Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
RACooper

Geocaching ID card

Recommended Posts

After being questioned a few weeks ago while looking for a mark, I had an idea. I came up with a Geocaching.com "ID badge" that could be laminated with a person's name on it.

 

An example PDF is located here.

 

Would this:

a) pass muster with the Groundspeak admins?

;) be useful for anyone else hunting benchmarks?

 

I am also working on a short (1/2 or 1/4 page) description of survey markers that can be handed to anyone who inquires about what I'm doing. Figured this could be helpful when talking to property owners or the county sheriff, if necessary....

 

Let me know! If this is a legit possibility, I can set up to make them, laminate and mail out for a couple of bucks each (just to cover costs, of course!). I have access to a laminator at work, but I'd have to buy the pouches, clips and cards.

Share this post


Link to post

Um...if you wrote up a great explanation of geocaching/benchmarking on them instead of making them like those press cards they show on TV in hatbands you might have something.

 

As for an ID I'm not sure it would do much good for a police officer pulling your butt out of the bushes for making funny wiggly motions as you search for the benchmark/cache.

 

I think using the volunteer angle you did, is the best method of gaining credability for benchmarking. I'm not so sure about caching.

Share this post


Link to post

I like your idea. I have given my business card to concerened property owners and shown them the data sheet to help make them believe I am not crazey. Most people are helpful after they know what your up to.

Share this post


Link to post

A lot of benchmarkers already carry fairly good id's, such as those of sheriffs or govt. surveyors. It was also suggested that you carry your paperwork on professional-style clipboards, and don an orange vest.

None of these would help me though, given my thick enemy-furriner accent, Houssein-esque moustache, and generally worn-to-shreds gear. So I'm going to stick to hunting the BMs (and caches) where the cops don't thread. Yo subversives, head for the mountains icon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post

I like the idea but:

 

The Groundspeak and Geocaching logos are propriety to Groundspeak, and Groundspeak retains all right, title, and interest in and to those logos. You agree that Your use, if any, of the Groundspeak and Geocaching logos will be in accordance with Groundspeak’s logo usage guidelines posted at http://www.geocaching.com/about/logousage.aspx, as the foregoing may be updated from time to time in Groundspeak’s sole discretion, as well as any additional applicable guidelines that Groundspeak may post on the Site.

Share this post


Link to post

My Adobe viewer "couldn't decrypt the document", but apparently others here have been able to.

 

I haven't printed any of my own yet, but currently have a "working draft" pictured below.

 

BM_id.jpg

 

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

Share this post


Link to post

gnbrotz:

The document was created with Acrobat 5, and I probably used some Acro5-specific functions to protect the document (it can't be printed, the watermark is visible, the name field is locked). If you are using an older version of Acrobat reader, I can only suggest that you upgrade. Acrobat Reader 6 came out a few months ago.

 

Tennessee Geocacher:

I read through the terms of use for the logos. My interpretation is that I can use the logo non-commercially on merchandise, which is my intent. I certainly plan to pass this idea by TPTB directly (via email) if anyone here thinks the idea is with merit. I'm not looking to make money of Groundspeak, Geocaching or any of the participants here.

 

My bigger concern is not the use of the logos; it's the fact that the card makes it appear that Groundspeak/Geocaching.com endorses the carrier of this ID card. I don't know how Jeremy et al will take that.

Share this post


Link to post

You cannot put someone else's logo on a card with your name etc if you don't have any relationship to that organization.

 

Putting the NGS logo gives the false impression and that could be illegal. An ID card suggests you are sanctioned by the organization on the card when in fact you made up the card making it bogus and making you look all the more suspicious.

 

When I worked for the DOT, I had business cards and a picture ID + a marked vehicle with offical license plates. I was not allowed to use these for personal use, the were the property of the DOT and had to be surrended when I retired. Since 9/11 people take these ID's more seriously and anyone using a fake or bogus ID is bound for trouble if they find themselves questioned about it.

 

Be very careful, all I can see you using is a business card with your name etc but no organization name or logo you are not legally affiliated with.

 

Mike

Survey Tech (Retired)

Share this post


Link to post

I have a small notebook I keep in the car with printed datasheets and several photos of different marks. That way if I can't find the mark to show them that I really am benchmark hunting I at least have some back-up evidence. For some reason a few pages of small discs, water towers and other boring things adds credibility that you are odd but honest.

 

Otherwise your story can sound a little fishy.

 

Yeah officer, see that radio tower over there, well that's a benchmark, yeah a benchmark, and people use them to make maps, see?

 

Yes, sir. Would you put your hands behind your back?

 

[This message was edited by dgarner on September 20, 2003 at 04:17 AM.]

Share this post


Link to post

I certainly wouldn't use the NGS logo or other agency indicia on any card. It's just a bit too close to impersonating a federal official, and that's a very serious crime.

 

I'm not sure I want to hand strangers a card with my name and contact info. Any law enforcement officers would want to see 'real' ID anyway.

 

I do like the idea of an info sheet to hand out to curious passersby; it could include the geocaching and NGS web sites, as well as a description of what benchmarks are (possibly with illustrations from your area), and what our role is - 'updating the database' is usually how I describe it.

Share this post


Link to post

I think an ID card is a good idea. But along with the card, I think you need to be ready to explain what you're doing when asked. Usually I tell people one of three things:

 

1. "The government sent me to dig up your yard."

 

2. "There's a Radon leak in the immediate vicinity and I'm trying to find it before more people die".

 

3. "I work for the gas company, and what I'm doing could cause a major explosion, so I'd suggest you stay as far back as possible".

 

When that doesn't work, I just show them a picture ID card I had made at the local graphics place.

 

BeachBum22

http://www.benchmarkhunting.com

Just because I can't find it doesn't mean it's not really there.

Share this post


Link to post

Well... here's my take on the card. I don't think it is really necessary. Should you be questioned while searching, just be honest. Explain your interest in both history and surveying. Show those whom might question you the datasheet. The datasheet is much more official than any 'ID Card'. If a mark is on private property, ask the owner for permission. If the mark is on public property, find the mark but don't be destructive or attempt to be elusive if someone, in an official capacity, questions your motives. If I knew nothing of benchmarks and encountered someone looking for them and they gave me a homemade ID card, I would continue to attempt to learn what they were doing.

 

My brother, Readymixer, and I have been questioned by people while benchmarking. The last time it happened, the person who questioned us about our activities was quite content when we showed him our maps and datasheet. I still think that he thought we were crazy, but it was enough to satisfy his curiousity as to whether or not we were 'up to no good'.

 

So.... IMHO, I wouldn't worry about the card. I would avoid private property without permission and if questioned while on public property, just be honest and forthcoming. Having the datasheet on your person will only help to prove that you are doing what you say you are doing. I truly believe that anyone that is honest with any officer and/or anyone else will have no problems, provided they are not trespassing nor being destructive. Cheers!

 

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

Share this post


Link to post

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

The datasheet is much more official than any 'ID Card'.


I can't disagree with any of your advice, but I wonder if you have any thoughts for those of us who use our PDAs to hold the sheets? I'd hate to have to print out each datasheet I'm looking for because I'm not sure if a datasheet for another location is going to help my cause if I'm questioned.

Share this post


Link to post

quote:
Originally posted by GeckoGeek:

I can't disagree with any of your advice, but I wonder if you have any thoughts for those of us who use our PDAs to hold the sheets? I'd hate to have to print out each datasheet I'm looking for because I'm not sure if a datasheet for another location is going to help my cause if I'm questioned.


 

Perhaps having any datasheet as a part of your benchmark tools would be a good idea. You could show that and explain that now you store them electronically because it's more convenient.

 

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

Share this post


Link to post

Well now I have been through it all,and as long as you are honest and have a valid I.D. you will have no problems.

I was in Washington D.C.at the White House on 9/18/2003 at the Mile marker 0 with my GPS on and looking for the 2 Virtuals when I was stopped by the Secret Service when I changed the reading to what the WASS corresction was.I was searched very dilligently all packs were emptied and the extra GPS I had was turned on and Initialized to make sure it was not something else.

This was my chance once again to get Geocaching a good word in.

They ran a search and then asked me all kinds of Questions and and....well I was right on a lot of these things that were only speculated and not known by me for sure,sure but know I know.

Thankyou Again Men and Women of the Secret Service watching our National Monuments and Protection of our Country.I am glad to see that you watch things so closely in these times.

 

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS

*GEOTRYAGAIN*

TAKE PRIDE IN AMERICA

http://www.doi.gov/news/front_current.html

1803-2003

"LOUSIANA PURCHASE"

http://www.lapurchase.org

"LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION"

http://lewisclark.geog.missouri.edu/index

 

Arkansas Missouri Geocachrs Association

http://www.ARK-MOGeocachersAssociatoin@msnusers.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ark-Mo-Geocachers

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps geocaching can adopt the model of Amateur Radio. Ham Radio is a hobby, to be sure, but in times of need provides emergency communications.

 

In this day of Homeland Security, what niche could geocaching fill? Geocachers should have a much better understanding of mapping, orienteering, etc. than the general population. Where can we fit in?

Share this post


Link to post

quote:
Originally posted by Bill-W5WAF:

Geocachers should have a much better understanding of mapping, orienteering, etc. than the general population. Where can we fit in?


icon_smile.gificon_smile.gif my point exactly. In detention.

Share this post


Link to post

quote:
Originally posted by jeff35080:

Well... here's my take on the card. I don't think it is really necessary. Should you be questioned while searching, just be honest. Explain your interest in both history and surveying. Show those whom might question you the datasheet.....


I agree. Have encountered Highway Patrol, County Officers, local police and property owners who questioned my actions which can appear suspicious, especially around water towers and water supplies. But an explanation, data sheet and equipment satisfies their concern.

 

However, it occurred to me that terrorists could also use the data sheets to locate vital points of interest. Perhaps datasheets should not be available to the public?

 

1950 Surveyor

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps datasheets should not be available to the public?

 

Should we also take away maps, etc? All a datasheet does is give information to find a geodetic mark, place by a surveyor. It's not like that we don't already know that the standpipe is there. I do realize what you are trying to convey. If someone wants to commit acts of terrorism, they will do it with, or without, NGS datasheets. Cheers!

 

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

Share this post


Link to post

well I did find out Why the SECRET SERVICE stopped me on 9/18/2003.

All the Documents for the founding of our country were on display in the rotunda.

Sept.17 is Citizenship Day and the Weeek is Constitution week,the Constitution,The declaration of Independence the Bill of Right and all the other documents are there For "WE THE PEOPLE" to See.

I got it through my USA Freedom Corps weekly update.

See: U.S.A. Freedom Corps

I do not know if it helped to be a member,but I sure let the SECRET SERVICE know that I was a volunteer and that I am a Defender of the Nation.

 

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS

*GEOTRYAGAIN*

TAKE PRIDE IN AMERICA

http://www.doi.gov/news/front_current.html

1803-2003

"LOUSIANA PURCHASE"

http://www.lapurchase.org

"LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION"

http://lewisclark.geog.missouri.edu/index

 

Arkansas Missouri Geocachrs Association

http://www.ARK-MOGeocachersAssociatoin@msnusers.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ark-Mo-Geocachers

Share this post


Link to post

I guess I've got it easy when looking for a mark. I've only had someone stop and ask what I was doing a few times. I've just told them I'm a surveyor looking for a survey mark, and that was the end of it.

 

While it's a neat idea, I don't know that a laminated business card sized geocaching/benchmarking card would really serve as a way to validate the benchmark hunting actions of anyone. If you were to be questioned by an authority, would they accept it? jeff35080 could probably best answer that. A printout of the geocache benchmark page or the NGS datasheet most likely would better serve that purpose. The idea of a short page describing what you're doing would also be a good one, and, if memory serves corrctly, that sort of thing was discussed in this forum briefly a few months ago. A printout of the main benchmarking page FAQs might also serve as such a document.

 

Keep on Caching! (and Benchmarking!)

- Kewaneh

Share this post


Link to post

Unfortunately, not all of us are surveyors by trade, and (at least for me) the only ID I have other than my driver's license is the hospital badge I have to carry around the office. I don't think that will make any impression on someone when I knock on their door asking permission to dig in their front yard. I do carry some datasheets and a marked map, but just something to clip on my collar with my name on it can go a long way to establish legitimacy because it gives an air of credability to the search at hand. Actually, the biggest questions I keep getting are "are you expanding the road?" or "what are you going to be building here?", and those are from locals. I've not yet been stopped by law enforcement.

Share this post


Link to post
Originally posted by RACooper:

Actually, the biggest questions I keep getting are "are you expanding the road?" or "what are you going to be building here?", and those are from locals.

While looking for a BM on an unused railroad, a local came up and asked "When are you going to take out the track?"

 

1950 Surveyor

Share this post


Link to post

I was always asked if we were going to widen the road. One day a sheriff patrol stopped as we were working in the middle of US-41 and asked that question. One of my co-workers said "No, we are going to make it longer". The cop gave him a po'd look and took of like a bullet. Although intended as a wise a$$ remark, it was actually true because we were flattening out a sharp curve that would add about 1000 ft to the overall Length of the road.

 

Mike

Survey Tech (Retired)

Share this post


Link to post

I am not a surveyer and the 3 questions that I have had thus far:

quote:
1) Are finally going to look into this water polution?
-- while I searched for a benchmark on a box culvert.

quote:
2) What exactly is that thing?
-- about a steel rod under an access cover.

quote:
3) Will that disk help my surveyer with a property survey he is doing?
-- another benchmark disk on a box culvert.

 

Less than one question per 100 survey marks is not that bad.

 

Everybody loves benchmarks more! icon_smile.gif

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know that a laminated business card sized geocaching/benchmarking card would really serve as a way to validate the benchmark hunting actions of anyone. If you were to be questioned by an authority, would they accept it? jeff35080 could probably best answer that.

 

A couple of my benchmark hunting friends and I would accept the card, I am willing to bet that most officers would not accept such as card as proper identification to be on private property, as well as, some sensitive public property. As I stated earlier, and has been echoed by others, have a copy of the datasheet with you and if you are unsure of the area or property it is probably best to avoid it. No little metal disk is worth going to jail. Cheers!

 

Jeff

http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com

http://www.NotAChance.com

If you hide it, they will come....

Share this post


Link to post

I guess it depends on what kind of (Metal) disc you are refering.

If it were gold and weighed several hundred pounds..............Just joking.Gotta put in a pun in all the seriousness.

Hey I know where some of those are but can't get there without a lot of attention.

 

I am also with Jeff on this one The only I.D. that would work would have to be an authorized type.

And Private property is Private you still have to gain landowners permission in all cases.

Even Law enforcement without probable cause,and Search warrant can not enter private lands without the Landowners permission.

So it just boils down to how tactful you are.

I have only been turned away from one and that is Because it has been moved but can not prove it without going on the property.

The only one here in Missouri that can recover marks on private land is the Certified Land Surveyor.

 

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS

*GEOTRYAGAIN*

TAKE PRIDE IN AMERICA

http://www.doi.gov/news/front_current.html

1803-2003

"LOUSIANA PURCHASE"

http://www.lapurchase.org

"LEWIS AND CLARK EXPADITION"

http://lewisclark.geog.missouri.edu/index

 

Arkansas Missouri Geocachrs Association

http://www.ARK-MOGeocachersAssociatoin@msnusers.com

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ark-Mo-Geocachers

 

[This message was edited by GEO*Trailblazer 1 on October 03, 2003 at 07:37 AM.]

Share this post


Link to post

Well, it appears, in reading through all of the previous posts, that the concensus is that an ID card specifically for BM-hunting isn't going to do a lot of good, and that's probably correct. It can't hurt, but care must be taken not to use that to which one is not entitled. A driver's license or military ID will satisfy the local gendarmerie as to who you are, and a copy of a datasheet should satisfy them as to what you are doing. Keeping the info in a PDA is great, but having a copy of one datasheet is a good idea; it lends a cachet of verisimilitude to your "costume".

 

I've only ever been hassled once while hunting controls, and that was by a woman who was about to sicc her dog on me. Nothing would have molified her, based upon her language icon_eek.gif, so I didn't even try. I've had cops and harbor patrols watch me, and none of them have so much as wandered over to get a closer look. I have a piece of paper in my hand, plus a GPS, plus a digital camera, plus a couple of pencils in my shirt pocket, plus a 100' metal rule, and I generally am looking around at the landscape, then at the page in my hand, then back to the landscape; they either figure I'm a harmless crackpot or I'm doing something official. I get some odd looks on occasion, but never have I been stopped or questioned by any law enforcement. Part of the trick is to look like you know what you are doing, and to do it in something that looks like a professional manner. Have a story, an explanation, ready for the possibility that you might be questioned, and don't be defensive with it. Tell it in a friendly, "Isn't this neat?!" sort of voice, and at the worst, you'll be asked to finish up quickly.

 

So many caches; so few pairs of decent shoes

Share this post


Link to post

hey I like the the reply no we are going to make it longer reat wish I would have thought of that one. i have been out there surveying and had a lot of people ask me questions and the complaints you get on anything about the "government" well now I work in a school so what alot of comments I get

but getting used to people thinking I am crazy so ...

carry on and pretend you are in your right mind

 

 

quote:
Originally posted by elcamino:

I was always asked if we were going to widen the road. One day a sheriff patrol stopped as we were working in the middle of US-41 and asked that question. One of my co-workers said "No, we are going to make it longer". The cop gave him a po'd look and took of like a bullet. Although intended as a wise a$$ remark, it was actually true because we were flattening out a sharp curve that would add about 1000 ft to the overall Length of the road.

 

Mike

Survey Tech (Retired)


 

keep smiling and enjoy the life we have been given

Share this post


Link to post

quote:
Originally posted by MOCKBA:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill-W5WAF:

Geocachers should have a much better understanding of mapping, orienteering, etc. than the general population. Where can we fit in?


icon_smile.gificon_smile.gif my point exactly. In detention.


 

Any MBs in Guantanamo Bay?

Share this post


Link to post

RE: ID Cards

I realize I am just a beginner and not schooled in this sport as yet . But I do have a suggestion . I have printed up a few business cards of my own containing just my Name,Picture,E-Mail address,fax# and Township of Residence that I intend to leave in any caches that I find . These along with a valid drivers license should explain to any police officer or private resident if challenged .

 

georgeg4

Share this post


Link to post

I don't disagree that a card can provide information and if I was making up business cards about BM Hunting or Geocaching I would be handing them out to friends and strangers alike as a recruitment tool. But when it comes to police it's valid id first. Personally I think a printed data sheet is more 'official' proof that information about a water tower, ect, is being disseminated legally to the public via GC.com and NGS. A home-made card is just one more thing to get the police to accept.

Share this post


Link to post

I also agree with everything Jeff stated. People try to pass off all manner of things as "offical identification"....nothing is going to satisfy me other than a driver's license or military i.d.

Just be honest and explain what you're doing. That will work with most law enforcement officers.

 

Snipe33

Share this post


Link to post

One of my first "finds" was a benchmark disk at the base of the city water tower which has an eight foot fence around it. The city had just repainted the tower, structure, and all. You couldn't see the disk without going inside the fence. This water tower is next to the police station and the only way in is through the police. My son and I simply went in (with our trusty GPS and datasheet)and told him what we were doing, that we weren't terrorists, and that we would only be a few minutes. The police chief said to go ahead. We located the disk took a few pictues and went back in to the police station and asked if he would like to see what we were doing. He agreed. When he saw it, he said, "What the h$ll is that thing for?" We explained and the only thing he mumbled was something about people foolishly spending the government's money back then. However, he accepted it and we had no problems.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know about business cards, etc.. Seems to me that the local authorities would mostly be interested in a picture ID such as a driver's license, etc.

 

As far as explaining what I'm doing, I told one guy "I'm a volunteer helping to compile a database of GPS coordinates for old survey markers", and he was satisified, even showed me where the mark was.

 

OhNoMrBill (Bill Hudson, Gilroy CA)

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps a printed page explaining what we are about?

The new counterfeit resistant $20's are already being passed.

Any moron (no offense to anyone reading this, unless the shoe fits)

with a computer and printer, can manufacture any kind of ID they want.

Carry a valid I.D. Have some type of log or printout of what you are looking for.

Have permission before, be open and honest, explain second, run like hell third. icon_wink.gif

 

Look at this from a muggles point of view.

I see someone strange, acting suspiciously.

We are near a bridge, water supply, what are they doing?

Post 9-11; people have a right to be nervous. icon_frown.gif

 

Be open an honest and IMHO there should be no problems, unless you really shouldn’t be there.

 

BTW.

From now on I will carry my wallet with me instead of leaving it in the car.

Thanks for the reminder.

Share this post


Link to post

Guys/gals.... I will once again state that honesty is the best policy. I am probably one of the most laid-back law enforcement officers you will ever have the opportunity to meet. However, if I were to meet someone and asked for ID and they gave me a homemade Benchmark ID Card, I would raise my eyebrows a bit. By that statement, I mean if I didn't have a clue what a benchmark was nor cared to know. Personally, I would love to meet all of you and have met some of you, but if I was an average officer that didn't care about little metal discs, I would think you were either a nut or up to no good. I will once again reiterate, just be honest and take a copy of the benchmark page with you... don't trespass and you'll never have anything to worry about. I search for benchmarks while off-duty (yes I have found all of them within my beat while on-duty) and I always take a copy of the benchmark page and I don't trespass. If I were approached by an officer of the law, I would be in the same position as most of you and would simply let the officer know what I am doing and who I am and offer him my state issued ID (drivers license). I would not have an attitude, nor would I question his/her authority nor would I attempt to influence them with my authority as a fellow officer. Anyways, be cool, be safe and be honest. Cheers!

 

Jeff

http://www.AlaCache.com

Share this post


Link to post

Barefoot wrote:"Look at this from a muggles point of view.

I see someone strange, acting suspiciously.

We are near a bridge, water supply, what are they doing?

Post 9-11; people have a right to be nervous"

 

I think it was in late 2001 or early 2002 someone placed a Geocache (in an ammo box) near a railroad tunnel in Siskiyou Co. CA the Sheriff's Dept. blew it up, dolls and trinkets rained down along with the sheet explaining what it was! Don't know if the bomb guys logged the find.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, it seems the consensus here is that a "Benchmark Volunteer" card is pretty much a novelty more than something useful, so I will not persue this any further...Jeff, Snipe, et al...thanks for the POV from the law enforcement standpoint. I certainly wouldn't assume that a Geocaching ID card would replace a valid state ID!

 

I'll get to work on a letter or info page (probably 1/2 sheet) that can be presented to a property owner or others that explains what we are about. I'll post more (new thread) with a draft when I have time to work on it. However, if someone else wants to take the initiative, I certainly won't have my feelings hurt!

 

RAC

Share this post


Link to post

I've been surveying for 20+ years and I don't care what kind of badge you have (insert Blazing Saddles flashback) it will not absolve you from the state statutes on trespassing. Most boundary guys carry the statute in a wallet that proves they have a right to cross private property pursuant to the practice of boundary determination. Your best practice is to visit the land owner and ask for permission. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
I've had cops and harbor patrols watch me, and none of them have so much as wandered over to get a closer look.  I have a piece of paper in my hand, plus a GPS, plus a digital camera, plus a couple of pencils in my shirt pocket, plus a 100' metal rule, and I generally am looking around at the landscape, then at the page in my hand, then back to the landscape; they either figure I'm a harmless crackpot or I'm doing something official.

I usually get the 'he's official' look. Most of the times when I go out, I'm wearing a construction vest, with my tools.. They just assume I'm surveying, I guess. Once, in the middle of US-41 I parked right next to a Bellsouth and MelTec truck. The entire time I was standing out there, spraying little lines and measuring distances in the median, they never once glanced my way. ;)

 

Me.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

×
×
  • Create New...