2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Just can not control the enthusiasm! We found Kanab South Cairn monumented in 1871 by the USGS! See the pictures at GQ0323. Fantastic vistas & the coordinates were right on the money..required about a mile hike from where we parked. But it was worth every step to get to this beauty! Has anyone else found one this age or older. Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Very nice, the vista is excellent because this spot was chosen for its visibilty from great distances in several directions, making it an ideal point in the triangulation network. Arizona has a good many remote, well preserved, old points, compared to most other states. Points such as this were instrumental in the monumental task of mapping the Grand Canyon. Quote Link to comment
zdv Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Wow, that is quite impressive. It's hard for me to imagine how such a cairn survived so long unless it is cemented together. Did you notice if it was? I understand Idaho used to have many such cairns on mountaintops, but I've yet to see one intact like that one. I'm guessing the rough winters have taken their toll.. Quote Link to comment
NothingBetterToDo Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Which part of that structure is the actual mark? The datasheet says this is a stone monument imbedded in the ground, and a found report describes something like a rock in the ground with a chiseled cross on it. Is this structure of rocks simply there to protect the actual stone monument? Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted June 9, 2003 Author Share Posted June 9, 2003 The rock cairn is not cemented and we obviously did not dismantle the cairn to verify that rock beneath it had the cross chiseled in it. We have found other rock cairns that are in the 70 - 80 yrs old range that appear as though they were just built. They are ranch corner markers and built with sandstone. The monument was built with a variety of limestone which is considerably tougher than the sandstone. If you wish to see the quality of workmanship that went into this cairn, we posted a couple of pictures on the benchmark page. The pid number is GQ0323. The benchmarks for "Kanab" (pid GQ0324) are of the correct distance and angles from the cairn. It may have been rebuilt in 1933 (as suggested by the Geocaching datasheet), but there is no indication that a previous stone cairn had been dismantled. If it had been dismantled then there would have been some "stray" rocks scattered about and the area is void of any loose rocks. If you're in the Fredonia area it is worth the time and effort to find this marker... Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 The cairn is probably centered over the original point. The signal pole is intended to be directly over the spot, serving the same purpose to the surveyor as a tower or spire, which is a good long distance target. Its probably not extremely precise by modern standards, but in the old days, being within a fraction of a foot was considered relatively precise. Cairns last a long time in the southwest if well built. Many of them gradually become well known among the locals and being often visited, a trail is gradually formed, which encourages more people to hike that route, and a hking trail eventually develops. The cairn then becomes a landmark on the trail and some regular hikers of the trail take up the responsibility of maintaining it. Some also bring a stone of their own to add to it. Thus the more fortunate cairns are kept in good shape and some even grow Quote Link to comment
+happycycler Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 Congrats. and thank you for sharing that find with this forum! Apparently the oldest benchmarks around the St. Louis, MO area are also 1871 era -- but I have not found one yet. My oldest so far is JC0043, a brass plate on Eads Bridge -- 1882. But this past weekend I did visit HE0206 -- 1894, which had been found by Geo*Trailblazer. Keep finding those great old ones and please keep us *posted*. Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Thank you for all of your comments...There is another 1871 rock cairn in the general area but we really have to study the maps to find the more direct routes into this one. The directions are so long & old that most of the jeep trails are no longer accessable. This is soooo much FUN!!!! I hope you who are interested can find such an adrenaline rush....Thanks again...so many BM's, caches & minerals specimans--so little time. 2oldfarts Quote Link to comment
+happycycler Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Not as old as your find and I could not get a decent pix but I got a rush from visiting JC0625 - Chiseled Cross today. Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 115 years old is an excellent find! Hope you can find another oldie soon. Quote Link to comment
+Ziggy Crew Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 How do I get to see the pics for such a find? Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 I'm not computer savvy enough to set up a link to waypoint GQ0323, but if you go to the benchmark search and enter the pid (GQ0323) there are some pictures there. Quote Link to comment
+Snoogans Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Hey! False advertising...I read the title and expected more doot humor. Sngans The greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow.... Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Snoogans:Hey! False advertising...I read the title and expected more doot humor. Sngans http://www.texasgeocaching.comThe greatest labor saving invention of today is tomorrow.... Quote Link to comment
MOCKBA Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by survey tech:The cairn is probably centered over the original point. The signal pole is intended to be directly over the spot, serving the same purpose to the surveyor as a tower or spire, which is a good long distance target. I've seen the same at another old Utah BM recently, a rotten pole centered over a cross-marked copper bolt. But it appeared that while the bolt dates from 1880s, the pole is much more recent. Isn't this the case for Kanab BM too? Since the recovery of the 1933 found (quote) 'NO EVIDENCE OF ROCK MONUMENT OR WOOD TARGET'. What would be the right object for a geobenchmarker to document, then? Can one claim that this thing is 132 years old w/o identifying the original mark on the rock? OTOH can one do any 'archeological dig' at such a location? What might be the appropriate circumstances? Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted July 2, 2003 Share Posted July 2, 2003 The cairn probably was taken apart and put back up, perhaps a number of times over the years, when surveyors needed access to the point, but it would likely be a lot of work, so I would not recommend it. They had crews of several men who could do it fairly quickly and easily in those days, and the point may also have been left deliberately uncovered for a while when it was in frequent use. Of course, taking it apart and leaving it scattered now would be a disgrace and should not be a legitimate option. Quote Link to comment
AE5D Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 About two weeks ago I visited BM0582 on the grounds of the Texas Capitol in Austin. It was put there in 1872, and there is another mark about 40 feet away (BM0627) that was established in 1911. Quote Link to comment
Readymixer Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 My brother and I found one of the oldest in Alabama today DH2455. We are not sure if it is the oldest in the state but it must be close. The original point was placed as an old beer bottle in 1887. In 1939 some concrete was crudely placed on the bottle and a disk set in its place stamped 1887. Jeff35080 will be posting pics later this evening. We were certainly pumped to discover this one as well as a 1939 reset 62.2 feet from the 1887 disk. "Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine." Quote Link to comment
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted July 6, 2003 Author Share Posted July 6, 2003 Congrats, Just think of all the antique dealers that would love to get their hands on that bottle especially if it still has some beer in it! Smile, make others wonder what you're up to!!! Quote Link to comment
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