Letterbox

[+bugleann]

Can someone explain what a letterbox cache is and how it works? Thanks.

[+briansnat]

It is a geocache that is also a letterbox. The only requirement on this site is that it has a stamp inside.

 

From a geocacher's standpoint it works the same as any other cache. It could be set up as a traditional cache at the posted coordinates, or as puzzle or multi cache. The only difference is the icon finders get in their statistics.

 

Because it is both a letterbox and a geocache it may be attractive to letterboxers too.

Edited March 23, 2010 by briansnat

[sabrefan7]

There is a separate and much older game called Letterboxing Just Google that and you will find out all you like about it. You can list a cache as a letter box hybrid for people to do letter boxing or use the stamps for the game

[+L0ne.R]

Can someone explain what a letterbox cache is and how it works? Thanks.

 

The important thing, as a finder, is not to take the stamp. Don't trade it out. It must remain with the box to maintain its status as a letterbox.

 

As a finder it's nice if you carry your own signature stamp to stamp the logbook. It can be a commercial stamp or you can hand-carve the stamp from an eraser. It's also nice when your signature stamp reflects you in someway - maybe the image of a bugle.

You use your signature stamp when signing the logbook. You collect the image of the stamp in the letterbox. Bring along your own personal logbook to collect letterbox stamp images.

 

Are you interested in finding them or hiding them?

[+hydnsek]

It is a geocache that is also a letterbox. The only requirement on this site is that it has a stamp inside.

Apparently not - this cache has no stamp. It originally didn't have an inkpad either. After being reminded of the requirements of a letterbox, he added the pad but still no stamp.

[+bugleann]

We have been caching for less than a year and I don't think we've ever run across one. Today somebody put one of my TB's in one and that's what made me aware of it. I couldn't figure out what made it a "letterbox" cache by the description.

 

So if I understand you correctly, one would carry their own logbook and ink pad, use the stamp that is in the cache, and stamp the image into your personal logbook?

 

Thanks for the explainations!

[+Vater_Araignee]

It is a geocache that is also a letterbox. The only requirement on this site is that it has a stamp inside.

Apparently not - this cache has no stamp. It originally didn't have an inkpad either. After being reminded of the requirements of a letterbox, he added the pad but still no stamp.

I always though the requirement of ink belongs on the cache/letterboxer. It is just too easy for an individual to place the ink pad back, in a manor that will let it leak and or dry out. We have cachers that cant even close an ammobox correctly and even barring those people, ink pads dry out in the field faster than indoors.

Then you might have a CO that has a special ink for you like UV. It would suck if everyone tried stamping the letterbox log with that because they wouldn't be able to tell what page was blank and what page wasn't.

Then you have the issue of color contamination, you spend 20 bucks on a nice metallic crimson for somebody to come muddy it up with black on their stamper even worse, invisible ink isn't anymore.

[+Taoiseach]

If somebody is willing to put out a proper Letterbox (see GC1MEA4 for an example of what I mean), I'm more than willing to make and send you a stamp. Just give me enough notice, and remember that I and I alone determine what constitutes 'proper.'

[+briansnat]

It is a geocache that is also a letterbox. The only requirement on this site is that it has a stamp inside.

Apparently not - this cache has no stamp. It originally didn't have an inkpad either. After being reminded of the requirements of a letterbox, he added the pad but still no stamp.

 

Because you can point to a cache that does not comply with the guidelines, does not mean the guideline does not exist. Letterbox hybrids must have stamps. It makes sense. Without a stamp it is not a letterbox, hence not a letterbox hybrid.

[+L0ne.R]

It is a geocache that is also a letterbox. The only requirement on this site is that it has a stamp inside.

Apparently not - this cache has no stamp. It originally didn't have an inkpad either. After being reminded of the requirements of a letterbox, he added the pad but still no stamp.

 

I've seen the same thing in our area. Almost the exact interpretration of what a letterbox is:

(from the "A Power Line" cache description)

LETTERBOXERS,. The idea of this letterbox is to log numerous stamps from the letterboxers OR cachers who have their own stamps just like a passport of someone who travels abroad a lot.

Re: the box in my area, a couple people mentioned the lack of a stamp but it wasn't until the reviewer was notified that the CO finally and reluctantly added a stamp to the box.

 

The reviewer of the "A Power Line..." cache is Rock Rabbit, you might want to drop him a note.

[GermanSailor]

Because you can point to a cache that does not comply with the guidelines, does not mean the guideline does not exist. Letterbox hybrids must have stamps. It makes sense. Without a stamp it is not a letterbox, hence not a letterbox hybrid.

From the guidelines:

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt.

 

Since English is not my native language I wonder if there isn't a difference between:

 

"must have" versus "should contain"

 

I assume more and more people mix up letterboxing with letterbox-hybrid geocaches.

 

To me the big difference is, the the letterbox-hybrids involve clues, meaning a description aor bearings how to get to the final.

 

GermanSailor

[+L0ne.R]

Because you can point to a cache that does not comply with the guidelines, does not mean the guideline does not exist. Letterbox hybrids must have stamps. It makes sense. Without a stamp it is not a letterbox, hence not a letterbox hybrid.

From the guidelines:

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt.

 

Since English is not my native language I wonder if there isn't a difference between:

 

"must have" versus "should contain"

 

GermanSailor

 

Thanks for saying this! I've argued in the forums that the language should be changed from "should" to "must". I think it's confusing and can (and has) led to misinterpretion. "Should" implies an option.

[+Taoiseach]

Because you can point to a cache that does not comply with the guidelines, does not mean the guideline does not exist. Letterbox hybrids must have stamps. It makes sense. Without a stamp it is not a letterbox, hence not a letterbox hybrid.

From the guidelines:

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt.

 

Since English is not my native language I wonder if there isn't a difference between:

 

"must have" versus "should contain"

 

GermanSailor

 

Thanks for saying this! I've argued in the forums that the language should be changed from "should" to "must". I think it's confusing and can (and has) led to misinterpretion. "Should" implies an option.

 

Agreed. Furthermore, I really think that the guidelines should be changed to state that clues as well as GPS co-ords must be given to find the final. If the hider want to make it a traditional (and for some reason not list it as a traditional), and argue that it's both a cache and a Letterbox (i.e. cross-listed), they should be required to provide a link that would allow those who want to use clues to do so.

 

If I see a Letterbox, I'd plan a trip around it. I'm always disappointed to find that the LBH is actually just a Letterstamp Traditional.

[+briansnat]

Because you can point to a cache that does not comply with the guidelines, does not mean the guideline does not exist. Letterbox hybrids must have stamps. It makes sense. Without a stamp it is not a letterbox, hence not a letterbox hybrid.

From the guidelines:

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt.

 

Since English is not my native language I wonder if there isn't a difference between:

 

"must have" versus "should contain"

 

I assume more and more people mix up letterboxing with letterbox-hybrid geocaches.

 

 

GermanSailor

 

Most guidelines use "should" or "may" rather than "must" or "will". The idea is to build in some flexibility. But if a letterbox doesn't have a stamp it really can't be considered a letterbox, as the stamps are a key element of letterboxing. So it stands to reason that if it's not a letterbox then it can't be a letterbox hybrid.

 

To me the big difference is, the the letterbox-hybrids involve clues, meaning a description aor bearings how to get to the final.

 

That is a misconception. The idea behind letterbox hybrids was to have geocaches that might also be attractive to letterboxers. It was not to provide a letterboxing-like experience to geocachers. That is why you will find many letterbox hybrids at the posted coordinates, just as any traditional cache (in fact that was a guideline at one time).

 

If you post coordinates to a spot and provide clues from that location then that is an offset cache. A type of multi. If you add a stamp to it then you can have a letterbox hybrid.

Edited March 23, 2010 by briansnat

[+L0ne.R]

Because you can point to a cache that does not comply with the guidelines, does not mean the guideline does not exist. Letterbox hybrids must have stamps. It makes sense. Without a stamp it is not a letterbox, hence not a letterbox hybrid.

From the guidelines:

 

Letterbox hybrids are a mixture of letterbox and geocache. They should contain a signature stamp that stays with the box, and they must conform to the guidelines for geocaches and therefore must contain a logbook and involve GPS use as an integral part of the hunt.

 

Since English is not my native language I wonder if there isn't a difference between:

 

"must have" versus "should contain"

 

I assume more and more people mix up letterboxing with letterbox-hybrid geocaches.

 

 

GermanSailor

 

Most guidelines use "should" or "may" rather than "must" or "will". The idea is to build in some flexibility. But if a letterbox doesn't have a stamp it really can't be considered a letterbox, as the stamps are a key element of letterboxing. So it stands to reason that if it's not a letterbox then it can't be a letterbox hybrid.

Some might argue that a letterbox does not require a stamp but rather that finders stamp into the cache's logbook and that the box's stamp is only a formality, an option, something that should be in the box but doesn't have to. By changing "should" to "must" there's no room for flexibility. I don't think we need flexibility in the definition. Don't know why we would?

[Fledermaus]

The principles of Letterboxing have been around for 150 years and was introduced into the US in the late 70's or early 80's, about 20 years before anyone thought about geocaches!

 

IMHO, the first person to hide a geocache probably got his idea from Letterboxing, but added the twist of using a GPS. It is highly unlikely that the two activities evolved separately.

 

Everything you want to know, to include historical facts, can be found on these two websites:

 

http://www.atlasquest.com/

 

http://www.letterboxing.org/

 

Letterboxing has far less Guidelines, Rules & Regulations. You actually get to use "Common Sense", which is a rare commodity now-a-days. BTW and for the most part, no reviewers either.

 

The biggest advantage to Letterboxing over Geocaching is the fact that you don't have to go out and buy a 300 to 500 dollar gadget that tells you what to do and where to go and how to do it.

 

If you have the time and the interest, or you have "cached-out" your area. Don't be an Osterich with your head in the sand! Take the plunge and get involved.

 

/\/(°w°)\/\

[GOF and Bacall]

Hey. Next time you drag up an old thread please, at least wipe off the dust.

[+GeoGeeBee]

 

IMHO, the first person to hide a geocache probably got his idea from Letterboxing, but added the twist of using a GPS. It is highly unlikely that the two activities evolved separately.

 

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. The history of geocaching is extremely well documented, since it was all done through internet forums which have been archived. Letterboxing had nothing to do with it, it was a bunch of people trying to find fun things to do with their new GPS receivers.

 

edit: to add history link

Edited September 16, 2010 by GeoGeeBee

[+addisonbr]

IMHO, the first person to hide a geocache probably got his idea from Letterboxing, but added the twist of using a GPS. It is highly unlikely that the two activities evolved separately.

I think Letterboxing is extremely cool, but there is no evidence linking the evolution of the two activities. As GeoGeeBee said, the genesis of the GPS Stash Hunt is extremely well documented since the conversations were virtually exclusively online and have been archived by multiple sources. There is no mention or allusion to Letterboxing in any of them.

 

The number of passionate geocachers today who have still never heard of Letterboxing despite enjoying a very close cousin is a bit of a hint to that. I can only assume that this was even more true at the turn of the last decade.

 

That said, I find the history of these activities fascinating and I would relish being shown something different than what I understand. You seem to know a lot about Letterboxing history - if you have anything that points to Dave Ulmer knowing about Letterboxing or using it as an influence before he kicked off geocaching (or Mike Teague or any of those guys), I would love to see it. And I'm saying that in the genuine sense, not in the snarky condescending Internet message board sense. I really would love to see it, I love this stuff.

[+L0ne.R]

The principles of Letterboxing have been around for 150 years and was introduced into the US in the late 70's or early 80's, about 20 years before anyone thought about geocaches!

In 1854 a Dartmoor guide hid a glass jar in the tors and put his business card in it. Then invited friends to go find it. It was actually more like a micro cache then what we currently know as letterboxing.

 

Over 122 years not much happened, by the early 1970s there were only 15 boxes hidden in Dartmoor. In 1976 someone collected the locations of these boxes and published a guide. That's when letterboxing in England gained some stature.

 

It was introduced into the US in April 1998 with the Smithsonian article "They Live and Breath Letterboxing" which was about the pasttime in England.

 

In May 2000 Dave Ulmer hid the first geocache.

That same month "GPS Stash Hunt" website/mailing list was born and then passed on the Jeremy Irish in September 2000 which Jeremy turned into geocaching.com.

In 2001 the Letterboxing.org site was born (also called LBNA - Letterboxing North America).

In 2004, Atlas Quest was born.

 

So as you can see, geocaching and letterboxing, as we know it in North America started about the same time. They are both, as we currently play them, social web-based hide-and-seek games.

 

IMHO, the first person to hide a geocache probably got his idea from Letterboxing, but added the twist of using a GPS. It is highly unlikely that the two activities evolved separately.

 

I'm pretty sure that Dave Ulmer did not know anything about letterboxing when he hid his cache. My guess is he was thinking along the lines of a "treasure hunt", more like a pirates chest of hidden treasures - probably why the geocache icon is a treasure box. The first letterbox (glass jar in the moors) was probably more like the 'message in a bottle' game. As we all know humans like 'hide and seek' games and have come up with different variations.

 

Everything you want to know, to include historical facts, can be found on these two websites:

 

http://www.atlasquest.com/

 

http://www.letterboxing.org/

 

 

More specifically:

 

http://www.atlasquest.com/about/history/

http://www.letterboxing.org/faq/faq.html#031

and let's not forget

http://www.geocaching.com/about/history.aspx

 

Letterboxing has far less Guidelines, Rules & Regulations. You actually get to use "Common Sense", which is a rare commodity now-a-days. BTW and for the most part, no reviewers either.

 

And you'll find a LOT of boxes get abandoned. A lot are not maintained. Many owners drop them while travelling never expecting to go back again. A lot never have the status of the boxes updated. That's a common complaint about the letterboxing.org site.

 

The biggest advantage to Letterboxing over Geocaching is the fact that you don't have to go out and buy a 300 to 500 dollar gadget that tells you what to do and where to go and how to do it.

 

If you have the time and the interest, or you have "cached-out" your area. Don't be an Osterich with your head in the sand! Take the plunge and get involved.

 

I love both letterboxing and geocaching. I do not see the relevance of someone hiding a jar in the moors 150 years ago and how that impacts on geocaching. They are both hide-and-seek games, both fun, they attract different types of people for different reasons. If you want more people to play then I I don't think telling them that letterboxing is a better game, is the way to attract cachers to letterboxing. They each have their pros and cons.