Loaning my canoe to find a cache

[+moparots]

Sunday I placed a series of three caches on a short river between two lakes on a chain of lakes, about 3 miles from my house. On the cache pages I stated that any local cachers that I know could email me and borrow my canoe. One fellah that I knew took me up on the deal, he and his friend loaded up the canoe, and off they went.

 

They were gone longer than it took me to hide the caches, by myself. I thought about the possibilities of their situation, they were slow paddlers, the canoe fell off their Durango, they were swimming back after losing the canoe, they were God forbid, "Gatorbait" or drowned, OR maybe they stopped at the local watering hole to celebrate three FTFs.

 

They made it back safe and sound, loved the experiance and were very appreciative of the canoe offer. Plus I got first hand stories of their experiance. Which is why I edited the cache page to say, "put your I Phone in a Ziplock baggie"

 

I was just curious what everone thought about the legalities of offering my canoe on the cache page.

[+DragonsWest]

Sunday I placed a series of three caches on a short river between two lakes on a chain of lakes, about 3 miles from my house. On the cache pages I stated that any local cachers that I know could email me and borrow my canoe. One fellah that I knew took me up on the deal, he and his friend loaded up the canoe, and off they went.

 

They were gone longer than it took me to hide the caches, by myself. I thought about the possibilities of their situation, they were slow paddlers, the canoe fell off their Durango, they were swimming back after losing the canoe, they were God forbid, "Gatorbait" or drowned, OR maybe they stopped at the local watering hole to celebrate three FTFs.

 

They made it back safe and sound, loved the experiance and were very appreciative of the canoe offer. Plus I got first hand stories of their experiance. Which is why I edited the cache page to say, "put your I Phone in a Ziplock baggie"

 

I was just curious what everone thought about the legalities of offering my canoe on the cache page.

 

I think as long as you don't charge rent on the canoe you are likely clear.

 

As to any injuries or damage to your canoe, I think you may want to consult your homeowner's insurance agent.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I would make sure that they bring their own PFD's and promise to use them.

I have borrowed a friend's bicycle to ride about 5 miles on a road closed to motor vehicles to find one of her caches. From where I parked the bike, it was another mile up a mountain. I hope you used the terrain 5 if finding the caches requires watercraft.

[+thedeadpirate]

My first thought would be you would have no liability, since you merely loaned the canoe out. Logically, one would think the folks using the canoe would be responsible for their own actions.

 

However, having watched much more Judge Judy than I care to admit, I understand that when people loan their vehicles out to others that they can and are often held responsible for the actions of the drivers, even if they are not in the vehicle at the time of an accident.

 

So, I guess you really would want to get the advice of a lawyer to be certain.

Edited April 27, 2010 by GeoBain

[+moparots]

I supply two paddles and a legal PFD, and yes its a five star.

 

My mind was racing a bit when they seemed overdue, I may take the loaner statement off the cache page after the locals that I know all find it.

[+Chrysalides]

My mind was racing a bit when they seemed overdue, I may take the loaner statement off the cache page after the locals that I know all find it.

If you know a place where they can rent a canoe, I'm sure the info would be much appreciated by cachers in the area.

 

I do not know to what account you will be liable if they get into trouble and decide to sue. It's a sad world we live in.

[+pmolan]

Up by me everyone get sued for everything. "You didnt tell me that I needed to know HOW to paddle a canoe!" "You didnt tell me that your canoe pulls to the left!"

[+bittsen]

I can't imagine you would have any more liability for someone borowing your canoe than the store does for selling it to you.

I don't recall ever seeing a liability agreement on anything I have purchased other than a car.

[+moparots]

Yeah, its sad that it seems like everyone is sue happy, but the FTF log of the cacher who borrowed the canoe and his thank you note made it all worth while.

 

Read his log on this cache page. GC27EX8

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...6a-e870df5cbae3

 

Of course I think it sucks he ruined his phone, but they did say they had a GREAT time.

Edited April 27, 2010 by moparots

[+DragonsWest]

Before going out in a kayak I made sure I had a Personal Floatation Device for my GPSr (I have some key floats from a local brewer) tied to the unit. It's supposed to be water resistant, but bouyant it ain't.

[+Max and 99]

We let locals know that we are happy to loan them our kayaks for caching. In fact, someone asked us just about a week ago if we could team up for a 5 terrain FTF that required a boat, and we were happy to oblige.

I would be very upset if anyone sued me for something that happened while they borrowed my kayaks! That would take a lot of nerve.

 

If someone borrows one of my gps units and gets hurt while out geocaching, am I liable?

[+Lil Devil]

Before going out in a kayak I made sure I had a Personal Floatation Device for my GPSr (I have some key floats from a local brewer) tied to the unit. It's supposed to be water resistant, but bouyant it ain't.

Slightly off-topic for this thread, but I wanted to point out that lithium batteries are a fraction of the weight of normal batteries, and with the 60CSx and several other units they are light enough that the GPS is quite buoyant with them.

[+thedeadpirate]

It's a shame that we even find the need to discuss liability on something like this.

 

If it were me, I would probably post on our local caching site with the same offer instead of posting it on the cache page.

 

Of course, chances are that cachers you know will be the only ones to actually take you up on the offer anyway.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Before going out in a kayak I made sure I had a Personal Floatation Device for my GPSr (I have some key floats from a local brewer) tied to the unit. It's supposed to be water resistant, but bouyant it ain't.

Slightly off-topic for this thread, but I wanted to point out that lithium batteries are a fraction of the weight of normal batteries, and with the 60CSx and several other units they are light enough that the GPS is quite buoyant with them.

 

I've got a Garmin 76Cx which is not only water resistant but allegedly floats. As an avid kayaker I thought that particular attribute might some day be useful but I've never confirmed it.

 

There is a cache not far from where I live which requires equipment to repel down the side of a cliff to retrieve the cache. The CO has offered his climbing equipment and assistance to find it and most of the logs I've read mention meeting up with the CO there, often as a group, to find the cache.

[+pppingme]

I can't imagine you would have any more liability for someone borowing your canoe than the store does for selling it to you.

I don't recall ever seeing a liability agreement on anything I have purchased other than a car.

WRONG!!!

 

When you buy a canoe it comes with an owners manual and warning stickers all over it. Before you use it you're supposed to read all of that.

 

Unless you have kept all of that info and make any "borrower" read it, then yes, you do indeed have a level of liability.

 

Liability laws vary from state to state, but as a general rule, if a piece of equipment is involved in an injury, the owner of that equipment does indeed have some level of liability.

[+Chokecherry]

The canoe outfitters here (where people borrow canoes for trips) have people sign waivers. There's a bunch of liability issues that get involved for them people inexperienced canoeing and ending up in any number of problem situations is one. The other is drunken people canoeing and ending up in problem situations. Then you get the people that dump the canoe and lose all their stuff in the process and want the owner to pay for replacements for all their stuff. Etc.

 

I would lend my canoe or whatever to a known or trusted friend who I knew could handle it but not to Joe Average geocacher.

[+Chrysalides]

I can't imagine you would have any more liability for someone borowing your canoe than the store does for selling it to you.

I don't recall ever seeing a liability agreement on anything I have purchased other than a car.

WRONG!!!

Oh boy, you done it. Now the Genius is going to tell you that all he said is that he can't imagine and that he can't recall, so he's not wrong.

[+bflentje]

My first thought would be you would have no liability, since you merely loaned the canoe out. Logically, one would think the folks using the canoe would be responsible for their own actions.

 

However, having watched much more Judge Judy than I care to admit, I understand that when people loan their vehicles out to others that they can and are often held responsible for the actions of the drivers, even if they are not in the vehicle at the time of an accident.

 

So, I guess you really would want to get the advice of a lawyer to be certain.

 

Yep, liability is the biggest issue I see. Forget about the renting nonsense. If someone drowns using your boat or if it flies off the car and hits another vehicle, guess who they be coming after? Personally, I wouldn't be loaning OR renting my boat to anyone except my closest family or friends.

[+bflentje]

I can't imagine you would have any more liability for someone borowing your canoe than the store does for selling it to you.

I don't recall ever seeing a liability agreement on anything I have purchased other than a car.

 

Hey Bittsen, may I please borrow your canoe?

[+bflentje]

It's a shame that we even find the need to discuss liability on something like this.

 

If it were me, I would probably post on our local caching site with the same offer instead of posting it on the cache page.

 

Of course, chances are that cachers you know will be the only ones to actually take you up on the offer anyway.

 

I agree, a complete shame but also a complete reality.

[+Team Cotati]

Sunday I placed a series of three caches on a short river between two lakes on a chain of lakes, about 3 miles from my house. On the cache pages I stated that any local cachers that I know could email me and borrow my canoe. One fellah that I knew took me up on the deal, he and his friend loaded up the canoe, and off they went.

 

They were gone longer than it took me to hide the caches, by myself. I thought about the possibilities of their situation, they were slow paddlers, the canoe fell off their Durango, they were swimming back after losing the canoe, they were God forbid, "Gatorbait" or drowned, OR maybe they stopped at the local watering hole to celebrate three FTFs.

 

They made it back safe and sound, loved the experiance and were very appreciative of the canoe offer. Plus I got first hand stories of their experiance. Which is why I edited the cache page to say, "put your I Phone in a Ziplock baggie"

 

I was just curious what everone thought about the legalities of offering my canoe on the cache page.

 

Well let's put it this way. If you 'loan' someone a bicycle that has defective brakes and you knew or should have known about it and they get seriously injured.....you could be in seriously deep yogurt.

 

Any time that you let someone borrow your stuff or invite them into your home, you assume a degree of liability. You have a carpeted stair case and the carpet is in need of repair....well you get the picture.

 

While you can't live in constant fear of liability exposure, you can be cautious.

Me? I wouldn't do it.

[+bittsen]

Oh boy, you done it. Now the Genius is going to tell you that all he said is that he can't imagine and that he can't recall, so he's not wrong.

I hadn't considered that as a response. Thanks.

 

I can't imagine you would have any more liability for someone borowing your canoe than the store does for selling it to you.

I don't recall ever seeing a liability agreement on anything I have purchased other than a car.

 

Hey Bittsen, may I please borrow your canoe?

Yeah, let me get my auger first.

[+BulldogBlitz]

Sunday I placed a series of three caches on a short river between two lakes on a chain of lakes, about 3 miles from my house. On the cache pages I stated that any local cachers that I know could email me and borrow my canoe. One fellah that I knew took me up on the deal, he and his friend loaded up the canoe, and off they went.

 

They were gone longer than it took me to hide the caches, by myself. I thought about the possibilities of their situation, they were slow paddlers, the canoe fell off their Durango, they were swimming back after losing the canoe, they were God forbid, "Gatorbait" or drowned, OR maybe they stopped at the local watering hole to celebrate three FTFs.

 

They made it back safe and sound, loved the experiance and were very appreciative of the canoe offer. Plus I got first hand stories of their experiance. Which is why I edited the cache page to say, "put your I Phone in a Ziplock baggie"

 

I was just curious what everone thought about the legalities of offering my canoe on the cache page.

 

LOL... make it a multi-cache, first stage is getting to the canoe. the canoe seat has the co-ordinates for the other leg.

[+DragonsWest]

It's a shame that we even find the need to discuss liability on something like this.

 

If it were me, I would probably post on our local caching site with the same offer instead of posting it on the cache page.

 

Of course, chances are that cachers you know will be the only ones to actually take you up on the offer anyway.

 

I agree, a complete shame but also a complete reality.

 

IANAL, but I do understand that certain circumstances could place the canoe owner in a delicate position, particularly regarding fitness and inspection of the water craft, instruction, full disclosure of the risks someone may encounter, et al. It sounds ridiculous, but attorneys have a way of ripping past our generalizations, rationalizations and assumptions when they are going after us in court because someone was loaned a canoe and was attacked by an alligator, drown, was injured in the canoe, improperly fastened the canoe to their vehicle for transport, cut themselves on a sharp bit in the canoe and the cut became infected, they had a heart attack, (to say nothing of being chomped by a queen snake.)

 

Even if the lender is completely blameless a lawsuit and legal fees necessary to defend during a lengthy exploration of fault and blame could bankrupt a person (one of my larger gripes with how tort law is practiced in the USA: the lack of assuming personal responsibility and inherent risk of certain activities and ruining others as a result.)

[+BulldogBlitz]

Even if the lender is completely blameless a lawsuit and legal fees necessary to defend during a lengthy exploration of fault and blame could bankrupt a person

 

...and that is just from the snippy person trying to get an FTF...

 

[4wheelin_fool]

There is not too much you could be held liable for in lending a canoe out.

 

If they did not know the weight capacity and exceeded it, or if it had a leak. Even that would be debatable.

 

You could always print out the Terms and Conditions of this site, and cross out a bunch of stuff and write "canoe" in place, and have them sign it.