Memorial Cache? Any Help Will Be Appreciated

[+swizzle]

Last year I had to disable a cache because of the local law enforcement questioning me about it. It was found during there investigation of the area where the remains of a young girl was found. I haven't archived the cache yet because I want to set up a proper memorial for the girl. I want this to be very tastefully done and I'd like some ideas on how to do it. I can either print out a picture of this girl or paint her face on the side of an ammo can. All I can give is a date of birth and rough estimate of her death. Most likely within 48 hours of her being reported missing about 5 years ago. I was thinking that I should have her pic laminated and placed inside with some info about her. Is there anything else you guys and girls can think of that would be a great way for people to pay their respects to this girl? I also plan on adding a website or two to the cache page, those would be links to missing children sites. Would a candle in the cache be considered inappropriate in this case? I will most likely place a small bouquet of fake flowers. I really want to do this right and I want your honest opinions on this cache. Thanx for reading. Swizzle

[+simpjkee]

I wouldn't put a candle in the cache. I probably wouldn't put a memorial at the cache site either since some cachers might think the cache is hidden in the memorial and it receives wear and tear.

 

I would however, place the cache and just write a description of what happened and why the cache is placed to memorialize her. I think your description should set the tone of the cache. If the description is respectful, then cachers will be respectful. If you write a tasteless cache page then, cachers might not be as respectful.

 

I've placed 2 'memorial' caches and have received praise for them both. Check them out if you want examples:

 

Balbir Singh Sodhi

Deer Creek and the Adventurous Life of David Gowan

[+swizzle]

I'll check your caches out in the morning. Its getting late and I'm on my way to bed. There is no actual memorial in the area. My cache would be the only memorial. The girl was found across the road from my cache about a half mile into the woods. The two things I want to accomplish with this cache is complete respect for the girl and her family and awareness for missing children. This is in an out of the way place so smiley hunters tend to avoid caches here. So no candle and I'll go from here. Thanx for your input and I will check your caches out tomorrow for sure. Thanx again. Swizzle

[+beejay&esskay]

Is there anything else you guys and girls can think of that would be a great way for people to pay their respects to this girl?

Have you talked to her family to see what they think would be appropriate?

[+bittsen]

I'm sorry but I think the idea is crass

[+simpjkee]

I'm sorry but I think the idea is crass

 

Do you think the whole idea of 'memorial' caches is crass or do you just think the OP's memorial cache idea is crass.

[+Isonzo Karst]

I'm sorry but I think the idea is crass

 

100% agree...

 

Please, geocaches aren't the place to raise "awareness for missing children" and it I find it unlikely that the girl's family is going to find an internet hide and seek game that capitalizes on their loss to be respectful or appropriate in any way.

[+bittsen]

I'm sorry but I think the idea is crass

 

Do you think the whole idea of 'memorial' caches is crass or do you just think the OP's memorial cache idea is crass.

 

I don't necessarily think that memorial caches are crass. If a cacher were to pass away, have a memorial cache. If your family member would have loved a certain spot, hide a cache their in their memory.

Hide a cache to celebrate the spot where a childs remains were found, well that borders on the edge of being macabre. Especially since you didn't know this child, weren't a friend of the family, nor had any connection to the child.

 

It's just crass, in my humble opinion.

[+simpjkee]

I'm sorry but I think the idea is crass

 

Do you think the whole idea of 'memorial' caches is crass or do you just think the OP's memorial cache idea is crass.

 

I don't necessarily think that memorial caches are crass. If a cacher were to pass away, have a memorial cache. If your family member would have loved a certain spot, hide a cache their in their memory.

Hide a cache to celebrate the spot where a childs remains were found, well that borders on the edge of being macabre. Especially since you didn't know this child, weren't a friend of the family, nor had any connection to the child.

 

It's just crass, in my humble opinion.

 

Okay, thats what I thought you meant. I can see where you're coming from on this cache idea.

 

A little off topic, but theres always been a small debate about this in my area. It's somewhat common after a fatal car accident for friends of the deceased to create these roadside memorials with flowers and pictures and stuff. Some people think it's sick. Some people think it's honorable. Some people just don't want to be reminded of fatal accidents while cruising down the road, etc, etc. A couple of times cities have tried to ban them, but it never goes through.

[+bittsen]

Okay, thats what I thought you meant. I can see where you're coming from on this cache idea.

 

A little off topic, but theres always been a small debate about this in my area. It's somewhat common after a fatal car accident for friends of the deceased to create these roadside memorials with flowers and pictures and stuff. Some people think it's sick. Some people think it's honorable. Some people just don't want to be reminded of fatal accidents while cruising down the road, etc, etc. A couple of times cities have tried to ban them, but it never goes through.

 

It's done here too but there are LOTS of differences.

 

The memorials are started by friends or family

the location is perceived to be where the soul left the body

or it's to show where an accident took place.

Those aren't usually memorials to homicide

they aren't usually memorials to where a body was discovered.

 

Now, if you want to make a creepy cache then you use a location where something evil took place. That's a common theme.

[+The VanDucks]

We just found a cache today in Virginia, GCYN4Q - "A Child Not Forgotten."

 

GCYN4Q

 

It's a memorial to a young girl who was murdered and whose body was found along the highway; the state placed a commemorative marker for her at this spot along a side road. The cache was put here so people would stop by to see the marker and learn her story, since it is not where most people would happen across it on their own.

 

I think this is more appropriate than placing your own cache, because some might consider that you are using this tragedy just so you can place a new cache. I don't mean to insult you, but that would be my reaction. I think Geocaching.com does not allow placement of caches to further an agenda or promote a cause, even if it is one most people might agree with.

[AZcachemeister]

I can see both sides of this, but I wouldn't do it unless I had a personal connection with the deceased.

[+Walts Hunting]

From my perspective memorials and the such should be left to relatives/friends of the victim.

[+grateful cacher]

+1

 

From my perspective memorials and the such should be left to relatives/friends of the victim.

[+sssss]

Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity,

 

Personally I think memorial caches can take away some of the above quote from hidden within the guidelines.

[+briansnat]

Memorial caches are generally OK but could cross over the line into an agenda depending on how they are worded. Just state the facts and leave out things like "Please stop and reflect on the life of..." or "Come here to honor..." and it should be OK with the reviewer.

 

I happen to own two. In fact the first cache I placed back in 2001 was a memorial cache dedicated to a family friend killed on 9/11/01. The second is a tribute to a popular local geocacher who passed away unexpectedly.

 

For the 9/11 cache a group of cachers from the victim's home town got together and visited the cache and the trip made the town's newspaper with a front page photo of the group near the cache site.

 

For the second one a group of cachers accompanied by the deceased cacher's family made an emotional visit to the cache a few weeks after his death.

[+swizzle]

I'm sorry if you think its a bit crass. I don't think it would be possible to find the family as they live in Colorado and I live in New York. I'm sure with you cachers that have been caching long enough that most would be more annoyed by a simple LPC or bad, soggy swag then an out of the way memorial cache that would most likely see 10 people a year. I can leave the websites out if that would be viewed as a personal agenda. I've been to caches in cemeteries, memorials, and one in a shrine and many consider those distasteful. I really think its a matter of opinion. It will be clearly stated what this cache is meant for and if someone doesn't agree with it then there is always the ignore button. What I think would be disrespectful is to just enable the cache I disabled to hold the place and let people play a game where a tragedy took place. There will always be people for and against anything and everything that another man does. There's no denying that. I will be placing the cache much to the dismay of a few but I also know that many others will enjoy the thought of it. I will do this in the most respectful manor possible and what I'm asking here is for opinions from people that agree with me on this one. I'd like to keep this thread on the positive side if possible. I'm not trying to aggravate anyone in any way shape or form. I won't be placing any huge flower covered crosses for all to see. Just a cache that would allow some a moment of silence if they so choose or a quick TFTC if they prefer not to. I don't feel like I'm winning the game by placing another cache so other then the websites issue I don't see any problems with agenda. Thank you to everyone who has replied. Swizzle

[Keystone]

If I were the reviewer for this cache submission, the hyperlinks to websites about missing children would have to go. So would any language advocating "awareness," "support," etc. for the issue of missing children. The "agenda" guideline applies both to good agendas and bad agendas. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity -- not a platform for an agenda.

 

The successful memorial cache focuses on the individual being memorialized. I express no opinion on that since I don't have text to look at.

[+hukilaulau]

what I'm asking here is for opinions from people that agree with me on this one.

Why didn't you say that in the first place?

Given that enlightening addendum, you wouldn't want to hear what I think about it.

[+beejay&esskay]

what I'm asking here is for opinions from people that agree with me on this one.

Why didn't you say that in the first place?

Swizzle's sentiment is probably shared by a number of posters, but it would have been helpful to know this from the start.

[+Walts Hunting]

what I'm asking here is for opinions from people that agree with me on this one

 

Sort of like democrats on health care. And we thought you wanted a open discussion on the issue.

[swizzlenutz]

I think I've come up with a much better solution which will appeal to a wider range of cachers. I was thinking that a regular cache should be placed with coords to an offset memorial. If you want the smiley then grab it and go. If you want to spend a quiet moment then hunt out the memorial. This way no one is being forced to go to a memorial if they so choose too. Thanx for all your opinions and happy cachin' Swiz

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

OK, so let's not jump all over the OP...just a little misunderstanding. So the topic is

 

"I want to make a memorial Cache and need ideas on how to make it work"

 

So...saying "just don't do it" isn't very constructive. If you have some ideas on how the OP can make their idea work, then please share...if you want to discuss whether memorial Caches are or are not a good idea, and what the limits are, then that's good fodder for a different topic.

 

Gee, this reminds me a lot of someone asking "What's a good container for a micro?" and the answer being "Micros Suck" "I hate Micros" "Micros have ruined the game"...Fine, but all that is off topic.

[+simpjkee]

You could place the cache and make the memorial a waymark. Then put the link to the waymark on the cache page so that if anyone wants to get the waymark, they can and log both.

 

Or you could make the waymark and then make the cache a 'challenge' cache. The 'challenge' being that you have to log a visit on the waymark for the memorial before you can log a find on the cache.

[+Walts Hunting]

You could place the cache and make the memorial a waymark. Then put the link to the waymark on the cache page so that if anyone wants to get the waymark, they can and log both.

 

Or you could make the waymark and then make the cache a 'challenge' cache. The 'challenge' being that you have to log a visit on the waymark for the memorial before you can log a find on the cache.

 

Now that's clever.

[+The Cache Checkers]

I see nothing wrong with it. I have a cache ready to hide in memory of my mom, who died of breast cancer. I don't have an agenda, just want to place a cache in a location I know she would have liked. Here is what my son, neices and I found while caching in N. Michigan about a year ago.

 

The cache was dedicated to the memory of a young girl who was shot for no apparent reason while swimming in a river with her friends.

 

It's a simple wood cross with a dedication that was created with cement and stone. The cache itself is a plastic container, placed behind the cross. When we found it, it had been there for almost two years. I don't know much about the woods, don't know the traffic through it, but it's a patch of woods next to the lake and there is a noticable trail walking into the woods.

 

Edited to add that it's this one GC14WMH - short and to the point. Look through the logs, a relative of the girl liked the tribute.

 

Edited March 22, 2010 by The Cache Checkers

[+Setan Meyacha]

Since I've hidden three 'memorial' caches, two for good friends and one for my brother, I obviously have no problem with 'memorial' caches. I think it will depend a great deal on how your memorial cache is worded as to whether other cachers might take offense or not. I could be wrong, but I think making anything other than finding the cache a requirement to logging the cache is no longer allowed; so, I think making finding the waymark in order to log the cache wouldn't fly past the reviewer.

I do think it admirable that you want to make some kind of tribute to the poor girl who was found nearby, and since it is for the geocaching community, a nice tribute in your description should be sufficient.

In Memory of Corky GC1CRNJ

ETD: In Memory of Rawhide GC1BFW7

Al's Cache GC15M98

[+simpjkee]

I could be wrong, but I think making anything other than finding the cache a requirement to logging the cache is no longer allowed; so, I think making finding the waymark in order to log the cache wouldn't fly past the reviewer.

 

ALR's are no longer acceptable. Challenge caches are acceptable. The waymark idea would work.

[Keystone]

I could be wrong, but I think making anything other than finding the cache a requirement to logging the cache is no longer allowed; so, I think making finding the waymark in order to log the cache wouldn't fly past the reviewer.

 

ALR's are no longer acceptable. Challenge caches are acceptable. The waymark idea would work.

As articulated, your idea isn't a challenge cache. Sorry.

[+simpjkee]

I could be wrong, but I think making anything other than finding the cache a requirement to logging the cache is no longer allowed; so, I think making finding the waymark in order to log the cache wouldn't fly past the reviewer.

 

ALR's are no longer acceptable. Challenge caches are acceptable. The waymark idea would work.

As articulated, your idea isn't a challenge cache. Sorry.

 

No need to apologize. Why isn't it?

Edited March 22, 2010 by simpjkee

[Keystone]

Your idea isn't a challenge cache because it doesn't meet the stated requirements for a challenge cache in the listing guidelines, as amplified by this page in the Groundspeak Knowledge Books. (See especially points 7 and 8.)

 

I'd like to discourage further discussion of this tangent so that the thread remains on topic to "memorial caches." A separate thread would be a good place to discuss challenge caches. Thanks.

[+simpjkee]

Your idea isn't a challenge cache because it doesn't meet the stated requirements for a challenge cache in the listing guidelines, as amplified by this page in the Groundspeak Knowledge Books. (See especially points 7 and 8.)

 

I'd like to discourage further discussion of this tangent so that the thread remains on topic to "memorial caches." A separate thread would be a good place to discuss challenge caches. Thanks.

 

Eh, looks iffy. I can see where this idea could be published. I guess it's open to interpretation by the reviewer. Either way, if published, said cache would be a way to do this memorial cache which is what this topic is about. If the OP would like to pursue this idea, it may be best to talk with the reviewer first.

 

Either way, creating the cache and the waymark and linking the waymark on the cache page is okay.

[+bittsen]

Meh

 

I still think it's crass. Caching is supposed to be fun. Adding fun to the memory of a murdered child is crass.

 

IMHO

 

 

And, all the comments saying that people have made memorials to those who have died were friends or relatives of the deceased.

 

In all honesty, if it were my child and someone did this, I would be a little pissed.

[+swizzle]

As far as Waymarking goes I don't think this would fit into the category because at present there is no memorial in place. The object of this memorial is to give people who knew the girl or people in general who have followed this story locally a place to give a moment of silence. In my opinion to turn my memorial to this girl into a waymark is to turn her tragedy into a game. I will place the memorial in close proximity to the cache that I place here. The cache which will earn people their smiley will also give them the coords and exact location of the memorial. No extra smiley for visiting the memorial. I feel that doing it this way will keep it outside of the game and much more respectful. I appreciate all of your opinions but in this case I think this is the best way to do this memorial. Swiz

[+42at42]

I'm sorry if you think its a bit crass. I don't think it would be possible to find the family as they live in Colorado and I live in New York.

 

I would think it would be a great idea to honour this girl in this way, but I would definately get the blessing from the family.

 

If that's not possible you should make it a memorial to missing children everywhere. If asked 'why', then you can explain the story of the girl by email.

 

Putting a picture of this girl on or in this cache without the family knowing might be wrong.

[+Castle Mischief]

As far as Waymarking goes I don't think this would fit into the category because at present there is no memorial in place. The object of this memorial is to give people who knew the girl or people in general who have followed this story locally a place to give a moment of silence. In my opinion to turn my memorial to this girl into a waymark is to turn her tragedy into a game. I will place the memorial in close proximity to the cache that I place here. The cache which will earn people their smiley will also give them the coords and exact location of the memorial. No extra smiley for visiting the memorial. I feel that doing it this way will keep it outside of the game and much more respectful. I appreciate all of your opinions but in this case I think this is the best way to do this memorial. Swiz

 

This just gets more offensive to me as a parent the more I read it. I don't think the family, friends and people that knew this girl need you, a total stranger, putting up a geocache so they can "give a moment of silence". If this was my kid I would feel enraged and violated that you felt the need to draw people to your game in the name of my child. You are not helping them find closure, you are not help them find peace.

 

If you want to help other kids then get involved and volunteer your time and money.

 

Please don't do this.

[+bittsen]

As far as Waymarking goes I don't think this would fit into the category because at present there is no memorial in place. The object of this memorial is to give people who knew the girl or people in general who have followed this story locally a place to give a moment of silence. In my opinion to turn my memorial to this girl into a waymark is to turn her tragedy into a game. I will place the memorial in close proximity to the cache that I place here. The cache which will earn people their smiley will also give them the coords and exact location of the memorial. No extra smiley for visiting the memorial. I feel that doing it this way will keep it outside of the game and much more respectful. I appreciate all of your opinions but in this case I think this is the best way to do this memorial. Swiz

 

This just gets more offensive to me as a parent the more I read it. I don't think the family, friends and people that knew this girl need you, a total stranger, putting up a geocache so they can "give a moment of silence". If this was my kid I would feel enraged and violated that you felt the need to draw people to your game in the name of my child. You are not helping them find closure, you are not help them find peace.

 

If you want to help other kids then get involved and volunteer your time and money.

 

Please don't do this.

 

Well said.

[GPS-Hermit]

I agree that Geo-caching is a place to be interesting and happy where people are left with a good feeling and enjoy the game and nature and stay way from agendas.

[+swizzle]

A picture of the girl and her sad story will have nothing to do with the cache I'm setting. The cache is a part of the game. I'll have the coords to the memorial as well as her name in the cache. (Ex: To those who wish to view (the girls name) Memorial then feel free to visit these coords.), It will be plain, straight forward and simple. You visit or you don't. No smiley, no game, just a simple memorial. If it irritates you then I apologize but I feel I'm doing the right thing and everyone I've discussed this with outside of this forum has agreed that its a really good sentiment. For the amount of nay sayers here vs. those who are for it I'd still have to say that I'm right in doing this. This is not for a game or for money or for any other purpose that would forward me in any aspect of my life. This in my opinion is pure and simple respect. The cache name and listing will be devoid of any hint of the memorial if that makes it better but I doubt it. At this point I think more people would be disappointed with me for not setting this up after I said I would. If any of her family members are in disagreement with me on this then I'll gladly take down the memorial as soon as humanly possible. I'll even take that step to attempt to contact a family member and get their opinion first. Swizzle

[+simpjkee]

As far as Waymarking goes I don't think this would fit into the category because at present there is no memorial in place. The object of this memorial is to give people who knew the girl or people in general who have followed this story locally a place to give a moment of silence. In my opinion to turn my memorial to this girl into a waymark is to turn her tragedy into a game. I will place the memorial in close proximity to the cache that I place here. The cache which will earn people their smiley will also give them the coords and exact location of the memorial. No extra smiley for visiting the memorial. I feel that doing it this way will keep it outside of the game and much more respectful. I appreciate all of your opinions but in this case I think this is the best way to do this memorial. Swiz

 

So placing a Waymark is "to turn her tragedy into a game.", but placing a geocache isn't??

 

[+42at42]

I'll even take that step to attempt to contact a family member and get their opinion first.

 

If you can't contact the family, that should be the end of the line. She was their child, not yours. Putting her name and/or picture on a memorial without their permission is invasion of privacy.

[+narcissa]

 

This just gets more offensive to me as a parent the more I read it. I don't think the family, friends and people that knew this girl need you, a total stranger, putting up a geocache so they can "give a moment of silence". If this was my kid I would feel enraged and violated that you felt the need to draw people to your game in the name of my child. You are not helping them find closure, you are not help them find peace.

 

If you want to help other kids then get involved and volunteer your time and money.

 

Please don't do this.

 

^This. So much.

[+GrateBear]

I think it's a bit presumptuous to set up a memorial for someone you don't know. Personally, I have a strong dislike of roadside memorials, as most of them deteriorate over time and look tacky. But that's just me. If you are determined to continue, go ahead.

[Keystone]

I'm closing this topic at the OP's request.