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Would you move this cache?


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I have this weird feeling like maybe I've asked this before so if I have please forgive me. It's been a crazy past few weeks. I placed this cache GC22PZE in the dead of winter. It's in a heavily used park near a trail so tons of muggles about. I looked for a while to find a spot where it would be very unlikely that anyone would accidentally spot it. What I came up with was a big gnarly tree with a natural deep hole in the middle of it. I put my container in the bottom of it and covered it with a big piece of bark I found on the ground. To access the tree you have to carefully navigate through a good deal of green briar. It's not comfortable access but doable. I managed to get in and out a couple of times ok, walking carefully, but have had one finder say they got stabbed. Also, there is apparently the hugest poison ivy vine anyone has ever seen right by the tree that is becoming more apparent as we come into Spring and leaves are starting to come out. Now my cache is a very bright blue CUTE piggy bank begging to be stolen so I do like that no sane muggle would ever find it :wub: But do have some finders complaining about the thorns and having to avoid the huge poison ivy vine. I have the terrain set to 3, the thorns attribute, and comments about thorns and poison ivy in the description. Would you consider them appropriately forewarned and my cache appropriately hidden, or would you, if it were yours, move it to a new probably less safe-from-theft location so finders could find it with greater comfort?

Edited by Opalblade
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depends on what your idea for that cache is/was. we had a similar situation a few times, and i think we've always just left the cache where it was and instead added apropriate notes to the cache description, bumped the terrain rating and adjusted the attributes.

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Thank you for the thoughts so far :wub: I've bolded the words "thorny area" and "poison ivy".

 

That is all you can do. If I read the cache description, I would attempt the cache by approaching it with caution. If I then decide I don't want to venture through those shiny leaves with their thorny neighbours, at least I didn't go running into them blindly.

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The difficulty usually makes the find more of a triumph.

 

As long as there is adequate warning, I would leave it.

 

Why would there even need to be adequate warning? I know it would be the kind thing to do but there's no rule requiring a warning. I would guess the majority of cachers who have a reaction may know what the plant looks like.

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Your page gives me the info to make the decision for myself not to take my 4 and 2 year old, so if I was in your area, I'd leave them behind and go for it myself. I think you've done right. Someone is always going to complain.

 

Actually, reading through the logs, I didn't see any complaints about the PI. Just notes to future seekers to beware of it in the area.

 

You've put in the terrain and warnings to let people know what to face. I think it's fine as long as you don't mind the risk whenever you make a maintenance run. :wub:

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The difficulty usually makes the find more of a triumph.

 

As long as there is adequate warning, I would leave it.

 

Why would there even need to be adequate warning? I know it would be the kind thing to do but there's no rule requiring a warning. I would guess the majority of cachers who have a reaction may know what the plant looks like.

 

I would like to know this information before I drove to and then hiked to the location.

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I am in the minority here. I have moved or archived caches, where poison oak spread into the area and was not an intended part of the hide. And I have one cache I am planning to move in the near future. In each case, they were intended to be family-friendly (or dog-friendly) and I saw no need to bring people to a patch of poison oak or have dogs run through the stuff. Not every cacher recognizes the stuff or knows if they might have an allergic reaction.

 

I have other caches where there is poison oak near the location, but it should not be a factor in making the find. I generally warn the cachers and tell people there is no need to go into anything poisonous. So my decision would be based upon how close the poisonous plants are to the cache and how much I wanted to bring people to that particular location with that particular style of hide. If I would ask myself "why" if I made the find, I generally think its time to rethink a cache that I have hidden.

 

I have no idea about poison ivy, but in my area, poison oak goes dormant in the winter, so I have found several caches placed in the middle of a patch that was not recognized it for what it was. In most cases, the owners decided to move the cache when they discovered the problem.

Edited by Erickson
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While you have given more than enough information and warning of what to expect, personally I'd move it. Now, I'm not saying YOU should move it. It's your hide. I had one run in with PI last year and it lasted way too long. It did go away, but I was miserable for weeks. I am now avoiding it like its poison ivy.

Edited by CanDMan47
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What is your goal with the cache?

 

Do you want people to get a smiley or do you want them to get a rash? Which one would make you smile more?

Could you place the cache where there isn't briars and poison ivy? If so, why do you want to keep it there?

Would YOU like to be looking for a cache and then have to go through thorns and deal with a large poison ivy plant? Is that what you consider fun?

 

Are you aware that, with the advent of pocket queries, there are people who end up in the field with no cache descriptions? How do you feel about those people getting into briars and poison ivy while seeking a congratulatory smilie from you?

 

It's all in how YOU feel aout YOUR cache. Personally, if I came across the cache you just described, I would curse your name and forever tell people of my unsatisfactory experience and use your name while doing so.

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Why would there even need to be adequate warning? I know it would be the kind thing to do but there's no rule requiring a warning. I would guess the majority of cachers who have a reaction may know what the plant looks like.

 

first because is the right thing to do as a responsible cacher and as a person in general

 

second because the list of "Attributes" has under "Hazards" an icon for all kinds of things, amongst them " Poison plants"

 

while adding "Attributes" to listings is not mandatory, this kind of attitude is exactly the reason i would like to see them be mandatory

 

as for the question of the OP, i agree with those that say to leave it where it is, you certainly did your part and warned people, its up to them to decide if they wish to attempt it or not

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If you are going to hunt caches that require you to actually leave the pavement and walk into the woods, you are going to occasionally come across briars, poison ivy, and (my 'favorite') chiggers. If one wishes to absolutely avoid these hazards, one should not venture off the sidewalk.

 

As long as the cache is rated correctly, I'd call it good.

Edited by sbell111
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What is your goal with the cache?

 

Do you want people to get a smiley or do you want them to get a rash? Which one would make you smile more?

Could you place the cache where there isn't briars and poison ivy? If so, why do you want to keep it there?

Would YOU like to be looking for a cache and then have to go through thorns and deal with a large poison ivy plant? Is that what you consider fun?

 

Are you aware that, with the advent of pocket queries, there are people who end up in the field with no cache descriptions? How do you feel about those people getting into briars and poison ivy while seeking a congratulatory smilie from you?

 

It's all in how YOU feel aout YOUR cache. Personally, if I came across the cache you just described, I would curse your name and forever tell people of my unsatisfactory experience and use your name while doing so.

 

If a person goes out in the woods they are likely to run into that stuff. If they go unprepared who's fault is it? They were warned. If they chose to ignore that warning they have no one but themselves to blame.

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If a person goes out in the woods they are likely to run into that stuff. If they go unprepared who's fault is it? They were warned. If they chose to ignore that warning they have no one but themselves to blame.

 

I have been thinking of putting a cache in my piranha pond. As long as the cachers recognize the priranhas (and you should not venture into a fish pond without this knowledge) or are warned not to stick their hand in it, then everything should be okay. Or it would not be my fault, particularly if they failed to read the warnings on the cache page because they foolishly were just going with the coordinates. That will teach them not to read my well-written descriptions. They have no one but themselves to blame.

 

I have found that many cachers are just gaining some experience in the woods. I am not sure I want to be the one to teach them about poisonous plants. Others may not recognize the plants during dormant stages, may not realize that they have a particularly strong reaction to plants, or may get a stronger reaction if something breaks the skin (like thorns). I have known people who ended up in the hospital because certain plants had not affected them in the past and they did not think anything would happen.

 

If I place a cache with a high terrain rating somebody can make a decision about whether they want to do it. It would be apparent as soon as one started hiking into the area. I certainly have caches that not everyone should do. And some might expose people to poison oak if they do not know how to walk around it, rather than through it. But, for me, these are different considerations than if the cache is off trail and in a location where it is likely someone will get into poisonous plants as part of the search - which may or may not be the case with the OP's cache.

 

It is not be a matter of fault. I would not consider it my fault if a cacher ran into a rattlesnake at one of my caches, tripped over a log, did not take enough water on the hike. or gets a tick bite. But I consider a cache to be an invitation. There are certain places I do not invite people -- in my area I have archived or moved caches where Sudden Oak Death has infected bays and oaks or poison oak spreads too close to the cache site. I could not think of any reason to ask people to go to that particular spot. Some people make different choices. People find all sorts of reasons, that I cannot fathom, to bring others to cache locations.

Edited by Erickson
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I think you've done your part. Keep an eye on the cache over the summer, and if the poison ivy gets so bad that you can't access the cache without coming into contact with it, think about finding a new spot. Otherwise, the warning is on the cache page and it's up to cachers to take care of themselves.

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I have to laugh at these responses.

 

"It's their fault if they don't know what they are doing"

 

Yeah, I think these people would put a cache in a Rattlesnake den covered in poison ivy/oak/sumac among brairs laced with flesh eating bacteria and just for kicks toss in a few dozen used hypodermic needles. Then rate it a 1.5 because the terrain is basically flat.

 

Come on people. What is with the "let people take their own risks" junk when it comes to poisonous plants, and other lesser seen hazards. Do you want your caches to be cool or just cool for you to know that someone ran your gauntlet?

 

This whole control issue is laughable.

 

Make your caches fun and many will love them. Make them a PIA and many will hate them or even avoid your caches all together. Of course it appears some want that anyhow.

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Since you were not aware of the poison ivy when you hid the cache, I would probably move it a few feet, if possible. Assuming you would prefer more people to find it. Likewise, I would not hide a cache IN green briar. Nastiest lily in existence! And I've had some experiences with green briar! I will hide, and have hidden, caches with posion ivy and green briar nearby. And I have bushwhacked through green briar to get to caches. The difference is in choosing how and where you want to bushwhack. Since the nasty case of allergic dermatitis, I try to avoid poison ivy, and would probably DNF the cache IN poison ivy.

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i would leave it. Cachers have the choice of dealing with it or leaving it alone. In PI season I always carry some TECNU products, long sleeved shirts and gloves. You might want to suggest some of these but i guess that would be soliciting.

That TECNU is some killer stuff! Seems like if I even stand down wind from poison ivy I end up covered in it. Since I found out about Tecnu, I just use it when I come out of the woods and haven't been bothered by it since. I am not a paid spokesperson, just a satisfied customer. <_<

 

As for the cache, I think you should leave it. Whenever you venture into the woods, you know there is probably going to be thorns, poison ivy, snakes,...etc. If you're not prepared to deal with that, then you should probably stay out of the woods.

 

I'm just going to go on and log a find on yours though, since I'm allergic to poison ivy and can't go near it. :laughing:

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