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What states and provinces do not allow cemetery caches?


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In Tennessee, "making any game" in a cemetery is illegal. US Federal cemeteries have rules against game playing in cemeteries.

 

I suspect that whoever is reviewing in South Carolina is requiring explicit and fully documented permission for any cemetery hide - as legislation was written (but not enacted) to make geocaching in cemeteries (and other historic areas) a felony. There may be other US States where reviewers are similarly cautious, and will require express and verifiable permission, but there is no written law (that I'm aware of)

 

We found this one in Tennessee last spring.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...54-48e477c61e53

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What is the origin of the term Spirit Quest. I don't mind the name, it just doesn't seem intuitive to me.

 

I believe it is just the name that the creator of the series chose. I think the name started in Indiana and has been adopted in some other states, sometimes adhering to the Indiana ISQ rules and sometimes not. (Although looking at that listing I see the rules have changed over time.)

 

Indiana Spirit Quest #2

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I can't speak for other states.

 

However in Texas it is legal. Providing that the "Entity" that manages/owns the cemetary aproves. This only applies to cemetaries privately held. (Ie any cemetary not owned by the City, Country, State or Federal Government)

 

That vast majority of Cemeteries in Texas are actually privately held. Very few cities/counties in Texas actually own any cemetery land.

 

However, those states that have banned so called "Gaming" inside cemeteries have loop holes. If you have a member of your family buried in said cemetery & they have a headstone then it could be possible to place a cache.

 

Just recently we had to buy a new headstone for our Family grave site in Oklahoma. (Ie the main headstone for the family plot that just lists the last name for our family members buried in that section of the cemetery) the Original gravestone was destroyed by a twister. Anyways the new headstone has a spot for Flowers to be put in it. One could easily put a cache in the bottom of that spot below the flowers.

 

Legally speaking though, I would actually like to see if someone actually would get arrested for geocaching in a cemetery and actually see if it could hold up in court if the law were challenged. I personally don't think it could be upheld in court.

 

TGC

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Side note -- In Michigan, it is against the law to be in a cemetery during hours of darkness. Caches are typically allowed, with permission from the authority/owner.

 

Not a new law, so am guessing it was enacted to combat malicious mischief/defacing, etc.

 

There are exceptions to that law. I know this because I went to a funeral that was held at the gravesite after dark. However after the funeral everyone was required to leave immediately. (The guy that died was strange, his will required that he be buried after the sun had set and the moon was visible in the sky)

 

TGC

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Being from SC, I can assure you that the reviewer here will NOT allow caches anywhere near a cemetery. Even stages of a multi that are simply to gather information are not allowed. This is what I was told by the reviewer.

 

It all has something to do with a bit of legislation that would make it illegal to operate a GPSr on any historical grounds. These grounds included, among other things, cemeteries and, theoretically, could have been adapted by the state to include whatever they wanted.

 

It's incredible how much impact forbidding the use of GPSr at historic locations can be for games, tourism wanting to use GPS devices, and local governments forming GIS programs. By this legislation, all Waymarking of historical places would be prohibited in South Carolina. This would be the quintessential cutting of one's nose to spite one's face.

 

I was thinking that myself.... I don't think it made it through legislation. Even if it did. I think it would be challenged to the United States Supreme court as well.

 

TGC

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I can't speak for other states.

 

However in Texas it is legal. Providing that the "Entity" that manages/owns the cemetary aproves. This only applies to cemetaries privately held. (Ie any cemetary not owned by the City, Country, State or Federal Government)

 

That vast majority of Cemeteries in Texas are actually privately held. Very few cities/counties in Texas actually own any cemetery land.

 

However, those states that have banned so called "Gaming" inside cemeteries have loop holes. If you have a member of your family buried in said cemetery & they have a headstone then it could be possible to place a cache.

 

Just recently we had to buy a new headstone for our Family grave site in Oklahoma. (Ie the main headstone for the family plot that just lists the last name for our family members buried in that section of the cemetery) the Original gravestone was destroyed by a twister. Anyways the new headstone has a spot for Flowers to be put in it. One could easily put a cache in the bottom of that spot below the flowers.

 

Legally speaking though, I would actually like to see if someone actually would get arrested for geocaching in a cemetery and actually see if it could hold up in court if the law were challenged. I personally don't think it could be upheld in court.

 

TGC

It would be a class c misdameaner.... Just a parking ticket..... Just a guess

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I can't speak for other states.

 

However in Texas it is legal. Providing that the "Entity" that manages/owns the cemetary aproves. This only applies to cemetaries privately held. (Ie any cemetary not owned by the City, Country, State or Federal Government)

 

That vast majority of Cemeteries in Texas are actually privately held. Very few cities/counties in Texas actually own any cemetery land.

 

However, those states that have banned so called "Gaming" inside cemeteries have loop holes. If you have a member of your family buried in said cemetery & they have a headstone then it could be possible to place a cache.

 

Just recently we had to buy a new headstone for our Family grave site in Oklahoma. (Ie the main headstone for the family plot that just lists the last name for our family members buried in that section of the cemetery) the Original gravestone was destroyed by a twister. Anyways the new headstone has a spot for Flowers to be put in it. One could easily put a cache in the bottom of that spot below the flowers.

 

Legally speaking though, I would actually like to see if someone actually would get arrested for geocaching in a cemetery and actually see if it could hold up in court if the law were challenged. I personally don't think it could be upheld in court.

 

TGC

It would be a class c misdameaner.... Just a parking ticket..... Just a guess

 

For which state are you refering too? Texas? Oklahoma? I could be wrong. But in Texas or Oklahoma if you place a cache on private property without permission. Legally speaking you could get a ticket for Trespassing. Either state Trespassing is a misdameaner. Unless it is on certain city, country, state, or federal property. In which case Trespassing can be "upped" to Felony Tespassing. Example Trespassing on Texas Prison Property without authorization IS in Texas a Felony offense.

 

TGC

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Even if you put on on a privetly owned cem, a privetly owned cem has open gates.

If its open gates.. then its open?

Unless the sign says "NO GEO CACHING" it should be open to anyone, obiousely rules apply like no fireworks, no running around naked, no pissing on headstones. but No geocaching as an understood rule sounds stupid :rolleyes:

 

I live and texas and of my 26 cache 4 have been in cems...

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I have the "Texas Spirit Quest " Series here in Texas and I have not run across any problems with my cache hides. I have also found pleny of caches hidden in cemeteries even with people there in the cemetery visiting and I wasn't even looked at while I had hunted for a cache.

As for my cache placements in the well maintained cemeteries that are very much active I place my containers in the bushes outside of the cemetery itself. I have found pleny of not very used and very much forgotten cemeteries and I do place my caches within a tree or bush in the cemetery. I haven't had any logs on any of my cemetery caches that are of anybody getting questioned or feeling very uneasy about my cemetery caches. I just hope I continue to have good luck with my caches cause alot of cachers seam to enjoy my series.

As of anylaws for cemetery caches here in Texas I don't beleive I have heard of any buy I know there is for playing around at night or even during the day to prevent vandalism and/or disrespect for the dead.

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I recently tried to place a cache in a Tennessee cemetery. Obviously I was unaware of the law. My reviewer stated only 2 states have the law, I wasn't allowed to put a cache within 1/10 of a mile from the cemetery, and older caches were grandfathered. Needless, to say I was surprised, but I do understand. Caching with my 5 year old, I constantly have to remind him to be quiet anywhere we go, especially in cemeteries. Could be a problem and seen as disrespectful. But I do enjoy hunting the older caches! Cemeteries seem to be an easy area to play off the fact that I'm walking around slowly, looking down, etc...

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I personally own caches in three different cemeteries. Two have explicit permission, and the 3rd has "adequate permission as it's an Indian burial ground from several hundred years ago that few even know about these days.

 

Adequate permission for an Indian burying ground? The Native Americans that I know and have worked with over the years are extremely protective of such places and consider them sacred. There are a number of state laws dealing with the protection of such places and the establishment of a Native Heritage Commission charged with protecting and preserving these areas. Native people in my area do annual walks to call for support and to pray for the protection of their sacred and cultural sites - in particular, burial areas and shellmounds. Would they believe that a burial ground is appropriate for caching?

 

When I lived in tbe Sierra foothills, i was asked by local Maidu to obtain permission from the area's elders before taking on certain projects - a matter of respect that we followed when we organized anything affecting Native people. I wonder if they feel there has been adequate permission.

Edited by mulvaney
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It all has something to do with a bit of legislation that would make it illegal to operate a GPSr on any historical grounds. These grounds included, among other things, cemeteries and, theoretically, could have been adapted by the state to include whatever they wanted.

 

It's incredible how much impact forbidding the use of GPSr at historic locations can be for games, tourism wanting to use GPS devices, and local governments forming GIS programs. By this legislation, all Waymarking of historical places would be prohibited in South Carolina. This would be the quintessential cutting of one's nose to spite one's face.

 

I was thinking that myself.... I don't think it made it through legislation. Even if it did. I think it would be challenged to the United States Supreme court as well.

 

TGC

 

Yet another reason we should have just let them secede.

I would gladly drive to the backward state and get arrested for using a GPSr in a cemetery or historic location in data-gathering for a website of historical locations.

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It all has something to do with a bit of legislation that would make it illegal to operate a GPSr on any historical grounds. These grounds included, among other things, cemeteries and, theoretically, could have been adapted by the state to include whatever they wanted.

 

It's incredible how much impact forbidding the use of GPSr at historic locations can be for games, tourism wanting to use GPS devices, and local governments forming GIS programs. By this legislation, all Waymarking of historical places would be prohibited in South Carolina. This would be the quintessential cutting of one's nose to spite one's face.

 

I was thinking that myself.... I don't think it made it through legislation. Even if it did. I think it would be challenged to the United States Supreme court as well.

 

TGC

 

Yet another reason we should have just let them secede.

I would gladly drive to the backward state and get arrested for using a GPSr in a cemetery or historic location in data-gathering for a website of historical locations.

 

Yeah....thanks. We took care of it.

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A technical point:

 

When I bought the cemetary plot for my eventual demise, I got a deed to a piece of land 6 feet by 3 feet. Doesn't that make it my property? And when I die the plot is (or can be) inhereted by whomever I choose to designate. Therefore the caretakeers are my employees, not owners. I understand that the rights may change once the title ownership becomes less clear (as in historical cemetaries) but how could a State unilaterally change the property rights of individuals on active not historic) cemetaries? seems like permission given by a plot owner to make a hide could be valid.

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The caretaker vs owner comment rings a bell with me.

I was in a county-maintained cemetery looking for a geocache the other day when the cemetery district supervisor/manager pulled in and chastised me for geocaching and that he doesn't want geocaches in any of "his" cemeteries and that we're walking on "his" grass, etc etc.

One of the hiders had permission from him to hide the cache near a relative's grave. And he told me "I think the game is a good thing, I wouldn't mind a cache hidden in front of my house, just not in the cemeteries"

So mixed reaction and mixed responses from the guy. In this case, since the county maintains the cemeteries in question, I would like to see several geocachers approach the county commissioners to settle the issue.

I also would like to find the geocache in front of the guy's house at 3am. [:)]

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I know that geocaches in cemeteries are not encouraged here. But for places where they're allowed, a lot of cemeteries have their own governing board. The caretaker is not able to give permission here for what goes on in the cemetery only the board can. And those boards also over see the abandoned pioneer cemeteries as well.

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A technical point:

 

When I bought the cemetary plot for my eventual demise, I got a deed to a piece of land 6 feet by 3 feet. Doesn't that make it my property? And when I die the plot is (or can be) inhereted by whomever I choose to designate. Therefore the caretakeers are my employees, not owners. I understand that the rights may change once the title ownership becomes less clear (as in historical cemetaries) but how could a State unilaterally change the property rights of individuals on active not historic) cemetaries? seems like permission given by a plot owner to make a hide could be valid.

 

It depends on the language in the deed. Even though a plot is owned, the rules set by the association/trust/board that oversees the cemetery might have to be followed. A condominium is a similar case; a person may own the condominium, but the association's rules have to be followed. Always check the rules before you buy.

 

Don't forget about the abutting plots. Although one might not mind a cache on one's own plot, coordinate error will result in geocachers walking on the neighboring plots, rummaging through the plantings, etc. There is also the problem of geocaching while a gravesite service is going on: GCQBNG

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In Tennessee they are not only not allowed, but "to play at any game or amusement" is a Class E felony. Here is the relevant text:

 

Tennessee Cemetery & Burial Site Laws

Statutory Laws

(Tennessee Code Annotated)

Title 46. Cemeteries

46-2-105. Crimes and offenses

No person shall willfully destroy, deface, or injure any monument, tomb, gravestone, or other structure placed in the cemetery, or any roadway, walk, fence or enclosure in or-around the same, or injure any tree, plant or shrub therein, or hunt or shoot therein, play at any game or amusement therein, or loiter for lascivious or lewd purposes therein, or interfere, by words or actions, with any funeral procession or any religious exercises.

(A violation of this section is a Class E felony, punishable by 1 to 6 years in jail and a fine not to exceed $3,000)

 

We were in Tennessee weekend before last. Did some caching while there. From what we saw, there are a LOT of caches in cemeteries where we were. We did a little night caching and skipped over all of the cemetery caches simply because of the implications that can be made when someone is in a cemetery at night.

 

Glad we skipped them!

 

Being from SC, I can assure you that the reviewer here will NOT allow caches anywhere near a cemetery. Even stages of a multi that are simply to gather information are not allowed. This is what I was told by the reviewer.

 

It all has something to do with a bit of legislation that would make it illegal to operate a GPSr on any historical grounds. These grounds included, among other things, cemeteries and, theoretically, could have been adapted by the state to include whatever they wanted.

 

Members of local geocaching associations sat with legislators and made an agreement to keep geocaching out of the area the lawmakers specified and the lawmakers would let the bill die. Again, this is what I understand from the SC reviewer.

 

Hence, there is no ACTUAL legislation, but geocaching folks in SC like to keep the status quo and stay on the state house's good side.

 

Once more, I am in now way an authority... this is just what I have understood from past conversations and emails.

 

I have to say this is a little ridiculous for a free country. No GPS's on historical grounds? Next thing you'll know they'll say no cell phones there either.

 

Wow... sad.

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In South Carolina in 2009, they ended up passing H3794, which greatly restricts geocaching in all wildlife management areas, heritage preserves, and all other lands owned and/or controlled by the South Carolina Department of Natural Resources. This includes most of the National Forest areas in South Carolina.

 

It doesn't outright ban them, it means you have to get their permission and cooperation before placing one. Dreher Island Park here in SC is one area where the rangers and geocahers have cooperated with each other, and there are around 20 caches on the island.

 

http://www.randomconnections.com/?p=2698

and

http://uscgeocaching.net/forum/e107_plugin...topic.php?12919

 

This bill does not cover geocaches in cemeteries although geocaching.com has a self-imposed ban on geocaches in cemeteries in South Carolina.

Edited by gpsblake
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Even if you put on on a privetly owned cem, a privetly owned cem has open gates.

If its open gates.. then its open?

Unless the sign says "NO GEO CACHING" it should be open to anyone, obiousely rules apply like no fireworks, no running around naked, no pissing on headstones. but No geocaching as an understood rule sounds stupid :P

 

I live and texas and of my 26 cache 4 have been in cems...

 

Do you have a particular private cemetery in mind? If so, please let me know and I'll contact them...you know, just to be sure. :)

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As far as I know, Oregon is "okay"--judging anyway by the vast number of caches hidden in cemeteries around Portland and other areas of the state. I also just placed (yesterday, coincidentally) 11-stage Cemetery tour west of Portland, though all 11 stages are information gathering, not physical placements (only the final has the physical cache). The cemetery signs here say mostly "dawn to dusk" and (interestingly) "no artifical flowers April-October" is the most promiment rule I've seen outside of visiting hours.

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Thankfully they are allowed in Indiana, and even somewhat encouraged by the Indiana Department of Natural Resources who manages most of our properties. Recently the DNR has even been teaching headstone restoration to local geocaching clubs.

 

Geocaches in a cemetery, especially the over 700 Indiana Spirit Quests that have been hidden, provide a history lesson to the public. Since I started geocaching, I now know all kinds of things about the cemeteries around me. A lot of the older headstone in my area are made of whetstone which was abundant in the area, and most whetstone headstones from the 19th century in the entire U.S. were quarried and carved right here in Southern Indaina. Then when limestone started to be quarried we started to get these beautiful limestone markers that I would have never witnessed if it wasn't for the Indiana Spirit Quest series. Most of the cemetery caches in the area also point out forgotten heroes and community founders that most cachers would never have known about. I now know where all the Revolutionary War soldiers in my area are buried, also all the Medal of Honor recipients, hundreds of civil war combatants, and senators, and past governors. If states outlaw geocaching in cemeteries they are being blind to the history lessons they provide. I can't speak personally for all geocachers in my area, but I always pick up trash, straighten flowers, and replace the American Flags on the graves I walk by while geocaching.

 

Maybe this is a good argument to bring back virtuals?

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HERE'S SOME RELEVANT DATA,as of Jan. 3, 2010:

 

 

 

 

Here's some updated data about selected cache series.

 

Indiana Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,.............2-25-04, 684 caches, SixDogTeam and 34+ hiders.

 

Ohio Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,.......... ......5-9-05, 49 caches, *The Shadow*/Moop Along and 6+ hiders

 

Michigan Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,...........11-14-05, 47 caches, Wolverine Warriors and 7+ hiders.

 

Minnesota Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,..... ...5-26-08, 1 cache, King Boreas

 

Ontario Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,.............4-12-05, 1 cache, Team Tigger International

 

Wisconsin Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,.........10-1-08, 54 caches, Sweet Life

 

Georgia Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,............10-12-08, 21 caches, LZ33 and 1+ hiders

 

North Dakota Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,... 5-17-08, 4 caches, Totem Clan

 

Kentucky Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ,...........11-16-08, 8 caches, Cav Scout

 

Florida Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ................05-07-09, 5 caches, Trader Rick and Rosie

 

New Jersey Spirit Quest, Allied with ISQ.....COMING SOON , GIPSIE

 

********************************************************************

PC Spirit Quest [indiana] Acknowledges ISQ,...5-1-05, 8 caches, Team Bobby Mac

 

Colorado Spirit Quest, Acknowledges ISQ,.......6-3-08, 288 caches, Ivy Dog Parents and 26+ hiders

 

Louisiana Spirit Quest, Acknowledges ISQ........1-31-09, 2 caches, Zsandman +1

 

~KSY [Kentucky], Copycat series ...................5-5-06, 143 caches

 

********************************************************************

 

 

 

BC Spirit Quest, Independent,........................ ......4-11-07, 30 caches, Legacy Pac

 

Maine Spirit Quest, Independent, ................... .......5-7-06, 36 caches, Northwoods Explorer

 

New Hampshire Spirit Quest, Independent...............9-21-08, 1 cache, King.Hubi

 

Texas Spirit Quest Independent,............................11-11-08, 27 caches, Condor 1 and 2+ hiders

 

Whatcom Spirit Quest [Washington], Independent,...10-15-05, 25 caches, Half Canadian and Scooter

 

Illinois Spirit Quest, Independent,..........................2-4-09, 76 caches, Joranda and 3+ hiders

 

AB. Spirit Quest, Independent...............................4-19-09, 6 Caches, Donnord

 

**********************************************************************

 

"SQ" cache series:

 

Michigan -- ...64 Caches

 

Ohio --..........80 caches

 

Texas --........ 2 caches

 

Indiana --...... 1 cache

 

WSQ [Wisconsin] --14 caches??

 

Ontario --..... 2 caches

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I can tell you that they are a ok in PA.

That is very interesting. Could you explain what "a ok" means?

Troll!!! ;):P:)

I spend hours each week reviewing cemetery cache submissions and engaging in a dialogue with their owners. Making sure that geocaching doesn't get a bad name or any formal restrictions is quite important to me. Seeing that work summed up as "a ok" was a bit surprising.

 

What do YOU do to promote geocaching, besides skipping from one forum thread to the next?

 

:o

 

Is there some additional requirement to posting on these boards that I'm unaware of or some sort of criteria for post count and number of threads you can reply to? I mean sheesh, threads about hot, divisive topics spill on for days and days but goodness, make a non-serious comment- replete with smileys and wha-bam! If only hiding and finding caches makes us non-reviewers some sort of second-class member of the community, I'd like to know up front.

Knowschad promotes geocaching by finding 4997 caches, hiding 122 caches , posting 8545 forum posts and paying his dues. That makes him more active than most of us. Perhaps he could host some events. I don't know what else he may or may not do--mentoring newbies, repairing caches in the field, distributing coins or trackables, arranging caching runs, etc. Does anybody have any suggestions what else he (or any of us) could do to promote Geocaching more so as to avoid being attacked in the forums? We don't have the opportunity to volunteer to be a reviewer or moderator, nor do many of us probably possess the requisite patience or temperment to do so anyway...

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