Religious crap in a cache

[sabrefan7]

I've read through this entire train-wreck, and all I got was this:

1) Bacon flavoured beer.

2) Something about a pony biting a donut, or a donut biting a pony, or something.

3) Oh yeah, and no-one agrees on religion. News at 11...

 

A donut biting a pony would be something to see...

 

... but only if it were made of bacon.

 

The pony or the donut? I'm getting SO confused.

 

STEP RIGHT UP!!!! GET YOUR TICKETS!!!!! POPCORN, GET YOUR POPCORN!!!!!!!

 

Is that pony-flavored popcorn, donut-flavored popcorn, or beer-flavored popcorn? Inquiring minds want to know!

Beer flavored popcorn? Does it come in a microwave bag or Jiffy Pop stove top?

[+narcissa]

 

7 was the largest font size I could pick... Please take your own advice!!!!

 

Can you please show me where I've told someone to get out of the forum? I often disagree with people, but it's really not my thing to tell someone else to get off the forum.

 

Or are you taking my comment out of context and using it to tell me to shut up because you disagree with me about something else? If so, that's pretty sad.

[+Sioneva]

lean close (whisper: i have all three burt only for platinum members. shhhh!)

 

You smell funny. But I'll take all three!

[+Sioneva]

 

7 was the largest font size I could pick... Please take your own advice!!!!

 

Can you please show me where I've told someone to get out of the forum? I often disagree with people, but it's really not my thing to tell someone else to get off the forum.

 

Or are you taking my comment out of context and using it to tell me to shut up because you disagree with me about something else? If so, that's pretty sad.

 

I think he was telling you to ignore what you find annoying in the caches, the way you were telling that other poster to ignore what they find annoying in the forums.

 

But I could be wrong.

[+narcissa]

 

ok what about the travel bug i found the other day that was dedicated to diabeties awareness? should i have just thrown it out because it promotes a charitable agenda? your logic is warped

 

As far as I know, travel bugs aren't subject to rules about agendas the way geocaches are. I haven't suggested that anyone remove these game pieces from caches and I strongly resent your implication that I have said anything like this. I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with me, but strawman arguments have no place in a civilized discussion.

 

Besides, the diabetes travel bugs are directly affiliated with Groundspeak. Similarly, the Jeep tbs.

[+narcissa]

 

I think he was telling you to ignore what you find annoying in the caches, the way you were telling that other poster to ignore what they find annoying in the forums.

 

But I could be wrong.

 

That's a bit weird. I don't remove items because they're annoying, I remove them because they promote an agenda and aren't in keeping with the family-friendly spirit of the game.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Hey, I just found this fun thread

 

 

 

More sensible cachers?

 

Or more inappropriate items?

 

Or more sensible cachers in inappropriate items?

 

Or more sensible cachers removing the inappropriate items they're in?

 

 

Yep, I'm getting into the swing of this topic now!

 

*MrsB goes off to work up a good head of angstness*

More Keystones!!

[+Sioneva]

 

I think he was telling you to ignore what you find annoying in the caches, the way you were telling that other poster to ignore what they find annoying in the forums.

 

But I could be wrong.

 

That's a bit weird. I don't remove items because they're annoying, I remove them because they promote an agenda and aren't in keeping with the family-friendly spirit of the game.

 

Yeah, whatever. Donut?

[+chachi44089]

I've read through this entire train-wreck, and all I got was this:

1) Bacon flavoured beer.

2) Something about a pony biting a donut, or a donut biting a pony, or something.

3) Oh yeah, and no-one agrees on religion. News at 11...

 

A donut biting a pony would be something to see...

 

... but only if it were made of bacon.

 

The pony or the donut? I'm getting SO confused.

 

STEP RIGHT UP!!!! GET YOUR TICKETS!!!!! POPCORN, GET YOUR POPCORN!!!!!!!

 

Is that pony-flavored popcorn, donut-flavored popcorn, or beer-flavored popcorn? Inquiring minds want to know!

Beer flavored popcorn? Does it come in a microwave bag or Jiffy Pop stove top?

I am willing to bite a pony for a bacon donut,then trade half the donut for a bacon flavored beer.Any takers?

[+narcissa]

 

It's been my experiance that people that use this line are using "open-minded, progressive thinkers" as code words for something else.

 

 

Indeed. The actual definitions for "open-minded" and "progressive" have absolutely nothing to do with the traits that R.O.N. is applying to them.

[+StarBrand]

....

I remove them because they promote an agenda and aren't in keeping with the family-friendly spirit of the game.

 

Well if we use 'family friendly' as criteria - any attempt to save anybody's immortal soul would easily qualify and I should be filling the caches with any item I can find to further that goal.

 

Perspective my friend - its all a matter of perspective. You have made yours clear.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

I am against anyone using geocaches to promote any kind of religious, anti-religious, political, charitable, or commercial agendas.

 

Not arguing with you, just wondering where you stand on things like

 

Diabetes TBs,

Look Twice Geocoins,

Fallen Heroes Geocoins,

Peanut Allergy Geocoins,

Red, Yellow, Green, Purple, White, Etc...Jeep TBs,

Watershed Geocoins,

Etc., Etc., Etc...

 

Do you feel any differently when the items are Trackable Travelers?

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Find out what church is propogating these tracts and go to their services. In the middle of a sermon stand up and loudly start talking about Geocaching (or whatever tickes your fancy).

It may not get the point across but it can be fun to get bounced from a church.

I'll bring the video Camera!!

[+narcissa]

 

Well if we use 'family friendly' as criteria - any attempt to save anybody's immortal soul would easily qualify and I should be filling the caches with any item I can find to further that goal.

 

Perspective my friend - its all a matter of perspective. You have made yours clear.

 

I suppose if "family friendly" is used as a euphemism. I am Canadian and I'm not always up-to-date on which terms have been co-opted to mean something entirely different in the American vernacular. Perhaps this is part of the confusion. Political or religious pamphlets certainly wouldn't qualify as "family friendly" around here.

Edited March 23, 2010 by narcissa

[+narcissa]

 

I am against anyone using geocaches to promote any kind of religious, anti-religious, political, charitable, or commercial agendas.

 

Not arguing with you, just wondering where you stand on things like

 

Diabetes TBs,

Look Twice Geocoins,

Fallen Heroes Geocoins,

Peanut Allergy Geocoins,

Red, Yellow, Green, Purple, White, Etc...Jeep TBs,

Watershed Geocoins,

Etc., Etc., Etc...

 

Do you feel any differently when the items are Trackable Travelers?

 

I don't think my personal feelings about those items are relevant. The guidelines don't address them. Groundspeak has criteria about what can be printed on geocoins that have GC.com tracking numbers, but they don't exclude religious or political messages as far as I know.

[+Sioneva]

I suppose if "family friendly" is used as a euphemism. I am Canadian and I'm not always up-to-date on which terms have been co-opted to mean something entirely different in the American vernacular. Perhaps this is part of the confusion. Political or religious pamphlets certainly wouldn't qualify as "family friendly" around here.

 

No, she's right. Political or religious pamphlets can be very dangerous! Some kid might make them into spitballs and hit some other kid in the eye!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Using a geocache to promote an agenda is against the guidelines.

If you think that's the meaning of the guidelines, then your reading comprehension might be a little lacking, no wonder you can't understand what anyone is telling you.

 

Using a the text of a geocache listing on the Geocaching.com website to promote an agenda is against the guidelines.

[ad5smith]

 

ok what about the travel bug i found the other day that was dedicated to diabeties awareness? should i have just thrown it out because it promotes a charitable agenda? your logic is warped

 

As far as I know, travel bugs aren't subject to rules about agendas the way geocaches are. I haven't suggested that anyone remove these game pieces from caches and I strongly resent your implication that I have said anything like this. I don't have any problem with people disagreeing with me, but strawman arguments have no place in a civilized discussion.

 

Besides, the diabetes travel bugs are directly affiliated with Groundspeak. Similarly, the Jeep tbs.

narcissa, i apologize, i wasn't implicating that. my bad my point isn't clear which is my fault.

 

i believe the OP was about religious material (which promote an agenda) so where is the line drawn? some items in a cache are going to be promoting an agenda, while i.have no issue agendas being promoted, i dislike inconsistancy. promoting an agenda is still promoting an agenda, whether it is religious, political, charitable, or otherwise. and the issue is about swag not caches

[+narcissa]

Using a geocache to promote an agenda is against the guidelines.

If you think that's the meaning of the guidelines, then your reading comprehension might be a little lacking, no wonder you can't understand what anyone is telling you.

 

Using a the text of a geocache listing on the Geocaching.com website to promote an agenda is against the guidelines.

 

The personal attacks are unnecessary - you can address my points without using insults.

 

The guidelines address religious agendas, and also address cache contents. Filling a geocache with literature for the purpose of influencing other people's ideas *is* using the geocache as a platform for an agenda. As the guidelines state:

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

If or how this might be enforced is questionable, but that's what the guidelines say.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

If your intent is to leave a decent piece of swag that someone else might want, that's not an agenda.

 

Well there we have it...nothing more to be said on the topic. You're not going to pretend to know the motivation of anyone who left one of these offending items...are you?? For the people who left them, they are exactly "a decent piece of swag that someone else might want". End of discussion. Just because YOU don't want it or YOU don't think it's a decent piece of swag has no bearing. Thank you for proving everyone's point.

[+narcissa]

 

narcissa, i apologize, i wasn't implicating that. my bad my point isn't clear which is my fault.

 

i believe the OP was about religious material (which promote an agenda) so where is the line drawn? some items in a cache are going to be promoting an agenda, while i.have no issue agendas being promoted, i dislike inconsistancy. promoting an agenda is still promoting an agenda, whether it is religious, political, charitable, or otherwise. and the issue is about swag not caches

 

Travel bugs and geocoins are different from swag.

[+narcissa]

If your intent is to leave a decent piece of swag that someone else might want, that's not an agenda.

 

Well there we have it...nothing more to be said on the topic. You're not going to pretend to know the motivation of anyone who left one of these offending items...are you?? For the people who left them, they are exactly "a decent piece of swag that someone else might want". End of discussion. Just because YOU don't want it or YOU don't think it's a decent piece of swag has no bearing. Thank you for proving everyone's point.

 

If it's a piece of literature, as opposed to some sort of trinket, the agenda is obvious.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Using a geocache to promote an agenda is against the guidelines.

If you think that's the meaning of the guidelines, then your reading comprehension might be a little lacking, no wonder you can't understand what anyone is telling you.

 

Using a the text of a geocache listing on the Geocaching.com website to promote an agenda is against the guidelines.

 

The personal attacks are unnecessary - you can address my points without using insults.

 

The guidelines address religious agendas, and also address cache contents. Filling a geocache with literature for the purpose of influencing other people's ideas *is* using the geocache as a platform for an agenda. As the guidelines state:

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

If or how this might be enforced is questionable, but that's what the guidelines say.

 

There's no personal attacks.. You really do seem to have a comprehension problem.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

How many others besides me are considering continuing caching while abandoning the forums? If every discussion is going to descend into mean spirited sniping is it really worth the time?

 

I don't really see how a "shut up and geocache" kind of comment is productive in any way. If you don't like the tone of the post, there are better ways to address it, or you can simply ignore it.

 

I don't always agree with everyone who comments, but I do think that the people who are in here arguing/discussing are people who care about the game, and there is value in that. That's why I try to avoid making personal attacks - I think discussion, even when it's heated, is good for the growth of the game.

 

There is no value in telling people to stop talking. Your comment is far more offensive than many of the insults that have been tossed around. You are trying to stifle an open discussion because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

 

I just got back from a whirlwind trip to Arizona where I hiked for miles in the desert to find geocaches. I spent yesterday flying home, and today it's raining and I'm tired. Stuff it.

 

Is that what you really read in that post?? Here we go again with the comprehension...or do you just say that so stir things up?? I think that there are a good many people are in here just to argue, rather than anything to do with the game.

[+chachi44089]

Would a religeous paper really fall under the catagory of swag?Seems the same as putting in a paper that says "vote for so and so for mayor".Just a question.

[+narcissa]

 

There's no personal attacks.. You really do seem to have a comprehension problem.

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

That I don't find your arguments persuasive is not a comprehension problem.

[+narcissa]

Would a religeous paper really fall under the catagory of swag?Seems the same as putting in a paper that says "vote for so and so for mayor".Just a question.

 

It is the same. Neither one belongs in a cache.

 

And if someone's actually left it as a trade, that's even worse.

[+ReadyOrNot]

 

There's no personal attacks.. You really do seem to have a comprehension problem.

 

"Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."

 

That I don't find your arguments persuasive is not a comprehension problem.

 

Well, i'm not having any fun right now.. Can you CITO yourself from these forums please?

[+Sioneva]

If your intent is to leave a decent piece of swag that someone else might want, that's not an agenda.

 

Well there we have it...nothing more to be said on the topic. You're not going to pretend to know the motivation of anyone who left one of these offending items...are you?? For the people who left them, they are exactly "a decent piece of swag that someone else might want". End of discussion. Just because YOU don't want it or YOU don't think it's a decent piece of swag has no bearing. Thank you for proving everyone's point.

 

If it's a piece of literature, as opposed to some sort of trinket, the agenda is obvious.

 

Oops... so much for book caches!

[+narcissa]

 

Oops... so much for book caches!

 

What is with the reductio ad absurdum in here? Sheesh.

[+narcissa]

 

Well, i'm not having any fun right now.. Can you CITO yourself from these forums please?

 

If you can't handle disagreement, that's unfortunate, but telling others to leave the forum because you don't like what they have to say is, quite frankly, appalling.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I reserve the right to place as much Religious Crap in Caches as I like...that goes for Religious Carp too...Just consider it a signature item, and add it to your collection.

[+ReadyOrNot]

 

Well, i'm not having any fun right now.. Can you CITO yourself from these forums please?

 

If you can't handle disagreement, that's unfortunate, but telling others to leave the forum because you don't like what they have to say is, quite frankly, appalling.

 

You are the one that keeps bringing up that caching should be fun and light. If you deem something to not be "Fun" or "Light", you get to CITO it (this is by your own admission).. Since your presence is causing my "Fun" to diminish, wouldn't it be appropriate for the self-appointed swag cop to CITO themselves from the discussion?

[ad5smith]

And if someone's actually left it as a trade, that's even worse.

 

yes i totally agree, how can it be an even trade? unless it was like what i found last week- a used spark plug- lol. you are right

[+Sioneva]

 

Oops... so much for book caches!

 

What is with the reductio ad absurdum in here? Sheesh.

 

Well, absurdity breeds absurdity!

 

Donut?

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

7 was the largest font size I could pick... Please take your own advice!!!!

 

Can you please show me where I've told someone to get out of the forum? I often disagree with people, but it's really not my thing to tell someone else to get off the forum.

 

Or are you taking my comment out of context and using it to tell me to shut up because you disagree with me about something else? If so, that's pretty sad.

Comprehension anyone??Duh...the advice was to ignore it.

[ad5smith]

 

Well, i'm not having any fun right now.. Can you CITO yourself from these forums please?

 

If you can't handle disagreement, that's unfortunate, but telling others to leave the forum because you don't like what they have to say is, quite frankly, appalling.

 

You are the one that keeps bringing up that caching should be fun and light. If you deem something to not be "Fun" or "Light", you get to CITO it (this is by your own admission).. Since your presence is causing my "Fun" to diminish, wouldn't it be appropriate for the self-appointed swag cop to CITO themselves from the discussion?

 

ok time for this to stop, you are getting personal and it is very cheeky! up till the personal garbage slinging i was agreeing with you. puke on this

[+t4e]

i read this thread and i have to admit my head is spinning

 

how on earth can a piece of paper with a message on it, or a business card be an agenda?

 

you are free to ignore it, its not like some one is forcing you to sit and listen to some preaching about the so called agenda

 

afaic stuff like this in a cache is nothing more than SPAM, same as you get in your email spam folder every day, learn to ignore it

 

 

 

although i said this before, i feel this is a good time to repeat....the reference in one of my caches to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster was considered a religious agenda and i had to remove any such reference...for those that don't know what FSM is check out wikipedia, the short version is that its a parody LMAO

Edited March 23, 2010 by t4e

[+narcissa]

 

You are the one that keeps bringing up that caching should be fun and light. If you deem something to not be "Fun" or "Light", you get to CITO it (this is by your own admission).. Since your presence is causing my "Fun" to diminish, wouldn't it be appropriate for the self-appointed swag cop to CITO themselves from the discussion?

 

My comments are addressing the "agenda" context.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

Well if we use 'family friendly' as criteria - any attempt to save anybody's immortal soul would easily qualify and I should be filling the caches with any item I can find to further that goal.

 

Perspective my friend - its all a matter of perspective. You have made yours clear.

 

I suppose if "family friendly" is used as a euphemism. I am Canadian and I'm not always up-to-date on which terms have been co-opted to mean something entirely different in the American vernacular. Perhaps this is part of the confusion. Political or religious pamphlets certainly wouldn't qualify as "family friendly" around here.

Well, maybe you'll like to know that many politicians and christian religious leaders in the US use the term "Family Friendly" to mean "Christian Friendly", or "Within Christian Values"

[+narcissa]

Duh...the advice was to ignore it.

 

My advice was to avoid reading a thread if you find it unpleasant to read, instead of telling other to shut up.

 

I think there's value in discussing things, even when there's disagreement. Obviously, R.O.N. and I both think this topic is important enough to keep talking about it.

[+narcissa]

Well, maybe you'll like to know that many politicians and christian religious leaders in the US use the term "Family Friendly" to mean "Christian Friendly", or "Within Christian Values"

 

That's unfortunate. Is that what Groundspeak means?

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

That I don't find your arguments persuasive is not a comprehension problem.

Never said that was the problem...many of the things you say indicate that you did not comprehend(understand) the statement you are replying to.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

 

Well, i'm not having any fun right now.. Can you CITO yourself from these forums please?

 

If you can't handle disagreement, that's unfortunate, but telling others to leave the forum because you don't like what they have to say is, quite frankly, appalling.

Is asking someone if they can do something the same as telling them to do it?

[+ReadyOrNot]

 

You are the one that keeps bringing up that caching should be fun and light. If you deem something to not be "Fun" or "Light", you get to CITO it (this is by your own admission).. Since your presence is causing my "Fun" to diminish, wouldn't it be appropriate for the self-appointed swag cop to CITO themselves from the discussion?

 

My comments are addressing the "agenda" context.

 

Oh my.. This is getting tiring. Show me where in the guidelines it says that trade-items cannot have an agenda. We're all very well aware of the part that discusses cache owners listing a cache that has an agenda, but you are connecting two different areas of the guidelines.

 

Most of the folks here agree that you are wrong in your interpretation

Even the powers that be agree that you are wrong in your interpretation

 

Could it be that you are wrong in your interpretation?

[+narcissa]

 

That I don't find your arguments persuasive is not a comprehension problem.

Never said that was the problem...many of the things you say indicate that you did not comprehend(understand) the statement you are replying to.

 

Dude, that comment wasn't even in response to you.

[+mtn-man]

OK kids, reality check time.

 

You people need to back it down a few notches. Yes, there are most certainly personal attacks flying from all angles. You need to start treating each other with an ounce of respect or I am going to start tossing people out. Period. What I have been reading the past couple of days in a couple of topics is just pitiful. There are ways to get your point across without insults and jabs and trying to out zing each other.

 

Take no prisoners time. Try me if you wish.

[+narcissa]

 

Oh my.. This is getting tiring. Show me where in the guidelines it says that trade-items cannot have an agenda. We're all very well aware of the part that discusses cache owners listing a cache that has an agenda, but you are connecting two different areas of the guidelines.

 

Most of the folks here agree that you are wrong in your interpretation

Even the powers that be agree that you are wrong in your interpretation

 

Could it be that you are wrong in your interpretation?

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Those representatives of "TPTB" who have commented here have indicated that they rarely, if ever, attempt to police cache content.

 

The reviewers I've spoken to frown on using cache swag to promote an agenda but recognize there is little they can do about it and that it's up to the cache community to be self-policing in this area.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Well, maybe you'll like to know that many politicians and christian religious leaders in the US use the term "Family Friendly" to mean "Christian Friendly", or "Within Christian Values"

 

That's unfortunate. Is that what Groundspeak means?

I don't think that's what Groundspeak means, but many people in the US would consider Christian materials to be Family Friendly. So I guess it's a language barrier.

[+ReadyOrNot]

 

Oh my.. This is getting tiring. Show me where in the guidelines it says that trade-items cannot have an agenda. We're all very well aware of the part that discusses cache owners listing a cache that has an agenda, but you are connecting two different areas of the guidelines.

 

Most of the folks here agree that you are wrong in your interpretation

Even the powers that be agree that you are wrong in your interpretation

 

Could it be that you are wrong in your interpretation?

 

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Those representatives of "TPTB" who have commented here have indicated that they rarely, if ever, attempt to police cache content.

 

The reviewers I've spoken to frown on using cache swag to promote an agenda but recognize there is little they can do about it and that it's up to the cache community to be self-policing in this area.

 

I've highlighted the part I really want you to focus in on... Keep in mind that as a listing service, what they are primarily interested in is what is listed on their web servers, hence the posting... Notice the verb "posted" that is used in the language.

 

Trade items are not "posted" anywhere. Please explain to me how it is that you are applying this to trade items, because i'm just not seeing it.