Ever been afraid to look for one?

[+Desert_Warrior]

There are several benchmarks listed under zip code 79916 that are on Fort Bliss. I have given some thought to looking for them.

 

However, under the current Terrorist Threat Orange, I have decided that even though I am retired military, have an ID card, and often visit Fort Bliss, it might not be a good idea to just wander around the post taking photographs in strange places right now.

 

What do you think? Should I be bold and go forth? Or should I just cluck and lay an egg?

 

Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC).

El Paso, Texas.

 

Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom.

 

They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS!

[+WVDan]

I had the same feelings about one located in front of our State police headquarters here in town. I just went in and asked if it would be ok with them since it was on their property. I also told them I didn't want anyone to freak out if they looked out the window and seen some guy with a gps and camera around their building. They were ok with it. I was still nervous looking for it and didn't find it. There was a pile of snow 3 ft deep on top of it.

[+CoronaKid]

On my very first BM hunt, I was looking for one that required you to look in the middle of a two-lane road where drivers frequently hit 65 mph. I decided I didn't want the newspaper headline to read:

 

"Benchmark Hunter Dies After Being Thrown 200 ft."

 

And of course the GPSr would barely have a scratch and be working fine.

 

--CoronaKid

[+Criminal]

Picked up this benchmark on McChord AFB, read the log for more details. Common sense is your guide. There's one on Ft. Lewis, just down the road from here, but it's out on the artillery range. I ain't gwine out there! This and this are two more on the base. I logged two others that are water towers as well.

 

EDIT: Info added

 

http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

All I could say if there is FOLLOW ME. Yea though I walk through that Valley I fear NADA,comprende comrade.I would make it a point that they know who you are,and what you are doing and from there its a piece of cake.From the Things that are in the Grapevine we are starting to be heard here at geocaching..hint. I would proceed with caution as the ORANGE ALERT says...We know who we are.We know where they once was and now they is gone.No Problem anymore...

 

WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails

[+de_cache_man]

Last weekend I was looking for a benchmark. It was obviously on private property. I was just about to open the gate and meander (in a very friendly manner) toward the benchmark when I heard the barking. A couple of rotweilers would have ruined my whole day.

 

Afraid? Yes. I was VERY afraid.

[+David]

Ask permission. I haven't hunted one on a military base, but I have had 3 different landowners accompany me as I looked, and we had great discussions about many topics while I was there. I've yet to be denied permission, but I've yet to be asked to supper either.

 

What's the worst scenario if you ask permission? They'd say no. I'll bet that wouldn't hold true if you didn't ask.

 

Now the ones that I'm concerned with are the ones on railroad ROWs. I have several of those that would be easy finds, and I'd only be on RR property for 30 seconds. They are all on active single track mainlines and I know how to interpret the signals to know if there are trains in the vicinity. I also am capable of listening to their radio traffic. However, even if I did know who to call, I'm certain they would categorically reject my request.

 

[This message was edited by kd4adc on April 03, 2003 at 12:50 PM.]

[+flask]

uh, yup. RR ROW's are tricky nowadays. i was detained and questioned a couple of weeks ago. no permanent harm done, and i do get to tell the story.

 

but you might want to think about it first.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[+David]

quote:

---

Originally posted by flask:

i was detained and questioned a couple of weeks ago.

---

 

Could you elaborate, please?

[Z15]

fyi

 

Railroads are bad area's to be without consent. Some areas they take a dim view of anyone on the RR right of way. There are several reasons they don't want you there, sabotage, liability and safety for you and the railroad. In this area many years back they had labor problems and someone sabotaged the rails (remove the spikes) and many train cars loaded with iron ore derailed. It took them many days and it cost them a lot of money to repair the damage. Securty/maintanence trucks now ride the rails in advance of the train.

[rusty0101]

While I have not been on a base in the past couple of years, it was not unusual when I was in the military to see "photography prohibited" signs at various bases. It didn't stop the baracks rats from getting pictures of other baracks rats being drunk, or doing silly stuff.

 

In almost all cases, the reason that these signs, and various other similar signs exist is to protect against terrorists planning assults on the instalation.

 

A camera can be a very precice piece of surveying equipment, and photos taken prior to accidents where all parties to the accident were killed have been used to determine who was at fault. (In one case an accident where two helicopters colided, a picture taken by a tourist in the helecopter, of the ground was used to determine what height the helicopters were flying at, and which choper was out of his flight zone.)

 

Given all that, you may still find situations where the base rules may say in general it is ok to take pictures, but some areas are off limits. If you have permission to be on base to begin with, I strongly doubt that there will be anyone opposed to you finding a surveying device which is in publicly available databases.

 

If you ask the right people, you may even be invited to teach other retirees how to use GPSrs to find their way or as a way of being active and getting out.

 

As a further idea, you may be able to have a look at some of the military grade GPSr, that the soldiers on base may have available to them.

 

I do strongly recomend staying away from any physically dangerous locations, marks in the middle of streets and highways, or any place where you wonder about your own physical safety. No sense in falling down an embankment onto a freeway, or into a freezing river.

 

-Rusty

[+flask]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kd4adc:

quote:

---

Originally posted by flask:

i was detained and questioned a couple of weeks ago.

---

 

Could you elaborate, please?

---

 

the officer was very polite. he held us on location for about 40 minutes and questioned us o site. the bridge in question is a very nice bridge right next to a state highway. there's a honkin' driveway there, for pete's sake.

 

but anyway, i think what raised the alarm is that we were taking pictures of the bridge and of an old factory nearby.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[+David]

Good information. I hope Mike will forgive me for possibly hijacking his thread, but all of this concerns access and permission issues in these trying times. Also, I've seen photos in the galleries of marks recovered at sensitive locations either hands-on or through fences. I want to recover all that I can safely and hassle free.

[+gnbrotz]

I'm not really afraid of this one, but I don't think I'll be looking for it any time soon.

 

This brings me to another question or two:

 

1. If there is an official USGS mark on my property, can I deny surveyors access to it? (not that I would want to, this is purely a hypothetical)

 

2. If the USGS came along in 1942 (when many of the marks were set in my area) and wanted to monument a mark on my property, did they need my permission, or was it considered "eminent domain" by the government?

 

Greg

N 39 54.705'

W 77 33.137'

 

[This message was edited by gnbrotz on April 04, 2003 at 06:48 PM.]

[survey tech]

It does not involve eminent domain, Greg. Eminent domain requires that compensation be paid, which was not done. People can choose to comply or not as they wish. In the old days, most people were anxious to cooperate when it was explained to them that the use of their property would be of benefit to the community. Nowadays, technological improvements have made it less essential to occupy high points, which reduces the need to enter private property to set points. Therefore, an ever increasing percentage of all points are on public property or in public right-of-way, so the problem of access is gradually fading away.

[+chaosmanor]

As with geocaching, I think that it makes eminent sense to ask permission before hunting a BM on private land, especially if it is government land, which by definition is not private, but when has that ever made a difference? If a valid reason for searching can be presented, and if the owners/authorities agree, you've put yourself out a few minutes. If they demure, well, we can't always get what we want; there are other BMs to hunt for. But if you don't ask and they object after-the-fact, well, that's reason to be afraid!

 

As for RR RoW: around here, I've never heard of this being a problem. Folks regularly walk along RR tracks in SoCal, and they occasionally get mashed by the Metro trains, but that rarely results in security people showing up to patrol the rails. In a metropolitan area of over eight million people, it would be tough to keep people off the tracks; those who get killed while doing so are another example of "evolution in action".

 

So many caches; so few pairs of decent shoes

[+Webfoot]

quote:

---

hat's the worst scenario if you ask permission? They'd say no. I'll bet that wouldn't hold true if you didn't ask.

 

<snip> However, even if I did know who to call, I'm certain they would categorically reject my request.

---

 

This is the way I feel about this benchmark and two others like it, all located near the runways of Ontario International Airport. I doubt they'd want anyone traipsing anywhere near the runways, even if we were on Alert Status Green.

 

The other two have been monumented last in 1999. This one was last monumented in 1981. I think it would be an interesting find, but it's one that I'm going to chalk up as "fugedaboutit" and move on.

 

Webfoot

 

Tromping through the underbrush looking for Ammo cans, Tupperware containers, & little round disks.