeak has reduced anything that they are providing you.

The My Finds PQ email has be eliminated. We found this out in the release notes. There was no indication that this would happen. And there are no plans to change it back.

So if we hear rumors of other features potentially being dropped, we're going to voice our concern now rather than later. Because later it will be too late.

Why does Groundspeak have to provide an application when others do. If you are using a BlackBerry you can simply use Geocache Navigator. It has been around for a few years and works quite well. It even links back to your account so it can filter out caches you have already found.

Tried Geocache Navigator. Don't like it. Way too many missing features and they don't seem to be inclined to add them. I asked for being able to add a notes when logging a cache as found so it would appear in the Field Notes screen on the site and it fell on deaf ears.

1.3k · May 10, 2010

I want an officially supported application, because Groundspeak likes to kill off third party access to the site. For a long, long time Geocache Navigator was only available to cachers in the USA.

I have been using it for almost two years and it works just fine in Canada. Groundspeak hasn't killed it off yet, and I don't think they will be any time soon.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Keith Watson

1.3k · May 10, 2010

Tried Geocache Navigator. Don't like it. Way too many missing features and they don't seem to be inclined to add them. I asked for being able to add a notes when logging a cache as found so it would appear in the Field Notes screen on the site and it fell on deaf ears.

Field notes have been there since I started using it almost two years ago. I can log a cache found on my BlackBerry and it creates a field note on the website that can be turned into a log quite easily.

1.4k · May 10, 2010

Field notes have been there since I started using it almost two years ago. I can log a cache found on my BlackBerry and it creates a field note on the website that can be turned into a log quite easily.

Yes, but I couldn't enter actual text into the note out in the field. I had to do that once I got home.

I prefix all my logs with the time for a handful of reasons. On the Colorado I have a utility that pulls that info from the timestamp column and puts it into the description column before I upload the visits file to the site.

I, and one or two other people, asked for a time prefix to be added to the entry in Geocache Navigator. If that was too much trouble we would settle for being able to enter notes in the field so we could add the time manually (plus whatever other things we wanted to remember while logging the cache).

No response from them.

1.3k · May 10, 2010

Field notes have been there since I started using it almost two years ago. I can log a cache found on my BlackBerry and it creates a field note on the website that can be turned into a log quite easily.

Yes, but I couldn't enter actual text into the note out in the field. I had to do that once I got home.

I prefix all my logs with the time for a handful of reasons. On the Colorado I have a utility that pulls that info from the time stamp column and puts it into the description column before I upload the visits file to the site.

I, and one or two other people, asked for a time prefix to be added to the entry in Geocache Navigator. If that was too much trouble we would settle for being able to enter notes in the field so we could add the time manually (plus whatever other things we wanted to remember while logging the cache).

No response from them.

Sorry, didn't realize you were asking for something specifically you do personally. If the time adding the time stamp automatically is important to you I can see why you don;t like it. From personal experience in seeing the logs for my own caches, not too many people log the time they visit my caches.

I can tell you that the whole value declining discussion was beaten to death in another thread and it seemed to have died off as soon as it was announced we would get 1,000 caches in a single PQ. I guess those people were great-full for the enhancement. I know I am.

1.4k · May 10, 2010

Sorry, didn't realize you were asking for something specifically you do personally. If the time adding the time stamp automatically is important to you I can see why you don;t like it. From personal experience in seeing the logs for my own caches, not too many people log the time they visit my caches.

I don't think you're understanding me. The automatic timestamp feature request was a nice to have. If they didn't want to do that, as only a few people would make use of it, we asked for them to add the ability to enter text for the field notes. That would be useful for a lot of people.

The whole point of Field Notes is to enter notes in the field. That way you can type in details about the cache you visited so you won't forget. With a BlackBerry keyboard it would be nice and quick to enter a lot of text. Yet they chose not to add that in.

Has it been added yet?

I can tell you that the whole value declining discussion was beaten to death in another thread and it seemed to have died off as soon as it was announced we would get 1,000 caches in a single PQ. I guess those people were great-full for the enhancement. I know I am.

It probably wouldn't have died down if they revealed the no-email detail when they announce it back then.

8k · May 10, 2010

Strange how we gain a sense of entitlement.

Like others in this thread, I use a GSAK macro to process my pocket queries. I click on button, the macro goes and fetches the emails with the PQ results, loads them into GSAK, finds the cache alread in GSAK for the same area that didn't get updated, deletes these because they are now archived, filters the caches remaining in GSAK by a preset criteria, and downloads the results to my Oregon (with the corrected coordinates for any puzzles I've already solved and any notes I've added in GSAK).

Of course my workflow is unique to the way I geocache, so there is no GSAK macro I could just use. Although I borrowed freely from a few, I wrote this myself. My hope is that Groundspeak and Clyde will come up with a scheme for downloading the PQ results using GSAK and I'll modify my macro to use it. In the meantime I will either leave the PQ size under 500 so I can continue to use one click, or I'll modify the macro to pause and let me manually download the PQ at that point.

In fact this weekend, I made the chage to do this. A 1K PQ mean I have half the number of PQs to get and even with manual intervention it takes less time to get them than it did for GSAK to get them from the mail. As mentioned earlier, I've been using DownThemAll! to download the files. The next step would be to create a Greasemonkey script or to write my own add-on to download the files. Perhaps even one that could interface to my GSAK macro? Seems with all the clever people with knowlege of all these various internet protocols for file transfer and secure login, someone would be writing these applications. (Of course you need to be careful to not violate the TOUs against automated tools, which is why I asked TPTB to clarify them for the purpose of download of PQ results).

Edited May 10, 2010 by tozainamboku

May 10, 2010

Strange how we gain a sense of entitlement.

Yes it is. Like you, I have arranged GSAK to work with the way I cache. I like to wake up on Friday mornings when I am going camping that evening and load a few thousand caches as POIs into my GPS. While I may be camping at one spot, my travels may take me near thousands of caches and I want to have all my caches handy. I also like to have the caches available for GSAK on my netbook in case I want to do some impromptu route planning. It is about flexibility. And flexibility is what the new scheme takes away from users.

For now I am keeping my local PQs under 500 to maintain the flexibility. For PQs covering other regions I have moved to 1000 to get a wider range. To download them I log in with Firefox and have the link to each PQ as individual bookmarks in one folder in my bookmarks toolbar. A click on "Open All in Tabs" gets the current PQ in my download folder then a macro get loads them in GSAK. It takes some extra time but as long as I do it first thing in the morning it is less of a bother.

Still no two caches play this game the same way and flexibility for individualized ways of caching is what will satisfy the most users.

ETA

During lunch I logged onto my home computer, installed Google Chrome then implemented the above scheme in Chrome. Worked like a charm and I have a folder full of pocket query zip files waiting for my GSAK macro to be pointed to the new location. For now I plan to use Chrome exclusively for accessing PQs so I can keep the settings optimized. Firefox will be for general browsing.

Edited May 10, 2010 by Great Birds

1.3k · May 10, 2010

I can tell you that the whole value declining discussion was beaten to death in another thread and it seemed to have died off as soon as it was announced we would get 1,000 caches in a single PQ. I guess those people were great-full for the enhancement. I know I am.

It probably wouldn't have died down if they revealed the no-email detail when they announce it back then.

If that was true than that thread would have fired up and people would be complain about that as much as they are complaining about not getting 501+ caches by mail. Doesn't look like it from what I can tell. From what i can tell, the biggest dissatisfaction with the new PQ size limit is not getting them by email to feed automated systems.

2.7k · May 10, 2010

How did this thread switch from "Ideas for future PQ1K email or direct download link" to "Justify why you want a future PQ1K email or direct download link" again?

The current discussion has no relation to the original topic, it's just turned into a bunch of people who don't work for Groundspeak jumping on people for having the nerve to discuss this.

If you don't like the topic, why not read something else and let us go back to discussing ideas.

1.3k · May 10, 2010

How did this thread switch from "Ideas for future PQ1K email or direct download link" to "Justify why you want a future PQ1K email or direct download link" again?

The current discussion has no relation to the original topic, it's just turned into a bunch of people who don't work for Groundspeak jumping on people for having the nerve to discuss this.

If you don't like the topic, why not read something else and let us go back to discussing ideas.

I think this is because the topic has gone stale.

1.4k · May 10, 2010

I think this is because the topic has gone stale.

The last time someone said this, the RSS idea was posted shortly after. There's no schedule for creativity. If someone comes up with a good idea, let them resurrect the topic.

Tozainamboku and Great Birds are currently discussing how to automate the download with what we currently have without TOU violations. That's valuable information for a lot of people.

Unfortunately the signal to noise ratio is rather low as too many people keep trying to derail the thread.

7.2k · May 11, 2010

Automated on a schedule from the site or emailed, I doesn't really matter to me. I'd have to change to an automated scheme if they stop emails. That's going to be a pain considering I've got the present scheme working like a well oiled machine.

Once an automated scheme gets its blessing from The Frog I'm hoping they make it an option to send an email for PQs under 500. If folks who aren't using <500PQ emails then there is no reason for them to be clogging up the email server for the rest of us until (if) we switch.

May 12, 2010

A economic transaction requires a willing buyer and a willing seller. Groundspeak has the right to decide what it is selling. You have the right to decide if you want to continue buying it. If their services no longer meet your needs, stop buying it. At the moment nothing has changed in what they are offering. You can still have details of 2500 caches delivered to your inbox.

That has now been INCREASED. It's now 5000 caches that you can direct download off the website. This is FAR Better than the 5 click method used for Any Y! mail...

May 12, 2010

Have or not PQ in my email is not a problem for me, because normally when I update my offline DB or plan my next geocaching tour I ask for a PQ and wait for its completion.

But I would like to suggest a new feature, hope this is the right place to do it

Sometimes have the possibility to ask for a "square" PocketQuery should be a great help.

I mean a PQ for the caches included, for example between N46 50.000 - N 46 80.000 and E013 10.000 - E013 40.000.

This will permit to cover the territory with "tiles" and to reduce the total number of PQ required.

Edited May 12, 2010 by faina09

7k · May 14, 2010

any news on this? lackeys? anyone?

3.6k · May 14, 2010

Sometimes have the possibility to ask for a "square" PocketQuery should be a great help.
I mean a PQ for the caches included, for example between N46 50.000 - N 46 80.000 and E013 10.000 - E013 40.000.

This will permit to cover the territory with "tiles" and to reduce the total number of PQ required.

A workaround is to setup your PQs by date. Since no cache can be published on more than one date, you won't get any overlap. It works great when going on vacation and wanting to setup a PQ for a certain distance from your hotel but there's more caches than will fit into one PQ. It's the most efficient method there is.

May 14, 2010

Have or not PQ in my email is not a problem for me, because normally when I update my offline DB or plan my next geocaching tour I ask for a PQ and wait for its completion.

But I would like to suggest a new feature, hope this is the right place to do it

Sometimes have the possibility to ask for a "square" PocketQuery should be a great help.

I mean a PQ for the caches included, for example between N46 50.000 - N 46 80.000 and E013 10.000 - E013 40.000.

This will permit to cover the territory with "tiles" and to reduce the total number of PQ required.

Having a query run as a square tile would present problems. First of all, what size of tile would suit everyone.

GSAK already has a filter for creating a polygon to any shape you can dream of.

As far as the things that GS has done to the way they handle sending queries , my person opinion is that Im thrilled that they decided to increase the size to 1000. Whether I have to fetch them myself or have them emailed to me is of no concern. I'm sure that there's not too many people who use GS that dont have a few spare minutes per day to take care of how they get their caches to their GPS.

7.7k · May 14, 2010

Having a query run as a square tile would present problems. First of all, what size of tile would suit everyone.

I don't understand. It's like saying having a query run as a circle would present problems, because what size circle would suit everyone.

If it is run as a rectangular-ish tile, you'll specify NW and SE corner coordinates. There'll actually be much less calculations involved in selecting caches, but if the set exceeds 1000, it'll be harder to determine which ones to drop.

The segment by placed date method in Markwell's FAQ is the method I've been using, and it works very well, with one exception. If someone mucks with the placed date and chose something before 1995, the PQs won't pick it up. I have a GM script that fixes that if anyone is interested.

May 14, 2010

You are indeed correct in that the shape has to be defined.

However, the Polygon filter does that without GS's servers having to do the crunching.

7.7k · May 14, 2010

You are indeed correct in that the shape has to be defined.

However, the Polygon filter does that without GS's servers having to do the crunching.

1. There will be less crunching if a rectangular region is selected. To select a radius, floating point operations are necessary to calculate distance from a point. The obvious way of selecting caches within a circle involves lots of trigonometric functions. I'm actually very curious about how Groundspeak does it efficiently with a database with over a million geocaches, but I'm pretty sure they're not about to discuss it in an open forum

2. The motivation for this is to get geocaches in a region without overlap, to import into GSAK. Once the data is in GSAK I'm sure faina doesn't particularly care about the shape. But as have been pointed out, there are better ways of achieving what faina wants.

8.3k · May 15, 2010

I for one would like rectangular tile PQ's. Living in a land of islands and peninsulas circles basically suck. And I hate burning PQ's to get what I want.

Edited May 15, 2010 by jholly

1.1k · May 15, 2010

Implementing a "Square PQ" would seem to be easy using the current "Round PQ", you just need a checkbox to indicate that you want the largest square that will fit into the specified circle (i.e. radius would be distance to the corners). Rejection of excess can be done the same way as for the round (distance from center).

You can actually get pretty close to getting any shape polygon you want with the route PQ. Take a look at this route and you will see what I mean (you need to be a premium member to see this):

http://www.geocaching.com/my/userrouteedit...fd-3a92dfd867ed

I build these paths with Google Earth and select a route width before I start (this one assumes that a 3 mile width will be used). Getting a perfect square is fairly hard but getting a shape that will do what you want is not.

It is worthwhile to note that the rationale for the example is that both bridges to the south are toll bridges. The north west corner is sliced off because I get those data very frequently in my home PQ. I have the route starting point and endpoint within my shapes because of endpoint defects in the tool (perhaps that has been fixed by now).

7.7k · May 15, 2010

You can actually get pretty close to getting any shape polygon you want with the route PQ.

Hey, I like that! Nice!

May 17, 2010

I like Hynr solution!

Thanks to everybody for the discussion!!

I'm sure GS will take care of all our ideas

8.3k · May 17, 2010

You can actually get pretty close to getting any shape polygon you want with the route PQ.

As long as you have roads you can route on. The route PQ won't go where there is no road. I still would like to see a NW/SE definition for a rectangular PQ.

8.9k · May 17, 2010

Have or not PQ in my email is not a problem for me, because normally when I update my offline DB or plan my next geocaching tour I ask for a PQ and wait for its completion.

But I would like to suggest a new feature, hope this is the right place to do it

Sometimes have the possibility to ask for a "square" PocketQuery should be a great help.

I mean a PQ for the caches included, for example between N46 50.000 - N 46 80.000 and E013 10.000 - E013 40.000.

This will permit to cover the territory with "tiles" and to reduce the total number of PQ required.

This actually wouldn't be the place for this topic. Downloading the PQs by rectangle is a change in the selection process of PQs, not a change in the download interface.

Rectangular and polygon queries have been requested for quite some time, but as mentioned before, it can be done with routes. Take a look at the "polygon" I created for this demo.

You can actually get pretty close to getting any shape polygon you want with the route PQ.
As long as you have roads you can route on. The route PQ won't go where there is no road. I still would like to see a NW/SE definition for a rectangular PQ.

That is not true. That route I created in the link above was done in Streets and Trips with the polygon feature and does not adhere to any roads. Here's one that I did for Manhattan Island in New York City - users can use a 0.5 mile from route distance and get caches only on the island. It was also created with Streets and Trips. Using Google Earth's automatic route creation does require roads, but it CAN be done in other software.

</offtopic>

So - can we revert back to ideas for the download page if more exist?

Edited May 17, 2010 by Markwell

8.9k · May 17, 2010

<dup>

Edited May 17, 2010 by Markwell

7k · May 17, 2010

So - can we revert back to ideas for the download page if more exist?

gladly yes, but by now i'm wondering if there's really any use in discussing this any further...

2.7k · May 18, 2010

Grumble. Definitely desiring some sort of automated download system now. I kept all my PQs at 500 or less to avoid having them switched off. Logged in today and every single one of my PQs were unchecked. I have yet to create a 1000 cache PQ, so I'm not sure what to say here.

But "nothings changed" for people who rely on PQ emails my foot. I have 35 PQs to go back and reactivate now...

1.3k · May 18, 2010

Grumble. Definitely desiring some sort of automated download system now. I kept all my PQs at 500 or less to avoid having them switched off. Logged in today and every single one of my PQs were unchecked. I have yet to create a 1000 cache PQ, so I'm not sure what to say here.

But "nothings changed" for people who rely on PQ emails my foot. I have 35 PQs to go back and reactivate now...

I think they are trying to cut down on un-used PQ's and there is some collateral damage. I have a mix of 500 and 1,000 cache PQ's. I don;t rely on automation so so far it is working for me. I did find a program that will do a one click download to a specific folder. Catch is you have to click on each download link.

8.9k · May 18, 2010

I'm liking the download. Cut my time by 33%.

Just didn't want the conversation to sound one-sided.

1.4k · May 18, 2010

I think they are trying to cut down on un-used PQ's and there is some collateral damage.

UPDATE PocketQueries SET Active = 0 WHERE DATEDIFF(month, LastDownload , GETDATE()) > 1 AND RequestedCaches > 500

I don't see why there should be any collateral damage.

1.4k · May 18, 2010

I'm liking the download. Cut my time by 33%.

Are you grabbing them manually or with some download helper? How many do you download a day? Just curious.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Avernar

1.3k · May 18, 2010

I think they are trying to cut down on un-used PQ's and there is some collateral damage.

UPDATE PocketQueries SET Active = 0 WHERE DATEDIFF(month, LastDownload , GETDATE()) > 1 AND RequestedCaches > 500

I don't see why there should be any collateral damage.

Because the system does not know the difference between not downloading your PQ in the time they specify vs abandoning your PQ. It looks like they may be trying to limit the downloading of data that is never used.

8.9k · May 18, 2010

I download them manually, and update my offline database twice per week (that's fresh enough for me). I have two premium accounts and use 10 PQs for that download.

Here's my process:

I go to geocaching.com/pocket and click the downloads tab
Five clicks later and the GPX/ZIP files are sitting on my computer
Change accounts
Go to geocaching.com/pocket and click the downloads tab
Five clicks later and the GPX/ZIP files are sitting on my computer
Open GSAK, load the GPX/ZIP files from that one folder
Delete the caches that have a Last GPX date earlier than today
Run a macro to update counties, apply a user sort based on some various queries, etc.
All done

I wasn't using an automated macro from GSAK to grab from my account before. So where I picked up the speed was that with GMAIL here was my process:

Go to Gmail
Open up e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Move to the next e-mail
Wait for the Google virus scanner to check it
Click the download
Open GSAK, load the GPX/ZIP files from that one folder
Delete the caches that have a Last GPX date earlier than today
Run a macro to update counties, apply a user sort based on some various queries, etc.
All done

Edited May 18, 2010 by Markwell

Ideas for future PQ1K email or direct download link

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