Fire Department Response!

[Clan Riffster]

Why does that exchange remind me of a certain scene in Caddyshack...

Now you've got me thinking of the Caddyshack II scene where Bill molded plastique into little animal shapes.

Perhaps Johnny Public should fear gophers? After all, they could be bombs! Bunnies too!

 

#1 Pennsylvania Forest Fire Warden

#2 Pennsylvania Bureau of Forestry-State Forest Officer

OK, that explains a lot.

 

That incident could've been handled by the first cop on site in about 5 minutes.

No need to have the military make a 4 hour drive.

[+SubyJeff]

Edited April 22, 2010 by SubyJeff

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Best pic ever! That gave me the best laugh I've had in weeks, thanks!

[+GreenShrubs]

Deputy Goofus buys into the whole "can't take any risks" idiocy, and calls his supervisor, advising them of their findings.

 

So you are saying that, if a police department were informed of geocaching.com's free premium accounts for law enforcement that they do actually have time to look up the location to see if it's a geocache or not?

 

 

 

Did I miss something here?

[+thedeadpirate]

Deputy Goofus buys into the whole "can't take any risks" idiocy, and calls his supervisor, advising them of their findings.

 

So you are saying that, if a police department were informed of geocaching.com's free premium accounts for law enforcement that they do actually have time to look up the location to see if it's a geocache or not?

 

 

 

Did I miss something here?

 

Only if you haven't been keeping up.

[+jeffbouldin]

Why does that exchange remind me of a certain scene in Caddyshack...

Now you've got me thinking of the Caddyshack II scene where Bill molded plastique into little animal shapes.

Perhaps Johnny Public should fear gophers? After all, they could be bombs! Bunnies too!

 

Sorry CR I'm going to have to ask you to turn in your guy card. Bill Murray blowing up the golf course with plastic explosives molded to look like gophers was in the first Caddyshack.

Edited April 22, 2010 by jeffbouldin

[+The Cache Checkers]

Hi all,

 

It seems to me that everyone over reacts and in some cases I think it's warranted. There are some pretty messed up individuals in this world. I don't watch the news as often as I use to because the reporters are just too eager and excited to report somebody's misfortune or tragedy. I think it's probably the same for our first responders. When that adrenaline gets a pumping, I think their body is raring to go for the action, even though it's just over a report of something small under a lamp post.

 

My only experience so far, and I hope it'll ever be my only experience, is when my mom, fighting against breast cancer that had matastized into her bones, found herself off balance when she closed a car door and fell to the ground. My sister, who was already stressed and afraid for our mom and the only one home with her at that moment, panicked and called 9-1-1 after mom said she couldn't get up and that she felt her arm break (her bones were very fragile).

 

I pulled into the driveway as my sobbing sister was still on the phone. To make a long story short, I had a police car and an ambulance and a fire truck come to my house on a quiet, dirt country road. If I had been home I would have calmed my sister down and got my mom into the car and taken her to the hospital to avoid the scene and the bill, but my sister was scared and 9-1-1 is there for when we're scared.

 

I asked the police man there why he and the fire truck came as well and he said it was how they did it. That a unit of each kind is sent because they don't know what they will find when they get here.

 

I tend to ramble on when I write, but face to face I don't talk much! LOL I think education is the key here. On one hand, I'd love to see a news broadcast talk about geocaching and the events, good and not so good, that happen because of it, but on the other, I don't want the hobby so publicly known for my own selfish reasons.

[+sbell111]

Deputy Goofus buys into the whole "can't take any risks" idiocy, and calls his supervisor, advising them of their findings.

So you are saying that, if a police department were informed of geocaching.com's free premium accounts for law enforcement that they do actually have time to look up the location to see if it's a geocache or not?

 

If that is the case, then yes, we should do a better job of getting the word out. ...

According to the article about the most recent event and the OP of this thread, it took 60-65 people five hours to identify the film can as being safe. Based on this, it appears that they had both time and personnel available to pop over to GC.com. Edited April 22, 2010 by sbell111

[+larryc43230]

According to the article about the most recent event and the OP of this thread, it took 60-65 people five hours to identify the film can as being safe. Based on this, it appears that they had both time and personnel available to pop over to GC.com.

Every time I see a suggestion that public safety forces check the GC Web site before blowing up a suspicious package, a question comes to mind: Even if it's determined that a cache has been hidden in the immediate vicinity, how will they know that the container they're investigating is actually the cache they found on the Web site? A geocaching label would tend to add to the likelihood that it's a harmless cache, but the vast majority of micros hidden in parking lots (at least in my experience) don't have one of those labels, at least not on the outside.

 

I'm not at all convinced that an LEO, after looking up a location on the Web site and finding there's a cache nearby, would simply smile, assume that's what they're dealing with, and walk away from it.

 

--Larry

[+lil_cav_wings]

Why does that exchange remind me of a certain scene in Caddyshack...

Now you've got me thinking of the Caddyshack II scene where Bill molded plastique into little animal shapes.

Perhaps Johnny Public should fear gophers? After all, they could be bombs! Bunnies too!

 

Sorry CR I'm going to have to ask you to turn in your guy card. Bill Murray blowing up the golf course with plastic explosives molded to look like gophers was in the first Caddyshack.

 

I believe that Lil Devil was refering the "Baby Ruth- Dookie in the Pool" where Bill Murray shows us the value of the 5-Step Decision Making Process. Yep, it was the original Caddyshack...

 

I don't think that it's either a failure of the law enforcement or the geocaching community. Everyone did exactly what they were trained and equiped to do in a circumstance like that.

 

It comes down to the average American really believing that everything is out to get them (because American society is generally crude and violent??) and that they can't make a single informed choice for themselves. Aside from the masses of fire trucks, policemen, bomb squad dudes all dressed up in their little bomb squad outfits, there was a normal person who actually thought "Hey, I bet those people over there are a cell of Taliban bombmakers, and they really want to teach America a painful lesson about it's lazy, western ways... BY BLOWING UP THIS LIGHTPOST." That normal person called that bomb threat in, and started the evil circle of doom, which culminated in this thread! The average American doesn't want to engage in a 5-step thought process that leads to them opting for a smarter response than calling 911. They just want to save the day and blame someone else for the energy and time of the first responders that was wasted.

 

Okay, I'm done ranting like a crazy old cat lady who watches too much Glenn Beck...

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

[+thedeadpirate]

Every time I see a suggestion that public safety forces check the GC Web site before blowing up a suspicious package, a question comes to mind: Even if it's determined that a cache has been hidden in the immediate vicinity, how will they know that the container they're investigating is actually the cache they found on the Web site? A geocaching label would tend to add to the likelihood that it's a harmless cache, but the vast majority of micros hidden in parking lots (at least in my experience) don't have one of those labels, at least not on the outside.

 

I'm not at all convinced that an LEO, after looking up a location on the Web site and finding there's a cache nearby, would simply smile, assume that's what they're dealing with, and walk away from it.

 

--Larry

 

But, if it were properly labeled AND it was listed on the site AND it appeared to be harmless, then MOST (I making a huge assumption here) law enforcement officers would be more willing to open the container to verify the contents and THEN walk away from it BEFORE calling in a full response complete with EOD and the media.

[knowschad]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

I think I would want to know who reported it, and why they thought it was "suspcious". After taking those things into consideration, as well as a few other details, such as, is there a motive for placing a bomb here, I'd probably believe that it was a geocache, if someone said, "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it".

[+thedeadpirate]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

 

Seriously? Then you really should give up geocaching because that is exactly what you are doing now.

[+sbell111]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

The police are already evaluating the object to determine whether the thing is harmless prior to calling out the bomb squad and tying up the neighborhood for five hours. This would just be one small step of that evaluation.

 

Consider the situation that spawned this thread: A couple people were seen placing a small object under a lamppost. The officer who came to check it out had no real reason to suspect that it was a bomb. It could have been some wacky drug drop or a silly internet game. Heck, it could have been nothing at all.

 

Given that there was no specific reason to jump to the idea that it was a bomb, checking to see if there was a geocache hidden in that exact spot would simply be prudent. If GC.com does show a geocache at that spot and the description of the geocache matches the description of the suspicious container, then it's reasonable to believe that the object in question is a geocache.

[+Jeep4two]

There is a simple solution to all this and I'm sure there's a lobbyist group somewhere willing to take up the cause.

 

Simply take away everyone's cell phones - and replace them with <insert your favorite GPSr name here>.

 

A true national stimulus package. Fewer unwarranted calls to 911 relieving an overtaxed emergency response system. Reduced Obesity rates and cardiovascular problems (everyone will be out caching) helping to relieve the health care system of American allowing researchers to really focus on curing real diseases. Huge boost to monthly savings of the average American who won't need to spend that $50/month per cell phone user allowing people to actually buy a car or house and put some money down reduce their payments and maybe avoid foreclosure should times get a little tight. I can imagine lots of other benefits.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

 

Seriously? Then you really should give up geocaching because that is exactly what you are doing now.

You can't see the difference between getting the coordinates for a cache from geocaching.com and using a GPS to navigate to that location to hunt for a hidden object, and being a police officer who gets a call from a citizen who reports that he saw a suspicious-looking character hide some sort of container under the electrical access cover of a utility pole in a public parking lot?

 

Really? Those are the same to you?

 

I will pick up a geocache in a heartbeat... right up until someone tells me that they believe it is filled with anthrax and the pros are on the way to check it out. That bit of info changes the whole story.

[+Castle Mischief]

According to the article about the most recent event and the OP of this thread, it took 60-65 people five hours to identify the film can as being safe. Based on this, it appears that they had both time and personnel available to pop over to GC.com.

Every time I see a suggestion that public safety forces check the GC Web site before blowing up a suspicious package, a question comes to mind: Even if it's determined that a cache has been hidden in the immediate vicinity, how will they know that the container they're investigating is actually the cache they found on the Web site? A geocaching label would tend to add to the likelihood that it's a harmless cache, but the vast majority of micros hidden in parking lots (at least in my experience) don't have one of those labels, at least not on the outside.

 

I'm not at all convinced that an LEO, after looking up a location on the Web site and finding there's a cache nearby, would simply smile, assume that's what they're dealing with, and walk away from it.

 

--Larry

 

And yet more than one of the LEOs on these forums have done just that.

[+Castle Mischief]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

 

Seriously? Then you really should give up geocaching because that is exactly what you are doing now.

You can't see the difference between getting the coordinates for a cache from geocaching.com and using a GPS to navigate to that location to hunt for a hidden object, and being a police officer who gets a call from a citizen who reports that he saw a suspicious-looking character hide some sort of container under the electrical access cover of a utility pole in a public parking lot?

 

Really? Those are the same to you?

 

I will pick up a geocache in a heartbeat... right up until someone tells me that they believe it is filled with anthrax and the pros are on the way to check it out. That bit of info changes the whole story.

 

So all the hypothetical geocaches filled with hypothetical anthrax that Joe Public has not yet placed a call to the cops about- picking all those up are okay?

 

...Because you are doing that right now.

[knowschad]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

 

Seriously? Then you really should give up geocaching because that is exactly what you are doing now.

You can't see the difference between getting the coordinates for a cache from geocaching.com and using a GPS to navigate to that location to hunt for a hidden object, and being a police officer who gets a call from a citizen who reports that he saw a suspicious-looking character hide some sort of container under the electrical access cover of a utility pole in a public parking lot?

 

Really? Those are the same to you?

 

I will pick up a geocache in a heartbeat... right up until someone tells me that they believe it is filled with anthrax and the pros are on the way to check it out. That bit of info changes the whole story.

If the officer knows that there is supposed to be a geocache hidden there, and is aware that what was seen fits the M.O. of a geocacher, I think there is reasonable evidence to believe that the "suspicious person" (whatever that means!) was indeed a geocacher replacing a geocache.

[+thedeadpirate]

I can tell you that if I am the guy who has to walk up and take that reported suspicious object in hand I am NOT going to trust someone telling me "Hey, I looked online, it's supposed to be a geocache. See, it's even got one a them labels on it"

Seriously? Then you really should give up geocaching because that is exactly what you are doing now.

You can't see the difference between getting the coordinates for a cache from geocaching.com and using a GPS to navigate to that location to hunt for a hidden object, and being a police officer who gets a call from a citizen who reports that he saw a suspicious-looking character hide some sort of container under the electrical access cover of a utility pole in a public parking lot?

 

Really? Those are the same to you?

 

I will pick up a geocache in a heartbeat... right up until someone tells me that they believe it is filled with anthrax and the pros are on the way to check it out. That bit of info changes the whole story.

Everytime you go out and open a cache, you are trusting that the person who placed it did so with good intentions.

 

An LEO would not be opening that container based purely on the fact that it has a label. He would not be opening it based purely on the fact that it was listed on GC.com. He should be opening it and verifying its contents based on ALL the available information. If everything doesn't add up or the hairs on the back of his neck stand up, then by all means, call in the bomb squad. But YOU should be doing the same thing.

[+DanOCan]

I am not a LEO, but let me tell you this -- if I had even the slightest inclination that it could be a bomb I'm not even going to lift the lamppost skirt to see a label on the container. I don't know anything about bombs beyond what I see on TV and in movies, but wouldn't the skirt be a good place to put some sort of pressure trigger or something?

 

That being said, I wish the average citizen would be a lot less paranoid and realize that not everyone is out to get him/her.

[knowschad]

I am not a LEO, but let me tell you this -- if I had even the slightest inclination that it could be a bomb I'm not even going to lift the lamppost skirt to see a label on the container. I don't know anything about bombs beyond what I see on TV and in movies, but wouldn't the skirt be a good place to put some sort of pressure trigger or something?

 

That being said, I wish the average citizen would be a lot less paranoid and realize that not everyone is out to get him/her.

And how would you get that "slightest inclination"? Based on what somebody getting into their car in the parking lot said looked suspicious to them? If they said that it was because they thought the person looked sneaky and put something under that light pole skirt, and you knew about geocaching, wouldn't you chuckle and say, "Shoot... its probably just a geocacher. Let me check on my iPhone if there's a cache over there..." (later) "Yup... its just a geocache... nothing to worry about."

 

To just take some citizen's word that something looked "suspicious" and call out the army is just plain foolish without looking at the bigger picture.

 

To the 2nd paragraph of your post... I agree.

[+SubyJeff]

Best pic ever! That gave me the best laugh I've had in weeks, thanks!

one more, just cause i'm bored

[+thedeadpirate]

[+GeoGeeBee]

but wouldn't the skirt be a good place to put some sort of pressure trigger or something?

 

 

I don't know anything about bombs, either. Nor do I have any special insight into the minds of terrorists.

 

But let me ask you this: If you were a terrorist, and you were going to place a bomb somewhere, why would you put it in a lamp skirt with a pressure trigger? How often do those things get lifted up, anyway?

 

The only terrorist who would put a bomb with a pressure trigger tied to a lamp skirt would be a terrorist who was specifically targeting geocachers.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

The only terrorist who would put a bomb with a pressure trigger tied to a lamp skirt would be a terrorist who was specifically targeting geocachers.

Kinda sorta like Ted Kaczynski, maybe?

[+GeoGeeBee]

The only terrorist who would put a bomb with a pressure trigger tied to a lamp skirt would be a terrorist who was specifically targeting geocachers.

Kinda sorta like Ted Kaczynski, maybe?

 

I'm not sure what the Unabomber reference is about... most of his bombs were mailed to the intended target. Two were left in parking lots, but they weren't hidden under lamp skirts... if they were, they probably would still be there.