Is a puzzle cache the answer?

[+Crafty Turtle]

I discovered a brilliant spot for a cache, and have custom-built a cache box to fit. Before I managed to create a cache page, someone published a cache a mere 100 yards away.

 

So, can I do a puzzle cache, with initial coords at a reasonable distance away (250 yards in the other direction), and a math/geometry problem to get the real coordinates?

 

My published coords would be in a public space with parking available, and the real cache would be in a spot 100 yards from the recently published one.

 

Is this a valid use of puzzle caches? Is this the best way around my dilemma?

[+Taoiseach]

Using a different type of cache is not a way to skirt the guidelines

[+narcissa]

The ONLY way around your dilemma is to find a new spot. No matter what cache type it is, no physical cache containers or tags can be placed within 0.1 miles of another cache container or tag.

 

If you try to lie about the actual location of your cache, you will be found out quickly enough. This will make you look bad within your community, and it will destroy your credibility with local reviewers.

[+NeecesandNephews]

I discovered a brilliant spot for a cache, and have custom-built a cache box to fit. Before I managed to create a cache page, someone published a cache a mere 100 yards away.

 

So, can I do a puzzle cache, with initial coords at a reasonable distance away (250 yards in the other direction), and a math/geometry problem to get the real coordinates?

 

My published coords would be in a public space with parking available, and the real cache would be in a spot 100 yards from the recently published one.

 

Is this a valid use of puzzle caches? Is this the best way around my dilemma?

 

If you read the Cache listing Guidelines pertaining to puzzles you will find that you are allowed to post "visible" coordinates of any location within the 1-2 mile limit of your cache. You will, however, have to submit the "actual" location of your cache to the Reviewer to be able to list it. If the Reviewer finds your actual coordinates to violate the minimum seperation (528ft) from any other cache it will not be published unless you show very compelling reasons why an exception should be granted.

 

If you scroll down the listing Guidelines, to the "Cache Saturation" section you will see, within stages of a multi or puzzle, there is no minimum distance requirement between physical stages of the same listing. In other words... if you have four physical stages of a puzzle, there is no minimum distance required between each of the four. This does not mean no minimum between any stage and any other cache that is not part of the puzzle.

 

Sorry. And on a personal observation... I don't think trying to figure out how to skirt the Guidelines is a very good way to start playing, do you? Don't take that as a snotty remark, please! I know how you feel. There is a fantastic location in a State Park near me where a natural spring gushes from the side of the hill. There are two disabled caches, one at the first spring location, one at the location of a second spring about 650 ft away. The owner has done nothing but block other cachers from utilizing the excellent location. It sucks but a NA is all I can do about it.

 

edit-typo and additional comment

Edited April 8, 2010 by NeecesandNephews

[+dfx]

with a puzzle cache, you still have to specify the real location of the actual cache as a hidden waypoint. this waypoint is what will be used to check the distance to other caches. so, turning it into a puzzle cache won't help you at all. cache containers simply cannot be closer than .1 miles apart, no matter what the cache type is.

 

edit: dadgum, too late

Edited April 8, 2010 by dfx

[+cx1]

Best bet is to explain your situation to the new cache owner that beat you to the area. Maybe they would let you adopt their cache and you could make it part of a multi with your container and location as the final. Or maybe they could archive theirs to free up the area for yours.

Now don't expect them to agree to any of this, some people are very weird when it comes to accommodating requests from others but it couldn't hurt to try.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

The ONLY way around your dilemma is to find a new spot.

That's not entirely true, one can try working with the owner of the newly published cache if each of them have the skills to deal with each other. What is described in the OP is the opposite of how a Puzzle/Mystery works.

 

The fake location can be closer to an existing Cache, but the final(or any containers along the lway) must meet the .1 mile rule.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

No matter what cache type it is, no physical cache containers or tags can be placed within 0.1 miles of another cache container or tag.

 

That's so oversimplified as to make it untrue. That is the basics of the rule, but one can have their own stages as close together as they like. You may not be within that distance of any published locations of ANOTHER Cache, or within that distance of any physical stages of ANOTHER published Cache.

 

Stages within one Cache listing can be as close to each other as the owner wants.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

... I don't think trying to figure out how to skirt the Guidelines is a very good way to start playing, do you?

I didn't see that intent in the OP, just that maybe they had the idea of Puzzle proximity reversed. Just a simple misunderstanding, and good reason to ask.

[+power69]

I discovered a brilliant spot for a cache, and have custom-built a cache box to fit. Before I managed to create a cache page, someone published a cache a mere 100 yards away.

 

So, can I do a puzzle cache, with initial coords at a reasonable distance away (250 yards in the other direction), and a math/geometry problem to get the real coordinates?

 

My published coords would be in a public space with parking available, and the real cache would be in a spot 100 yards from the recently published one.

 

Is this a valid use of puzzle caches? Is this the best way around my dilemma?

get the owner of the other cache to move his. lying to your reviewer isn't a good thing to get caught doing.

[+kunarion]

Is this the best way around my dilemma?

Go ahead and hide it there. It’s “unofficial”, and won’t count as a find on GC.com, but maybe it will be good for practice. I have a cache that can’t be listed, which I’ve used as a drop box for other cachers. It has never been muggled.

 

In theory, you could have your cache as a kind of unofficial “Bonus”, using coordinates you’ve hidden in other caches you’ve placed. If this Bonus Cache then held coordinates to an official Mystery Cache, people would have to find it to get to the Mystery Cache. The Mystery Cache's page would be a complete mystery to most people.

 

You still should respect some cache separation, since it will get confusing if people find the wrong one. Due to its weirdness, it may not be found very often. Come to think of it, I wouldn’t even try it. Never mind.

[+Taoiseach]

Is this the best way around my dilemma?

Go ahead and hide it there. It’s “unofficial”, and won’t count as a find on GC.com, but maybe it will be good for practice. I have a cache that can’t be listed, which I’ve used as a drop box for other cachers. It has never been muggled.

 

In theory, you could have your cache as a kind of unofficial “Bonus”, using coordinates you’ve hidden in other caches you’ve placed. If this Bonus Cache then held coordinates to an official Mystery Cache, people would have to find it to get to the Mystery Cache. The Mystery Cache's page would be a complete mystery to most people.

 

You still should respect some cache separation, since it will get confusing if people find the wrong one. Due to its weirdness, it may not be found very often. Come to think of it, I wouldn’t even try it. Never mind.

 

That too is walking a fine line. If you did this, you would have to list the location as a 'stage of a multi,' as it is a physical stage of a cache. The first idea would probably be fine though...

 

For the record, if anyone had the nerve to ask me to move or archive my cache, or tried to get me to adopt it to them in order to do the same, they would meet with a very scathing response...

[+wimseyguy]

I think all of the previous responders have been a bit harsh in their interpretations of the OP's intent. I merely read it as a newer cacher who didn't fully comprehend the saturation guideline, and thought if the posted coords were outside the 528' radius then they could get their published.

 

Here is a link to the relevant saturation guideline. The key phrase is "Cache containers and physical stages should generally be separated by a minimum of 0.1 miles (528 feet or 161 m). A physical stage is defined as any stage that contains a physical element placed by the geocache owner, such as a tag with the next set of coordinates or a container."

 

So no, your proposed concept will not work.

But you might be able to persuade the owner of that other cache to make room for you, or not.

And if not, it's quite likely that there is another perfect location for this container. You just haven't found it yet.

But when you do, create the listing immediately and submit it with a reviewer note that states that this is a work in progress, it isn't ready to be published, but I wanted to save the space.

That will buy you a little time to perfect the hide. Good luck.

Edited April 9, 2010 by wimseyguy

[+joukkusisu]

If you think the spot is must for hiding a cache and your container that you've made wouldn't work elsewhere, you can always list your cache on another site. On the other sites, I bet your location is virgin territory with no saturation.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Best bet is to explain your situation to the new cache owner that beat you to the area. Maybe they would let you adopt their cache and you could make it part of a multi with your container and location as the final. Or maybe they could archive theirs to free up the area for yours.

Now don't expect them to agree to any of this, some people are very weird when it comes to accommodating requests from others but it couldn't hurt to try.

This could also be done as a team effort with your new friend. They will bve listed as the owner, but their Cache can direct people to yours as the final.

[GermanSailor]

Is this a valid use of puzzle caches? Is this the best way around my dilemma?

No, it's not. You have to state the coordinates of the final anyways. If you are honest, it usually won't get published.

 

Talk to one of the reviewers for your area and try to come to a legal solution for your problem. Cheating is not an option!

 

GermanSailor

[+uxorious]

I discovered a brilliant spot for a cache, and have custom-built a cache box to fit. Before I managed to create a cache page, someone published a cache a mere 100 yards away.

 

 

If the cache is really 100 yards away, there should be no problem. That would be 600 feet, plenty of room.

 

As for asking the person who hid one to move and make room for yours. It would kind of depend why you felt yours would be somehow better than mine before I would consider moving one of mine. I would certainly be willing to talk about it if someone were to ask about one of mine, but there would have to be some reason you needed that spot.

 

After all if I hid a cache there, I also would have liked the spot.

[+briansnat]

I discovered a brilliant spot for a cache, and have custom-built a cache box to fit. Before I managed to create a cache page, someone published a cache a mere 100 yards away.

 

 

If the cache is really 100 yards away, there should be no problem. That would be 600 feet, plenty of room.

 

As for asking the person who hid one to move and make room for yours. It would kind of depend why you felt yours would be somehow better than mine before I would consider moving one of mine. I would certainly be willing to talk about it if someone were to ask about one of mine, but there would have to be some reason you needed that spot.

 

After all if I hid a cache there, I also would have liked the spot.

 

100 yards would be 300 feet

[+briansnat]

I discovered a brilliant spot for a cache, and have custom-built a cache box to fit. Before I managed to create a cache page, someone published a cache a mere 100 yards away.

 

So, can I do a puzzle cache, with initial coords at a reasonable distance away (250 yards in the other direction), and a math/geometry problem to get the real coordinates?

 

My published coords would be in a public space with parking available, and the real cache would be in a spot 100 yards from the recently published one.

 

Is this a valid use of puzzle caches? Is this the best way around my dilemma?

 

As others mentioned your idea wouldn't work. There is a way to do it using a multi cache, provided that there is something at your proposed cache location (that you did not place there) which can provide a clue the the coordinates of the cache hidden outside the .1 mile limit.

 

For example if at your proposed cache site there is a sign, fence, building, boulders, anything that can be counted you can use information obtained at that location to direct searchers to the actual cache.

 

If course this won't resolve your custom built container dilemma, but if you think the site is a worthy place to bring people to (and why else would you place a cache there?) then you can use this method to get around the .1 mile rule because virtual stages of multis and puzzles do not count against the .1 mile limit.

 

Here are a few examples: DPM, Rock Structures and Berkley Heights

Edited April 10, 2010 by briansnat

[+uxorious]

100 yards would be 300 feet

 

Oops, of course you're right. That's what happens when I get up at 3:00 AM, take the pain meds for my recent knee surgery, then try to post on the forum.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

100 yards would be 300 feet

 

Oops, of course you're right. That's what happens when I get up at 3:00 AM, take the pain meds for my recent knee surgery, then try to post on the forum.

I hope you didn't count the pain meds using the same math...

[+Pink Paisley]

The ONLY way around your dilemma is to find a new spot. No matter what cache type it is, no physical cache containers or tags can be placed within 0.1 miles of another cache container or tag.

 

If you try to lie about the actual location of your cache, you will be found out quickly enough. This will make you look bad within your community, and it will destroy your credibility with local reviewers.

 

Apparently you CAN place a cache within 0.1 miles of another. GC23VTK and GC23VTG for instance.

[+Pink Paisley]

The ONLY way around your dilemma is to find a new spot. No matter what cache type it is, no physical cache containers or tags can be placed within 0.1 miles of another cache container or tag.

 

If you try to lie about the actual location of your cache, you will be found out quickly enough. This will make you look bad within your community, and it will destroy your credibility with local reviewers.

 

Apparently you CAN place a cache within 0.1 miles of another. GC23VTK and GC23VTG for instance.

 

And the answer is that you can't get directly from cache to cache because there are significant barriers between the caches, necessitating a roundabout route from cache to cache.

[+narcissa]

The ONLY way around your dilemma is to find a new spot. No matter what cache type it is, no physical cache containers or tags can be placed within 0.1 miles of another cache container or tag.

 

If you try to lie about the actual location of your cache, you will be found out quickly enough. This will make you look bad within your community, and it will destroy your credibility with local reviewers.

 

Apparently you CAN place a cache within 0.1 miles of another. GC23VTK and GC23VTG for instance.

 

If there are substantial barriers between the two hiding spots (i.e. moats and walls), it might be possible to convince a reviewer to disregard the proximity guidelines.

 

Remember the guidelines:

 

First and foremost please be advised there is no precedent for placing caches. This means that the past listing of a similar cache in and of itself is not a valid justification for the listing of a new cache.

 

Exceptions to the proximity guideline don't invalidate the proximity guideline. "But this is a nice spot for a cache" is unlikely to persuade a reviewer to grant an exception.