+Desert_Warrior Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 maybe someone can MARKWELL me.... I think I found a benchmark that is not listed. It looks like the usual USGS benchmark, but it doesn't show up on the database. It is located at N31 54.700 W106 31.036. It is there. I have touched it. It is set in a rock monument at the ranger station in the state park. Ideas, anyone??? Mike. Desert_Warrior (aka KD9KC). El Paso, Texas. Citizens of this land may own guns. Not to threaten their neighbors, but to ensure themselves of liberty and freedom. They are not assault weapons anymore... they are HOMELAND DEFENSE WEAPONS! Quote Link to comment
+catcher24 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 There is a USGS benchmark on the apron to the courthouse where I work. When I couldn't find it listed at NGS' site, I e-mailed them. They responded quickly with the explanation that the National Geodetic Survey (NGS) and the United States Geological Survey (USGS) each set their own bench marks, and these bench marks ARE NOT maintained in the same data base. Also, I think the coding is different. The NGS bench marks have two letters and four numbers; the USGS bench marks I believe generally have two letters, two numbers, two letters. I also contacted the USGS. In the reply I received it stated that the USGS identifies their benchmarks by quad names, and had I not included the quadrangle name, they could not have provided the information about the BM to me, that they only have hard copy data. This leads me to believe that the USGS BM's are NOT all in a computer database, like the NGS's are. That is also probably why this site has not done anything with USGS BM's - simply because there is no computer database to draw from. Hope this info helps answer your question. Catcher24 "You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Thats correct, the USGS info is available only on paper, as far as I know. NGS and USGS perform some similar tasks and set similar looking markers, but beyond that the connection between them is very slim, they are parts of dfferent branches of government, Commerce and Interior, respectively. Quote Link to comment
+catcher24 Posted March 16, 2003 Share Posted March 16, 2003 Tech - Thanks for the additional info. I got quick, albeit very short, replies from both the NGS and USGS. The bench marks do look remarkably similar. I think it would be cool if there were a place to log any located USGS BM's on this site, with coordinates or simply locations, so others could check them if desired. But I think Jeremy and the crew are probably doing well to stay afloat now, without any added requests! Catcher24 "You see, you spend a good deal of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." Jim Bouton Quote Link to comment
Z15 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 NGS has/had plans to incorporate the USGS marks in the database. They said it was dependent on funding and manpower as it was a major task to key in all the data. Since a lot of USGS control in not on the same datum as the NGS database, it presents problems in the software side of it and may require programming etc. The USGS marks not in the NGS data base on on 1927 and 1929 datums. They are 3rd order marks, of lower quality than what NGS performs work to. Reason was that USGS was mapping and that did not require anything better than 3rd order accuracy. So, some time in the future (and who knows when) you may find a lot more marks in the database but untill them the exists in old paper manuscript form. In order to find a marker you have to page thru reams of paper etc. Quote Link to comment
+DustyJacket Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 One difficulty is that some of the markers I've seen have no ID stamped into them. All the NGS markers in the database do have an ID stamped into them. Tough to track a BM that has no unique ID, just a location, I'd guess. DustyJacket ...If life was fair, a banana split would cure cancer. Quote Link to comment
+happycycler Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Well I guess that we could all volenteer to do the data entry of the USGS benchmarks in the 7 1/2 minute quad where we live. I bet that would give me more tolerance for the typos that I sometimes find in the data base. LOL Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 We can do it....Look how many that we have already recovered probably the most in the History of these matters..As you say we could mark each one with the proper insignia and aquire the data sets. I have asked the President through the www.usafreedomcorps.gov about talking to the Surveyor of the United States, I have also talked to the Surveyor of the United States.If through the freedom corps that this could be a volunteer activity,via www.Geocaching.com I have been doing this in my own area for about 7 years now and as 1 I can not do it all by myself...I need help to promote our sport as well as useing it for Homeland Defense and trying to get the data together in one place so that as WE as THE PEOPLE can have one place to locate these things that have been disorginized for some time now. I can not expound the need for this..... what do you think??????????????? WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails [This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on March 17, 2003 at 08:02 PM.] [This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on March 17, 2003 at 08:03 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+jeff35080 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 what do you think??????????????? I think it's a darn good idea! Where do we sign-up? Jeff http://www.StarsFellOnAlabama.com http://www.NotAChance.com If you hide it, they will come.... Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 In the Freedom corps web site it states that as volunteer's are to promote homeland Defense and Foster a Culture of Citizenship and Promote the Lands...I also log what I have been doing there as a volunteer, I was one of the 1st to join after his state of the Union address after 9/11. He called all Americans to Action by joining the Freedom Corps. I have been calling and talking with our Senator as to these matters as well as the Local Councils, County,City,State.I am doing all that I can to get this going but until Geocaching came along there was not that much interest in this,It seems like there has been an explosion as we saw in the past with the Founding of our Country when men women and children were eager to explore and expand the Nation we as a Citizen today have this opportunity put before us we just need to figure out how to use it for the best benifit of the People. I am Currently working with the First Responders and Fire and Rescue onteaching them the Technologies of the GPS System. I could go on forever on the Local Level but have no Idea how to get the wheels of GOVERNMENT to work faster. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
survey tech Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I would be interested to know just who is purporting to be "The Surveyor Of The United States" these days, seeing how that Office was abolished by law in 1925. Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I called the BLM in Reston Va. I asked to talk to the Head Surveyor at the Time,and was given Mr.Beaudin and Talked with him at great length about the Federal Survey system which is The (PLSS)Public Land Survey System.I was Inquireing about the Patents to the Lands that I own and the way it was to be Surveyed out.I have the Original (GLO)General Land Office Patents,Roosevelt and Taft, from the BLM in Reston Va.I believe this office is now called the GCDB. www.blm.gov/gcdb WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails Quote Link to comment
+DNova Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I'd also be interested in being a volunteer for data entry to computerize the NSGS records, and/or to recover long-lost BM's. Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 I talked to our Local Senators Representative today and asked him to see what we could do as a volunteer group to further the Work on the National Scale.He is aware of what we are doing here at Geocaching,He said he would see what could be done. I E-mailed the GCDB and lets see what they say..All I can do is try and get some oil on the gear to see if it will move. WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS *GEOTRYAGAIN* http://www.msnusers.com/MissouriTrails [This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on March 20, 2003 at 06:43 PM.] [This message was edited by Trailblazer # 1 on March 20, 2003 at 06:44 PM.] Quote Link to comment
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