Consensus please

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

Some people will log finds on caches that they helped hide but were hidden under another account. That is more of a grey area. Some see that as a legit find and others see it as numbers pumping.

 

In the end what constitutes a find is between you and the cache owner. If you are the cache owner then nobody else can tell you that you can't log a find on your cache, but don't be surprised if you become the subject of ridicule if you do it.

 

Not to revive a horse with a near death experience but I asked the account holder for the TotG caches why all those involved in hiding the caches for the trail logged them as finds. I am aware with the site limitation which only allows the account holder which submitted the listing to get "credit" for the find, but logging over 600 finds because you were part of a team and couldn't get hide credits for all of them so you log 600+ finds instead is, to me, ultimately cheesy, yet nobody ridiculed them for doing it.

 

I hope you don't have me on ignore. I've made about 5 or 6 wisecracks about it in various threads. Should I escalate to ridicule?

 

Nope. I don't ignore (at least not through an sort of tool) forum participants or use ignore lists on the main site. I think you need to include an icon like this: in order to escalate from a wisecrack to ridicule.

[Andronicus]

Here in my neck of the woods we like hiking in the mountains together and might find an awesome spot we would like to show others. One would place the cache and show in the title that A & B hid it, but it is listed by A. In this case I find it acceptable that B logs a find sometime after FTF and in doing that it is more to say "I have been there, had that experience and signed the logbook". I would consider it silly for either B to look the other way while the cache is hidden and then "find" it straight away, or to do the significant hike again only to log a legitimate find. B states in their log "I was part of the group that did this hike and accompanied A while he/she hid the cache" so the facts are stated up front.

 

In this case it is more about sharing the experience than logging the find. If you are into numbers then doing high terrain significant hikes that take quite a long time is a very slow way of clocking up numbers. I agree that the person who listed the cache should not log a find. An adopted cache is different as that is not the original person who listed the cache.

 

I have this issue a while back when my dauter hid a cache. You still can't 'find' something when you know were it is. I think that a note would be sufficient. It can be annoying that it shows up in your searches all the time. If you are a PM (I am not), you can put it on your ignor list. For me, I just put up with the unfound cache in my search.

[+Castle Mischief]

I don't do it. I don't care if you do it.

 

I think it's kind of silly and I might point and whisper about you at an event, but that's about as worked up as I can get about it.

[+Castle Mischief]

 

Some people will log finds on caches that they helped hide but were hidden under another account. That is more of a grey area. Some see that as a legit find and others see it as numbers pumping.

 

In the end what constitutes a find is between you and the cache owner. If you are the cache owner then nobody else can tell you that you can't log a find on your cache, but don't be surprised if you become the subject of ridicule if you do it.

 

Not to revive a horse with a near death experience but I asked the account holder for the TotG caches why all those involved in hiding the caches for the trail logged them as finds. I am aware with the site limitation which only allows the account holder which submitted the listing to get "credit" for the find, but logging over 600 finds because you were part of a team and couldn't get hide credits for all of them so you log 600+ finds instead is, to me, ultimately cheesy, yet nobody ridiculed them for doing it.

 

I was silently ridiculing them inside my head.

[+nikcap]

I've DNF'ed my own cache.

I hid it in the winter and in the summer I couldn't find it. So I replaced the cache.

Turns out someone also moved the cache "slightly" to match the coordinates in their GPS.

I went back an retrieved one of the containers.

 

Can I log this one as a find?

 

I'm really close to another milestone!

[CoyoteRed]

What is the consensus of logging your own caches as finds? I have a few friends who have done this, and I am torn. I see where it is construed as taboo, but I see the argument that you found the spot. I don't but what does everyone else think?

 

What would be your argument for logging a find on one of your own caches? If it's to get another smilie, then you have to ask yourself whether it's important to keep an accurate accounting of your geocaching activities. Have you always logged appropriately in the past? Have you ever logged a re-visit with a find log?

 

The point is, most folks think the find count is an accounting of the number of other peoples' caches you have found. Because of the limitation of this site, in order to make this work you should only log a single find on any cache you don't own or helped hide.

 

On the other hand, if you don't care about the number of smilies you have, have logged multiple finds on a single cache or have not logged a find on a cache you did find, then it wouldn't really matter. It's not as if you're inflating a smilie count--you don't care about it.

 

However, then I wouldn't see the point in logging a find. Any time you re-visit your own cache you have a special log-type for you--the maintenance log. You checked on it and make it shipshape. Maintenance.

 

As for other reasons to log a find on a cache you own, well again, that's because of limitations of this site. Not necessarily a character flaw in the cacher who does it.

[+AlohaBra and MaksMom]

Re: "Edit 2 : Someone else mentioned, a while back, that two geocachers share their account. Cacher A hid the cache and cacher B found it, logging it online."

 

I don't agree with this one. If two people are acting as one (one account), then what one does is as if both did it. We call that a community property state!

 

The account holds the hide - so the account doesn't get the find.

 

So far, the only exception I see viable is the "adoption" one.

 

I know a family account that did this, but were smart of enough to create a "Mom and Dad" account just for this one cache so the kid in the family can log it (FTF...I think it was a birthday surprise).

[+AlohaBra and MaksMom]

Do you guys have a shortage of caches in your area where you have to log you own caches as a find?

Edited April 6, 2010 by alohabra

[+Vater_Araignee]

Maybe there should be a new log type.

DONE!

 

Take it to mean how you need it.

I'm not a numbers guy but I want a native method of tracking what I have done.

This chunk of garbage is not worth me taking more effort to log online.

Stupid CO doesn't understand I am entitled to log any cache as a virtual that I want.

I was part of the teem and want it out of my PQs.

whatever.

 

But it wont alert the CO, you don't get to input text, it will never show up on the map, in a list, or PQ so you don't have to worry about clicking "are not on my ignore list" and it can't be reversed.

Edited April 6, 2010 by Vater_Araignee

[+noahk17]

Jack Bauer once forgot where he hid a Cache. He then proceeded to torture himself for 30 minutes until he gave up the location of the Cache.

[+tozainamboku]

The consensus - as you can tell - is to not log your owned caches. Still there are a few reasons where it might make sense - except to those that insist on having black and white rules for logging of caches.

 

1. Rare instance of a grandfathed moving cache. A moving caches is on where a finder rehides the cache in a new location. These are no longer allowed but a few grandfathered ones remain. If the cache has been rehidden by someone else it would be reasonable for a cache owner to log a find. (locationless caches also worked this way).

 

2. Events - most geocachers believe if you attend your own event you can log it as attended.

 

3. Adopted cache - Sometimes a cacher may have adopted a cache before they have logged it a found. Most geocachers believe that such a cache can be logged as found. Note that if you adopt a cache that you have already found it will show both as a cache you own (listed as hidded cache even though you didn't hide it) and as a cache you have found. This seems to bother a few geocachers.

 

4. Challenge caches - challenge caches are cache hidden with an extra logging requirement that you accomplish a geocaching, Waymarking, or Wherigo related task in order to log a find. Some cache owners who have hidded a challenge cache believe they should be able to take their own challeng and log a find on their cache. Some will make arrangement and have friend hide a personal cache for them to find when they complete a challenge so they don' t find a cache that they have hidden. New guideline for challenge caches make the arguments for logging your own challeng less compelling, but some will no doubt still feel that this is OK.

 

5. Family or team accounts. Sometimes a family or team share an account. All hides and finds are logged using one account. This bothers some geocachers because Mom can log a cache in one place while Dad and the kids are searching for caches in another part of town. They would prefer that each person have an individual account to preclude this. Sometime one team member will hide a cache and the others on the team will later go and find this cache. Since they did not hide the cache they claim a find.

 

6. Cache maintenance. Often a cache ownee returning to do maintenance on a cache will find it take a bit of search to find it. The cache may have been moved by another cacher trying to hide it better. Sometime the container has even been replaced. It could be a completely different hide than the owner left originally. Somtime owners will log a find almost as a way of mocking themselves on having such trouble finding their own cache.

 

7. Beta finds - in some areas it has become common practice to log a find on a cache you don't own but that you were there when the owner hide it. Some groups of cachers have taken to submitting the cache under a group name and have everyone in the group log a find with their personal accounts. While this pratice is bothersome to some, it has become widely accepted among others. (While this is not strictly an example of logging your own cache it does point to why their is lack of consensus on many logging issues).

 

Depending on your personal stance you might not agree with logging a cache as found in one or more of these cases. The point is that the person who did log a find probably thought it was a legitimate use of the Find log. The biggest problem we have (and lack of consensus) is the meaning of the find log. Some people consider the find count to be the "official score" of geocaching. They get very worked up if they see someone logging a find that they don't believe they should log and will often resort to calling those that do log as "cheaters". The people who have log caches they own, don't view themselves as cheaters. Very few actually log a cache they own simply to increase their find count. They log caches they own as finds because they legitimately feel they found that cache and they want to share that information in the online log. If someone else complains because this inflates their score, that person is simply "too concerned with the numbers".

 

Bottom line - don't log a find on a cache you own unless you believe this is a legitimate use of the Found it log. Don't worry about what other people do or don't do. The find count is not a score and if Joe_Logs_His_Own_Cache has a bigger find count because he logs his own hides so be it. It should not have any affect on whether or not you choose to log your own cache. If you feel Joe's reasons are silly, then you will of course treat him accordingly at events or when you meet in the field. Just don't call Joe a cheater because then you will look silly for trying to make the find count into a score and insisting on enforcement of rules over which there is certainly no consensus.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Do you guys have a shortage of caches in your area where you have to log you own caches as a find?

 

That's what I find odd. I suspect that in my area we *do* have a shortage of caches but I don't know of anyone around here that logs their own caches. There are over twice as many caches on the TotG trail than we have within a 10 mile radius. In terms of the number of caches available per state, according to the site, New York has 16554 caches lists versus 77625 in California. Not surprisingly, according to another site that I looked at there are only two geocachers from NY with more than 10,000 finds. California has 29 geocachers with 10,000 or more. Several of those that have been involved in the record setting efforts on the TotG are also in the top 10 of geocachers with the most finds.

[cwmagui]

I think that if this passes muster, you should also get an FTF along with your BOGUS find.

[+Castle Mischief]

I think that if this passes muster, you should also get an FTF along with your BOGUS find.

 

There are cachers who have done this.

 

Add the inherent silliness of logging your hide as a found to the frequent drama/angst of the FTF race and you get and whole mess of wacky. Like, this much:

 

[+the pooks]

 

<snip>

Bottom line - don't log a find on a cache you own unless you believe this is a legitimate use of the Found it log. Don't worry about what other people do or don't do. The find count is not a score and if Joe_Logs_His_Own_Cache has a bigger find count because he logs his own hides so be it. It should not have any affect on whether or not you choose to log your own cache. If you feel Joe's reasons are silly, then you will of course treat him accordingly at events or when you meet in the field. Just don't call Joe a cheater because then you will look silly for trying to make the find count into a score and insisting on enforcement of rules over which there is certainly no consensus.

 

As usual Toz - very well put.

[+stites1]

Play as you wish, there's no "rules" for you to break, really. But having said that, it's pretty darn cheesy to log your own cache as a find and if you did and others found out, they'd probably mock you. Which would be fun for them, so go ahead.

[Backup]

Mama always said, "stupid is as stupid does".

[+nericksx]

Ugh, more people who want to play the game "THEIR" way. So tired of this. If the game keeps degrading, I may have to look into another game, one that follows guidelines and where players have integrity.

 

It's not a team sport fer cryin' out loud and it's not a competition. You would really deprive yourself of a pastime because someone on the other side of the country took an action on their own cache that has no effect on you whatsoever?

 

I wouldn't log my own cache, it just never occurred to me. Who is tracking this stuff down though, and why? When I log a find, I don't audit all the logs before me just to make sure that everything is on the level and making a list of folks I can ridicule at the next gathering.

 

Am I missing something?

[+narcissa]

I think it's kind of silly and I might point and whisper about you at an event, but that's about as worked up as I can get about it.

 

IAWTC.

[GOF and Bacall]

Ugh, more people who want to play the game "THEIR" way. So tired of this. If the game keeps degrading, I may have to look into another game, one that follows guidelines and where players have integrity.

 

It's not a team sport fer cryin' out loud and it's not a competition. You would really deprive yourself of a pastime because someone on the other side of the country took an action on their own cache that has no effect on you whatsoever?

 

I wouldn't log my own cache, it just never occurred to me. Who is tracking this stuff down though, and why? When I log a find, I don't audit all the logs before me just to make sure that everything is on the level and making a list of folks I can ridicule at the next gathering.

 

Am I missing something?

 

Sometimes I like to read the old logs on a cache. Once in a while I notice something odd.It has nothing to do with tracking stuff down. In the case the OP was asking about it was friends. I assume that being friends they discuss things. Common interests. Like geocaching.

[+dfx]

It's not a team sport fer cryin' out loud and it's not a competition. ... Am I missing something?

yeah. for those who do log their own caches, it is a competition

[+sbell111]

It's not a team sport fer cryin' out loud and it's not a competition. ... Am I missing something?

yeah. for those who do log their own caches, it is a competition

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.