Religious crap in a cache

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

Perhaps we would be able to have a more realistic discussion if you will define what "Family Friendy" means to you, or people in your area? It seems that the difference in the meaning of that term(to people in different areas) might be at or near the root of the issue?

[+narcissa]

 

I've highlighted the part I really want you to focus in on... Keep in mind that as a listing service, what they are primarily interested in is what is listed on their web servers, hence the posting... Notice the verb "posted" that is used in the language.

 

Trade items are not "posted" anywhere. Please explain to me how it is that you are applying this to trade items, because i'm just not seeing it.

 

The part you highlighted is prefaced with "for example."

 

"Geocaching" includes swag.

[+t4e]

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted.

 

now that should clear up any confusion..."caches" is the key word...i don't see "swag" mentioned anywhere, there is no way to control what people toss in the caches as swag, all we can do is remove any offensive material, and you should know what i mean by "offensive" without me spelling it out

[+narcissa]

 

Perhaps we would be able to have a more realistic discussion if you will define what "Family Friendy" means to you, or people in your area? It seems that the difference in the meaning of that term(to people in different areas) might be at or near the root of the issue?

 

I think it's more important to understand what Groundspeak defines as "family friendly."

 

As far as I'm concerned, "family friendly" means, in part, recognizing that different families have different values and beliefs and parents should be the ones to determine what values are taught to their children. Using a geocache to promote an agenda isn't, in my view, "family friendly."

 

But again, my interpretation of that phrase isn't particularly relevant - what matters is what Groundspeak intends by it.

[+narcissa]

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted.

 

now that should clear up any confusion..."caches" is the key word...i don't see "swag" mentioned anywhere, there is no way to control what people toss in the caches as swag, all we can do is remove any offensive material, and you should know what i mean by "offensive" without me spelling it out

 

"Geocaching" is mentioned in a general sense. To me, that includes swag.

 

But you're right that there's very little, other than self-policing, that can be done to prevent inappropriate materials from getting into geocaches.

[+thedeadpirate]

I predict days if not weeks of divisive bickering and name-calling still to come.

 

I choose to call you George. I'll work on the divisive bickering later.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

Perhaps we would be able to have a more realistic discussion if you will define what "Family Friendy" means to you, or people in your area? It seems that the difference in the meaning of that term(to people in different areas) might be at or near the root of the issue?

 

I think it's more important to understand what Groundspeak defines as "family friendly."

 

As far as I'm concerned, "family friendly" means, in part, recognizing that different families have different values and beliefs and parents should be the ones to determine what values are taught to their children. Using a geocache to promote an agenda isn't, in my view, "family friendly."

 

But again, my interpretation of that phrase isn't particularly relevant - what matters is what Groundspeak intends by it.

Well, as far as I know, Groundspeak has left it vague on purpose, so whatever the standards are in a given area will define what is "Family Friendly" swag. Since it's up to each of us to define the term for ourselves(within reason) we will never agree on the defintion. Have a nice day.

[+Rustynails]

 

There's no personal attacks.. You really do seem to have a comprehension problem.

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

That I don't find your arguments persuasive is not a comprehension problem.

 

You will get attacked here.

[+mtn-man]

 

There's no personal attacks.. You really do seem to have a comprehension problem.

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

That I don't find your arguments persuasive is not a comprehension problem.

 

You will get attacked here.

At this point, only by a moderator.

[+thedeadpirate]

Placing a geocache with the intent of promoting an agenda is against the guidelines. Seriously, are you going to actually read the guidelines or just make it up as you go?

Are you really trying to claim that using somebody else's geocache to promote an agenda is in keeping with the spirit of the guidelines? Really?

 

One tract does not a hijacking of a cache make.

 

It comes down to intent. If your intent is to convert someone to your religion or get someone to vote for your favourite candidate, that's an agenda. If your intent is to get someone to buy your stuff, that's an agenda. If your intent is to leave a decent piece of swag that someone else might want, that's not an agenda.

 

How about this? My wife goes to conferences all the time. I fill most of my caches for free with the swag she brings home. She brings home some really cool stuff. Thing is, it all has vendor's advertising on it.

 

By your statement above, it's cool because the intent is to leave a decent piece of swag.

 

McToys would also be cool because the intent is to leave a decent piece of swag. (we're not discussing whether it is decent, just the intent)

 

By the same token, if I were to leave a flashlight with a naked lady on it then it's ok, because my intent was to leave a decent piece of swag.

 

No, you say?

 

Ahhhhh, because that piece of swag actually violates the Cache Contents section of the guidelines, regardless of my intent.

 

That section does not include the word agenda anywhere. Oddly enough the very next section does and it is very clear it is discussing the cache itself and the owner's intentions, not what some random finder may or may not place in the cache.

 

1- Trackable items do not follow the same agenda guidelines that caches do.

2- Narcissa wasn't talking about trackables. She's talking about caches.

 

These two things don't change if you agree with her or not.

ok true BUT it was placed in a cache! and there by the cache was used to promote an agenda- no differance than the 'tract' mentioned by the OP

 

Neither magically turn the cache into an agenda pushing cache.

 

** gotta go ahead and hit post. The thread keeps expanding as I'm reading **

[+thedeadpirate]

Peanut Allergy Geocoins,

 

Off-topic, but I didn't realize there were Peanut Allergy geocoins. When I read that, I couldn't help envisioning a kid grabbing that coin, playing with it while eating a peanut butter sandwhich, and then placing it in the next cache.

[+Semper Questio]

I suppose if "family friendly" is used as a euphemism. I am Canadian and I'm not always up-to-date on which terms have been co-opted to mean something entirely different in the American vernacular. Perhaps this is part of the confusion. Political or religious pamphlets certainly wouldn't qualify as "family friendly" around here.

 

No, she's right. Political or religious pamphlets can be very dangerous! Some kid might make them into spitballs and hit some other kid in the eye!

 

And think of the paper cuts!

[hoosier guy]

How many others besides me are considering continuing caching while abandoning the forums? If every discussion is going to descend into mean spirited sniping is it really worth the time?

Hang in there, the worst offenders will tire of it and move on... sorta like having a cache maggot in your area, just wait her out and she'll go away.

 

This seems like good advice. I do want to learn from other cachers and get to know some of y'all

[+bittsen]

And here I thought this thread was about fake pope poop.

[+Morgan's Marauders]

 

If you were an atheist and created a cool little spaghetti monster personal trade item that you put into caches, how would you feel if I deemed your item to be offensive because it conflicted with my personal worldview and removed it from any cache I came across?

 

I am an atheist, and I don't put atheism-related materials or objects into caches because I don't believe in using geocaches to impose my worldview on others. If I noticed atheism materials in a cache, I would likely remove them.

 

Okay, but please don't remove the tracts extolling the virtues of the Cult of the Blue Bow. That would just be going too far...

 

ALL HAIL THE POWER OF THE BLUE BOW!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't believe I read this whole thread to make sure no one posted that before I did!

[+Semper Questio]

 

If you were an atheist and created a cool little spaghetti monster personal trade item that you put into caches, how would you feel if I deemed your item to be offensive because it conflicted with my personal worldview and removed it from any cache I came across?

 

I am an atheist, and I don't put atheism-related materials or objects into caches because I don't believe in using geocaches to impose my worldview on others. If I noticed atheism materials in a cache, I would likely remove them.

 

Okay, but please don't remove the tracts extolling the virtues of the Cult of the Blue Bow. That would just be going too far...

 

ALL HAIL THE POWER OF THE BLUE BOW!!!

 

I can't believe I read this whole thread to make sure no one posted that before I did!

 

And hamsters. We can't forget the hamsters.

[+Semper Questio]

 

And hamsters. We can't forget the hamsters.

 

OK. As soon as I hit the "Add Reply" button I had a visual of a hamster in a Pope hat, the red shoes, and vestments. Who's gonna photochop that?

[+Morgan's Marauders]

Closest I could find...

Edited March 24, 2010 by Morgan's Marauders

[+Semper Questio]

{image snip}

 

 

Wouldn't that be the "Catican"

[+narcissa]

 

This seems like good advice. I do want to learn from other cachers and get to know some of y'all

 

You might want to reconsider telling people to shut up when you don't like the discussion.

 

I find it a little bit sad that some people in this forum seem to insist on carrying a grudge from one thread to another. I often find myself disagreeing with someone in one thread while agreeing with them in another.

 

We're all people who love this game. I might not agree with everything everybody says, but I think there's value in discussing these things. Strong opinions mean that people care - and that's good.

 

Some forum regulars like to think that they should have the last word on everything and get frustrated when topics come up over and over again. I think that repetition is a sign that geocaching is growing, and there are new people taking an interest in these touchy subjects. Maybe they weren't around the first fifty times the subject was discussed, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have an opportunity to work through these ideas.

[+brslk]

 

This seems like good advice. I do want to learn from other cachers and get to know some of y'all

 

You might want to reconsider telling people to shut up when you don't like the discussion.

 

I find it a little bit sad that some people in this forum seem to insist on carrying a grudge from one thread to another. I often find myself disagreeing with someone in one thread while agreeing with them in another.

 

We're all people who love this game. I might not agree with everything everybody says, but I think there's value in discussing these things. Strong opinions mean that people care - and that's good.

 

Some forum regulars like to think that they should have the last word on everything and get frustrated when topics come up over and over again. I think that repetition is a sign that geocaching is growing, and there are new people taking an interest in these touchy subjects. Maybe they weren't around the first fifty times the subject was discussed, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have an opportunity to work through these ideas.

 

Ditto but, could you quote where he/she told anyone to shut up? I have not read this thread from the beginning.

[+Snoogans]

Should these be CITO'd from caches for promoting an agenda?

 

 

I mean, someone might read that and realise it might actually be wrong to tryyy to define the undefinable in the delusional effort to exclude nonmembers of their belief from their version of heaven.

 

Oh dang, now I've polluted the thread. My bad.

 

Greg, please banninate me from this thread as pennance.

[+mtn-man]

 

This seems like good advice. I do want to learn from other cachers and get to know some of y'all

 

You might want to reconsider telling people to shut up when you don't like the discussion.

 

I find it a little bit sad that some people in this forum seem to insist on carrying a grudge from one thread to another. I often find myself disagreeing with someone in one thread while agreeing with them in another.

 

We're all people who love this game. I might not agree with everything everybody says, but I think there's value in discussing these things. Strong opinions mean that people care - and that's good.

 

Some forum regulars like to think that they should have the last word on everything and get frustrated when topics come up over and over again. I think that repetition is a sign that geocaching is growing, and there are new people taking an interest in these touchy subjects. Maybe they weren't around the first fifty times the subject was discussed, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have an opportunity to work through these ideas.

He never told anyone to shut up. He said he was thinking about leaving the forums. With people putting words like that in his mouth, do you blame him? Perhaps you should actually read the post. Go back and read them again. I know he messed up a quote on one of his posts, but he even says he didn't tell anyone to shut up.

Never told anyone to "shut up" only that I was considering ignoring the forums.

Some of you are so wound up that you are reading what you want to read. Back it down or, as I have said, I am more than willing to assist in helping you understand the forum guidelines regarding respect of your fellow community members.

 

hoosier guy, don't go away, just avoid the people that thrive on angst. There are plenty of fun topics out there and people willing to help instead of put people down. The people snarking at each other in this topic are vocal, but they are not what the majority of geocachers are like.

[+Snoogans]

LOL LOL LOL

 

Careful, swallow whatever you have in your mouth before you read the bolded print....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"“If God dwells inside us like some people say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas, because that's what He's getting”"

 

Ok, maybe not to geocaching, but definitely could apply to the forums.

 

Gotta love Jack Handy.... I may put that on my next Agnostic coin.

[+Sioneva]

ALL HAIL THE POWER OF THE BLUE BOW!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't believe I read this whole thread to make sure no one posted that before I did!

 

You have seen the light. There are donuts and beer reserved for you.

[+Shop99er]

I read this first few posts of this at lunch today, and thought "ok, that's that".

 

Looks like I missed a real donneybrook.....I hate it when I have to go do my job....

[+thedeadpirate]

I can't believe I read this whole thread to make sure no one posted that before I did!

 

(come to GA and we can drink a cup of coffee while I teach you how to use the search tool)

[+WRASTRO]

I really don't worry much about the cache contents as long as they don't physically hurt me or make me sick (physically). If something is obviously broken, moldy , etc. I will trash it out but I simply choose not to assign my beliefs and values to any of the rest of the cache contents. I am not the cache contents police, nor do I want to be. This philosophy has helped me enjoy caching for over six years and I am certain it will work going forward as well. YMMV.

[+brslk]

I really don't worry much about the cache contents as long as they don't physically hurt me or make me sick (physically). If something is obviously broken, moldy , etc. I will trash it out but I simply choose not to assign my beliefs and values to any of the rest of the cache contents. I am not the cache contents police, nor do I want to be. This philosophy has helped me enjoy caching for over six years and I am certain it will work going forward as well. YMMV.

 

Careful !!! that makes too much sense!

[+traildad]

 

Can we please remember that this is an open, family sport?

I don't get the family sport comment. Do you consider religion somehow anti-family?

[+WRASTRO]

I really don't worry much about the cache contents as long as they don't physically hurt me or make me sick (physically). If something is obviously broken, moldy , etc. I will trash it out but I simply choose not to assign my beliefs and values to any of the rest of the cache contents. I am not the cache contents police, nor do I want to be. This philosophy has helped me enjoy caching for over six years and I am certain it will work going forward as well. YMMV.

 

Careful !!! that makes too much sense!

My humble apologies.

[+Chrysalides]

And here I thought this thread was about fake pope poop.

Who said anything about fake?

 

Anyway, I've lost interest in this thread, now that the 4 p.m. central time deadline has passed and we're not going to see Castle Mischief eat his shoe. And all the nearby donut stores are closed now. Life is cruel sometimes.

[+brslk]

And here I thought this thread was about fake pope poop.

Who said anything about fake?

 

Anyway, I've lost interest in this thread, now that the 4 p.m. central time deadline has passed and we're not going to see Castle Mischief eat his shoe. And all the nearby donut stores are closed now. Life is cruel sometimes.

 

I'm pretty hungry... it's late... if you pay me enough i will eat a shoe for money.

[Chumpo]

This is one of those threads that gives my scroll wheel a workout.

Blabbity blab blab ect... Until I saw this!

Tee hee!

 

 

How DARE you alter an image of Bruce Campbell! This is unforgivable!!!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Peanut Allergy Geocoins,

 

Off-topic, but I didn't realize there were Peanut Allergy geocoins. When I read that, I couldn't help envisioning a kid grabbing that coin, playing with it while eating a peanut butter sandwhich, and then placing it in the next cache.

Yes, Haha, even some folks in the geocoin forums were surprised. It was a personal coin made by a family that includes a child with an extreme allergy. Rudely enough most of us that know about it became aware when someone started a thread titled roughly "How is THIS a geocoin". The simple answer was that someone made it, therefore it's a geocoin.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

And think of the paper cuts!

No danger of paper cuts...tracts are notoriously dull.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

This seems like good advice. I do want to learn from other cachers and get to know some of y'all

 

You might want to reconsider telling people to shut up when you don't like the discussion.

 

I find it a little bit sad that some people in this forum seem to insist on carrying a grudge from one thread to another. I often find myself disagreeing with someone in one thread while agreeing with them in another.

 

We're all people who love this game. I might not agree with everything everybody says, but I think there's value in discussing these things. Strong opinions mean that people care - and that's good.

 

Some forum regulars like to think that they should have the last word on everything and get frustrated when topics come up over and over again. I think that repetition is a sign that geocaching is growing, and there are new people taking an interest in these touchy subjects. Maybe they weren't around the first fifty times the subject was discussed, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have an opportunity to work through these ideas.

But, may I have your permission to tell people to "Stuff It"? No one told anyone to shut up, so if you continue to repeat that, you're only going to further the image that you either are not reading what people say, or you cannot understand it. You seem to be inteligent enough, so I can only presume that you are responding without reading the statements first, or you are porposely distorting what people say in order to give yourself another argument to make.

[+Jackalgirl]

Okay, having slogged through this thread, I see two main arguments:

 

Argument #1: there is no actual guideline that prevents people from using swag (or trackables) to promote an agenda. What's against the guidelines is publishing a cache that promotes an agenda (e.g., "Pat's Low Pants Awareness Cache" "Visit this cache and give $5 to the National Council for Low Pants Awareness via this handy link"). Putting materials that promote an agenda into a cache does not mean that the cache is now promoting the agenda(s) promoted by the swag contained in the cache.

 

Argument #2: putting agenda-related swag/trackables into a cache will convert the cache into an agenda-promoting cache and get the cache owner in trouble.

 

Side argument: Geocaching is supposed to be light and fun, per Groundspeak guidelines. So caches can't promote an agenda and, by the extension of this particular agenda requirement, swag/trackables should also not promote agendas.

 

Am I correct in understanding that these are the major points I'm seeing?

 

If so, what I'm seeing is a distinction in arguments: some people are arguing for/against religious matter in caches from a philosophic standpoint (should it be permissible?), and some people are arguing for/against it from a technical standpoint (it is/isn't permissible per the guidelines).

 

As a point regarding the "it's not permissible per the guidelines" camp, I'd just like to point out that if the argument were true, there'd be evidence.

 

For example, geocaching's been around a while. Has there ever been a cache that was archived, disabled, or in which the CO otherwise got into trouble with Groundspeak because of the agenda swag other people were putting into it? I'm not talking about someone who, say, archived his or her own cache, having been offended at what visitors were putting into it, or caches that were disabled or archived because they had stuff in them clearly against the cache contents guidelines. I'm talking about a cache archived (by Groundspeak) because someone had put a religious pamphlet in it.

 

Has this happened? I am guessing that it has not, but would be very interested in hearing otherwise.

 

Also, it's very common for trackables, in particular, to promote agendas. I think that this is a major problem for the "the cache's contents can give the cache an agenda in the eyes of Groundspeak" argument. If it were true that a cache's contents determines its perceived agenda*, then I don't think that Geocachers for Christ geocoins, or Breast Cancer Awareness geocoins, or Sea Shepherd geocoins, or any of the myriad of geocoins (not to mention Travel Bugs) that very obviously promote agendas would have be approved in the first place.

 

This also kind of puts a hole in the "all swag is required to be light/fun/agenda-free by Groundspeak" argument; if Groundspeak is approving this agenda-stuff, then obviously Groundspeak is not mandating that it be free from agendas.

 

*Note that you can what-if this to death. What if the CO doesn't give his/her cache an agenda, but visits it every Pasta-day to fill it to the brim with FSM tracts? I'm not talking about special situations like this. I'm talking about cachers putting agenda-related items in caches.

 

Let me reiterate that I'm not talking about the philosophic aspects of this (e.g, should people leave agenda swag/trackables? If so, what agendas are acceptable and which ones aren't? Is it possible to make a distinction? When we bring children into the argument and argue for agenda distinction, are we abrogating the role of parent from the child's actual parents?). I'm talking about the actual technical (or factual) Groundspeak requirements -- what Groundspeak actually requires with regards to the guidelines.

 

Let me close by saying that I firmly believe that Groundspeak does not have any actual guidelines that prohibit either swag or trackables from having agendas. I think it's clear from the evidence that Groundspeak permits it. I am guessing that few, if not no, caches have been actually archived by Groundspeak because of swag/trackable content, beyond those that might have been disabled or archived because the contents were actually in violation of specific content guidelines. So, in short, I think that religious tracts in caches are permissible per the guidelines, and that the argument that they are not should be put to rest in favor of philosophic arguments.

[+The Blorenges]

What an excellent, well-reasoned and quietly stated post (#239) from Jackalgirl...

 

Thank you

 

(If only it could rest there.)

 

MrsB

[+Jackalgirl]

Thanks, Mrs. B!

 

I also wanted to mention that narcissa advanced the argument:

 

"Travel bugs and geocoins are different from swag"

 

I'd like to state that I disagree with this. The technical point being argued is that a cache's contents can convey an agenda to the cache (per the guidelines).

 

There really is no substantial difference between travelers and swag in terms of either type of item's ability to be connected to an agenda. In other words, I don't think it makes much sense to say that swag can convey an agenda to a cache by simply being in the cache but that a traveler cannot. Both types of items are meant to be found and taken (it's just that you're supposed to move travelers and do not have the option to keep them).

 

Again, though, if this is not true, then there should be some evidence -- in other words, actual caches that have been shut down, or threatened to be shut down, by Groundspeak because religious materials were found in them. Are there any?

 

With regards to agendas: I can't find the post, but someone talked about leaving Sweet Potato tracts in caches as trade for religious swag. I think that this is brilliant. It ultimately boils down to this question: what gives you the right to decide that something is inappropriate* and therefore the right to treat it as trash? The answer is: you don't have that right. It might be your philosophy and opinion, and you may decide to do that, but it is your decision; it is not a right nor is it mandated by Groundspeak's policies and, in fact, you are in violation of the trade up/trade even tradition.

 

*When that something is not obviously prohibited (e.g., guns, knives, food, etc) or illegal (e.g., pedophilia-related items, drugs, etc).

 

But the brilliant Sweet Potato solution is that you don't have to trash stuff you don't like. Trade it for something else of equal or greater value and be done with it.

 

I'm off to go find some good circulars about dental hygiene. ; )

[+Rustynails]

 

Can we please remember that this is an open, family sport?

I don't get the family sport comment. Do you consider religion somehow anti-family?

 

Family's have been split over religion. People argue, fight and kill over religion. This forum is a one good example. Keep religion out of geocaching and save it for your worship day. Now let the attacks begin.

[Trader Rick & Rosie]

Actually, there is no such thing as "religious crap". sorry!

[+Castle Mischief]

I don't really agree with narcissa's posting style, but for those in this thread that seem to be unable to get around that and read what she's posted... her issue with religious fliers/tracts/pamphlets is due to her interpretation (right or wrong) of the agenda guideline. There is no agenda guideline regarding trackables. Those of you that keep throwing trackables into the discussion are only contributing to the derailment of the thread via reductio ad absurdum- which is a big Latin phrase that basically means taking the opposing argument to an irrational conclusion and then arguing against that conclusion.

 

 

Narcissa, I have a PM that I'm going to send to you that I won't post here because I think it would offend the religious folks and only fan the fire.

[hayemaker]

 

Can we please remember that this is an open, family sport?

I don't get the family sport comment. Do you consider religion somehow anti-family?

 

Family's have been split over religion. People argue, fight and kill over religion. This forum is a one good example. Keep religion out of geocaching and save it for your worship day. Now let the attacks begin.

 

Families ahve been split over sports. People argue, fight and kill over sports. Soccer is a good example. Whats your point? Should all sports related swag now be considdered inopproproiate?

 

I only worship on days that end in Y.

[+t4e]

Thanks, Mrs. B!

 

The technical point being argued is that a cache's contents can convey an agenda to the cache (per the guidelines).

 

 

nowhere in the guidelines is there reference to solicitation through "cache contents"....only through cache listing

 

Caches that Solicit

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Cache Contents

 

Use your common sense in most cases. Explosives, fireworks, ammo, lighters, knives (including pocket knives and multi-tools), drugs, alcohol or other illicit material shouldn't be placed in a cache. As always respect the local laws. Geocaching is a family activity and cache contents should be suitable for all ages.

 

Food items are always a bad idea. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because food items (or items that smell like food) are in the cache. Even the presence of mint flavored dental floss has led to destruction of one cache.

 

If the original cache contents list any of the above items or other questionable items, or if a cache is reported to have the questionable items, the cache may be disabled, and the owner of the cache will be contacted and asked to remove the questionable items before the cache is enabled.

[+t4e]

Actually, there is no such thing as "religious crap". sorry!

 

of course there is, same as "One Person's Trash Is Another Person's Treasure"

[+Rustynails]

 

Can we please remember that this is an open, family sport?

I don't get the family sport comment. Do you consider religion somehow anti-family?

 

Family's have been split over religion. People argue, fight and kill over religion. This forum is a one good example. Keep religion out of geocaching and save it for your worship day. Now let the attacks begin.

 

Families ahve been split over sports. People argue, fight and kill over sports. Soccer is a good example. Whats your point? Should all sports related swag now be considdered inopproproiate?

 

I only worship on days that end in Y.

 

You need to calm down. You can neither post or spell correctly because of your anger .

[hayemaker]

Not angry. Just making a point. As for the spelling. I am sorry I am using my phone and keep hitting extra buttons.

[+mtn-man]

Posting this one more time. I am not joking.

OK kids, reality check time.

 

You people need to back it down a few notches. Yes, there are most certainly personal attacks flying from all angles. You need to start treating each other with an ounce of respect or I am going to start tossing people out. Period. What I have been reading the past couple of days in a couple of topics is just pitiful. There are ways to get your point across without insults and jabs and trying to out zing each other.

 

Take no prisoners time. Try me if you wish.

[+Rustynails]

Not angry. Just making a point. As for the spelling. I am sorry I am using my phone and keep hitting extra buttons.

 

Just so there’s no misunderstanding, it was just an observation. Not an attack. I knew someone would misunderstand.