For those that enjoy the puzzle/mystery caches...

[+Knight2000]

Knight2000 background... Of our caches placed we usually have the largest size possible for a location. A minimum of 10 smalls and 10 regulars. All of our micros are atypical. None are what seems the standard micro key holder or film can. As we have kids we tend to place caches that we would like.

 

Onward to the discussion. I have some challenge caches rolling around in my head. (Logging requirement caches.) I would like to put out decent sizes but we have yet to bring ourselves to tossing a small into a bush at the local drug store or whatever. I can't really seem to think of any places to put a regular or small at this time. I assume that those who will meet the requirements will be, as I say, "In it for the cache".

 

Is a micro acceptable for this? Not a film can or key holder but a still a micro. Would the size of the cache affect whether you may or may not try to attain the requirements to log this cache?

 

Thanks for your input.

[Mr.Yuck]

Knight2000 background... Of our caches placed we usually have the largest size possible for a location. A minimum of 10 smalls and 10 regulars. All of our micros are atypical. None are what seems the standard micro key holder or film can. As we have kids we tend to place caches that we would like.

 

Onward to the discussion. I have some challenge caches rolling around in my head. (Logging requirement caches.) I would like to put out decent sizes but we have yet to bring ourselves to tossing a small into a bush at the local drug store or whatever. I can't really seem to think of any places to put a regular or small at this time. I assume that those who will meet the requirements will be, as I say, "In it for the cache".

 

Is a micro acceptable for this? Not a film can or key holder but a still a micro. Would the size of the cache affect whether you may or may not try to attain the requirements to log this cache?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Hey, where you going with that thanks for your input? Wrong thread, buddy.

 

For me. Yes. There have been several puzzles in my area that I suspected ended with film canisters under lampskirts, and I have asked the local "puzzle expert" if that is indeed where they were located. If they were, I didn't even attempt the puzzles, and ignored them.

 

I would think there are some people who would be disappointed solving a puzzle or meeting challenge requirements to log "a small can tossed into the bushes at the local drug store or whatever". But probably not too many. Most wouldn't care.

 

Believe it or not, I do actually know that I'm a grumpy, obnoxious old-schooler, and most people aren't.

Edited April 9, 2010 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+dfx]

many people go for puzzle caches for the sake of solving the puzzle only. for those, the actual cache location and nature of the cache such as size will be secondary at best. of course having a large cache and/or the cache in a nice location will be a bonus, but won't be essential.

 

but opinions will vary greatly.

[+Knight2000]

Believe it or not, I do actually know that I'm a grumpy, obnoxious old-schooler, and most people aren't.

You're not the only one.

 

This micro would not be a film can tossed somewhere. It would be in a decent location. Maybe a small tobacco tin, magnetic match container, or small lock & lock. Don't worry about the container type. We keep all of our caches dry! (At least the ones that need to be!)

 

By the way- I am sick of finding micros that are listed as small caches! (Just because it can take trade items does not mean it is a small!)

[+BlueDeuce]

many people go for puzzle caches for the sake of solving the puzzle only. for those, the actual cache location and nature of the cache such as size will be secondary at best. of course having a large cache and/or the cache in a nice location will be a bonus, but won't be essential.

 

Reverse for me. Puzzles are nice but location/size are my primary reasons for going to log the cache. I have my crossword puzzles for when I'm sitting at home drinking coffee.

[+BlueDeuce]

This micro would not be a film can tossed somewhere. It would be in a decent location. Maybe a small tobacco tin, magnetic match container, or small lock & lock. Don't worry about the container type. We keep all of our caches dry! (At least the ones that need to be!)

 

In that case it sounds just fine.

[+Castle Mischief]

Huh. I posted this exact same question before creating my own puzzle cache of micro size. Let me see if I can find it...

 

EDIT: Here it is: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...p;#entry4043457

 

For further consideration, of my two puzzles, the micro is getting more finds than the regular sized cache:

 

EYE DEE MEE Size Regular.

 

Get Shorty Size Micro.

 

Could be for any number of reasons.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Castle Mischief

[+dfx]

many people go for puzzle caches for the sake of solving the puzzle only. for those, the actual cache location and nature of the cache such as size will be secondary at best. of course having a large cache and/or the cache in a nice location will be a bonus, but won't be essential.

 

Reverse for me. Puzzles are nice but location/size are my primary reasons for going to log the cache. I have my crossword puzzles for when I'm sitting at home drinking coffee.

but you dont get smilies for solving crossword puzzles!!!!!!!

 

[+tzipora]

I think it depends on the puzzle, really. Think about your target audience (which you're obviously already doing) and satisfy their expectations.

 

If it's a puzzle that's meant for kids to solve and find, then a regular cache is probably best.

If it's a difficult puzzle, then a micro in an urban-but-not-lame location is just fine.

If the challenge is physical (like finding caches on local peaks or something), then a lamp post hide is probably not the right payoff.

If it's a weak puzzle, a "weaker" cache is probably just about right.

 

To me, a puzzle/mystery cache is a way to introduce a different type of challenge to the hide. Some caches are challenging because it's just flat-out tough to get there. Others are challenging because they blend in well with the location. Puzzles can combine elements of the two, but have an additional problem-solving challenge.

 

I have to say that the LPC I found as a result of a puzzle was my favorite LPC. There's something to be said for "training" caches. Many of us don't get the opportunity to do that kind of thinking in our daily lives, so we're not quite ready for the über-difficult cyphers and devious story problems yet. But if I solved one of those suckers and *it* was an LPC, I'd find that disappointing.

[+Kit Fox]

Knight2000 background... Of our caches placed we usually have the largest size possible for a location. A minimum of 10 smalls and 10 regulars. All of our micros are atypical. None are what seems the standard micro key holder or film can. As we have kids we tend to place caches that we would like.

 

Onward to the discussion. I have some challenge caches rolling around in my head. (Logging requirement caches.) I would like to put out decent sizes but we have yet to bring ourselves to tossing a small into a bush at the local drug store or whatever. I can't really seem to think of any places to put a regular or small at this time. I assume that those who will meet the requirements will be, as I say, "In it for the cache".

 

Is a micro acceptable for this? Not a film can or key holder but a still a micro. Would the size of the cache affect whether you may or may not try to attain the requirements to log this cache?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

The greatest puzzle I've ever solved and found the dragonfly scroll, was a pill bottle devoid of swag (except for a Yellow Jeep TB). I was not disappointed in the least at the amount of swag, or the size of the cache.

 

The prize for me was the sense of accomplishment, a fantastic hike with two friends, and the scenery at the geocache.

 

[+GeoGeeBee]

I'll throw my two cents in.

 

I really enjoy solving puzzles. And I have found more than my share of micros. I'm not a micro hater, I don't filter them out of my PQ's, but I prefer a container with a real log book (not just a scroll) and room for swag or travel bugs.

 

I guess the real sense of accomplishment comes from solving the puzzle, so the size of the container shouldn't matter. But I still remember one particular puzzle, a very difficult one. It took me hours to solve, and when I plugged the coordinates into Google maps I saw that the location was next to a nearby rails-to-trails. I knew the area well, and couldn't wait to get out there and find the cache.

 

So on Saturday morning I headed out. From the trailhead it would have been about a mile, but I had figured out that I could park in a certain shopping center where the back parking lot was close to the trail, and only be a quarter-mile or so from the final. I followed the trail, watching my GPS, until the arrow swung to the left. It was pointing to a wooded area about 50 yards wide, between the paved trail and an apartment complex.

 

I left the trail and continued to follow the area to ground zero. There, right at ground zero, was a HUGE hollow tree stump. I looked inside, and didn't see anything. Looked around at some other potential hiding places, but the GPS kept pointing me back at the tree stump. On closer examination, I found it... a bison tube hanging inside the stump on a piece of fishing line.

 

My heart sank... all that effort, just to put my initials on a tiny scroll?

 

Like I said above, it shouldn't matter. I had a nice hike, I had the satisfaction of solving a really difficult puzzle. The fact that the final was a log-only micro shouldn't have made a bit of difference.

 

But it did.

[+Vater_Araignee]

If you make it a large it will end up on my to do list, and I'm about 70 miles from the piece of Michigan you guys stole from us.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Vater_Araignee

[+Knight2000]

We would love a large container! We would put it out if we had a place. I'm not a fan of just putting one anywhere. We've got a lot of containers and no where to put them...

 

My intended cache is nothing more than a traditional at the listed coordinates with a logging requirement. If you're in it for the cache, have at it. If you want to earn the smiley then you must meet the requirements. I'm not too much of a fan because I don't like the idea of having to delete logs but I do like the idea of a challenge.

 

The one I am contemplating is a benchmark challenge. I have started to search for them and waymark some of them and I find the search strangely very enjoyable. Looking for something hidden with clues, a tape measure and a shovel interests me. Especially if it hasn't been reported found in a long time. (20+ years or more.)

 

It's not anything new and has been done before. I thought of adding a twist and making it a point system. Get X amount of points to log and have point values for each activity.

 

Re: GeoGeeBee

 

I do like the idea of a full size log book. I think the days of the intended log book requirements have passed. Now it has reverted to simply signing your name instead of telling of your search/fun.

[+narcissa]

I appreciate larger cache containers, but I wouldn't be deterred from solving an otherwise decent puzzle or multi just because the container was small.

[+cachensfun]

We know some people that will not look for micros. We happen to like them. Just put out a new one a couple days ago. D4 and the FTFer DNF it before he found it. He told us it took almost two hours to find.

[+Chrysalides]

My take : cache size does not matter. The puzzle does. An in-theme location would be better than a nice location.

 

However, since you're not hiding it for me only, it's probably better to check with your local cachers to see what they think.

[+Knight2000]

I love putting out micros. Our micros are different though. Usually custom made and we try to be tricky. We shoot for DNF's although we have yet to come up with a D4 per clayjar. I like to try to challenge you. Or make you laugh. Or curse. Or both.

[+Chrysalides]

I love putting out micros. Our micros are different though. Usually custom made and we try to be tricky. We shoot for DNF's although we have yet to come up with a D4 per clayjar. I like to try to challenge you. Or make you laugh. Or curse. Or both.

In that case, I feel whether it is a puzzle or traditional is immaterial. So long as you think it is fun (and it sounds like fun to me) then that is all that matters.

[GOF and Bacall]

I will go back and actually read the responses but I like to answer first when these kind of threads come up.

 

I have been called a micro hater by more than one of my fellow cachers. I don't feel that I deserve that appellation. It is not micro caches that I don't like but rather the locations that most of them are hidden. If your challenge leads to a nice location and the container is location appropriate I'd probably enjoy it.

[GOF and Bacall]

many people go for puzzle caches for the sake of solving the puzzle only. for those, the actual cache location and nature of the cache such as size will be secondary at best. of course having a large cache and/or the cache in a nice location will be a bonus, but won't be essential.

 

Reverse for me. Puzzles are nice but location/size are my primary reasons for going to log the cache. I have my crossword puzzles for when I'm sitting at home drinking coffee.

but you dont get smilies for solving crossword puzzles!!!!!!!

 

 

Yeah. 'cause getting smilies is SO important.

[GOF and Bacall]

I'll throw my two cents in.

 

I really enjoy solving puzzles. And I have found more than my share of micros. I'm not a micro hater, I don't filter them out of my PQ's, but I prefer a container with a real log book (not just a scroll) and room for swag or travel bugs.

 

I guess the real sense of accomplishment comes from solving the puzzle, so the size of the container shouldn't matter. But I still remember one particular puzzle, a very difficult one. It took me hours to solve, and when I plugged the coordinates into Google maps I saw that the location was next to a nearby rails-to-trails. I knew the area well, and couldn't wait to get out there and find the cache.

 

So on Saturday morning I headed out. From the trailhead it would have been about a mile, but I had figured out that I could park in a certain shopping center where the back parking lot was close to the trail, and only be a quarter-mile or so from the final. I followed the trail, watching my GPS, until the arrow swung to the left. It was pointing to a wooded area about 50 yards wide, between the paved trail and an apartment complex.

 

I left the trail and continued to follow the area to ground zero. There, right at ground zero, was a HUGE hollow tree stump. I looked inside, and didn't see anything. Looked around at some other potential hiding places, but the GPS kept pointing me back at the tree stump. On closer examination, I found it... a bison tube hanging inside the stump on a piece of fishing line.

 

My heart sank... all that effort, just to put my initials on a tiny scroll?

 

Like I said above, it shouldn't matter. I had a nice hike, I had the satisfaction of solving a really difficult puzzle. The fact that the final was a log-only micro shouldn't have made a bit of difference.

 

But it did.

 

I do like a good log book. I like reading the old posts and leaving at least a line or two of my own wandering thoughts. Lack of room. The real downside to micros and nanos.

[+WRASTRO]

I have solved and found many puzzle caches. I am frequently disappointed when I find the actual cache and it is simply sucky. I really do not understand why cachers go to all of the trouble to create cool puzzles and then place lame hides. To me the actual cache is still the final factor for my overall evaluation of the cache. I don't really care what size the container may be, but a guardrail hide or a bus stop hide don't get me to hopped up.

[+Harry Dolphin]

To me, cache size is not as important as the location. If it's a great location, and the only feasible hide is a micro, then go for it! I have several mystery caches where the container is a micro (and even a nano). The views are spectacular. People may complain about the puzzles, but no one has complained that the caches were too small.

[+GPS_David]

aww heck, i'll add my two cents too!

 

In the grand scheme of things, what does it matter. Everyone has a different idea of what is correct and what is not correct.

 

Personally, I don't like sitting around doing puzzles when I can be out searching for caches. Since the puzzles come up on my list, I will do the puzzles and find the cache.

 

I'd rather not go through the trouble of solving a puzzle to find out there is a film canister under the skirt of a parking lot light but my biggest pet peeve (not just puzzles) is hiking into the woods to find a film canister tucked into the crotch of a tree when there is a huge stump, or a hollow fallen that is crying out for a larger geocache.

 

But we all have our different opinions so I just play along and hope I can find that needle in a haystack.

[Mr.Yuck]

I have solved and found many puzzle caches. I am frequently disappointed when I find the actual cache and it is simply sucky. I really do not understand why cachers go to all of the trouble to create cool puzzles and then place lame hides. To me the actual cache is still the final factor for my overall evaluation of the cache. I don't really care what size the container may be, but a guardrail hide or a bus stop hide don't get me to hopped up.

 

I was the very first respondent, and said I have actually asked people if micro ending puzzles were in "sucky" locations before deciding to even do them. Example, some guy placed 4 relatively easy puzzle micros in my area on the same day. I asked the local puzzle expert if they were in store parking lots. Three of the four were, and you guessed it, I only solved the one that was on a bike trail, and ignored the other three. I just randomly picked Wrastro's post, as that seems to be the consensus. But I still think most Geocachers couldn't care less where the end location is, despite the "forum consensus".

 

However, it would be nice if you went with the forum consensus, and put the micro in a nice location.

[+fizzymagic]

I like to leave new, unregistered geocoins in good puzzle caches as a sign that I liked them. Having a container big enough for that helps a lot.

 

Actually, I like big containers with decent contents on hard puzzles. The lack of traffic makes for much better swag, and, for some reason, it seems that people who have to work hard to get the cache coordinates are more likely to trade well.

[+Knight2000]

Ack. It seems 50/50.

[+J the Goat]

We would love a large container! We would put it out if we had a place. I'm not a fan of just putting one anywhere. We've got a lot of containers and no where to put them...

 

My intended cache is nothing more than a traditional at the listed coordinates with a logging requirement. If you're in it for the cache, have at it. If you want to earn the smiley then you must meet the requirements. I'm not too much of a fan because I don't like the idea of having to delete logs but I do like the idea of a challenge.

 

The one I am contemplating is a benchmark challenge. I have started to search for them and waymark some of them and I find the search strangely very enjoyable. Looking for something hidden with clues, a tape measure and a shovel interests me. Especially if it hasn't been reported found in a long time. (20+ years or more.)

 

It's not anything new and has been done before. I thought of adding a twist and making it a point system. Get X amount of points to log and have point values for each activity.

 

Re: GeoGeeBee

 

I do like the idea of a full size log book. I think the days of the intended log book requirements have passed. Now it has reverted to simply signing your name instead of telling of your search/fun.

 

Am I the only one who's picked up on this?

[+Zor]

It's a completely different story in my area.

 

There's two cachers in my area who have put out a pile of what they call Micro Logic puzzles (see GC209TQ for an example). I think they've hid 60-70 of these in all parts of our city and another city in our province. They were at an event recently and talked about how for them, it's all about the puzzle itself. They said that they think most puzzle caches should be micros and in uninteresting places.

 

Their logic was that you spend all kinds of time working on the puzzle aspect so THAT is the adventure part. The puzzle, not the actual cache. Finding the cache itself is just a smiley. Solving the puzzles themselves are the fun part.

 

Now I don't think that all puzzles should be like that but I kind of see the point. I think that it depends on the puzzle but personally, I see no issue with having puzzles take you to either a really good place with a good sized container, or a micro in a lame place. Depends on the puzzle.

 

I recently hid 100 regular traditional caches which need to be found in order to solve 3 puzzle caches. For all 3 puzzles, they are just in the woods in nowhere special, but the containers themselves are large. My thought is that if they spent THAT much time gathering clues and solving the puzzle, I'm going to make the container easy to find.

 

Just my thoughts

[+Knight2000]

I recently hid 100 regular traditional caches which need to be found in order to solve 3 puzzle caches. For all 3 puzzles, they are just in the woods in nowhere special, but the containers themselves are large. My thought is that if they spent THAT much time gathering clues and solving the puzzle, I'm going to make the container easy to find.

 

Just my thoughts

I've got to hive you props man. At first I thought, Oh no. More film cans strewn everywhere. Hats off to you. It looks like you don't even know what a micro is! That's a lot of regulars!

[+DocDiTTo]

I've been known to solve a great puzzle cache and then not even bother with the actual cache find -- regardless of container size. I probably have over a dozen puzzle caches solved now that I haven't yet found. If I know the final is is a great location, it'll get on my "to do" list... but if the final is just a parking lot hide, eh, I have plenty of smilies already, so one more really doesn't do much for me.

 

I have been known to go find "meh" type caches just because they were attached to a REALLY HARD puzzle though. In those cases, the puzzle, not the cache, it what added the fun. Signing those logs is almost a badge of honor -- regardless of size.

 

The few puzzle caches I've hidden have all been regular containers, as far as I know (and I don't care enough to go check right now). But, I always try to use regular containers, because I have a bunch of ammo cans in the shed my wife would like me to get rid of....

 

... and they are the caches I most like to find, so that's what I try to hide.

[+K T S]

Now I don't think that all puzzles should be like that but I kind of see the point. I think that it depends on the puzzle but personally, I see no issue with having puzzles take you to either a really good place with a good sized container, or a micro in a lame place. Depends on the puzzle.

 

I agree that it is the puzzle that makes the cache great. I would not be disappointed with a small container as long as it had some character and log book with some size. As others have posted, I too like to be able to read the log book and add my story as well.

 

I am more concerned about the puzzle itself, I want either something that is challenging or takes me to interesting locations.

[+joukkusisu]

The way I see it, every cache needs an appealing aspect, a "get." To me, the puzzle is the get for puzzle caches, so size and location doesn't necessarily matter. There's a certain prolific placer in my area who puts out a lot of challenge caches, such as find 100 BMs, or visit every county in the state, etc. Most of the finals are film cans at the base of BM witness posts. At first, we were miffed by this, why go through all that work and end with a film can? But it sort of makes sense. If it was big enough to hold trackables, then any coin or bug placed in it would be stuck there until the next blue moon when a cacher finally meets the challenge requirements to find it. It's also not so much about the smiley, as much as it is the bragging rights.

[+dfx]

There's two cachers in my area who have put out a pile of what they call Micro Logic puzzles (see GC209TQ for an example). I think they've hid 60-70 of these in all parts of our city and another city in our province. They were at an event recently and talked about how for them, it's all about the puzzle itself. They said that they think most puzzle caches should be micros and in uninteresting places.

 

Their logic was that you spend all kinds of time working on the puzzle aspect so THAT is the adventure part. The puzzle, not the actual cache. Finding the cache itself is just a smiley. Solving the puzzles themselves are the fun part.

i totally see the point of that. in fact, i have a few caches like that myself. however, i'm not gonna flood the area with caches like that, because i know not everybody thinks the same way as me and people are in the game for different reasons.

 

on the other end of the scale, i know a few areas which indeed are flooded with puzzle caches, and most of them are totally uninteresting to me. it was up to a point that was really ridiculous, people putting out caches in lame hiding spots with equally lame puzzles, just for the sake of having some puzzle cache themselves.

[+GeoGeeBee]

In spite of my earlier post, I may be about to hide my first micro. A nano, in fact.

 

It's going to be a difficult puzzle, with a spy theme. A nano just seems to fit the theme. I know when I'm in a very public place, discretely grabbing a blinkie makes me feel like James Bond.

 

Hmmm.... I wonder if I can have a "FTF Award" printed on microfilm?

Edited April 16, 2010 by GeoGeeBee