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Beep Beep! Naatsédlózii Roadrunner 'Cache Me If You Can' Geocoin!


Odyssey Voyager
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well, after more than a month and several edits and re-edits, there is finally some artwork ready to be submitted to the factory. the good news is that the roadrunner design now has some cool features including half-height graphics with some translucent color for the regular editions, and an artist two-tone edition. the bad news is that the edit changes have raised the costs significantly. i'd like some feedback from the interested members here as to whether a special, FORUM MEMBERS ONLY, price of $11.00 per geocoin (this price includes U.S. shipping) for the translucent regular editions, would generate any interest? keep in mind that in addition to the translucent color, these geocoins would be trackable, and have a unique icon, and they are fairly large at 2 inches long (5.1cm)!

 

the decision to proceed with this project, hinges on the replies i receive here, so don't be shy. please speak up and voice your opinion, however critical your opinion may be. i won't be offended. i know it is difficult to comment on a design you have not seen in the finished form yet, but i will post the submitted artwork once the project gets the green light. i would really like to leave a little bit of the design somewhat of a mystery for now. everybody likes surprises, don't they?! i hope you all understand. i appreciate your replies and comments! :grin:

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Since it is such a special coin.... I'm still in (sight unseen). Maybe even for 2 depending, but definitely for 1.

I'd be interested in one.

Count me in for at least one, perhaps the set. I loved your Trojan coins so much I got the whole set; I could very well do the same here. :D

 

CF30

thanks for the support! its nice to see some interest, even if it comes from the wiley coyote, a fellow new mexico resident, and a bird lover! :)

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Did you pick a name yet? After seeing the art, I'd be interested, and I'm especially intrigued if you chose one of the Looney Tunes-esque faux-Latin names.

thank you for the reply and for your interest. as a matter of fact, i have selected an official name. it was a name suggested in this thread. i will reveal the official name at the same time i post the official artwork. stay tuned! :)

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Did the Roadrunner evolve from a velociraptor?

It sure looks like one and acts like one. At least when compared to the Jurassic Park movies.

 

Velocicacher!

 

<edit> OOPS, forgot to add that I want one.

Edited by Minimike2
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I'd definitely be interested in one (or two)... I'm just starting out with coin collecting, and from the concept art, this one looks very unique, and really awesome. So, count me in for at least one definite "yes". ;)

 

**Edited to remove a silly question that was answered in the OP's original post. Oops!

Edited by rokito87
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Has the artwork arrived? Can't wait!

i'm still waiting on the mint company to get back to me. china has like a hundred holidays, and apparently they just had another one recently, so all work stops! geez...if they want to take over the world, they are gonna need to learn from walmart...24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year! c'mon china! :cry:

 

anyway, i have my fingers crossed for some time this week. geocoin design is always such a "hurry up and wait" situation...lol...but haste makes waste, so i'll be patient. :P sorry about the delay...but i hope this gives everyone a chance to save their pennies for this one! :)

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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I'm surprised no one else remembered the other moose mob/road runner geocoin, Been There Found It...

 

IMG_NEW-6-10.jpg

 

ILYK

 

isn't this what we are talking about in the other thread, using a cartoon that is created without permission from warner bros? i don't think this is legal.

 

are you using a photograph of a roadrunner that you took, or a photo taken by someone else of a roadrunner to create your coin?

 

rsg

Edited by RedShoesGirl
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isn't this what we are talking about in the other thread, using a cartoon that is created without permission from warner bros? i don't think this is legal.

 

are you using a photograph of a roadrunner that you took, or a photo taken by someone else of a roadrunner to create your coin?

 

rsg

i am so very glad you have asked this question! thank you for allowing me a forum to express my own view point, especially as it relates to my designs.

 

there seems to be some "gray areas" (legally and ethically) as to how a designer can use a works previously created by someone else. apparently, if you have an image that is "similar to" but not "exactly like" a copyright image, you can use it. the gray area is in "how much" you can alter an image to make it different. some images i've seen on geocoins are "significantly" different from copyright art, others (such as the roadrunner cartoon image seen on these older geocoins pictured above) are very similar to the copyright art! is it copyright infringement?! i suppose only a judge can decide, and only IF the owner of the copyright feels their toes have been stepped on. its all a rather SUBJECTIVE issue.

 

anyway, with all that being said, the beauty of the age we live in now, is that when it comes to design, we no longer have to "re-invent the wheel" each and every time we create a new design. what does this mean?! i mean, the difficult ground work has already been laid out for us to make designing much easier while still allowing us to be creative. let me give an example: an interior designer uses their creativity to make spaces more appealing to the people that occupy that space. do they actually make the furniture and art and colors they use in their interior design by hand? not necessarily. are they infringing on the rights of the furniture maker? most people would say "no". yet, an interior designer is still considered a creative person, maybe even a "artist" for designing living space.

 

my point is, we can use the tools available to design without losing the ability to be creative. i am an artist by nature. i can draw and paint. i could draw a roadrunner by hand if i wanted to, but personally, i don't see the point of "re-inventing the wheel" (going back to pencil and paper) when my paint program can do that so much more efficiently! so, anyway, to address your question, in my designs, i incorporate some design elements of clipart, perhaps even actual photographs, graphics, fonts, colors, special effects, to design the spaces on a geocoin. much like an interior designer. as a matter of fact, that is how i approach my geocoin design work, use the tools available to create a space that is appealing, efficient, and functional. much as the phrase associated with frank lloyd wright: "form follows function". :ph34r:

 

in the case of the roadrunner you will see on my geocoin, i have used up to 3 "free domain" photographs (that i would have probably used to draw the image with a pencil), and i cropped some elements of the bird from each photo, i then morphed the images together, through a difficult process of resizing, enlarging. and reducing. once i found a perfect fit, i used a special paint tool effect to create a black and white image, then another tool to render an ink like effect, then i went in with the paint tool and carefully removed and added details to make the graphic workable as a 2 dimensional piece of light and dark, capable of receiving metal and antique stain in contrast. the bottom line is, i spent many, many, hours using the tools available to create a new and totally unique design. did i use the work others had previously done to make my design easier? yes. am i worried that my final work will be compared to another artist? no. in my opinion, i have "altered" the original significantly enough to say, my work is my own through creative process.

 

the same principle applies to my previosly produced "trojan horse" design. you may find some elements of it somewhere else (the fonts, the geocaching logo, the anthemia graphic, etc.), but you will not see ALL of these elements combined and arranged in such a way as to create a totally new and unique final product.

 

some people here want a geocoin designed from the ground up. all hand drawn with a pencil or carved into a wall. some even think the geocoin should be minted by hand in a home made metal works shop with metal they mined out of the ground themselves. everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this matter of how original is original. however, my personal point of view is, make use of the tools available to make a design of your own, without "re-inventing the wheel". 'nuff sed. peace. :rolleyes:

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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I find myself to agree with RSG for the most part on copyright issues. I don't think I could ever bring myself to use a Warner Brothers image on something that I am doing. But I think it is more for fear of getting in trouble! LOL

 

That being said, after I read RSG's question, I looked at your art, then I googled pictures of a roadrunner. Quite frankly, you could have taken your inspiration from hundreds of them! LOL I think a roadrunner is a roadrunner is a roadrunner. Unless it is in some famous pose, how can you really tell what photo it comes from?

 

Same goes for horses. There are thousands of pictures of horses out there. Unless it is in some pose, such as winning a race, or something readily identifiable, how can you tell where it came from?

 

The opposite is also true. If you hand draw a picture of a horse, I'll bet you will be able to find a photo with a horse in the same pose. You may never have seen it before you drew the horse, but that doesn't change the fact that your drawing might be similar to a photo of a horse that someone has taken.

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I find myself to agree with RSG for the most part on copyright issues. I don't think I could ever bring myself to use a Warner Brothers image on something that I am doing. But I think it is more for fear of getting in trouble! LOL

 

That being said, after I read RSG's question, I looked at your art, then I googled pictures of a roadrunner. Quite frankly, you could have taken your inspiration from hundreds of them! LOL I think a roadrunner is a roadrunner is a roadrunner. Unless it is in some famous pose, how can you really tell what photo it comes from?

 

Same goes for horses. There are thousands of pictures of horses out there. Unless it is in some pose, such as winning a race, or something readily identifiable, how can you tell where it came from?

 

The opposite is also true. If you hand draw a picture of a horse, I'll bet you will be able to find a photo with a horse in the same pose. You may never have seen it before you drew the horse, but that doesn't change the fact that your drawing might be similar to a photo of a horse that someone has taken.

 

after reading odessy's and joni's i have to say i agree with the most part. the part i have the hardest time with is looking at a photograph, making a painting from that photo, perhaps changing the background a little, but the essential areas are the same, almost exactly the same. where any unbiased person, like a judge, could look at the photo and at the painting and see the blatant similarities.

 

if someone could direct me to which part of the copyright law it says what percentage of the original must be changed in order to make it ok, i would appreciate it.

 

the analogy to an interieor decorator is flawed. when a furniture designer puts out a chair, he knows that chair is going to be used in a room, designed by someone else.

 

i think there would be a serious issue if the first chair was designed using a specific pattern of fabric, created exclusively for that chair and someone else copied that cloth to use in their own chair.

 

Same goes for horses. There are thousands of pictures of horses out there. Unless it is in some pose, such as winning a race, or something readily identifiable, how can you tell where it came from?

 

my favorite example. especially when one can find the original photo.

 

a coin designer can use clip art, royalty free art etc to design their coin. but i don't think they can use someone else's protected art to incorporate into a coin. and let's be really clear, a piece of art is copyrighted when it is created. no special steps are needed to protect that copyright.

 

your roadrunner is a good example of using a variety of legal sources to create your coin. but i have a serious problem with someone cutting and pasting the head off a copyrighted piece of roadrunner art and sticking it on their own work.

 

is this legal? - maybe in the grey area. is it ethical? hmmmm, i don't think so.

 

that includes photographing a giant roadrunner and using that as your RR coin. the art you photographed is protected!

 

there are so many free sources of art out there, why tamper with something that is not free. why paint a copy of a photo and call it your own work and then design a coin around it.

 

the roadrunner looks as if it is the right way to go, a generic roadrunner doing the road running thing. but not the warner bros cartoon copy. that way be dragons with lawyers if they want to get nasty.

 

as to reinventing the wheel. of course artists should be reinventing the wheel, that is why they are called artists/architects and not draftsmen.

 

sure, it is ok to use clip art of a bunch of animals running around in a circle, i can see not reinventing that particular wheel. why draw a little teeny giraffe if there is clip art available.

 

but if you copy a photo of a giraffe in a gaggle of giraffes standing under those funky trees in africa to use in your coin, that is not reinventing the wheel, that is plagiarism.

 

i get letters from high school kids, 2 or 3 times a year, asking for permission to make a painting of this cowboy or that. i tell them no. go have your own life experiences, take your own photographs, paint what you know, don't "copy" my work, my life experiences and skills. develop your own.

 

i usually get a letter from the art teacher demanding why i didn't allow little suzy to paint cowboy ted or cowboy basil. i tell her the same thing. but at least they asked permission. whether or not they refrained from using my work, well, an ethical teacher wouldn't allow it just because the medium was going to be different. she would honour the copyright.

 

reinvent that wheel. if someone can't be original with their design, then skip the coin.

 

gosh, this really has merged the two discussions together.

 

rsg

Edited by RedShoesGirl
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I find myself to agree with RSG for the most part on copyright issues. I don't think I could ever bring myself to use a Warner Brothers image on something that I am doing. But I think it is more for fear of getting in trouble! LOL

 

That being said, after I read RSG's question, I looked at your art, then I googled pictures of a roadrunner. Quite frankly, you could have taken your inspiration from hundreds of them! LOL I think a roadrunner is a roadrunner is a roadrunner. Unless it is in some famous pose, how can you really tell what photo it comes from?

 

Same goes for horses. There are thousands of pictures of horses out there. Unless it is in some pose, such as winning a race, or something readily identifiable, how can you tell where it came from?

 

The opposite is also true. If you hand draw a picture of a horse, I'll bet you will be able to find a photo with a horse in the same pose. You may never have seen it before you drew the horse, but that doesn't change the fact that your drawing might be similar to a photo of a horse that someone has taken.

 

after reading odessy's and joni's i have to say i agree with the most part. the part i have the hardest time with is looking at a photograph, making a painting from that photo, perhaps changing the background a little, but the essential areas are the same, almost exactly the same. where any unbiased person, like a judge, could look at the photo and at the painting and see the blatant similarities.

 

if someone could direct me to which part of the copyright law it says what percentage of the original must be changed in order to make it ok, i would appreciate it.

 

the analogy to an interieor decorator is flawed. when a furniture designer puts out a chair, he knows that chair is going to be used in a room, designed by someone else.

 

i think there would be a serious issue if the first chair was designed using a specific pattern of fabric, created exclusively for that chair and someone else copied that cloth to use in their own chair.

 

Same goes for horses. There are thousands of pictures of horses out there. Unless it is in some pose, such as winning a race, or something readily identifiable, how can you tell where it came from?

 

my favorite example. especially when one can find the original photo.

 

a coin designer can use clip art, royalty free art etc to design their coin. but i don't think they can use someone else's protected art to incorporate into a coin. and let's be really clear, a piece of art is copyrighted when it is created. no special steps are needed to protect that copyright.

 

your roadrunner is a good example of using a variety of legal sources to create your coin. but i have a serious problem with someone cutting and pasting the head off a copyrighted piece of roadrunner art and sticking it on their own work.

 

is this legal? - maybe in the grey area. is it ethical? hmmmm, i don't think so.

 

that includes photographing a giant roadrunner and using that as your RR coin. the art you photographed is protected!

 

there are so many free sources of art out there, why tamper with something that is not free. why paint a copy of a photo and call it your own work and then design a coin around it.

 

the roadrunner looks as if it is the right way to go, a generic roadrunner doing the road running thing. but not the warner bros cartoon copy. that way be dragons with lawyers if they want to get nasty.

 

as to reinventing the wheel. of course artists should be reinventing the wheel, that is why they are called artists/architects and not draftsmen.

 

sure, it is ok to use clip art of a bunch of animals running around in a circle, i can see not reinventing that particular wheel. why draw a little teeny giraffe if there is clip art available.

 

but if you copy a photo of a giraffe in a gaggle of giraffes standing under those funky trees in africa to use in your coin, that is not reinventing the wheel, that is plagiarism.

 

i get letters from high school kids, 2 or 3 times a year, asking for permission to make a painting of this cowboy or that. i tell them no. go have your own life experiences, take your own photographs, paint what you know, don't "copy" my work, my life experiences and skills. develop your own.

 

i usually get a letter from the art teacher demanding why i didn't allow little suzy to paint cowboy ted or cowboy basil. i tell her the same thing. but at least they asked permission. whether or not they refrained from using my work, well, an ethical teacher wouldn't allow it just because the medium was going to be different. she would honour the copyright.

 

reinvent that wheel. if someone can't be original with their design, then skip the coin.

 

gosh, this really has merged the two discussions together.

 

rsg

 

I am agreeing with you. Copyrights protect artists. I know you are a photographer, and your work should be protected. You worked hard to create it.

 

My point is that there is a difference between a copyright photo and and item. If you photograph a baseball, that doesn't mean that I can't draw a baseball. Odds are that my drawing will resemble your photo, because it is a baseball.

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...I am agreeing with you. Copyrights protect artists. I know you are a photographer, and your work should be protected. You worked hard to create it.

 

My point is that there is a difference between a copyright photo and and item. If you photograph a baseball, that doesn't mean that I can't draw a baseball. Odds are that my drawing will resemble your photo, because it is a baseball.

 

gotcha. but you better stay away from my daffodils. :rolleyes:

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as to reinventing the wheel. of course artists should be reinventing the wheel, that is why they are called artists/architects and not draftsmen.

new car designers in detroit are going to hate you! :rolleyes: okay guys, the round wheel needs some tweaking, its already been done...oval?!...nah, the egg did it...square?!...nah, we would have to get permission from sponge bob, he owns everything square...isosceles triangle?!...hmmm, now your talking bill, keep working on that and get back to me! this may revolutionize the way we travel in the 21st century! :P

 

now the real question is: did andy worhol have permission from campbells soup to create "pop art"?! :ph34r:

 

from the ever so trusted "wikipedia":

 

"Warhol's painting of a can of Campbell's soup cost $1,500 while each autographed can sold for $6. The exhibit was one of the first mass events that directly confronted the general public with both pop art and the perennial question of what art is (or of what is art and what is not)."

 

Warhol-Campbell_Soup-1-screenprint-1968.jpg

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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...I am agreeing with you. Copyrights protect artists. I know you are a photographer, and your work should be protected. You worked hard to create it.

 

My point is that there is a difference between a copyright photo and and item. If you photograph a baseball, that doesn't mean that I can't draw a baseball. Odds are that my drawing will resemble your photo, because it is a baseball.

 

gotcha. but you better stay away from my daffodils. :rolleyes:

 

Your photos are beautiful!

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now the real question is: did andy worhol have permission from campbells soup to create "pop art"?! :ph34r:

 

from the ever so trusted "wikipedia":

 

"Warhol's painting of a can of Campbell's soup cost $1,500 while each autographed can sold for $6. The exhibit was one of the first mass events that directly confronted the general public with both pop art and the perennial question of what art is (or of what is art and what is not)."

 

Warhol-Campbell_Soup-1-screenprint-1968.jpg

i can hear the gears grinding now...hmmmm...what about a series of geocoins depicting andy worhols pop art depiction of americana...YES! it's such a ripoff...IT'S INGENIOUS! have the simpsons done it, yet?! no?! what about south park?! :rolleyes:

 

okay then, anyone want to reserve their campbell's soup shiny nickel artist edition right now?! :P by the way, just so there's no issues, the soup label was changed from "tomato" to "chicken with rice."

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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now the real question is: did andy worhol have permission from campbells soup to create "pop art"?! :ph34r:

 

from the ever so trusted "wikipedia":

 

"Warhol's painting of a can of Campbell's soup cost $1,500 while each autographed can sold for $6. The exhibit was one of the first mass events that directly confronted the general public with both pop art and the perennial question of what art is (or of what is art and what is not)."

 

Warhol-Campbell_Soup-1-screenprint-1968.jpg

i can hear the gears grinding now...hmmmm...what about a series of geocoins depicting andy worhols pop art depiction of americana...YES! it's such a ripoff...IT'S INGENIOUS! have the simpsons done it, yet?! no?! what about south park?! :rolleyes:

 

okay then, anyone want to reserve their campbell's soup shiny nickel artist edition right now?! :P by the way, just so there's no issues, the soup label was changed from "tomato" to "chicken with rice."

 

whether or not warhol had permission is moot, we don't know. whether it was allowed or not because it was an original work of art, i don't know that either. do we know the law at the time? so are prints of this painting protected - grandfathered in - pretty sure that's a yes.

 

i do know that i needed a picture of a bottle of corn oil for a biology textbook, many moons ago. no label was allowed — this is before PS. so i had to black out the label by hand so as to render a generic bottle of oil that looked like all the other generic bottles of oil on the shelf.

 

you are going to extremes to try and make a point - the point being it is ok to rip off other works for the sake of a geocoin. no, you can't rip off warhol, his work is protected by license. no, you can't rip off the simpsons, same reason. someone may do it, but it is not legal nor is it ethical. just as i cannot go to an outdoor sculpture museum, photograph the pieces and put them on a geocoin.

 

wheels on a car are not part of a protected aesthetic design. chevy's camaro, however is. ford probably sold his patent WAY back when to include wheels, like wagon wheels only better. like the stone wheel, only better.

 

i just don't get the concept of copying, making a few changes and saying it is ok for a geocoin. boggles my mind.

 

joni's point about generic things like a baseball is well-taken. i photograph a baseball and someone's drawing of a baseball is going to look like the photo 'cause a baseball is a baseball.

 

but let me photograph that baseball in a unique setting, up the mountains somewhere with roses all around and it has a face drawn on it and antelope horns. now it is no longer a baseball and that "art" cannot be copied, 'cause it ain't just a baseball any longer.

 

a shot of a horse winning a race is not a generic shot of a horse. it is a unique image created by someone and owned by that someone.

 

it is really a simple concept. i am not sure why you are protesting so loudly or are so defensive.

 

we had this conversation a long time ago on the forum and it really upset me the blithe way people treated other works of art as the basis for a geocoin. as if it was ok because no one was going to get caught anyway, after all it is just a geocoin. and there are SO many examples of geocoins that are copies of this or that.

 

i am arguing for the principle of protected art, including warhol's. you seem to be arguing the other side.

 

there is art in the public domain, but i would really want to make sure i knew what the status of a piece was before i started copying it.

 

BTW just because something is on the internet does not mean it is in the public domain. as i said before, and as you have pointed out, there are plenty of free sources for art if someone cannot draw something himself, wiki is one of them.

 

it really is a personal paradigm, how we look at the world.

 

rsg

Edited by RedShoesGirl
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you know, after posting the andy worhol painting, i was curious as to how he got around the issue of using the copyright and tradmark of a commercial product. as we all know, copyright laws will vary from state to state and country to country, so this obviously adds to everyones confusion. anyway, from unverified information i read online, when worhol created the painting of the can of campbell's soup, the soup company didn't really care about the artist or his subject matter, and felt it was rather amusing and an honor to be considered an american icon. since the artist was NOT IN DIRECT COMPETITION with the soup company, they didn't sue in the court of law. however, AFTER the artist passed away, the company had an issue with the campbell's soup image being used to sell the artists works, and so the soup company AND the andy worhol foundation, actually AGREED to share copyright licenses and neither entity can now make a deal without the others permission.

 

hmmm...it seems compromises CAN be reached after all!

 

online source:

 

From The Straight Dope Online

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...you are going to extremes to try and make a point - the point being it is ok to rip off other works for the sake of a geocoin. no, you can't rip off warhol, his work is protected by license. no, you can't rip off the simpsons, same reason....

 

i just don't get the concept of copying, making a few changes and saying it is ok for a geocoin. boggles my mind.

 

it is really a simple concept. i am not sure why you are protesting so loudly or are so defensive.

 

i am arguing for the principle of protected art, including warhol's. you seem to be arguing the other side.

 

BTW just because something is on the internet does not mean it is in the public domain. as i said before, and as you have pointed out, there are plenty of free sources for art if someone cannot draw something himself, wiki is one of them.

wow! you sure do get "hot under the collar" pretty quick!

 

first of all...all my comments after you posted yours were to be taken "tongue in cheek" and not to be taken quite so seriously. c'mon people...do i have to explain this?! really?!

 

secondly...the image i posted of worhols painting is available under "fair use" media. which means: "1. It is a historically significant painting. 2. The image is only being used for informational purposes. 3.Its inclusion in the article adds significantly to the article because it shows the subject of this article and how the image depicted is familiar to the general public. 4.The image is readily available on the internet. 5.It is a low resolution image. 6.It is not believed that this use will cause commercial harm to the copyright holder."

 

thirdly...i was very much joking when i said a worhol series of geocoins depicting worhol depicting americana should be made. again...just sarcasm...that i have to explain this is beyond comprehension...lol...i guess my sense of humor doesn't come across very well!

 

and finally...i am not arguing...not at all...not for you and certainly not against you. frankly, i have no argument at all. not with anyone on this forum. i can understand your point of view. i have expressed my own. i don't feel my opinion conflicts with yours, but you may not agree. oh well, thats your right. then lets agree to disagree. :rolleyes: no need for any drama. i was only being sarcastic. my comments were not directed at you or anyone else on this forum. if my comments offended you, then i offer my apology. i'm very sorry.

 

edit to add:

 

link to "fair use" wikipedia information (may or may not be accurate):

 

Fair Use Wiki

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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actually i wasn't hot under the collar - not this time around. yes, sometimes sarcasm is lost on me. i understand the definition and history well, so try not to use it and don't always recognize it in others.

 

sar·casm (sär'kāz'əm)

n.

A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.

 

A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

 

but like i said, that is just me.

 

good luck on your roadrunner. seriously.

 

rsg

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well, in this case the sarcasm was also aimed at myself! thanks for the well wishes. :rolleyes:

 

sar·casm   /ˈsɑrkæzəm/ Show Spelled[sahr-kaz-uhm] Show IPA

–noun

1. harsh irony.

 

edit to add: after reading your comments again a second and third time, i realize that i may have been "reading into it" more than was really there. i can also see how my replies might have been viewed as "defensive". i will try not to use sarcasm online as it doesn't "translate" very well into written form. again...sorry if i offended anyone...it was not done intentionally. peace.

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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just one more thing...for the record...anyone taking a direct copy of something and calling it their own created original, is wrong. plain and simple. give credit where credit is due. this comment is not aimed at anyone but it is aimed at everyone including myself.

 

the only point i was trying to make, is that we are ALL inspired by something or someone else. there are very very few completely original ideas. in fact, the very word "inspiration", has roots in an old belief that A Supreme Being "breathed life into" or "inspired" the very first human. whether you believe in a Supreme Architect or not (i'm not promoting religion here either)...we all must give credit to those who came before us in some way, shape, or form.

 

oh man, i'm digging a deeper hole for myself here, aren't i?! :rolleyes:

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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just one more thing...for the record...anyone taking a direct copy of something and calling it their own created original, is wrong. plain and simple. give credit where credit is due....

 

oh man, i'm digging a deeper hole for myself here, aren't i?! :rolleyes:

 

pretty much. you cannot make a copy of something, , change it a bit, use it in your own art and get away with it by giving credit where credit is due. it is copyright infringement and plagiarism.

 

you must have written permission to use someone else's work.

 

and the bit about inspiration is pretty much BS. if some paints a landscape from someone else's photo, that is plagiarism. get inspired by a landscape of your own.

 

gosh, why is this so hard to understand. giving credit does not ameliorate the crime.

 

and i was going to shut up. but sometimes, one has to speak up - again, if the message is not getting through.

 

inspiration works like this. you see a flower, you are inspired to paint it, photograph it, make a sculpture. you do so.

 

you see a photo of a flower, you are inspired. you go out and shoot your own photo of the flower, paint it, make a sculpture, whatever. OR you write the photographer, tell them you are inspired by their photo, and you ask may you paint it, sculpt it, carve a piece of wood of it.

 

if the photographer says "sure," you are ok, go for it. if the photographer says no, you can't use it no matter if you give credit or not.

 

the right of derivative art belongs to the copyright holder. simple. clear.

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i must say that i thought long and hard about everything discussed on this thread today, and indeed about all the controversy at the forum lately. i was concerned i might be violating someones artistic rights. i felt rather frustrated, and i thought about scrapping this whole project, even though i have worked many long hours on it. what to do?!

 

i decided to do the right thing, and track down whoever took the pictures i used in developing my design (even though the picture and the artwork aren't very similar anymore). i would decide whether to proceed or not with the project based on the replies i received. although 2 of the images have no identifiable owner, 1 of the images had a way of contacting the owner! so i emailed the photographer. here is what i wrote:

 

"hello Rhonda, my name is dave, i live in new mexico. the reason i am contacting you is that i recently saw one of your photographs online. your photograph is one of several that has inspired me to design and create a new roadrunner geocoin. i downloaded the image to my computer and i have used a few elements of this photograph and incorporated them into a coin design (see an attached draft file). i now know that this download and use was inappropriate. i am rather inexperienced as to copyright legal issues, but the geocoin forum members have advised me that i should ask all the owners of professional images i have used, for permission first, before producing a geocoin. even though the finished product looks very little like your beautiful photograph, i feel the only ethical thing is to ask before having it produced. if nothing else but for my own piece of mind.

 

a geocoin production is the only thing i would use the image for. nothing else. very few of these coins would be produced (perhaps 200 or less). they would be sold as collectibles, for a very small profit, and nothing else. my resources are very limited, and i cannot pay you in cash, but perhaps i could repay you with one or more of the finished geocoins? i know it is not much, but i think these geocoins will be very nice, and they may indeed be worth more as time passes. anyway, this permission is the purpose of my email. i anxiously await your reply. thank you.

 

~dave~"

 

and here was her reply:

 

"Dave,

 

I like what you did with my image making it into a geocoin, and yes I grant you permission to use this image for solely the purpose of making geocoins- and Dave I would be delighted to have a finished geocoin of the image as payment for its use!

 

Rhonda

 

The address you can use to mail me is:

 

Rhonda XXXXX

XXXX North Freeway

Tucson, AZ 85705

 

Dave, Good luck, and God bless!"

 

so, i was relieved to be granted permission. she will get a geocoin or more of her choosing, and i get permission to use the image, and an autographed glossy copy of the original photograph signed by the artist herself! i can sleep with a clear conscience tonight. now if the factory can only get the colors right! :rolleyes:

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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Geez, it's a geocoin, not a world famous painting. Lol, :laughing:

yes, but we must respect all intellectual property rights. i would appreciate the same respect if someone wanted to use something i made or created for their own commercial use.

 

thank you and a great letter you wrote. i think that is just so cool! makes me feel all warm and fuzzy and i am not being sarcastic. :drama:

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thank you and a great letter you wrote. i think that is just so cool! makes me feel all warm and fuzzy and i am not being sarcastic. :drama:

thanks for enlightening me, and the forum. sometimes we all do things with good intentions not realizing we may be stepping on someone else's toes. seeing things from their point of view (in this case, the photographers lens!) certainly gave me a new perspective. i will certainly be more aware of this in the future. (no sarcasm here either) :laughing:

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well, after working with DirectMint for over a month, we are about ready to submit some approved artwork to the factory for production.

 

first of all, i was undecided about what the official name for this geocoin should be. i was afraid that the Navajo word "Naatsédlózii" would be too hard to pronounce or to remember, but i really liked it, so i have compromised, and left the Native American word for roadrunner on the front of the geocoin, but the official name will be "Cache Me If You Can Geocoin". For submitting this name suggestion, i will give forum member "tommytrojan360" his choice of any edition! congrats to tommytrojan360! thank you all for your replies, name suggestions, and interest!

 

below is the front and reverse sides of the geocoin! the rose colored areas are the only locations that will take translucent colors. THE COLOR IN THE DRAFT BELOW IS NOT ONE OF THE EDITION COLORS (it is simply to illustrate where the colors will be applied). the reverse side features over 90 small Native American rock drawing symbols or petroglyphs. some of these symbols were hand drawn and edited, some were free clip art, some were a form of free letter fonts. all these symbols are half-height and will appear to float under the translucent colors! the background also has sandblasted texture for added depth. the base area on the front will also receive translucent color over some half-height letters and a weave pattern background texture for added variation and sunlight reflection. the roadrunner bird area itself will not receive any color but will be only a light and dark contrast of metal and antique finish, or dark nickel and bright nickel.

 

i want to have 3 editions produced in the first run of these geocoins. i don't know at this point if any re-mints will be made in the future. the editions i have decided to produce will be: the "Navajo" (regular edition) with antique silver and light blue translucent. the "Hopi" (regular edition) with antique gold and light aqua green translucent. the "Apache" (artist edition) with two-tone black nickel and raised polished nickel (no translucent color). as mentioned before, the Native American Tribes of this region, whom the editions are named after, considered the roadrunner to be a sign of good fortune and that it had powers to ward off evil spirits. this fearless and feisty feathered creature is also the official New Mexico State Bird. i hope you all will reserve your own lucky charm, and collect a little piece of New Mexico, the "Land of Enchantment", and home of some Southwestern Native American Rock Petroglyphs.

 

i will now be accepting reservations for both REGULAR EDITIONS (Navajo and Hopi only). the price for these will be $11.00 each with FREE shipping for U.S. residents and $13.00 each with FREE shipping for International residents. reservations are limited to 4 geocoins per order. i am also offering WHOLESALE PRICES (only for U.S. and Canada geocoin store owners who reserve 12 or more REGULAR EDITION ONLY geocoins) with a NON-REFUNDABLE $25 DEPOSIT FEE, this fee will go toward the final purchase price, with a shipping cost of $5.00 priority small flat rate box (up to 20 geocoins). i will give store owners a total quote when they contact me. FOR ALL RESERVATIONS PLEASE CONTACT ME THROUGH MY PROFILE EMAIL ONLY! DO NOT PM ME HERE OR YOUR MESSAGE MAY NOT BE DELIVERED TO ME. if you make a reservation, you should receive a confirmation email from me. post a reply here if YOU DO NOT RECEIVE a confirmation email within a day or two. please be patient as this is the 1st time i have done reservations so it might take me some time to get organized. when the geocoins arrive, i will notify you by email to pay me through my paypal account, you are NOT obligated to purchase anything at all right now, but remember, if you do not reserve a geocoin, or if you do not reply to the invoice email within 48 hours, you may lose your reservation or your deposit. so if you don't like to read email or answer your email, please DO NOT make a reservation. this saves us both some time and effort!

 

i hope you all like the way this design looks so far. i will accept reservations until Memorial Day! 5 DAYS ONLY! so don't miss out on this opportunity to reserve your own edition now, and guarantee that you get yours! thank you all for supporting new geocoin projects in these difficult economic times!

 

60701199-8350-4493-8ede-20d8629ecaf9.jpg

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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reservations are coming along quite smoothly so far. thanks to everyone that has reserved their editions. i hope these geocoins arrive sooner rather than later. i could not afford to have samples made, so i will be as surprised as you guys are when they arrive! :blink: the reservation period has been extended through Memorial Day Monday, since everything is closed for the holiday anyway. so, get your reservation in soon, if you haven't already made it.

 

by the way...in case anyone here is not familiar with the minting process...once the final approved artwork is submitted to the factory (which will be next week right after the reservations are closed), it can take anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks for the geocoins to be made and delivered from the factory in china. i know this is a long time, but such is life. i optomistically expect these geocoins to arrive by the end of june or beginning of july, and only if there are no delays or holidays in china! i will update this thread as i receive updates on the progress from DirectMint. as the anticipation builds...i appreciate your patience. cheers!

Edited by Odyssey Voyager
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the reservation period is now closed. i have given the "green light" for this production to begin. i am waiting for a reply from DirectMint now. the official production numbers will be:

 

~ "Cache Me If You Can" Roadrunner Navajo Edition ~ 50 geocoins

~ "Cache Me If You Can" Roadrunner Hopi Edition ~ 50 geocoins

~ "Cache Me If You Can" Roadrunner Apache Edition ~ 50 geocoins

 

these editions WILL NOT be re-minted. if there are more editions made in the future, they will all be different colors and plating combinations. congratulations if you reserved one or more of these geocoins! stay tuned for more updates as they come in.

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