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Yet Aother bomb squadded lamp post (Anaheim)


benh57
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A local resident saw my 4x4 vehicle go up the hill on a dirt road, thought it was suspicious, and called the authorities.

 

Calling in a 4x4 going off-road is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. Education would go a long way to helping prevent waste of time, money and resources but at some point, you just can't fix stupid.

I was returning from a cache in a wooded suburban park one day, when a neighbor that was out in his yard asked me in an accusatory way what I was doing. I was tempted to ignore him because of his tone, but instead, I decided to take a second and explain geocaching to him. I then asked him why he had asked me that. "Because I thought that was a camera", he said, pointing at my GPSr.

 

:rolleyes:;):unsure:

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It simply doesn't make sense to blindly go forward with multiple engines and bomb squads on a suspicious objects. Who was the first responder? Probably a cop. What was his take? What is his attitude?

 

I remember hearing radio traffic on a suspicious package at a Sears once. The responding officer advised he was en route and immediately afterward another officer requested he go the "talk channel." I flipped over and there was talk about being careful and look for wires. I could hear the eye-rolling from the responding officer. He shows up and it's two pieces of luggage at the loading area. The luggage looked like regular luggage. He took in the totality of the situation and concluded that someone took the luggage out of their car to get something loaded into the car and forgot to put the luggage back in. Sure enough, the luggage was completely empty. No bomb. Go figure. ...and didn't need a bomb squad to figure that out either.

 

I think a lot of first responders are thinking "this is the big one!" While a safe approach is logical, one has to ask where to draw the line where the response causes more public alarm than the object of attention in the first place.

 

Sometimes there is a bit of overreaction as a matter of policy.

 

Why do firetrucks respond to reports of injuries? It happens around here quite a bit. A guy is choking in a restaurant, or down the beach having chest pains; you would expect EMTs and possibly a police officer, but a firetruck? It only seems like a way to waste taxpayers monies and attract more gawkers.

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Bone of contention #2: Using a quote as a "proof" is the 2nd lamest act on the internet. It doesn't prove that you are right, it doesn't provide any facts- all it does is show that somewhere in the annals of time some other person had a similar thought as you or said something that semi-relates to the topic at hand. I don't care if you pull a Winston Churchill quote from a Google search- it's not like Winston rose from the grave, held a press conference and said "I am Zombie Churchill, and I support this post".

Just to help you prove your point:

 

Collecting quotations is an insidious, even embarrassing habit, like ragpicking or hoarding rocks or trying on other people's laundry. I got into it originally while trying to break an addiction to candy. I kicked candy and now seem to be stuck with quotations, which are attacking my brain instead of my teeth. ~Robert Byrne, The Other 637 Best Things Anybody Ever Said, "Sources, References, and Notes," 1984

 

It is my belief that nearly any invented quotation, played with confidence, stands a good chance to deceive. ~Mark Twain, Following the Equator

 

I hate quotations. Tell me what you know. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson, Journals and Miscellaneous Notebooks, May 1849

 

Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired. ~Richard Kemph

 

:rolleyes:

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Sometimes there is a bit of overreaction as a matter of policy.

 

Why do firetrucks respond to reports of injuries? It happens around here quite a bit. A guy is choking in a restaurant, or down the beach having chest pains; you would expect EMTs and possibly a police officer, but a firetruck? It only seems like a way to waste taxpayers monies and attract more gawkers.

 

The new standard for emergency response is that firefighters are cross-trained/certified as Emergency Medical Technicians [EMT] or Paramedics. Some departments require an additional certification in trauma counseling. This is why a fire department vehicle will respond to a call that is not a fire. Fire Departments often have ambulance type vehicles that can transport people to emergency medical centers. This is not an overreaction, it's response. Did you know that firefighters can deliver babies, too? You'd thinking running into towering infernos would be enough, but gone are the days when firefighters responded only to fires and cats stuck in trees. A lot of firefighters will work in emergency rooms or drive for private ambulance companies on their days off to earn extra money and they are qualified to do so because of their medical certifications. While LEOs have enormous training for many scenarios, you don't dispatch them to respond to medical emergencies to administer emergency medical care. That's just not what they are here to do.

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To add to that post, it is my understanding that it comes down to getting trained medical assistance to the scene as quick as possible. If you call 911 with a medical emergency and the fire station is a few minutes closer to you than EMS is, you are likely to have a fire truck show up at your house and start getting medical care just a few minutes sooner. That few minutes may save your life.

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Sometimes there is a bit of overreaction as a matter of policy.

 

Why do firetrucks respond to reports of injuries? It happens around here quite a bit. A guy is choking in a restaurant, or down the beach having chest pains; you would expect EMTs and possibly a police officer, but a firetruck? It only seems like a way to waste taxpayers monies and attract more gawkers.

 

The new standard for emergency response is that firefighters are cross-trained/certified as Emergency Medical Technicians [EMT] or Paramedics. Some departments require an additional certification in trauma counseling. This is why a fire department vehicle will respond to a call that is not a fire. Fire Departments often have ambulance type vehicles that can transport people to emergency medical centers. This is not an overreaction, it's response. Did you know that firefighters can deliver babies, too? You'd thinking running into towering infernos would be enough, but gone are the days when firefighters responded only to fires and cats stuck in trees. A lot of firefighters will work in emergency rooms or drive for private ambulance companies on their days off to earn extra money and they are qualified to do so because of their medical certifications. While LEOs have enormous training for many scenarios, you don't dispatch them to respond to medical emergencies to administer emergency medical care. That's just not what they are here to do.

 

Thats pretty cool! I'm glad that they are cross-trained in that area. It's just that firetrucks are massive multi-ton machines which are fairly slow and ambulances are much quicker. What I've seen is that a huge firetruck shows up while the ambulance is already there. It's just such an odd sight.

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Thats pretty cool! I'm glad that they are cross-trained in that area. It's just that firetrucks are massive multi-ton machines which are fairly slow and ambulances are much quicker. What I've seen is that a huge firetruck shows up while the ambulance is already there. It's just such an odd sight.

I'm guessing here, but I know that ambulance personnel will not enter a building where a violent crime has occurred until law enforcement clears it first.

 

It's possible that although an ambulance has been called to the scene that the firefighters are also called due to the potential risks involved.

 

While a firefighter may be crossed trained to serve as an EMT, I doubt a lot of EMTs are crossed trained as firefighters.

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Bone of contention #2: Using a quote as a "proof" is the 2nd lamest act on the internet. It doesn't prove that you are right, it doesn't provide any facts- all it does is show that somewhere in the annals of time some other person had a similar thought as you or said something that semi-relates to the topic at hand. I don't care if you pull a Winston Churchill quote from a Google search- it's not like Winston rose from the grave, held a press conference and said "I am Zombie Churchill, and I support this post".

Just to help you prove your point:

 

Collecting quotations is an insidious, even embarrassing habit, like ragpicking or hoarding rocks or trying on other people's laundry. I got into it originally while trying to break an addiction to candy. I kicked candy and now seem to be stuck with quotations, which are attacking my brain instead of my teeth. ~Robert Byrne, The Other 637 Best Things Anybody Ever Said, "Sources, References, and Notes," 1984

 

It is my belief that nearly any invented quotation, played with confidence, stands a good chance to deceive. ~Mark Twain, Following the Equator

 

I hate quotations. Tell me what you know. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson, Journals and Miscellaneous Notebooks, May 1849

 

Quotes are nothing but inspiration for the uninspired. ~Richard Kemph

 

:laughing:

 

ZOMG!! PARADOX!!! Your quotes support my opinion!

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Thats pretty cool! I'm glad that they are cross-trained in that area. It's just that firetrucks are massive multi-ton machines which are fairly slow and ambulances are much quicker. What I've seen is that a huge firetruck shows up while the ambulance is already there. It's just such an odd sight.

I'm guessing here, but I know that ambulance personnel will not enter a building where a violent crime has occurred until law enforcement clears it first.

 

It's possible that although an ambulance has been called to the scene that the firefighters are also called due to the potential risks involved.

 

While a firefighter may be crossed trained to serve as an EMT, I doubt a lot of EMTs are crossed trained as firefighters.

 

Everything GeoBain said, plus an ambulance/rescue has a crew of 2, maybe 3. That engine is carrying 4. If you have more than one injury, more hands may be needed to handle the situation. Dispatchers will always send responders with the consideration for safety, not the price tag that municipality pays for the call. I think that if the government is going to splurge on anything, it really ought to be the emergency response.

 

I don't know what model your department's engines are but I've seen some engines move very well on and off road.

 

If a municipality has a fire department and an EMS department that they wish to merge, they will cross-train the personnel of both departments in the other's certification. So EMTs can become FF/EMTs if the local government wills it to be so. The EMTs that never had any intention of carrying 50ft ladders around 500degree fires would seek work elsewhere at that point.

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From the 'HazMat' standpoint, the SCBA was probably because even a little Anthrax can be put into a film canister.. We just had a 'threat' made to a self-storage place, complete with the envelope & white powder.. (which, I'm more than sure turned out to be Talc.) Understandable, but just as someone said, They should already know about Geocaching.. Granted, some nut-job will disguise their actual bomb or chemical weapon as a Geocache.. But, for the love of pete! Check it out 1st!

 

BTW.. Was the initial picture a FTF? :laughing:

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It would just be so nice if the general public would actually stop and think for just a moment. OK it looks odd that 2 guys just put some small film canister sized object under the light pole. But seriously in the corner of the parking lot, is there really a jihaad on incandescent lighting that I'm unaware of?? I saw it somewhere here, I would suspect some odd new way of doing a drug deal than trying to blow up a light pole... cause nothing gets people running for the hills faster than the threat of no more lighting in a parking lot. I work where we monitor scanner traffic on a regular basis and I tell you, there is no end to the stupid stuff people call 911 for. I'm just glad I don't answer some of those calls, because some of them are so dumb I don't think I could get through the entire call without some serious sarcasm. My hats off to those who do day in and day out.

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Thats pretty cool! I'm glad that they are cross-trained in that area. It's just that firetrucks are massive multi-ton machines which are fairly slow and ambulances are much quicker. What I've seen is that a huge firetruck shows up while the ambulance is already there. It's just such an odd sight.

 

There have been plenty of times I've been dispatched to a scene and the firetruck is already there. Many a time a firetruck will show up before an ambulance simply because they are closer. Sure, they are much bigger trucks, but they ain't that slow.

 

Also, ambulances have a much higher call rate and stay busy. It's not uncommon for an ambulance to be coming from a long way away. Too much of the call volume is BS calls. Sometimes folks think ambulances are taxis. Heck, some folks think police cars are taxis.

 

Additionally, as has already been mentioned most fire personnel have first responder medical training. It's not uncommon for the guys in the funny hats to start working on folks right away. Then again, they don't always have the same level of training, either. Sometimes they might show up, look at the patient, and say, "Nothing we can do." We all then wait until an ambulance comes on scene.

 

Most police, though, get little training in first responding. It's just your basic stuff. Mostly, it's "ABC" which is "Ambulance Be Coming." The reason sometimes you see police on EMT calls is crowd control or in case the patient is violent.

 

With all of that said, I don't have an ambulance and firetruck following me around all day "just in case things go wrong." I'm sure it would alarm folks greatly I show up on a call and an ambulance shows up right after. I would certainly be thinking "this cop is about to make a situation a lot worst than it already is if he thinks he needs medical on scene."

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Is this alarm just another case of not getting permission and letting the store management know there are caches there? Would this have happened anyway even if they did?

 

 

The problem is that getting permission just isn't realistic. Who do you ask?

 

True. Usually the parking lot is not owned by the stores. You have to find out who owns the parking lot. And as you say, permission from the parking lot owner/company would probably do nothing about bomb squad calls. Plus I don't see a parking lot owner giving permission because of the huge PITA factor involved.

 

But since this is private property, and since so many of the geocaching bomb squad calls seem to be parking lot related, why does Groundspeak continue to allow this type of private property hide?

 

Now that right there is the question of the millenium.

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My turn. My turn.

 

Looks like lots of bikes were cut loose and removed to make way for the President's trip to NYC.

 

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/

 

Not a commentary on bikes here. Just an observation on the overreaction to something that might possibly happen, regardless of how unlikely. Carrying to the extreme, you might as well ban all cars near people, because there might be bombs in 'em.

 

E.

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My turn. My turn.

 

Looks like lots of bikes were cut loose and removed to make way for the President's trip to NYC.

 

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/

 

Not a commentary on bikes here. Just an observation on the overreaction to something that might possibly happen, regardless of how unlikely. Carrying to the extreme, you might as well ban all cars near people, because there might be bombs in 'em.

 

E.

Bomb squad defuses... a turnip.

 

Best quote from the article:

"I’m now on constant alert against this and other rooted vegetables,” GiaQuinta said.
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Parking lots in front of stores are private property. Reviewers need to start asking people for verification that they have permission to place caches in spots like this.

 

Here is the bigger question does L.E. ask the owners/managers if there is supposed to be something there.

 

No, they don't, which is why it doesn't matter if you get tenuous permission.

 

The bottom line is that a parking lot is for public use so it is okay to place a cache in a parking lot until it is forbidden by a posted sign or government ordinance... not too much unlike skateboarding or cruising in this regard. So a Geocacher has as much right to hide a 35mm film canister in a lamp post skirt in the Walmart parking lot as a paranoid individual, concerned citizen or a spiteful cacher has a right to report that 35mm film canister as a suspicious parcel. There will always be people who support cache containers being blown up, regardless of how they were placed or why... it's a nasty element to the game.

 

Cache owners accept the risk of the cache being detonated just the same as we accept the risks of an animal chewing on the cache, weather soaking the cache, people muggling the cache, or maggots destroying the cache. You've got to focus on the parts of the game you enjoy and understand that sometimes stuff happens.

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