Trail of the Gods

[+humboldt flier]

By the way, I'm not a power trail hata; I have done this! I did 41 smalls and regulars by the same placer along a gravel rail trail in a 6.5 mile length. I am, however, a hata of an obscene number of identically hidden roadside micros.

 

Yes, I agree with TWU. Jazz it up a bit - a power trail with different size caches, preferably smalls, regulars, large. Micros if they are clever or creative (maybe an example of a bunch of micro types - matchstick container, bison tube, film canister, blinky, bison tube in a plastic animal, etc.) and different types of hides (stump, magnet, hanging in a tree, POS, PORS, etc.). Something that says - it's not about the numbers, it's about the hides.

Ahhhhhh Haaaaaaa, but the TOTG was jazzed up. They were not all Eclipse mint tins with rare earth magnets hung on towers. Granted, a toad load were and more than once I got complacent and went for the obvious only to get a reality check. From time to time one would stumble onto an uphill hike over shards of obsidian, old lava flows and a few proximal to Clarke Mountain that were prime rattle snake habitat. Once in a while you would be treated to a Nevada Nano which would even leave a Texan impressed.

[+TeamGeoduck]

My 2 cents:

There is no wrong way to pay this game unless you ruin it for others. A bunch of self-righteous cache snobs ruined it for others. Who cares what other people find, it doesn't effect your game any! I would have fun at that trail, I bet there is a lot of comradely and fun that can be had cleaning up this power trail. I love a one cache day hiking 5 miles to the cache and I love a good cache run too, it all about what I want to do with my day, not what you think I should do with it.

[Mr.Yuck]

My 2 cents:

There is no wrong way to pay this game unless you ruin it for others. A bunch of self-righteous cache snobs ruined it for others. Who cares what other people find, it doesn't effect your game any! I would have fun at that trail, I bet there is a lot of comradely and fun that can be had cleaning up this power trail. I love a one cache day hiking 5 miles to the cache and I love a good cache run too, it all about what I want to do with my day, not what you think I should do with it.

 

Self-righteous snobs ruined it for others? How so? You have some information there in Tallahassee that the rest of us don't have?

 

Edit so I could see your avatar and type Tallahassee correct.

Edited April 17, 2010 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+TeamGeoduck]

My 2 cents:

There is no wrong way to pay this game unless you ruin it for others. A bunch of self-righteous cache snobs ruined it for others. Who cares what other people find, it doesn't effect your game any! I would have fun at that trail, I bet there is a lot of comradely and fun that can be had cleaning up this power trail. I love a one cache day hiking 5 miles to the cache and I love a good cache run too, it all about what I want to do with my day, not what you think I should do with it.

 

Self-righteous snobs ruined it for others? How so? You have some information there in Tallahassee that the rest of us don't have?

 

Edit so I could see your avatar and type Tallahassee correct.

About as much as you do in NY. A know a couple of cachers that had planned a big road to to this trail, now ruined. None the less, had a power trail of 50 or 100 caches been placed under the same circumstance, people from around the world would not have gone APE about the rules being broken and smite this trail, maybe except for a few locals.

 

A good cheat for Tallahassee is Tally.

 

[Edited by moderator to remove potty language.]

Edited April 18, 2010 by Keystone

[+Dread_Pirate_Bruce]

While it is probable that TOTG captured the imagination of the caching community more than any other recent cache or series of caches, my guess is that it was not the discussion of the trail that drew negative attention, but rather the fact that people were grabbing the caches.

[+Team Geo-Rangers]

While it is probable that TOTG captured the imagination of the caching community more than any other recent cache or series of caches, my guess is that it was not the discussion of the trail that drew negative attention, but rather the fact that people were grabbing the caches.

 

Adding another piece to the full story puzzle ... Not sure if this incident contributed to the demise of the TOTG, but allegedly a power company worker took at least 4 before being stopped by a co-worker, according to NGA. They were later replaced by another SoCal cacher:

 

See logs for this God:

 

GC24R75

 

Cache on!

[+humboldt flier]

Psychopedics and I replaced at least two.

 

Had the great honor of meeting the previous poster, Team Geo Rangers, and his fellow record setting partner, peasinapod, along the trail. they were the most gracious and friendly Geo-Ambassadors.

Edited April 18, 2010 by humboldt flier

[+humboldt flier]

In finishing up my logging I notice at least one person out on the TOTG container pick up is scheduled to begin 4/23/10 and advantage of a narrow window of opportunity is being utilized. MY HAT IS DOFFED

[+AlanRRT]

Huh.

i'm more inclined towards replying with: WTF?

 

I'm waiting on the details.

 

I heard that many of these were off road and all these people hitting the trail to set records (personal or otherwise) were driving right up to the caches and their vehicles were making a royal mess of the areas around the caches.

 

I did about a third of the TotG, got FTF on about 150 of them. I did drive right up to the caches. Almost all of them are off the power line road, and the few that aren't only required a short walk, so I doubt that what you heard is accurate.

[+humboldt flier]

Hmmmm, it is 04/23/10 TOTG containers scheduled to be picked up starting to-day

[+brslk]

Seriously, Who cares? And why are you posting the same thing in every single thread that has anything to do with TOTG?

[+humboldt flier]

Seriously, Who cares? And why are you posting the same thing in every single thread that has anything to do with TOTG?

Hey brsik ... to answer you eh. Probably no one cares. then with respect to your second interogative .Nothing more than a childish response a needled barb. >>> feel free to chat me up and we can discuss it off forum eh

 

Geo huggggzzzzzzzzz to you brisk

Edited April 23, 2010 by humboldt flier

[Clan Riffster]

A bunch of self-righteous cache snobs ruined it for others.

Seriously? I wasn't aware of that. I was under the impression that many of the caches were placed without BLM permission, which led to their untimely archival. Unless, of course, you are suggesting that folks who follow the guidelines are self-righteous? Personally, if I had set up something like this, guaranteed to garner attention from across the globe, I would at least make some attempt at following the guidelines, but that's just me. Maybe Tallahassee is a little more relaxed when it comes to following guidelines?

 

You mention that a planned trip by some cohorts has been "ruined". Have they closed the state? Is there some reason your friends can't still go? Or is their only driving motivation the fact that they can crank up their numbers with hundreds of P&Gs?. Seems kinda sad, but to each their own, I reckon.

 

...had a power trail of 50 or 100 caches been placed under the same circumstance, people from around the world would not have gone APE about the rules being broken and smite this trail

I see. I learn something new every day. So it was people around the world who smote this series?

 

Seriously, Who cares?

I do. I bet humboldt does too. There are cachers who believe that, once a cache has been archived, it should be removed. Many of these folks believe that an archived cache, which is left in the woods, is litter, in that it was essentially abandoned, and no longer serves a purpose. If you don't believe this yourself, that's your decision, but do you really need to berate others who show at least a modicum of respect for the environment?

[+Vater_Araignee]

Seriously, Who cares?

I do. I bet humboldt does too. There are cachers who believe that, once a cache has been archived, it should be removed. Many of these folks believe that an archived cache, which is left in the woods, is litter, in that it was essentially abandoned, and no longer serves a purpose. If you don't believe this yourself, that's your decision, but do you really need to berate others who show at least a modicum of respect for the environment?

I think that his "who cares" is about the fact that who care to know have been told several times what date they would be picked up prior to humboldt unnecessarily posting it in way more than enough threads to let us know.

1 would have sufficed.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

1 would have sufficed.

I agree...that's why this thread was created...to discuss the archival of the series. All the other threads had their own purpose.

[+sbell111]

A bunch of self-righteous cache snobs ruined it for others.

Seriously? I wasn't aware of that. I was under the impression that many of the caches were placed without BLM permission, which led to their untimely archival.

Do you have a link to support this 'impression' or are you just making unfounded allegations like the guy who 'heard' that the archivals were because the area was being torn up? Edited April 23, 2010 by sbell111

[+bittsen]

I have second hand evidence that points to you all being wrong.

[+jeepdelfuego]

Some of the posters to this thread need to get a life. You guys come across as forum bullies and seem to suck the fun out of geocaching.

[+Moose Mob]

Some of the posters to this thread need to get a life. You guys come across as forum bullies and seem to suck the fun out of geocaching.

If I may so bold as to disagree... most of us still have fun geocaching, they just make the forums visits less pleasurable than it could be.

[+fizzymagic]

...they just make the forums visits less pleasurable than it could be.

This may well qualify as the Understatement of the Year!

[+jeepdelfuego]

Some of the posters to this thread need to get a life. You guys come across as forum bullies and seem to suck the fun out of geocaching.

If I may so bold as to disagree... most of us still have fun geocaching, they just make the forums visits less pleasurable than it could be.

 

I stand corrected and agree. I still have fun geocaching.

[+dfx]

I have second hand evidence that points to you all being wrong.

i have first hand evidence that i am right.

[+bittsen]

I have second hand evidence that points to you all being wrong.

i have first hand evidence that i am right.

 

Do share...

[+dfx]

I have second hand evidence that points to you all being wrong.

i have first hand evidence that i am right.

 

Do share...

i can't, because then it would be second hand evidence

[+bittsen]

I have second hand evidence that points to you all being wrong.

i have first hand evidence that i am right.

 

Do share...

i can't, because then it would be second hand evidence

 

Yeah, I was sort of wondering how someone from Ontario could have first hand evidence...

[+ventura_kids]

Well I heard from a guy who saw a post from this guy.....

[+dfx]

Yeah, I was sort of wondering how someone from Ontario could have first hand evidence...

first i thought you were being sarcastic, but now i think you just totally missed my point

[+Dread_Pirate_Bruce]

Well I heard from a guy who saw a post from this guy.....

 

And, the guy you heard it from must know because his sister's hairdresser's friend's bartender told his sister's hairdresser's friend, who told his sister's hairdresser, who told his sister, who told him. And, that proves it.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Well I heard from a guy who saw a post from this guy.....

 

And, the guy you heard it from must know because his sister's hairdresser's friend's bartender told his sister's hairdresser's friend, who told his sister's hairdresser, who told his sister, who told him. And, that proves it.

Only your hairdresser knows for sure.

[Clan Riffster]

Well I heard from a guy who saw a post from this guy.....

I read it on the Internet. That trumps all forms of proof!

[+The Blorenges]

I started following this topic originally because it was QI (even from my viewpoint of thousands of miles away) but then I wandered off to read other stuff, go on holiday, eat bacon butties etc.

 

Just to save me going back through 4 pages (please!) can I assume that there's been no definitive reason given (as yet) as to why they were all archived?

 

MrsB

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Just to save me going back through 4 pages (please!) can I assume that there's been no definitive reason given (as yet) as to why they were all archived?

 

MrsB

I don't think that a full and definitive answer has been offered by the NGA or whoever was responsible...If it has I haven't seen it.

 

My (purely speculative) impression just knowing some of the players is that they had permission but it was for some reason withdrawn after it was set up.

 

Put up the walls and remain silent rarely works well for wayward politicians, perhaps they believe that it will work better for them. Or maybe they answered and I missed it.

 

Either way, at this late date I expect we've gotten all the answer we're going to get.

[+pwcinpc]

Just to save me going back through 4 pages (please!) can I assume that there's been no definitive reason given (as yet) as to why they were all archived?

 

MrsB

I don't think that a full and definitive answer has been offered by the NGA or whoever was responsible...If it has I haven't seen it.

 

My (purely speculative) impression just knowing some of the players is that they had permission but it was for some reason withdrawn after it was set up.

 

Put up the walls and remain silent rarely works well for wayward politicians, perhaps they believe that it will work better for them. Or maybe they answered and I missed it.

 

Either way, at this late date I expect we've gotten all the answer we're going to get.

So TAR, when are we going to enjoy the family-friendly version of this story on The Online Geocacher?

 

And CF, yes the trip is still on and you are welcome to come. But, you may be as there will be stops for other trails that are not archived and we might stumble across a few that aren't ammo cans

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

So TAR, when are we going to enjoy the family-friendly version of this story on The Online Geocacher?

 

And CF, yes the trip is still on and you are welcome to come. But, you may be as there will be stops for other trails that are not archived and we might stumble across a few that aren't ammo cans

Great idea!

 

Maybe someone involved would write an article about the teamwork and planning that went into creating the trail, and someone who ran it would write about their run, that would be cool.

 

I will ask them! Anyone?

[+brslk]

So TAR, when are we going to enjoy the family-friendly version of this story on The Online Geocacher?

 

And CF, yes the trip is still on and you are welcome to come. But, you may be as there will be stops for other trails that are not archived and we might stumble across a few that aren't ammo cans

Great idea!

 

Maybe someone involved would write an article about the teamwork and planning that went into creating the trail, and someone who ran it would write about their run, that would be cool.

 

I will ask them! Anyone?

 

You might also want to ask them why exactly it was archived. People would like to know it seems.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

So TAR, when are we going to enjoy the family-friendly version of this story on The Online Geocacher?

 

And CF, yes the trip is still on and you are welcome to come. But, you may be as there will be stops for other trails that are not archived and we might stumble across a few that aren't ammo cans

Great idea!

 

Maybe someone involved would write an article about the teamwork and planning that went into creating the trail, and someone who ran it would write about their run, that would be cool.

 

I will ask them! Anyone?

 

You might also want to ask them why exactly it was archived. People would like to know it seems.

Nope, I avoid controversy in the magazine. It's a place for geocachers to tell geocaching tales. Anyone who wants to discuss the pros and cons of any topic has this forum to do it in.

 

That's partly why I don't often write for the magazine - I don't want it to ever become a place for my desires and opinions.

 

Got a geocaching story? Great, we'll publish it. Got an opinion or criticism to share? Find another platform!

 

As I said, I would love for any of the folks involved to write about their experience.

[+brslk]

So TAR, when are we going to enjoy the family-friendly version of this story on The Online Geocacher?

 

And CF, yes the trip is still on and you are welcome to come. But, you may be as there will be stops for other trails that are not archived and we might stumble across a few that aren't ammo cans

Great idea!

 

Maybe someone involved would write an article about the teamwork and planning that went into creating the trail, and someone who ran it would write about their run, that would be cool.

 

I will ask them! Anyone?

 

You might also want to ask them why exactly it was archived. People would like to know it seems.

Nope, I avoid controversy in the magazine. It's a place for geocachers to tell geocaching tales. Anyone who wants to discuss the pros and cons of any topic has this forum to do it in.

 

That's partly why I don't often write for the magazine - I don't want it to ever become a place for my desires and opinions.

 

Got a geocaching story? Great, we'll publish it. Got an opinion or criticism to share? Find another platform!

 

As I said, I would love for any of the folks involved to write about their experience.

 

OIC... only pro stuff.. got it.

[MikeB3542]

I'd love to hear the real story, but I'm unwilling to hold my breath.

I don't think you're going to hear the real story because of what it will mean. ( <-- The conspiracy theorist part of me.)

 

Think about it. First, the power trail guideline is completely thrown out the window. No requirement for making the caches a multi considering the close proximity, similarity, and ownership. Second, let's place it on major infrastructure with questionable permission assumptions and no questions asked. Let some other "insiders" break a record or two. Then, let's archive the vast majority of the individual caches claiming unforeseen circumstances so wrists don't get slapped for placing temporary caches.

 

Sure. Pretty elaborate undertaking simply to forge an unbreakable record. Still...

 

I'm just wondering how this will bode for the power trail guideline that was thrown out the window that wasn't really thrown out the window because the guidelines still say "please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can". Many a power trail has been placed during this confusing period in the past year; rural Maine, rural Illinois, near New Orleans, Ontario Canada, Spain, Denmark and Sweden. Those are just off the top of my head.

 

Do you happen to know where the power trail in rural Illinois is?

 

I'm back. South of Peoria and Bloomington. By username MutherandSun. I only have Geocaching.com Google Maps at my disposal right now, so I can't zoom out enough. But I'm rather certain she spelled the word MUTHER along rural roads. That user has 900 hides, and I'm sure I've heard of a bike trail power trail in Illinois by them as well.

 

The Muther and Sun caches are laid out along Illinois county lines, and average approx 1 mile apart. Each batch of four or five dozen caches encircling the county appears to be part of a puzzle cache. Considering the distance between caches, it isn't quite "power trail" material.

[+gpsblake]

The beauty of geocaching is it's you can do it your way. I care less about cache counts and care less about anyone elses cache count.

 

But when someone comes on the forums and brags about "breaking a record", then they are totally open game for any and all criticisms. Enuf said.

 

I guess this Trail of the Gods is just another lesson. We had a series called "Kick the Bucket" here in South Carolina that had to be shut down. A good series for the most part in my opinion but a small handful of poorly placed caches with them (the majority of them were good caches) along with some activist that claimed graveyards were being disrespected got that series canned. But we move on and learn our lesson.

 

The idea of the power trail where permission is obtained and minimal impact sounds pretty neat. I wish the best for those who placed that Trail of the Gods and hope they are able to perhaps re-do it somewhere in the future.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

OIC... only pro stuff.. got it.

You obviously haven't read it. It carries no opinions, pro or con, just geocacher's stories.

[+brslk]

OIC... only pro stuff.. got it.

You obviously haven't read it. It carries no opinions, pro or con, just geocacher's stories.

 

Perhaps.

Edited April 26, 2010 by brslk

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

As the OP in this topic, I'd like to ask that we each try our best to keep close to the topic of the archival of the Trail of the Gods, there are other topics for discussing each of the tangents that some of us seem to be getting on. Please use those topics for those discussions. Thank you.

[+Sol seaker]

I started following this topic originally because it was QI (even from my viewpoint of thousands of miles away) but then I wandered off to read other stuff, go on holiday, eat bacon butties etc.

 

Just to save me going back through 4 pages (please!) can I assume that there's been no definitive reason given (as yet) as to why they were all archived?

 

MrsB

 

Hello Mrs B. Nice to hear from you today.

I read all four/five pages yesterday, so I'll tell what of it I can remember.

 

There has been no definitive answer given at this point. It's been a lot of speculation with a few facts thrown in.

 

Let's see, beyond the various alien theories, there is the fact that the CO's had placed a lot of the caches (magnetic) on the electric towers. When asked to remove them from the towers the CO's asked that people finding the caches take them off the towers and put them on the ground under some rocks. As far as I know the coords were not changed, so they were next to the towers.

 

So one theory is that they did not like the caches by or on the towers (although they were asked to be archived AFTER they were taken off the towers). They could have had problems with people visiting so many of their electric towers after 911 and all. Even stopping by to visit with the cache on the ground could have been a problem. Hard to tell a geocacher from a terrorist I know, my mother has that problem all the time. ... but I digress.

 

So that is one theory. (Most highly likely)

 

Another is that BLM was saying that we were tearing up the land with so many people going through. This was not supported by the numbers, and indeed it was argued that off-road vehicle races had commenced on the same land. BLM could have just been disturbed by the increased traffic. They did not know how much it would increase in the future (since they don't know about FTF races and all that, they had no idea that it would probably die down).

 

People brought up the fact that the Groundspeak guidelines say that you aren't supposed to place them every 600 feet just because you can. They also brought up the fact that the reviewer was involved in placing the caches and a few yelled "conspiracy" over this, but they were really just jealous they hadn't been able to grab the caches themselves I'm sure for this had nothing to do with why they were pulled at all. Someone was just trying to dig up some dirt on the situation so to be able to add a little gossip to the story; make the story more exciting for the forums.

 

There were various other accusations, such as the CO's just hid them to find them themselves and intended on them being short time caches, but all seemed to agree that that was a WHOLE LOT OF WORK to do for numbers. It would have been cheaper and easier for them to go to colorado where they have a great cluster of them to find fast. Oh wait, I just said that last line about cheaper. It wasn't in the previous pages. Oh well. I'll try to stick to the story. No one seemed to buy that one anyway.

 

So we're back to being left with all of the alien theories. About trying to make a line visable from space and all that. Create an alien landing strip or something, but the government didn't like drawing in so many flying saucers. Oh, ok that wasn't in there either. Well part of it was.

Guess I'd better quit while I'm behind.

 

Thanks for dropping by Mrs B. Enjoy your bacon buttes.

 

Sol Seaker

Edited April 26, 2010 by Sol seaker

[+The Blorenges]

I started following this topic originally because it was QI (even from my viewpoint of thousands of miles away) but then I wandered off to read other stuff, go on holiday, eat bacon butties etc.

 

Just to save me going back through 4 pages (please!) can I assume that there's been no definitive reason given (as yet) as to why they were all archived?

 

MrsB

 

Hello Mrs B. Nice to hear from you today.

I read all four/five pages yesterday, so I'll tell what of it I can remember.

 

<Succinct summary of the last 4 pages of comments and speculation removed for extra brevity )

 

Thanks for dropping by Mrs B. Enjoy your bacon buttes.

 

Sol Seaker

 

Good morning Sol Seaker and thank you for your excellent précis! Just what I needed.

 

I'll go along with the alien intervention theories and will bear them in mind when I set our the power trail of 2000 film pots around the Cornwall Coastal Path... although it's possible that malicious mermaids may be more of a problem in that area.

 

MrsB

[Clan Riffster]

You might also want to ask them why exactly it was archived.

Nope, I avoid controversy in the magazine.

Maybe I'm just having a dense moment. Not enough caffeine, maybe?

From the bleachers, it looks like the Secret Squirrel archiving is what caused all the controversy.

Nobody but those directly involved knows the real reason the run was nuked, so folks speculate.

Then folks argue about the speculations.

Since when did a clear, concise explanation lead to controversy?

 

There has been no definitive answer given at this point.

<snip>theories in abundance<snip>

Another theory that was postulated. Don't know if it has any more merit than the alien landing theory:

BLM requires explicit permission for caches hidden on their lands.

No permission was granted.

(insert conspiracy angle)

Because a reviewer was involved in the placement team, that part of the guidelines was conveniently ignored.

[+Castle Mischief]

BLM requires explicit permission for caches hidden on their lands.

No permission was granted.

 

I don't think that BLM permission was the issue. Sounds like the caches that were on the power polls didn't have permission and were later taken off the polls but not before Groundspeak was contacted.

 

Does BLM own the power poles?

No.

And at the time of archival, the caches were not on the poles.

 

We are still confident that the caches were legal when archived, at least with respect to the utility companies and their towers. There might be issues with their proximity to the towers (the land is owned by BLM), but this becomes a legal issue that would have to be decided in court. We agreed with Groundspeak's request to archive as an act of appeasement.

 

Here is some ammo for the anti-power trails to use.

BLM Policy on Geocaching

Keep in mind that these Geocaches in no way interrupted the flow of electricity.

[+humboldt flier]

Intriguing, most intriguing. As of this A.M. the associated Trail of Fears on the Nevada side of the state line is up and running ... Hmmmmmmmm, is there a cross border jurisdictional issue ???? Perhaps there is a NIMBY issue ( Not In My Back Yard ) Perhaps a fish poet might have provided an insight in the So. Cal. 4x4 forum. >>>> But wait ... for a wonderful and entertaining synopsis go to GC273WD <<<<

[+wimseyguy]

Now that there is funny; I don't care who you are.

[Clan Riffster]

I don't think that BLM permission was the issue.

You may be right. I wouldn't know, as I wasn't involved. Since those who were involved refuse to provide any answers, speculation is all I got.

 

We know that the power poles are on BLM land, and from the link you provided, we see this:

"Prior to establishing a cache on public lands, please contact the local BLM Field Office to identify the intended location and to request authorization"

 

We also know that every time someone has asked those involved if they had explicit permission from BLM to place the caches, all we hear are cricket sounds. Personally, if I were a reviewer involved in this debacle, I would be posting for all to see exactly who gave me permission to hide the series... unless, of course, I didn't get permission, and used my Ninja like reviewer powers to bypass the guidelines. Then I might duck behind a handy tumbleweed and pray that the turmoil dies down... making naught but cricket noises.

 

As I said, it's just another theory, no more, or no less possible than the others.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

You may be right. I wouldn't know, as I wasn't involved. Since those who were involved refuse to provide any answers, speculation is all I got.

 

I'm thinking that we might hear more details AFTER they are all removed. The issue that caused the problem may also prevent a complete discussion while some of the Caches are still on the Trail.