Finding reset marks - solicit opinions

[+seventhings]

See HV2479 (A315RESET) and HV2478 (A315). The HV2478 mark/location combination, obviously, no longer exists as it has been replaced by HV2479. However, the "Official History" of both PID/datasheets indicate that USPSQD recovered both marks in good condition in 1999. Seems impossible as the mark isn't at the old location (I checked, just to make sure). It's been moved and over-stamped "RESET". So, here's the question: Can you "find" a mark that has been reset in its pre-reset incarnation if it still has a PID/datasheet, assuming, of course, that you find the post-reset mark?

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I've heard reports that both the original and re-set exist in some cases. It seems that a mark that was destined to be destroyed sometimes isn't. It could be that the USPSQD found the original during such a time. It could also be a misunderstanding between the USPSQD and the NGS.

 

As far as I know, they don't move them and re-stamp them. Instead, the re-set one is new.

 

You can't count the original as a find unless you see it (without being stamped reset).

[+emike]

Here's an original KZ0796 and a reset KZ2401 sitting a foot apart. http://img.Groundspeak.com/benchmark/lg/37859_200.jpg

The original is in the Head Wall of the culvert. The RESET is in the Wing.

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=KZ0796

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.asp?PID=KZ2401

 

EMike

"It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts."

[sixthings]

emike. it looks like the headwall is a lot older than the wingwalls. is that right? maybe the whole thing was scheduled to be trashed and built again, and therefore a RESET was placed. but then again, the headwall would still have been there when they set the RESET...weird. is the mark in the headwall loose? maybe they anticipated it falling out, and cemented in a new one when the opportunity arose.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Looking at the picture, I suspect that the headwall was in danger of collapsing or moving too much and it was initially planned to rebuild the entire structure.

 

Perhaps a bit later, it was decided that the headwall could actually be saved and that just a new wingwall could be added to the old headwall instead of rebuilding the whole thing.

 

The re-set could've been done anyway because the headwall was suspected to have moved too much.

[Z15]

This is strange. The headwall is more stable than a wing-wall. The culvert often has a footing but the wing-wall is not on a footing.

 

It could be that someone thought they were doing something right and it turned out not to be. Sometimes good help is hard to find.

 

I found a reset BM dated 1972 in which the original 1934 BM is still in place and good but the 1972 reset is damaged. It is a copper coated steel rod with disk in 6-inch iron pipe. Nearby property owner said the twp hit the disk with a brush mower many years ago. I also found one of those rod that was caught by a county brush mower that uses chains. pulled the rod out of the ground some 6 feet and twisted it up like a pretzel. Per the description it still some 70 ft deep.

[+emike]

Yes, the HeadWall is older. And, it seemed quite stable. I was wnodering if, perhaps they were going to replace the whole thing and decided that the headwall was is good shape and instaed of pouring new concrete they just reused it as BDT suggests the wall may have actually moved some, so a decision to go ahead and reset. Although both coordinates are the same.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by sixthings:

emike. it looks like the headwall is a lot older than the wingwalls. is that right? maybe the whole thing was scheduled to be trashed and built again, and therefore a RESET was placed. but then again, the headwall would still have been there when they set the RESET...weird. is the mark in the headwall loose? maybe they anticipated it falling out, and cemented in a new one when the opportunity arose.

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EMike

"It's what you learn after you know it all, that counts."

[Z15]

Looking at it a bit more I would say that there was some thought of putting up a guard rail or barrier on the headwall obscuring the original marks. Since it was 13.5 ft of the highway centerline it could be a hazard. They could put a parapet (spelling) concrete barrier, the kind that are curved.

 

I have seen several of these type culverts get guard rail placed and now the mark is not usable. But the wing-wall is not always a stable place. Matter of fact many of these culverts are often unstable. There are 2 basic designs, a box culvert (built in place) and a precast slab culvert (dig hole and place). The box culver is built on concrete footings and the slab is just sitting on a gravel base. Most all box culverts in my state do not have a concrete floor, but a precast slab does. So Box culverts are more stable. We surveyed a lot of these for replacement and extending. You can usually tell an unstable culvert by looking for a bump or crack in the pavement about the culvert.

 

btw-These are now wetlands sites and cost a fortune to replace or repair.

 

Is is still this close to the road today?