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Attacked at a cache


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I really like the advice of the pepper spray. I used to carry some when I was a young single woman, but have long since tossed it.

 

I will need to go online and order some to be stocked and ready in our geo bag. Maybe even find a neat way to attach it to my walking staff.

 

Does anyone know if there are legal consquences to using pepper spray?

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I do not agree with the cache owner's decision, but it is his cache.

One thing you could do at this point, (just a suggestion), is post a "Needs Archived" log on the cache page, explaining the danger that exists at ground zero. As cachers, we expect to be able to evaluate locations for perceived dangers and act accordingly, deciding for ourselves if we want to make the attempt or not. However, in this case, the danger is not something that the average observer would notice. This drunken fidiot is probably going to continue his assaults on others, unless the location is changed so radically as to make his observations irrelevant.

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I will need to go online and order some to be stocked and ready in our geo bag. Maybe even find a neat way to attach it to my walking staff.

 

Does anyone know if there are legal consquences to using pepper spray?

I can just imagine myself leaning on my walking staff and hosing myself / those around me with pepper spray :wub:

 

I'm not sure about the legal consequences - probably charged with assault if the police feels that your use is not justifiable. I don't see how it would help separate two people scuffling though, unless you're prepared to spray both of them.

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pepper spray is a very effective way to disengage from a conflict. I carry pepper spray when i go out caching because i never know what is out there. I have never had reason to use it thankfully but i know its there and ready when that day comes. I would avoid using stun guns/ taser guns because those can inflict serious and lasting injuries upon someone and can be equally disturbing for a child to watch someone get "lit up" with over 50,000 volts of electricity.

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I do not agree with the cache owner's decision, but it is his cache.

One thing you could do at this point, (just a suggestion), is post a "Needs Archived" log on the cache page, explaining the danger that exists at ground zero. As cachers, we expect to be able to evaluate locations for perceived dangers and act accordingly, deciding for ourselves if we want to make the attempt or not. However, in this case, the danger is not something that the average observer would notice. This drunken fidiot is probably going to continue his assaults on others, unless the location is changed so radically as to make his observations irrelevant.

 

This team did request that the cache be archived. The cache owner simply moved the cache 200 feet from its original location.

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pepper spray is a very effective way to disengage from a conflict. I carry pepper spray when i go out caching because i never know what is out there. I have never had reason to use it thankfully but i know its there and ready when that day comes. I would avoid using stun guns/ taser guns because those can inflict serious and lasting injuries upon someone and can be equally disturbing for a child to watch someone get "lit up" with over 50,000 volts of electricity.

 

Pepper spray is a good idea.

It's not lethal to most people.

If it gets used against you, you will probably survive

Pepper smells nice when your opponent is trying to see and is coughing so bad they are frothing

Kids think it's cool to see an assailant cry

It's reasonably inexpensive.

It's easy to carry with you

It works on wild animals as well to stop an attack or just as a warning (you can spray pepper spray towards a wild animal and they will back off)

You don't need any permit to carry it (in most places)

If you want to spice up your chili, you can

I think it can make ticks dislodge (check before trying

Responsible children are safe with carrying pepper spray

 

Having said that, most kids I grew up with would have said "COOL!!!" of they saw someone being lit up with a taser or stun gun.

 

Stun guns have a LOT of bad potential.

 

Pepper spray gets my vote for a deterrent and protective utility.

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pepper spray is a very effective way to disengage from a conflict. I carry pepper spray when i go out caching because i never know what is out there. I have never had reason to use it thankfully but i know its there and ready when that day comes. I would avoid using stun guns/ taser guns because those can inflict serious and lasting injuries upon someone and can be equally disturbing for a child to watch someone get "lit up" with over 50,000 volts of electricity.

 

Pepper spray is a good idea.

It's not lethal to most people.

If it gets used against you, you will probably survive

Pepper smells nice when your opponent is trying to see and is coughing so bad they are frothing

Kids think it's cool to see an assailant cry

It's reasonably inexpensive.

It's easy to carry with you

It works on wild animals as well to stop an attack or just as a warning (you can spray pepper spray towards a wild animal and they will back off)

You don't need any permit to carry it (in most places)

If you want to spice up your chili, you can

I think it can make ticks dislodge (check before trying

Responsible children are safe with carrying pepper spray

 

Having said that, most kids I grew up with would have said "COOL!!!" of they saw someone being lit up with a taser or stun gun.

 

Stun guns have a LOT of bad potential.

 

Pepper spray gets my vote for a deterrent and protective utility.

 

Having suggested the pepper spray, i'll explain my ramped escalation of force. I carry bear spray because I hike in Mtn Lion / Black Bear Territory. When legal, I also carry a .357 and a Gerber LMF II knife. If I ever encountered a hungry Mtn Lion, or an irate Marijuana grower in the middle of the forest, I have multiple options.

 

Having been sprayed by pepper spray( in the academy) I can vouch for the incapacitating ability of pepper spray. It is a great tool to use for disengagement, and retreat. An irate drunk looking for a fistfight isn't grounds for deadly force unless the fight escalates to the point where the drunk incapacitates you, and attempts great bodily harm on you.

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Having suggested the pepper spray, i'll explain my ramped escalation of force. I carry bear spray because I hike in Mtn Lion / Black Bear Territory. When legal, I also carry a .357 and a Gerber LMF II knife. If I ever encountered a hungry Mtn Lion, or an irate Marijuana grower in the middle of the forest, I have multiple options.

 

Having been sprayed by pepper spray( in the academy) I can vouch for the incapacitating ability of pepper spray. It is a great tool to use for disengagement, and retreat. An irate drunk looking for a fistfight isn't grounds for deadly force unless the fight escalates to the point where the drunk incapacitates you, and attempts great bodily harm on you.

 

I'll add that Pepper spray isn't as "safe" as many want to believe. I don't know if you suffered after effects but when I tested pepper spray I had lung problems for about 6 months after, including pneumonia 10 months after testing it.

 

But, yes, escalation of force is most important to understand when attacked. Someone yelling at you isn't enough to get your gun out. Alternately pepper spray isn't going to save you if you are 20 feet away from a pot grower with an Uzi.

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I was punched in the face by a guy on a train once. Had to keep using the train, but a sharp eyed guard noticed that something was up with me...explained what had happened, and the next couple of trips, I rode in the guards van. I kept using the train - never had any more problems.

I agree with the suggestion of teaching your son that excess alcohol can lead to bad behaviour. You and your son had a nasty shock. I would hate for you to give up geocaching...this sort of problem could have occurred anywhere. Please don't let the bad guy win in this instance - but only you can make the decision that is right for your family. At least don't give up on any events in your area! Maybe you can chat with some caching friends and go out with them? All the best and a big hug to your son!

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I've got my bear spray, problem is I often have it in my backpack, on my back when it comes time to use it. Like when I encountered that big great dane and the other dog which looked like your typical lean mean junkyard dog. Both of them were growling and barking at me. Fortunately for me their owner came up the trail behind them.

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I'll add that Pepper spray isn't as "safe" as many want to believe. I don't know if you suffered after effects but when I tested pepper spray I had lung problems for about 6 months after, including pneumonia 10 months after testing it.

You... tested a pepper spray on yourself? :wub:

 

Sounds like it has the potential to be a youtube hit.

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I'll add that Pepper spray isn't as "safe" as many want to believe. I don't know if you suffered after effects but when I tested pepper spray I had lung problems for about 6 months after, including pneumonia 10 months after testing it.

You... tested a pepper spray on yourself? :wub:

 

Sounds like it has the potential to be a youtube hit.

 

I tested Mace too.

 

I didn't like Mace. It was like deep inhaling the fumes from Super Glue.

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pepper spray is a very effective way to disengage from a conflict. I carry pepper spray when i go out caching because i never know what is out there. I have never had reason to use it thankfully but i know its there and ready when that day comes. I would avoid using stun guns/ taser guns because those can inflict serious and lasting injuries upon someone and can be equally disturbing for a child to watch someone get "lit up" with over 50,000 volts of electricity.

 

Kids think it's cool to see an assailant cry

 

 

It's fun for the whole family. :wub:

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Get a gun ....

 

NOT good advice.

 

Horrible advice since the adults could get separated again, get two guns.

 

Oh, so now their son gets to be traumatized because their mom or dad shot some drunk guy and now is in jail. And don't think that self-defense will always get you off...

 

Guns don't always make problems better, in fact many time they make them worse.

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As the original poster I do not like where this thread has headed. This is not about gun control or use of physical violence.

 

I wanted to get my story out so others can take caution when thinking about finding a cache hidden on private property even when permission has been granted.

 

I also needed to vent. I have been following the thread and most of you have been very supportive and helpful.

 

I do see that the owner of the cache has now moved the cache away from the building and has made note that the renter has a mental issue.

 

I do not agree with the cache owner's decision, but it is his cache. I have made my post on the cache as as warning to others. I don't feel given the attack and knowing that this man is mentally unstable that a cache should continue at this location. But each cacher can make their own informed decision after reading the posts and comments for themselves.

 

Thank you to those who have given their support. As for the others take the gun control posting to the off topic area of the forum.

 

 

 

Thank you for reminding us that there are people like that out there. I'm not sure why the owner didn't archive it either. I would have at least until that person was no longer so close to the property. At least they put a warning so the next person can make an informed decision before going out there.

 

 

I'm really sorry that I started a debate that I had no intention of starting. I posted my second post before I saw the moderator request (I must have started typing as they posted and I didn't even get back to check the board until just now.) I can't seem to catch a break on this board. (Sigh)

 

 

How are you and your family doing. I hope you are all feeling better. Don't worry if it takes awhile to get back to normal, that is normal.

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Edited for gun content as I missed the moderators post..oops..

Anyways,I hope your bad encounter doesnt ruin the game for you.I would sure try and know my location and the phone number of the local authorities where you plan to cache next time.I think that is good advise for all.Best wishes whatever you decide :wub:

Edited by chachi44089
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I think today was offically our last day geocaching. We were doing a series of three on bee-keeping in our area. The 2nd in the series was located on a property were they keep bees and have a little honey store. Permission was granted by the property owner for the placement of the cache and his name was listed in the description.

 

We pull into the parking lot and get out. From the logs you can see the cache from the parking lot but it up a little hill. With my bum ankle I decide to stay back at the vehicle while my son and husband head up the hill. It was a quick find. They shout down that they found a geocoin and will be leaving a our travel bug. Then I turn around and a drunken enraged man starts yelling at me about trepassing,etc. I try to explain geo caching to him, but he clearly doesn't want to hear my explaination. My husband can see and her the rucas and comes down the hill. He too tries to explain geocaching and shows him the gps with the owner's name listed as giving permission. The drunken man starts swearing in front of our son. My husband calming asks him to stop swearing and tells him that we will leave the property. The man grabs ahold of my husband's shirt and starts swinging at him. My son is standing in terror watching these two exchange punches.

 

I call 911 from my cell phone and it bounces off the towers in the next county. She keeps asking me where I am and what county I am in. I don't know!!!! I am panicking as the two continue to fight and my son is crying. I try to tell her that I am geocaching in the country and I have coordiantes of where I am but I am not sure if we crossed the county line and which county I am in. Using th ping from our cell phone she is able to determine that we are not in the county in which the call was sent to.

 

My husband manages to get in the vehicle and get away from the man and wait at an intersection until the police arrive.

 

As the police were taking our statements another geocaching family arrives. The police go over to question them and they too show the gps that shows the property owner has given permission.

 

According to one of the police officers this isn't the first time they have been called to the house. The owner had given permission to some hunters to be on the land and the renter didn't agree so he confronted the hunters and the police had to get involved.

 

As much fun as we had finding #204 caches, I think we are hanging up our GPS and staying indoors. The cub scout pack we run was just starting to enjoy some of the local series like the sponge bob series. Guess we will stick with teaching the boys knot tying this summer.

 

While I was out looking for a cache near my in-laws house I has a man sick a dog on my mother in law and I. The funny thing was is that we were just walking up and down the country road. The land on either side of the road may or may not have been private but non the less we were on the road and the bridge. We did not find that cache and I posted a comment to "Beware" for any other cachers who attempted it. Luckly, we drove to this cache and did not ride bikes like the cache suggested. If on bikes our experience could have turned bloody because that dog was in Bite mode. The van saved us.

 

I just keep my eyes and ears open for any thing that might make for a bad experience.

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After a number of attacks on hikers and campers in Alaska, the Department of Fish & Game released the following advisory:

 

We advise that outdoorsmen wear noisy little bells on their clothing so as not to startle bears. We also advise utdoorsmen to carry pepper spray with them in case of an encounter with a bear. It is also a good idea to watch out for fresh signs of bear activity.

 

Outdoorsmen should recognize the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly Bear droppings. Black bear droppings are smaller and contain lots of berries and squirrel fur. Grizzly bear droppings have little bells in it and smell like pepper.

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I do see that the owner of the cache has now moved the cache away from the building and has made note that the renter has a mental issue.

 

I do not agree with the cache owner's decision, but it is his cache. I have made my post on the cache as as warning to others. I don't feel given the attack and knowing that this man is mentally unstable that a cache should continue at this location. But each cacher can make their own informed decision after reading the posts and comments for themselves.

 

Thank you to those who have given their support. As for the others take the gun control posting to the off topic area of the forum.

 

Have to agree with you on that. Also, since the only mention of the possible problem with the renter is in the logs, after a few more people post logs to this cache they will drop off the first 5 and many seekers won't see that information at all.

Edited by rob3k
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While I was out looking for a cache near my in-laws house I has a man sick a dog on my mother in law and I. The funny thing was is that we were just walking up and down the country road. The land on either side of the road may or may not have been private but non the less we were on the road and the bridge. We did not find that cache and I posted a comment to "Beware" for any other cachers who attempted it. Luckly, we drove to this cache and did not ride bikes like the cache suggested. If on bikes our experience could have turned bloody because that dog was in Bite mode. The van saved us.

 

I just keep my eyes and ears open for any thing that might make for a bad experience.

I had a neighbor who delighted in watching his dog harass folks walking down the street.

 

The city responded to complaints, if at all, in a rather lackadaisical and ineffective manner.

 

It scared a lot of people and after a while it finally bit someone.

 

I drove down there, stopped my car in the street and rolled my window down. When the dog made like it was going to attack and jumped up on the side of my car I ended his reign of terror with a single hammer blow.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love dogs, have one and have had many, but when they threaten people and the owner won't control them I have no problem removing the threat.

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I was punched in the face by a guy on a train once. Had to keep using the train, but a sharp eyed guard noticed that something was up with me...explained what had happened, and the next couple of trips, I rode in the guards van. I kept using the train - never had any more problems.

I agree with the suggestion of teaching your son that excess alcohol can lead to bad behaviour. You and your son had a nasty shock. I would hate for you to give up geocaching...this sort of problem could have occurred anywhere. Please don't let the bad guy win in this instance - but only you can make the decision that is right for your family. At least don't give up on any events in your area! Maybe you can chat with some caching friends and go out with them? All the best and a big hug to your son!

 

I agree with this. Things like this aren't limited to one activity or circumstance, so I hope you don't hang up the GPS.

This is definitely a way to teach your son a life lesson that I am sure he will not forget for the rest of his life. Sometimes seeing the ugly face of reality is the only way things get driven home.

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While I was out looking for a cache near my in-laws house I has a man sick a dog on my mother in law and I. The funny thing was is that we were just walking up and down the country road. The land on either side of the road may or may not have been private but non the less we were on the road and the bridge. We did not find that cache and I posted a comment to "Beware" for any other cachers who attempted it. Luckly, we drove to this cache and did not ride bikes like the cache suggested. If on bikes our experience could have turned bloody because that dog was in Bite mode. The van saved us.

 

I just keep my eyes and ears open for any thing that might make for a bad experience.

I had a neighbor who delighted in watching his dog harass folks walking down the street.

 

The city responded to complaints, if at all, in a rather lackadaisical and ineffective manner.

 

It scared a lot of people and after a while it finally bit someone.

 

I drove down there, stopped my car in the street and rolled my window down. When the dog made like it was going to attack and jumped up on the side of my car I ended his reign of terror with a single hammer blow.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love dogs, have one and have had many, but when they threaten people and the owner won't control them I have no problem removing the threat.

 

<_< Wow. Ballsy to say the very least. Again, wow.

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I had a neighbor who delighted in watching his dog harass folks walking down the street.

 

The city responded to complaints, if at all, in a rather lackadaisical and ineffective manner.

 

It scared a lot of people and after a while it finally bit someone.

 

I drove down there, stopped my car in the street and rolled my window down. When the dog made like it was going to attack and jumped up on the side of my car I ended his reign of terror with a single hammer blow.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love dogs, have one and have had many, but when they threaten people and the owner won't control them I have no problem removing the threat.

 

Good for you! It's almost unbelievable to me that people let their pets harass anyone, let alone find it amusing. I like dogs, but the second they turn into a menace my appreciation for them stops.

 

Glad you did what needed to be done, since those who should have been responsible didn't.

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I had a neighbor who delighted in watching his dog harass folks walking down the street.

 

The city responded to complaints, if at all, in a rather lackadaisical and ineffective manner.

 

It scared a lot of people and after a while it finally bit someone.

 

I drove down there, stopped my car in the street and rolled my window down. When the dog made like it was going to attack and jumped up on the side of my car I ended his reign of terror with a single hammer blow.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love dogs, have one and have had many, but when they threaten people and the owner won't control them I have no problem removing the threat.

 

So you killed the dog who wasn't trained properly?

 

Nice!

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So you killed the dog who wasn't trained properly?

 

Nice!

 

I don't know if I'd share it online, but if there were a dog in my neighborhood that threatened me, my wife, or especially my child, and the owner and the city would not address the issue, I would, and in more certain terms than a hammer blow. :)

 

P.S. Ed has that old man strength, (I've shaken his hand a time or three.) so a hammer blow was probably more certain for him. :D<_<

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Seeing that the cache owner would not remove this cache. I thought I would try my luck with the reviewer in the area.

 

Their response was that the property owner had granted permission and as long as permission was granted the cache could stay.

 

They also went on to say this is a part of caching, that if someone broke their leg trying to climb a tree to retrieve a cache the cache wouldn't be removed for being dangerous.

 

I don't agree with that remark what so ever. There are dangers with this sport and you can pick and choose which caches to choose based on the terrain rating and cache description.

 

This cache has an inherent danger being the renter of the property. My comments will slip towards the bottom and eventually not been seen on the first cache page.

 

The cachers retreiving this cache will not have any warning about the violent renter they may run into while caching.

 

I have done my part to try and warn cachers in our area of this danger. I have washed my hands of the responsiblity I feel. If any more blood is shed at this cache it will not be on my hands, but on the cache owner's hand's and the reviewer in our area.

 

Our GPS has been sitting on the counter just calling my name as I walk out the door each day. There is a new 40 cache Harry Potter series that has recently been posted and I am starting to ge the itch to go back out. Not sure I can muster up the courage to go out yet, but at least the itch is there.

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So you killed the dog who wasn't trained properly?

 

Nice!

 

I don't know if I'd share it online, but if there were a dog in my neighborhood that threatened me, my wife, or especially my child, and the owner and the city would not address the issue, I would, and in more certain terms than a hammer blow. :)

 

P.S. Ed has that old man strength, (I've shaken his hand a time or three.) so a hammer blow was probably more certain for him. :D<_<

 

It's amazing how much respect I've lost for some people in the last hour.

 

Pepper spray works on dogs too ya know.

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Seeing that the cache owner would not remove this cache. I thought I would try my luck with the reviewer in the area.

 

Their response was that the property owner had granted permission and as long as permission was granted the cache could stay.

 

They also went on to say this is a part of caching, that if someone broke their leg trying to climb a tree to retrieve a cache the cache wouldn't be removed for being dangerous.

 

I don't agree with that remark what so ever. There are dangers with this sport and you can pick and choose which caches to choose based on the terrain rating and cache description.

 

This cache has an inherent danger being the renter of the property. My comments will slip towards the bottom and eventually not been seen on the first cache page.

 

The cachers retreiving this cache will not have any warning about the violent renter they may run into while caching.

 

I have done my part to try and warn cachers in our area of this danger. I have washed my hands of the responsiblity I feel. If any more blood is shed at this cache it will not be on my hands, but on the cache owner's hand's and the reviewer in our area.

 

Our GPS has been sitting on the counter just calling my name as I walk out the door each day. There is a new 40 cache Harry Potter series that has recently been posted and I am starting to ge the itch to go back out. Not sure I can muster up the courage to go out yet, but at least the itch is there.

I had a cache very much like this issues for a while. It was located in an interesting rock face cut for the road.

 

There was a neighbor about a quarter-mile up the road who began to approach cachers telling them that the property belonged to him and that they had to leave. I checked with the county and they assured me that it was right-of-way and that his property did not begin anywhere near the cache location.

 

So I left it in place, but added a note to the cache page that it was on highway department maintained property and to ignore the loon from up the road should he come gums flapping (okay, that wasn't my exact wording!).

 

Having been given the heads-up in the cache description as well as in a forum thread in our local caching association the next several cachers to be accosted treated it like a joke and ignored the old guy.

 

Then the old guy got to be really annoying... he'd watch for cars stopped there and when he saw one he'd hustle down there to hassle them.

 

Not all cachers appreciated the humor of the situation, some complained, so I archived it.

 

My point is, your cache can be perfectly in compliance with the guidelines, can have explicit permission, but there could be some situation that causes it to be a bad experience for the cacher. When that happens, no matter how righteous your cache, please archive it rather than getting cachers hassled.

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It's amazing how much respect I've lost for some people in the last hour.

Bummer, because I know how much you respected me before now! :)

 

I used to, yeah.

Pepper spray works on dogs too ya know.

And on owners that won't control their dogs, too, or so I've been told! <_<

 

Exactly.

 

Of course there is always the option of avoiding the dog instead of murdering it.

 

Which is the point of this thread. There ARE options available in most any aggressive situation.

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Of course there is always the option of avoiding the dog instead of murdering it.

 

 

It is not possible to "murder" a dog. A dog is not a person. And in the case described earlier in this thread, if the dog had been a person, his death would not have been a murder. It is not murder to kill in self-defense.

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It's amazing how much respect I've lost for some people in the last hour.

Bummer, because I know how much you respected me before now! :)

 

I used to, yeah.

Pepper spray works on dogs too ya know.

And on owners that won't control their dogs, too, or so I've been told! <_<

 

Exactly.

 

Of course there is always the option of avoiding the dog instead of murdering it.

 

Which is the point of this thread. There ARE options available in most any aggressive situation.

 

Avoiding the dog? Yeah, I guess the other people who lived on that street could stay in their houses all the time... or just drive. Walking down the street where they live (hey, I think that's a song!) - well, how dare they complain if they get bitten by a wild dog? They could have avoided it! (Except dogs tend to be mobile - it's the whole four-legs thing.)

 

N.B. I'm not a dog person.

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I think I would have organized a group hike to the location of the problematic cache. I do it all the time and my companions being somewhat childlike in their naivete are willing participants. <_<

 

As for Dogs, there is only one approach: Calm Assertive Energy.

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Seeing that the cache owner would not remove this cache. I thought I would try my luck with the reviewer in the area.

 

Their response was that the property owner had granted permission and as long as permission was granted the cache could stay.

 

They also went on to say this is a part of caching, that if someone broke their leg trying to climb a tree to retrieve a cache the cache wouldn't be removed for being dangerous.

 

I don't agree with that remark what so ever. There are dangers with this sport and you can pick and choose which caches to choose based on the terrain rating and cache description.

 

This cache has an inherent danger being the renter of the property. My comments will slip towards the bottom and eventually not been seen on the first cache page.

 

The cachers retreiving this cache will not have any warning about the violent renter they may run into while caching.

 

I have done my part to try and warn cachers in our area of this danger. I have washed my hands of the responsiblity I feel. If any more blood is shed at this cache it will not be on my hands, but on the cache owner's hand's and the reviewer in our area.

 

Our GPS has been sitting on the counter just calling my name as I walk out the door each day. There is a new 40 cache Harry Potter series that has recently been posted and I am starting to ge the itch to go back out. Not sure I can muster up the courage to go out yet, but at least the itch is there.

 

 

 

Glad to see you are getting the itch again. The shock of the first few days can be the worst, but the spirit usually bounces back after you've had a little time. It's amazing to me how many times someone can be knocked down and get back up again. It's one of the best qualities to have. The first cache will be the hardest, but each one will get easier. Take care.

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Of course there is always the option of avoiding the dog instead of murdering it.

Imagine this attitude on a Jury:

 

"Yes, I know Mr Smith kicked in the defendants door.

Yes, I know Mr Smith threatened the defendant's children with a chainsaw.

The defendant still should've avoided Mr Smith instead of MURDERING him!"

 

Is there a time tested Uber Genius method for avoiding aggressive dogs whilst I'm walking down the street?

 

Last I heard, they run a whole lot faster than I do. <_<

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Of course there is always the option of avoiding the dog instead of murdering it.

Imagine this attitude on a Jury:

 

"Yes, I know Mr Smith kicked in the defendants door.

Yes, I know Mr Smith threatened the defendant's children with a chainsaw.

The defendant still should've avoided Mr Smith instead of MURDERING him!"

 

Is there a time tested Uber Genius method for avoiding aggressive dogs whilst I'm walking down the street?

 

Last I heard, they run a whole lot faster than I do. <_<

 

Hilarious how some would compare a dog jumping against someones car door with a chainsaw wielding, door kicking down, home intruder.

 

And I also find it disturbing how people would defend someone who would bash the head of a dog with a named hammer for jumping against his car door. Equally disturbing that we are supposed to believe that it was an act of self defense like people routinely carry a hammer with them as self defense.

 

Of course the followup of zero remorse would indicate quite a bit to a psychologist, especially with the revelation of an incident decades earlier.

 

But, hey, who am I to judge, right?

 

 

Now, enough of the off-topic sideshow. I won't respond to this incident further. Have fun if you want to believe it's an admission of some sort of failure on my part.

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Hilarious how some would compare a dog jumping against someones car door with a chainsaw wielding, door kicking down, home intruder.

That's OK. The non-Uber Geniuses in the crowd got the reference. :P

 

I won't respond to this incident further.

Does that mean you don't have a time tested Uber Genius method for avoiding aggressive dogs whilst I'm walking down the street? :D

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What was this thread about, again?

 

It started out about a poor family that was accosted at a cache by a drunken fool and then degenerated to ridiculous posts from people with guns, pepper spray and hammers that want to kill anything they are afraid of including dogs.

 

I think that most of us have no problem with responsible owners of firearms, pepper spray and even hammers.

 

Keep up Acquaintance of Chad!

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What was this thread about, again?

 

It started out about a poor family that was accosted at a cache by a drunken fool and then degenerated to ridiculous posts from people with guns, pepper spray and hammers that want to kill anything they are afraid of including dogs.

 

I think that most of us have no problem with responsible owners of firearms, pepper spray and even hammers.

 

Keep up Acquaintance of Chad!

Actually it started out about an unfortunate encounter with a violent person on a cache hunt, morphed into a discussion of whether the OP should or should not arm themselves, and from there to dangers at a cache site and whether caches placed where encounters with belligerent people or animals are likely should be archived for the sake of the cachers.

 

With a few off-trail forays it looks to me like it's pretty much on track with the theme of the OP.

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