Railroad right of way

[+mustanglx]

Around here in central PA there is alot of railroad right-of-ways with alot of BM along them.

Is there an easy way of getting to them. I know you are not to tresspass. Do you have to ask for permission, do you just ignore those BM's or do you just go late at night.

 

Because PA was the home to the famous PRR there is alot of old BM's that I would love to search for.

 

mustanglx

[Z15]

A lot of RR's don't want anyone on their ROW. It can be dangerous area to be in and I would look elsewhere.

 

I worked for the DOT of years and we often needed high level permission to enter and work around active RR lines. Often the insisted on sending a escort. The RR's are governed by federal laws so be carefull. I would avoid them if it was me.

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Railroad right-of-ways have many old and interesting benchmarks located within them. As a matter of fact, two of my favorite benchmark finds - a 1901 and a 1908, both in near perfect condition - were adjacent to railroads. But Elcamino is right - railroad companies and the Federal Government do not want you in the right-of-ways, and the trespassing penalties can be harsh. Permission for access can be difficult to obtain, but if you know someone who works for the railroad, it may be as simple as asking.

 

There are literally thousands of benchmarks to find, so focus on marks away from the railroads (and highways). As unbelievable as it is, the trains, even loaded freight trains, can be very quiet and stealthy. It IS possible to not hear them coming. Whatever you do, be careful.

 

Keep on Caching!

- Kewaneh

[+Woodbutcher68]

Trains ALWAYS win in a game of chicken.

 

Maps?!? We don't need no stinking maps! We got coordinates!

[+mustanglx]

Well I don't know anyone that works for the railroad so I will have to search for other Benchmarks that I can get to.

I know some of the tracks run right next to the road maybe the benchmark will be on the road side of the tracks.

Oh well.

mustanglx

[+amazar]

Read the descriptions. Some of them were placed near intersections and, in fact closer to the road - but others should be avoided, I think.

 

Of course, the fact that so many were placed along railroads is just one more reason why I LOVE RAIL TRAILS!

 

Logged my first find while bicycling on a rail trail today. Looks like there are several more along this trail, too.

[+flask]

they WILL detain you, you you have to know the territory. that said, i go ahead and look at ROW benchmarks near my home and near roads. i do not usually poke around in unfamiliar RsOW. anymore.

 

it doesn't matter if you get to camp at one or at six. dinner is still at six.

[dsurveyor]

A minor point, but, most railroads are held in Fee, meaning the railroad owns the land by deed and IS NOT a ROW or Easement. Do what you want, just know what you're doing.

 

dsurveyor

 

Experience - A list of non fatal mistakes.

[+mustanglx]

I never thought about Rail-to-Trails.

In our area we have a very active group that is going around and getting the old RR ROWs turned into trails.

Thats a good idea. Off to do a search for BMs

 

mustanglx

[+amazar]

The problem with Rails-to-Trails is that the benchmark descriptions usually still list the railroad. See, for example, PO0303. Then click on the MapQuest link. It still shows the railroad. Unless you know the area, it's not clear this is a trail.

[Z15]

Most of the "Rails to Trails" were searched and marked for Geodetic Control in Michigan. I know for a fact the NGS advisor did a area hear and at his request I did another stretch of RR abandonment, placing witness posts and updating descriptions. You would not believe all the paperwork a RR has to do to abandon a RR including notifying NGS. The RR's are governed by the SUrface Transportation Board.

 

quote:

---

RK0146

RK0146 STATION RECOVERY (1998)

RK0146

RK0146'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1998 (RLR)

RK0146'STATION WAS RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. AS I TRAVELED INTO THIS

RK0146'STATION USING A FOUR WHEEL DRIVE ATV WITHOUT AN ODOMETER, NO MILEAGE

RK0146'CHECKS WERE MADE AT THIS TIME. A NEW WITNESS POST WAS DRIVEN BY THE

RK0146'STATION TO AID IN MARKING IT WHEN THEY TURN THE TRACKS INTO A RAILS TO

RK0146'TRAILS PROJECT AND REMOVE THE TRACKS. RECOVERED BY RONALD L. RAMSEY,

RK0146'NGS GEODETIC ADVISOR - MICHIGAN.

---

[+amazar]

It sounds like Michigan is much more on the ball than Wisconsin, at least in this respect.

 

On the other hand, MapQuest still shows benchmark RK0146 as being near the "Duluth S Shore And Atlantic Rr" as in the original description.

[Z15]

Yes, for the last 20 yrs or so we had a very pro-active NGS advisor. He was always concerned about the marks and did everything in his power to preserve them. The guy in that description retired in 2002. He was successful in getting many private companies to help preserve the marks but providing information, witness posts and help resetting marks etc. For years he was a one man survey crew running all over the state recovering and resetting marks but the last few years the funds for this dried up. Now the state dept's are doing a lot of the work, DOT the most with the private sector doing what it can. We often had the $ to do the work because of the construction project funding etc.

[+FFC]

What are the odds of a mark being destroyed as the rails were removed? I was searching for one todayhere that does not seem to be there. I see in this thread that Michigan seemed to try and preserve them, anybody know about Ohio?

 

There are 2 more benchmarks along this same line that I planned on looking for but spent so much time at the first one that I had to get back to work. I would rather spend my time elsewhere if it's likely that they were destroyed as the track was removed.

[+seventhings]

I generally stay clear of ROWs. Unless, of course, I think I can get on and off without creating a scene. But I ignore 99 out of 100 marks on ROWS.

[Cracker.]

Here in western NY, I live next to an old RR bed that has been turned into a Greenway Trail in the past ten years. The RR was called the Genesee Valley RailRoad, which at one point was owned by and part of the Penn RR.

 

There are MANY benchmarks along it....mostly only a mile or two apart. Some are old bolts, placed when the RR was constructed in the 1870's, most placed between 1939-1941.

 

Unfortunately, I have come across several that were obviously destroyed when the Greenway people started developing the RR bed for a trail. I honestly do not know why they need to bulldoze a perfectly good, well groomed trail...

 

Anyway, I have many beefs with them about their methods that I wont go into here.

 

I would suggest that if any of these Rails-to-Trails are being developed in your area, get in touch with the organization doing it, and explain how important and historical these BM's are....maybe they'll actually give a p@@p, and try to be more careful with them.

 

I would try to stay away from active RR ROW's, though.

 

Art

 

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[+chaosmanor]

It should be noted that there is a fine for destroying a control. This would apply not only to individuals but to a government agency as well, even another Federal one. The NPS, NFS, BLM, etc. cannot just rip out a BM without running the risk of at least a reprimand. That being said, the facts are that the fine is low and the budget for enforcement and prosecution is essentially non-existant. Most people haven't a clue as to the purpose of controls. Construction companies are rarely apprised as to their value, and their crews tend to be ignorant. Thus, it is up to the few, the proud... you get the idea

 

As to the need to "bulldoze a perfectly good, well-groomed trail...", it is almost a certainty that an old RR bed would need grading to be converted into a trail, if only to clean out sub-surface detritus. However, this should not preclude the saving of BMs and anything else of historical, natural or cultural value. It is a sad fact that most groups tend to think only of the value of their own neat ideas. Tunnel-vision is an all-too-human problem; geocachers aren't immune, either.

 

So many caches; so few pairs of decent shoes