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TillaMurphs

Dating Witness Posts?

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Hereabouts, the two most common pre-Carsonite witness posts are the wooden 4x4 with a top bevel that usually has “USBM” on the side, and the newer white metal embossed USGS sign with black lettering (photo for PA0352 below shows both types).

 

Does anyone know the approximate dates that these two marker types were introduced and retired?

 

418216c1-55fc-4baa-83af-93df2e1b3a16.jpg

Edited by TillaMurphs

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Can't help on the dates - but pay attention to those "white USGS signs" - for some are actually "white NGS signs". I've seen both now, and a few others with various changes in stamping.

 

-Me.

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I think the middle one displaying the Coast and Geodetic Survey appeared in the 1960's. I seem to recall some stations done here in 1965 have those placed at them.

 

MVC-004X.jpg

Edited by Z15

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There are at least 4 versions of metal U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey signs, and I only know of one version of NGS metal Witness Post signs. See my site on FLICKR at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/12262796@N06/4565722774/ for photos of the 5 signs. The USC&GS sign with the name STUDDS is from the period May 1950 to August 1955 when RADM Studds was the Director of the USC&GS. The sign with the 2-digit zip code is prior to Julyl 1963 when 5-digit codes came into usage. I have not seen any text references with dates for various Witness Posts.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

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I was just looking at the several metal Witness Post signs on my desk and noticed that one of the USC&GS signs has a 2-digit zip code and one has a 5-digit zip code. So, the 2-digit is pre-1963, and the 5-digit is between 1963 and 1970 (when NOAA was formed).

 

GeorgeL

NGS

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Pedantic comment: They weren't Zip codes until the 5-digit numbers were assigned. As I recall they were just called zone numbers before that and only large cities had them.

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And I thought I was going to be off-topic for saying that I've never dated a witness post! :ph34r:

Cuing Elvis:

Return to sender. Address unknown.

No such number. No such zone.

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I have seen the landscape style on marks dating from 1921 to 1962. History's indicate that the witness posts were erected from 1958 to 1963.

 

eb979fac-a041-43ed-ad24-72243fd9e320.jpg

 

JN0020 Set 1958, History 1958

 

UNK 1958 SN0876; 1921 1958 JN0103; 1927 1962 SN0830; 1931 1962 RV0057; 1958 1958 JN0102; 1963 RESET 1963 JN0101. This last one

was in a 1958 string and maybe the WP was recycled. kayakbird

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I like seeing these older ceramic on steel signs. I have seen a few of these landscape style ceramic on steel as Mike shows above, but most of the older styles in this area that are still standing are these portrait style. I would guess that the older are the landscape and then the portrait evolved into the steel and aluminum portrait style signs that we see in Z15's post.

 

Here is RX0366 from 1956

39787c28-162c-4a59-bca6-80eacb316eab.jpg1a9b4126-f6df-41dc-ba61-5f8e8e700508.jpg

 

Kurt

Edited by CallawayMT

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And I thought I was going to be off-topic for saying that I've never dated a witness post! :ph34r:

Cuing Elvis:

Return to sender. Address unknown.

No such number. No such zone.

 

...I knew it was only a matter of time. :)

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How about a redwood 4 X 4 and a Rock Cairn from 1899, or what's left of the post:

15b001cc-1c0e-4d86-a31c-966dee7f2f55.jpg

Seriously, that is what they used on the 1898 - 1899 survey up and down the CA - NV Oblique boundary.

Actually, many of them are in better condition that this one. Amazing what the Mojave desert climate will preserve.

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This could be considered a very early, permanent, metal witness post. It is the standpipe and cap of MORC BM 1-1 on river right across from Fort Benton, Montana;

possibly set on 5 July 1885, the day after the steamer Missouri arrived there from St Louis with caps, pipes and quarried 18X18X4 in stones.

 

bb5ef4fb-7a4a-49cf-92f4-ddf06cbef0dd.jpg

 

Permission has been granted by the landowner to plumb up this four foot long, 4 in diameter pipe over the 120 pound buried stone. This would

have to be done before the rounded knob could be used for non-precision work. For precision work the bolted on cap would be removed and the

level rod placed on the top of a copper bolt that projects from a center hole in the stone.

 

Anybody want to get in on that digging project later this summer? And then make a level run to its mate in the Chouteau County Courthouse lawn, where

it looks to be in perfect condition - might need to soak the rusty nut with WD-40 for a few hours.

 

97a06360-e70b-4ba4-8254-9ed25275ebf1.jpg

 

SS0546

 

It appears that at least half of the 270 plus MORC bench marks that were placed in Montana have survived and about 50% of those still have their caps;

but very few achieved PID status. Information just now received from CallawayMT suggests that they would have had to have been occupied during a

subsequent level run to make it into the Data Sheet; something that did not happen in a lot of of the Missouri Breaks.

 

One more to show how far out of the ground they normally protrude.

 

c0d34414-7002-42a2-88c7-ec466ced584b.jpg

 

SS0713

 

Specific details above take from Nebraska's Early Geodetic Surveys by Jerold F. Penry - a great read. kayakbird

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I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the white truck in the lower right corner of the last photo belongs to kayakbird?

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I am going to go out on a limb and guess that the white truck in the lower right corner of the last photo belongs to kayakbird?

Yep. Do you still have a mircometer in your tool bucket? MEL

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