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Why the angst over caches in the ground?


cx1
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It is a fine line to walk, but my inclination would be to judge hides in the spirit of the law/rules and not to the letter. There will always be people, lacking enough common sense, that will ignore them, whatever amount of rules you create, and tear up the environment around a cache hide making it look like a nuclear bomb site. A partial solution to this, which is frequently used over here, is to add enough clear hint and/or a spoiler picture. This enables most cachers to find the box, even when hidden in the ground, without much hassle or destruction of the surroundings with the added benefit that the cache box will remain perfectly hidden for muggles.

I will chose to "walk the line".And I believe rules should be followed to the letter.I would not want to explain to a park ranger as I am digging a hole in the ground that "I dont follow the rules to the letter".Other people who"lack common sense and ignore the rules"does not make it ok for me to do the same.As far as "without MUCH hassle or destruction",I feel that is unacceptable.I will do all I can to avoid hassle and destruction.Even at the expence of it being muggled.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just giving a general idea of how the rules seem to be applied over here. A good example is this cache, a multi that is placed in a conservation area together with the organisation that manages it and where a lot of the WPs are PVC pipes in the ground covered by a custom fitting stump. Everyone (even the tree huggers) except the geocaching guidelines, seems to agree in this case that hiding the WPs and even the cache container in the ground isn't such a big deal.

 

We certainly don't see geocaching in the news here due to caches being hidden in the ground and thus pissing of various organisations, government or not, or needing to be blown up by the bomb squad. It looks to me like the rule was made to please the national parks & rangers in the USA, but I find it strange this should make the rule the same all over the globe. It looks like a minority controlling a majority. I'd find it more logical to expand the existing rule to allow cases such as the one I mentioned where the parties involved are in agreement about hiding caches in the ground.

 

I'm not aiming to offend anyone here, I'm just offering my 2 cents.

You seem to only want to view it from your point of view.And yes the rule was also made to please "national parks and rangers".In case you forgot,they are the ones who give permission to place the cache on this land.The parks we enjoy are also the same parks that everyone else enjoys.So digging holes and placing fake stumps is not ok.I believe that most responsible,rule following geocachers do not want to alter or negativly impact the environment,or the game.You need to look at this from a "non-geocachers"point of view also.We are the minority,and must keep the majority happy.I believe when you joined this group you agreed to follow the rules did you not?Just because people ignore the rules where you are doesnt mean it should happen here.Keep digging holes,just dont do them in my parks. :wub:

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It is a fine line to walk, but my inclination would be to judge hides in the spirit of the law/rules and not to the letter. There will always be people, lacking enough common sense, that will ignore them, whatever amount of rules you create, and tear up the environment around a cache hide making it look like a nuclear bomb site. A partial solution to this, which is frequently used over here, is to add enough clear hint and/or a spoiler picture. This enables most cachers to find the box, even when hidden in the ground, without much hassle or destruction of the surroundings with the added benefit that the cache box will remain perfectly hidden for muggles.

I will chose to "walk the line".And I believe rules should be followed to the letter.I would not want to explain to a park ranger as I am digging a hole in the ground that "I dont follow the rules to the letter".Other people who"lack common sense and ignore the rules"does not make it ok for me to do the same.As far as "without MUCH hassle or destruction",I feel that is unacceptable.I will do all I can to avoid hassle and destruction.Even at the expence of it being muggled.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just giving a general idea of how the rules seem to be applied over here. A good example is this cache, a multi that is placed in a conservation area together with the organisation that manages it and where a lot of the WPs are PVC pipes in the ground covered by a custom fitting stump. Everyone (even the tree huggers) except the geocaching guidelines, seems to agree in this case that hiding the WPs and even the cache container in the ground isn't such a big deal.

 

We certainly don't see geocaching in the news here due to caches being hidden in the ground and thus pissing of various organisations, government or not, or needing to be blown up by the bomb squad. It looks to me like the rule was made to please the national parks & rangers in the USA, but I find it strange this should make the rule the same all over the globe. It looks like a minority controlling a majority. I'd find it more logical to expand the existing rule to allow cases such as the one I mentioned where the parties involved are in agreement about hiding caches in the ground.

 

I'm not aiming to offend anyone here, I'm just offering my 2 cents.

You seem to only want to view it from your point of view.And yes the rule was also made to please "national parks and rangers".In case you forgot,they are the ones who give permission to place the cache on this land.The parks we enjoy are also the same parks that everyone else enjoys.So digging holes and placing fake stumps is not ok.I believe that most responsible,rule following geocachers do not want to alter or negativly impact the environment,or the game.You need to look at this from a "non-geocachers"point of view also.We are the minority,and must keep the majority happy.I believe when you joined this group you agreed to follow the rules did you not?Just because people ignore the rules where you are doesnt mean it should happen here.Keep digging holes,just dont do them in my parks. :wub:

Well it is a liberal point of view that enables us to both keep the rules for national parks in the USA, but that at the same time allow a cache in the ground in locations where the landowners give permission. For me, that's a win-win situation. In short it would mean that rules could be different depending on the locale as is the case for example for the road rules.

 

As far as I can see it the rest of the public is still able to enjoy the parks over here, even with some buried caches. I also think it doesn't have a negative impact on the environment when a cache is put slightly in the ground, and even if it has an impact, it won't we more than what the animals themselves have or that the other people have that visit the parks for non-geocaching related activities.

 

Also a 'fake stump' would be permitted by the 'no digging' guidelines as it rests on the ground.

 

And yes, I did agree to follow the rules when I joined, but I believe rules should be under constant review to see if they need to change. Rules shouldn't be set in stone until the end of days. They should provide a starting point for an ever changing set of guidelines that is kept up to date to the times and that most people can agree about.

 

And don't fear I'll be coming over to dig holes in your parks, according to my liberal rules it wouldn't be allowed and so I won't.

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I always get a kick out of those that forget that humans are God's creatures too. That somehow it's ok for the bears and deer to crap in the woods, the rodents and rabbits can destroy vegitation, but we must cleanup after our dogs and walk through woods leaving no trace.

 

Around here towns hire professional hunters to kill deer who are over browsing an area and will capture and euthanize problem bear. Do geocachers really want to be considered a "problem" by local officials?

 

Come on, I find it difficult to believe that you think that statement somehow correlates to buried caches.

 

No more or less than yours. It does show the willingness of the authorities to take action against perceived threats to the environment. I don't think we want geocaching to be in that category.

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It is a fine line to walk, but my inclination would be to judge hides in the spirit of the law/rules and not to the letter. There will always be people, lacking enough common sense, that will ignore them, whatever amount of rules you create, and tear up the environment around a cache hide making it look like a nuclear bomb site. A partial solution to this, which is frequently used over here, is to add enough clear hint and/or a spoiler picture. This enables most cachers to find the box, even when hidden in the ground, without much hassle or destruction of the surroundings with the added benefit that the cache box will remain perfectly hidden for muggles.

I will chose to "walk the line".And I believe rules should be followed to the letter.I would not want to explain to a park ranger as I am digging a hole in the ground that "I dont follow the rules to the letter".Other people who"lack common sense and ignore the rules"does not make it ok for me to do the same.As far as "without MUCH hassle or destruction",I feel that is unacceptable.I will do all I can to avoid hassle and destruction.Even at the expence of it being muggled.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just giving a general idea of how the rules seem to be applied over here. A good example is this cache, a multi that is placed in a conservation area together with the organisation that manages it and where a lot of the WPs are PVC pipes in the ground covered by a custom fitting stump. Everyone (even the tree huggers) except the geocaching guidelines, seems to agree in this case that hiding the WPs and even the cache container in the ground isn't such a big deal.

 

We certainly don't see geocaching in the news here due to caches being hidden in the ground and thus pissing of various organisations, government or not, or needing to be blown up by the bomb squad. It looks to me like the rule was made to please the national parks & rangers in the USA, but I find it strange this should make the rule the same all over the globe. It looks like a minority controlling a majority. I'd find it more logical to expand the existing rule to allow cases such as the one I mentioned where the parties involved are in agreement about hiding caches in the ground.

 

I'm not aiming to offend anyone here, I'm just offering my 2 cents.

You seem to only want to view it from your point of view.And yes the rule was also made to please "national parks and rangers".In case you forgot,they are the ones who give permission to place the cache on this land.The parks we enjoy are also the same parks that everyone else enjoys.So digging holes and placing fake stumps is not ok.I believe that most responsible,rule following geocachers do not want to alter or negativly impact the environment,or the game.You need to look at this from a "non-geocachers"point of view also.We are the minority,and must keep the majority happy.I believe when you joined this group you agreed to follow the rules did you not?Just because people ignore the rules where you are doesnt mean it should happen here.Keep digging holes,just dont do them in my parks. :wub:

Well it is a liberal point of view that enables us to both keep the rules for national parks in the USA, but that at the same time allow a cache in the ground in locations where the landowners give permission. For me, that's a win-win situation. In short it would mean that rules could be different depending on the locale as is the case for example for the road rules.

 

As far as I can see it the rest of the public is still able to enjoy the parks over here, even with some buried caches. I also think it doesn't have a negative impact on the environment when a cache is put slightly in the ground, and even if it has an impact, it won't we more than what the animals themselves have or that the other people have that visit the parks for non-geocaching related activities.

 

Also a 'fake stump' would be permitted by the 'no digging' guidelines as it rests on the ground.

 

And yes, I did agree to follow the rules when I joined, but I believe rules should be under constant review to see if they need to change. Rules shouldn't be set in stone until the end of days. They should provide a starting point for an ever changing set of guidelines that is kept up to date to the times and that most people can agree about.

 

And don't fear I'll be coming over to dig holes in your parks, according to my liberal rules it wouldn't be allowed and so I won't.

Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.As far as people doing damage they are breaking the rules too.There seems to be enough problems with poor cache containers placed obove ground let alone a buried one.I dont think some hiker feels up to stepping through the lid of a buried bucket and breaking an ankle.I dont know how much clearer I can make it,digging holes is bad,and against the RULES.

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... In the next month I'll have the opportunity to find geocaches in seven different countries on three different continents.

I am SO jealous! I love traveling. I got to see a good bit of the world during 10 years in the Navy and then for 28 years my consulting business kept me on the road; between them and personal travel I got to see every US state, most large cities, 17 countries and to live in 3. Since retiring it is the part of my work that I miss the most!

 

I wish I had known about geocaching before 2003... it would be so cool to have dipped a TB in a cache in all those places as a sort of travelogue.

 

Have fun!

 

Hey! How about writing up your trip(s) to share with other geocachers in The Online Geocacher? We would love to read about that!

 

The thing I like the most about geocaching while traveling is that I get to see a wide range of geocaching environments from spending a day geocaching in Sunnyvale/Mountain View, CA after spending a day in meetings at Google to going to places where geocaches are very few and far between. Whenever I find out I am going to be traveling somewhere on business one of the first things I do is check out what the local geocaching scene is like. I discovered that in Paris, there are what I though a disproportionate number of puzzle caches compared to traditional caches so I've spent a bit of time solving some puzzle caches that I hope to find during my seven hour layover there. That includes 4.5 and 5 star difficulty caches.

 

I was also amazed to discover that I'll be flying into a city of 2.8 million people (Dar es Salaam, Tanzania) and there are zero caches in the city. The closest caches are in Zanzibar, a 3-4 hour ferry ride away. However, as I'll just be staying in Dar overnight and then heading west about 120 miles I may still be able to grab one cache in the country at Mikumi National Park (I'm planning on visiting the park the day before I leave).

 

Since I live in a pretty sparse area my total number of finds, number of caches in a day, and the joy of caching on a power trail can never compare to others. However, when it comes to finding caches in lots of different and unique places I'm doing pretty well. In most of those places I really don't care if I find more than 1-2 two caches in the area. Just one lets me color in another State/Country on the map on my profile page.

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It is a fine line to walk, but my inclination would be to judge hides in the spirit of the law/rules and not to the letter. There will always be people, lacking enough common sense, that will ignore them, whatever amount of rules you create, and tear up the environment around a cache hide making it look like a nuclear bomb site. A partial solution to this, which is frequently used over here, is to add enough clear hint and/or a spoiler picture. This enables most cachers to find the box, even when hidden in the ground, without much hassle or destruction of the surroundings with the added benefit that the cache box will remain perfectly hidden for muggles.

I will chose to "walk the line".And I believe rules should be followed to the letter.I would not want to explain to a park ranger as I am digging a hole in the ground that "I dont follow the rules to the letter".Other people who"lack common sense and ignore the rules"does not make it ok for me to do the same.As far as "without MUCH hassle or destruction",I feel that is unacceptable.I will do all I can to avoid hassle and destruction.Even at the expence of it being muggled.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just giving a general idea of how the rules seem to be applied over here. A good example is this cache, a multi that is placed in a conservation area together with the organisation that manages it and where a lot of the WPs are PVC pipes in the ground covered by a custom fitting stump. Everyone (even the tree huggers) except the geocaching guidelines, seems to agree in this case that hiding the WPs and even the cache container in the ground isn't such a big deal.

 

We certainly don't see geocaching in the news here due to caches being hidden in the ground and thus pissing of various organisations, government or not, or needing to be blown up by the bomb squad. It looks to me like the rule was made to please the national parks & rangers in the USA, but I find it strange this should make the rule the same all over the globe. It looks like a minority controlling a majority. I'd find it more logical to expand the existing rule to allow cases such as the one I mentioned where the parties involved are in agreement about hiding caches in the ground.

 

I'm not aiming to offend anyone here, I'm just offering my 2 cents.

You seem to only want to view it from your point of view.And yes the rule was also made to please "national parks and rangers".In case you forgot,they are the ones who give permission to place the cache on this land.The parks we enjoy are also the same parks that everyone else enjoys.So digging holes and placing fake stumps is not ok.I believe that most responsible,rule following geocachers do not want to alter or negativly impact the environment,or the game.You need to look at this from a "non-geocachers"point of view also.We are the minority,and must keep the majority happy.I believe when you joined this group you agreed to follow the rules did you not?Just because people ignore the rules where you are doesnt mean it should happen here.Keep digging holes,just dont do them in my parks. :wub:

Well it is a liberal point of view that enables us to both keep the rules for national parks in the USA, but that at the same time allow a cache in the ground in locations where the landowners give permission. For me, that's a win-win situation. In short it would mean that rules could be different depending on the locale as is the case for example for the road rules.

 

As far as I can see it the rest of the public is still able to enjoy the parks over here, even with some buried caches. I also think it doesn't have a negative impact on the environment when a cache is put slightly in the ground, and even if it has an impact, it won't we more than what the animals themselves have or that the other people have that visit the parks for non-geocaching related activities.

 

Also a 'fake stump' would be permitted by the 'no digging' guidelines as it rests on the ground.

 

And yes, I did agree to follow the rules when I joined, but I believe rules should be under constant review to see if they need to change. Rules shouldn't be set in stone until the end of days. They should provide a starting point for an ever changing set of guidelines that is kept up to date to the times and that most people can agree about.

 

And don't fear I'll be coming over to dig holes in your parks, according to my liberal rules it wouldn't be allowed and so I won't.

Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.As far as people doing damage they are breaking the rules too.There seems to be enough problems with poor cache containers placed obove ground let alone a buried one.I dont think some hiker feels up to stepping through the lid of a buried bucket and breaking an ankle.I dont know how much clearer I can make it,digging holes is bad,and against the RULES.

 

Well according to Darwin, I and a lot of animals have a common descent, so I wouldn't call humans visitors. I'd say we're on equal footing and should live together peacefully. So if animal can dig a hole and it is not called damage to the environment, a small hole for a cache also isn't damaging.

 

Where I'm from we don't seem to have to same problems with lots of poor cache containers. The big majority is of good quality and hidden correctly and strongly underground far enough off the paths so that nobody has problems falling through one. Hell, I weigh about 120kg and I've stepped on my fare share of them and have never fallen through, but I have tripped over caches that weren't buried :grin: .

 

As I've said before, it should not be because of 1 country that has problems with caches/cachers/landowners/rangers/whatever that this should affect the rest of the world by means of a blanket rule. The caches that I find problematic are the ones hidden poorly above ground in a plastic bag covered in twigs. They are the ones that look like litter, are easily gotten to by animals, pollute, get moved, get easily broken, etc... . So hiding them underground actually solves a lot of problems the 'no digging' rule causes.

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It is a fine line to walk, but my inclination would be to judge hides in the spirit of the law/rules and not to the letter. There will always be people, lacking enough common sense, that will ignore them, whatever amount of rules you create, and tear up the environment around a cache hide making it look like a nuclear bomb site. A partial solution to this, which is frequently used over here, is to add enough clear hint and/or a spoiler picture. This enables most cachers to find the box, even when hidden in the ground, without much hassle or destruction of the surroundings with the added benefit that the cache box will remain perfectly hidden for muggles.

I will chose to "walk the line".And I believe rules should be followed to the letter.I would not want to explain to a park ranger as I am digging a hole in the ground that "I dont follow the rules to the letter".Other people who"lack common sense and ignore the rules"does not make it ok for me to do the same.As far as "without MUCH hassle or destruction",I feel that is unacceptable.I will do all I can to avoid hassle and destruction.Even at the expence of it being muggled.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm just giving a general idea of how the rules seem to be applied over here. A good example is this cache, a multi that is placed in a conservation area together with the organisation that manages it and where a lot of the WPs are PVC pipes in the ground covered by a custom fitting stump. Everyone (even the tree huggers) except the geocaching guidelines, seems to agree in this case that hiding the WPs and even the cache container in the ground isn't such a big deal.

 

We certainly don't see geocaching in the news here due to caches being hidden in the ground and thus pissing of various organisations, government or not, or needing to be blown up by the bomb squad. It looks to me like the rule was made to please the national parks & rangers in the USA, but I find it strange this should make the rule the same all over the globe. It looks like a minority controlling a majority. I'd find it more logical to expand the existing rule to allow cases such as the one I mentioned where the parties involved are in agreement about hiding caches in the ground.

 

I'm not aiming to offend anyone here, I'm just offering my 2 cents.

You seem to only want to view it from your point of view.And yes the rule was also made to please "national parks and rangers".In case you forgot,they are the ones who give permission to place the cache on this land.The parks we enjoy are also the same parks that everyone else enjoys.So digging holes and placing fake stumps is not ok.I believe that most responsible,rule following geocachers do not want to alter or negativly impact the environment,or the game.You need to look at this from a "non-geocachers"point of view also.We are the minority,and must keep the majority happy.I believe when you joined this group you agreed to follow the rules did you not?Just because people ignore the rules where you are doesnt mean it should happen here.Keep digging holes,just dont do them in my parks. :wub:

Well it is a liberal point of view that enables us to both keep the rules for national parks in the USA, but that at the same time allow a cache in the ground in locations where the landowners give permission. For me, that's a win-win situation. In short it would mean that rules could be different depending on the locale as is the case for example for the road rules.

 

As far as I can see it the rest of the public is still able to enjoy the parks over here, even with some buried caches. I also think it doesn't have a negative impact on the environment when a cache is put slightly in the ground, and even if it has an impact, it won't we more than what the animals themselves have or that the other people have that visit the parks for non-geocaching related activities.

 

Also a 'fake stump' would be permitted by the 'no digging' guidelines as it rests on the ground.

 

And yes, I did agree to follow the rules when I joined, but I believe rules should be under constant review to see if they need to change. Rules shouldn't be set in stone until the end of days. They should provide a starting point for an ever changing set of guidelines that is kept up to date to the times and that most people can agree about.

 

And don't fear I'll be coming over to dig holes in your parks, according to my liberal rules it wouldn't be allowed and so I won't.

Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.As far as people doing damage they are breaking the rules too.There seems to be enough problems with poor cache containers placed obove ground let alone a buried one.I dont think some hiker feels up to stepping through the lid of a buried bucket and breaking an ankle.I dont know how much clearer I can make it,digging holes is bad,and against the RULES.

 

Well according to Darwin, I and a lot of animals have a common descent, so I wouldn't call humans visitors. I'd say we're on equal footing and should live together peacefully. So if animal can dig a hole and it is not called damage to the environment, a small hole for a cache also isn't damaging.

 

Where I'm from we don't seem to have to same problems with lots of poor cache containers. The big majority is of good quality and hidden correctly and strongly underground far enough off the paths so that nobody has problems falling through one. Hell, I weigh about 120kg and I've stepped on my fare share of them and have never fallen through, but I have tripped over caches that weren't buried :grin: .

 

As I've said before, it should not be because of 1 country that has problems with caches/cachers/landowners/rangers/whatever that this should affect the rest of the world by means of a blanket rule. The caches that I find problematic are the ones hidden poorly above ground in a plastic bag covered in twigs. They are the ones that look like litter, are easily gotten to by animals, pollute, get moved, get easily broken, etc... . So hiding them underground actually solves a lot of problems the 'no digging' rule causes.

I dont want to get into Darwins"theory".I dont live with wild animals.They have their place,I have mine.If in your area the buried caches are ALL safe thats nice.I would find that kinda hard to believe.You even stated you have stepped on your fair share of them.Plastic bags with sticks is also frowned upon and would probably not be approved either,so thats not a good point.

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

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I dont want to get into Darwins"theory".I dont live with wild animals.They have their place,I have mine.If in your area the buried caches are ALL safe thats nice.I would find that kinda hard to believe.You even stated you have stepped on your fair share of them.Plastic bags with sticks is also frowned upon and would probably not be approved either,so thats not a good point.

 

It is a theory, not a "theory".

 

I can't claim all caches over here are safe, just as you can't claim that all caches in your area, that may or may not bee hidden according to the guidelines, are safe! What matters is that caches are placed and treated with respect to the spirit of the rules by the cache owner, geocachers and the reviewers. If this leaves enough leeway to hide a cache underground when appropriate, I don't see the problem.

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

Are you just trying to find an excuse to justify your point?If that remark was serious then might I suggest you grow a hollow tree instead.

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

Are you just trying to find an excuse to justify your point?If that remark was serious then might I suggest you grow a hollow tree instead.

 

I have to admit the growing hollow trees would be a fantastic solution, if possible... :wub:

 

But I'll take my argument even one step further:

 

 

This local rule would even prohibit placing a cache according to your interpretation of the rules as placing a cache in the ground would definitely disturb the soil, vegation or possibly stones, certainly when stones are used to cover up the cache to form a SPOR (suspicious pile of rocks).

 

I have absolutely no problem with the rules that the area enforces, it would just mean that there probably won't be many caches placed. I certainly wouldn't want to place one there.

Edited by Team Juniper
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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

Are you just trying to find an excuse to justify your point?If that remark was serious then might I suggest you grow a hollow tree instead.

 

I have to admit the growing hollow trees would be a fantastic solution, if possible... :wub:

 

But I'll take my argument even one step further:

 

 

This local rule would even prohibit placing a cache according to your interpretation of the rules as placing a cache in the ground would definitely disturb the soil, vegation or possibly stones, certainly when stones are used to cover up the cache to form a SPOR (suspicious pile of rocks).

 

I have absolutely no problem with the rules that the area enforces, I would just mean that there probably won't be many caches placed, I certainly wouldn't want to place one there.

The amout of caches placed is not limited by not being able to bury them.It is only limited by the imagination or creativity of the people who hide them within the guidlines of the game.There are hundreds of caches in my area and none are buried.Dont let the rule hold you back from making caches,use you imagination and create them according to the rules.I feel the caches that people put alot of thought into are the best. :grin:

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

 

Yes, but this is exactly the point :wub: that I'm trying to make: the rule doesn't work in its current form.

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

 

In the scenario described, it also doesn't indicate where the sand came from.

 

This is a classic example of placing a cache in a manner which might "technically follow the rules" without regard for the spirit of the rule. So maybe you didn't have to dig a hole where the cache was placed but I don't think digging a hole elsewhere to obtain material to cover the cache where it's placed is the kind of behavior that Groundspeak would want to condone when they wrote the guideline.

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

I feel we are just not getting through.This type of unwillingness to follow the rules is the type of attitude that is bad for this game.

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

double post..oops

Edited by chachi44089
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The amout of caches placed is not limited by not being able to bury them.It is only limited by the imagination or creativity of the people who hide them within the guidlines of the game.There are hundreds of caches in my area and none are buried.Dont let the rule hold you back from making caches,use you imagination and create them according to the rules.I feel the caches that people put alot of thought into are the best. :wub:

 

To this I can almost agree 100%, just that sometimes, as with the cache I already mentioned, things might need to be buried if appropriate.

 

A lot of thought was put into this cache. It is a multicache in beautiful, protected surroundings and the cache owner had a lot of imagination because all WPs have ingenious puzzles:

  • A PVC tube containing all kinds of plastic animals mounted on the inside and you have to spot the correct number of a certain animal
  • A musical device, for which you need to bring a battery, that plays a song you need to recognize
  • etc...

All these are hidden in PVC tubes in the ground capped by little stumps. Hiding these sometimes fragile puzzles above ground almost wouldn't be possible and certainly wouldn't be the best solution in my view.

Link to comment
Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

I feel we are just not getting through.This type of unwillingness to follow the rules is the type of attitude that is bad for this game.

 

Apparently it is so bad for the game that all these fantastic, buried and thus illegal, caches get placed over here that thousands of geocachers enjoy and that bother absolutely no one except someone that interprets the rules in a very strict manner.

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Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.

E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.

Exactly where did we come from?

It is not about"where we are from".Its about where we are.

Exactly.

We are in our environment, not there environment, ours, us and the non humans*, ours.

But that's only an extremely broad term.

If a Detroiter came to my area, then they are not in their environment.

Well I suppose they could be in their environment, if they could walk here spend at least a half hour and walk back without interrupting their normal sleep cycle.

If I define my environment by the maximum distance I have regularly walked, 16 miles one way, then I have en environment that encompasses slightly over 800 square miles.

Granted if you remove all the space that I'm not allowed to occupy I still share a lot of the environment with the non humans.

 

* I use non human in this post because we are animals, not because I'm an econutter.

 

<disclaimer> This post in no way condones the digging of holes on property that has not been condoned by the land Manager/Owner of said property.</disclaimer>

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Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

I feel we are just not getting through.This type of unwillingness to follow the rules is the type of attitude that is bad for this game.

 

Apparently it is so bad for the game that all these fantastic, buried and thus illegal, caches get placed over here that thousands of geocachers enjoy and that bother absolutely no one except someone that interprets the rules in a very strict manner.

 

It's just a matter of the wrong person finding it and being bothered by it. It was a single buried geocache that precipitated the US National Park Service's ban on geocaching and outlawed it on over 88 million acres of NPS managed lands. Is burying a cache really worth the risk? Especially when there are so many other ways of hiding a cache. Burying just shows a lack of imagination.

Edited by briansnat
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read the geo creed code !!! http://geocreed.info/

 

The geocreed has nothing to do with Groundspeak or the guidelines. It's a nice idea, I guess, but it's not something that anybody is actually obligated to follow. I don't like the subtle implications behind the word "creed," so it's not something I would ever spread around to new cachers.

 

Direct new geocachers to the guidelines.

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I have seen local governments establish guidelines for cache placements that are more strict and clear about what you can and cannot do with placements. And of course those rules should all be followed if you are placing a cache in areas that are subject to those rules.

 

The rules we all use for placements are ambiguous about items that are placed at least partially in the ground. So long as the hole was not excavated with tools, and the top of the cache is not underground, and no other placement rules were violated, I think it is a legitimate placement.

 

I understand that others do not necessarily agree with that position, but this is a situation where I believe that reasonable people can agree to disagree.

Link to comment
Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

I feel we are just not getting through.This type of unwillingness to follow the rules is the type of attitude that is bad for this game.

 

Apparently it is so bad for the game that all these fantastic, buried and thus illegal, caches get placed over here that thousands of geocachers enjoy and that bother absolutely no one except someone that interprets the rules in a very strict manner.

Yes it is.Just like you said"buried and thus illigal".I dont care if they are fantastic.I play by the rules as not to ruin the game for my fellow players by ignoring them.

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The guidelines are interesting in this respect

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate

 

While they say that a cache may be quickly archive if it is buried they go on to give an example of using a shovel, trowel, or other "pointy" object to dig in order to hide or to find a cache.

 

Mostly everyone agrees that baring some local land manager's rule you can bury a cache under rocks or loose leaves. Perhaps you can even used loose soil and sand if you move it with only your hands. And most everyone agrees you can hide a cache in an existing hole. Many wil also agree, if the soil is soft or sandy you might be able push part of a cache into the ground or use a stake to anchor your cache. It doesn't seem to imply you can have caches embedded in the ground or covered by natural materials. It simple seems to want to prevent people from digging up places where they shouldn't be digging. Because some land managers know that if geocachers find a certain kind of hide in one place there might look for the same style somewhere else (or try to replicate it somewhere else). In order to discourage digging in places where it is inappropriate, the guideline try to restrict everywhere. There are cleary places where a hider has permission to dig to create a hiding place. While these should be discouraged to prevent copycats, it seems that sometimes they are allowed. (Most of the guidelines have exceptions).

 

The issue is often what to do if you find a cache that apears to violate a guideline. Some people prefer to assume that the cacher had permission, and some will assume that there was no permission. The hider certainly doesn't want to put on the cache page "This cache is buried with permission" so it is hard to tell.

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I have seen local governments establish guidelines for cache placements that are more strict and clear about what you can and cannot do with placements. And of course those rules should all be followed if you are placing a cache in areas that are subject to those rules.

 

The rules we all use for placements are ambiguous about items that are placed at least partially in the ground. So long as the hole was not excavated with tools, and the top of the cache is not underground, and no other placement rules were violated, I think it is a legitimate placement.

 

I understand that others do not necessarily agree with that position, but this is a situation where I believe that reasonable people can agree to disagree.

I can go along with that.Placing one in a divit or depression and brushing some leave and debris over it.I only have an issue with using a shovel and burying wood boxes or buckets.

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The guidelines are interesting in this respect

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate

 

While they say that a cache may be quickly archive if it is buried they go on to give an example of using a shovel, trowel, or other "pointy" object to dig in order to hide or to find a cache.

 

Mostly everyone agrees that baring some local land manager's rule you can bury a cache under rocks or loose leaves. Perhaps you can even used loose soil and sand if you move it with only your hands. And most everyone agrees you can hide a cache in an existing hole. Many wil also agree, if the soil is soft or sandy you might be able push part of a cache into the ground or use a stake to anchor your cache. It doesn't seem to imply you can have caches embedded in the ground or covered by natural materials. It simple seems to want to prevent people from digging up places where they shouldn't be digging. Because some land managers know that if geocachers find a certain kind of hide in one place there might look for the same style somewhere else (or try to replicate it somewhere else). In order to discourage digging in places where it is inappropriate, the guideline try to restrict everywhere. There are cleary places where a hider has permission to dig to create a hiding place. While these should be discouraged to prevent copycats, it seems that sometimes they are allowed. (Most of the guidelines have exceptions).

 

The issue is often what to do if you find a cache that apears to violate a guideline. Some people prefer to assume that the cacher had permission, and some will assume that there was no permission. The hider certainly doesn't want to put on the cache page "This cache is buried with permission" so it is hard to tell.

Nicely stated.

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The issue is often what to do if you find a cache that apears to violate a guideline. Some people prefer to assume that the cacher had permission, and some will assume that there was no permission. The hider certainly doesn't want to put on the cache page "This cache is buried with permission" so it is hard to tell.

This shouldn't matter. If you report a cache like this to the Reviewer, then they should know if there was permission, or can find out if there was. No harm there. At least you have brought it to the Reviewer's attention, so the appropriate actions can be taken. If no one lets the Reviewer know, then they can't do anything about it.

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Some examples that come to mind are the cache in the ground mentioned in this thread, or similar cache hidden in grass, caches hidden in electrical boxes etc. Just places they shouldn't be and if you know they aren't there, you won't resort to searching there and risking danger or damage.

 

Have you been reviewing my latest finds? I think you just described every cache I did in our area lately. Ok maybe only 2... Agreed though. As much as I was happy to find "Don't Tread On Me" I wondered about whether its placement was a good idea. I had totally discounted that idea based on the rule in this thread.

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I have seen local governments establish guidelines for cache placements that are more strict and clear about what you can and cannot do with placements. And of course those rules should all be followed if you are placing a cache in areas that are subject to those rules.

 

The rules we all use for placements are ambiguous about items that are placed at least partially in the ground. So long as the hole was not excavated with tools, and the top of the cache is not underground, and no other placement rules were violated, I think it is a legitimate placement.

 

I understand that others do not necessarily agree with that position, but this is a situation where I believe that reasonable people can agree to disagree.

Ok, then I'll agree to disagree. Case closed, at least for me.

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I always get a kick out of those that forget that humans are God's creatures too. That somehow it's ok for the bears and deer to crap in the woods, the rodents and rabbits can destroy vegitation, but we must cleanup after our dogs and walk through woods leaving no trace. You over-reacting greenies understand my point too.. I am not advocating that we destroy the planet but the notion that leaving your dog crap lying in the woods or poking some hole in the ground being bad is ludicrous. The greatest comment was the one about the park looking like the face of the moon. I actually spit coffee on my screen.. thanks for that.

 

BINGO! I agree with you wholeheartedly!

 

However...

 

The issue isn't whether the little hole I dug to hide a cache is going to alter natural selection and cause the extinction of some endangered species. (One that was going to die out anyway since it was poorly adapted to it's environment.)

 

The issue is whether the land manager who might ban Geocaching in his area thinks holes dug on 'his' land are a bad thing.

Perception is reality.

Humans (Although they do possess the special quality of foreseeing the consequences of their actions) are (typically) very short-sighted.

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Apparently it is so bad for the game that all these fantastic, buried and thus illegal, caches get placed over here that thousands of geocachers enjoy and that bother absolutely no one except someone that interprets the rules in a very strict manner.

 

Yeah, those crazy reviewers and their crazy guidelines. Crazy I tell you.

 

So, have you put out any of those fantastic buried caches?

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I'm with Briansnat on this one.

Burying caches just shows a lack of imagination, and opens up the possibility of some land manager creating a new ban on caches on land he controls.

It's not worth the risk of losing more areas for us to play our game, just so someone can place a cache without having to use their imagination and creativity.

Many times folks who want to support the burying of caches use the "they are squashing my creativity" line as support for their cause. How about showing enough creativity to find a way to hide that cache without burying it?

I've seen some really cool ways of hiding a cache in plain sight that are very difficult to find without learning to think outside the box. Now those are creative!

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Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.

E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.

Exactly where did we come from?

 

THANK YOU. This whole notion that humans are just here visiting warrant many comments and four letter words that would get me banned.

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Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.

E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.

Exactly where did we come from?

 

THANK YOU. This whole notion that humans are just here visiting warrant many comments and four letter words that would get me banned.

 

So you were born in the woods, I take it? You gather your food there and sleep in your den under a rock?

Link to comment
Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

So, if I place my cache container on the ground, build a wooden box around it with a hatch, bring enough sand to cover it up when I dump it over it, I'm technically following the rules since I haven't used something pointy and someone that finds the cache also doesn't have to use something pointy since he can just open the hatch that is covered in a very thin film of sand.

 

How is that different from burying the same box flush with the ground?

 

What if you bring in a power washer and use the jet of water do excavate a hole? You aren't using a pointy object. What if you let your dog dig the hole? You didn't do it. You can go on and on with the what ifs. The fact of the matter is that most park managers don't want people digging up their parks. I also doubt they would be thrilled with someone dumping a load of sand in the park.

I feel we are just not getting through.This type of unwillingness to follow the rules is the type of attitude that is bad for this game.

 

We can sit here and chit chat all you want. Show me real world examples, beyond the one-off knucklehead, where buried caches are either ruining the game or jeopardizing the game..

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Apparently it is so bad for the game that all these fantastic, buried and thus illegal, caches get placed over here that thousands of geocachers enjoy and that bother absolutely no one except someone that interprets the rules in a very strict manner.

 

Yeah, those crazy reviewers and their crazy guidelines. Crazy I tell you.

 

So, have you put out any of those fantastic buried caches?

Not yet, but I'm thinking about it for my next one. My current ones are mostly of the SPOR type and one tennis ball in a hole in a tree. But this is the point I'm trying to make: I too try to follow the rules, as my current hides show, but I've seen perfect examples where burying is the best option, so who knows, I might encounter such a situation in the future.

 

I'm currently trying to decide between the box in the ground method that is very common around where I live or hiding it in a fake birdhouse (also a method frequently used here) and attach that to a tree/bush. The second one has my preference, but attaching it to a tree would probably involve nails/screws which I guess could also be against the rules?

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Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.

E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.

Exactly where did we come from?

 

THANK YOU. This whole notion that humans are just here visiting warrant many comments and four letter words that would get me banned.

 

So you were born in the woods, I take it? You gather your food there and sleep in your den under a rock?

 

Nice strawman.

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I'm with Briansnat on this one.

Burying caches just shows a lack of imagination, and opens up the possibility of some land manager creating a new ban on caches on land he controls.

It's not worth the risk of losing more areas for us to play our game, just so someone can place a cache without having to use their imagination and creativity.

Many times folks who want to support the burying of caches use the "they are squashing my creativity" line as support for their cause. How about showing enough creativity to find a way to hide that cache without burying it?

I've seen some really cool ways of hiding a cache in plain sight that are very difficult to find without learning to think outside the box. Now those are creative!

I don't think it is a lack of imagination, just the application of common sense. I've seen my share of caches that are hidden according to the rules, especially in urban surroundings, where the creativity of the hide is the cause of geocachers tearing up the surroundings and causing damage to property too, maybe not a tree or ground, but still damage.

 

So for me the whole 'burying causes damage and might get geocaching banned' argument is moot, since the same applies to all non buried caches too. You could hide a bloody magnetic nano in a lamp post in the parking lot of your local ACME and get geocaching banned on their properties worldwide. Same effect, even though the cache wasn't buried.

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Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.

E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.

Exactly where did we come from?

 

THANK YOU. This whole notion that humans are just here visiting warrant many comments and four letter words that would get me banned.

 

So you were born in the woods, I take it? You gather your food there and sleep in your den under a rock?

I can't speak for bflentje, but I hint and I am a fan of Euell Gibbons.

Because of his books "wild" food is a weekly part of my diet during the winter and and the frequency increases according to the season.

 

You questions translate like this to me.

Hospitals, houses and supermarkets are my only environment.

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Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.

E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.

Exactly where did we come from?

 

THANK YOU. This whole notion that humans are just here visiting warrant many comments and four letter words that would get me banned.

 

So you were born in the woods, I take it? You gather your food there and sleep in your den under a rock?

 

Nice strawman.

 

I'm just asking for clarification. If you don't want to expose the gaping holes in your logic, that's cool too.

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Animals can dig all the holes they want,its their environment.We are just visitors.

E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.

Exactly where did we come from?

 

THANK YOU. This whole notion that humans are just here visiting warrant many comments and four letter words that would get me banned.

 

So you were born in the woods, I take it? You gather your food there and sleep in your den under a rock?

I can't speak for bflentje, but I hint and I am a fan of Euell Gibbons.

Because of his books "wild" food is a weekly part of my diet during the winter and and the frequency increases according to the season.

 

You questions translate like this to me.

Hospitals, houses and supermarkets are my only environment.

 

There's no translating needed. It's a simple question(s): Were you born in the woods? Do you gather your food there and sleep in a den under a rock?

 

Your translation contains an absolute "are my only" that mine does not.

 

Unless your spending a significant portion of your time out in the wild, you are not "living" there. it is not your native "environment" you are just visiting.

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Apparently it is so bad for the game that all these fantastic, buried and thus illegal, caches get placed over here that thousands of geocachers enjoy and that bother absolutely no one except someone that interprets the rules in a very strict manner.

 

Yeah, those crazy reviewers and their crazy guidelines. Crazy I tell you.

 

So, have you put out any of those fantastic buried caches?

Not yet, but I'm thinking about it for my next one. My current ones are mostly of the SPOR type and one tennis ball in a hole in a tree. But this is the point I'm trying to make: I too try to follow the rules, as my current hides show, but I've seen perfect examples where burying is the best option, so who knows, I might encounter such a situation in the future.

 

I'm currently trying to decide between the box in the ground method that is very common around where I live or hiding it in a fake birdhouse (also a method frequently used here) and attach that to a tree/bush. The second one has my preference, but attaching it to a tree would probably involve nails/screws which I guess could also be against the rules?

 

So will you be telling your review these details if/when you make these hides?

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There's no translating needed. It's a simple question(s): Were you born in the woods? Do you gather your food there and sleep in a den under a rock?

 

Your translation contains an absolute "are my only" that mine does not.

 

Unless your spending a significant portion of your time out in the wild, you are not "living" there. it is not your native "environment" you are just visiting.

 

For me there is no distinction. There is only 1 global environment that all animals, of which humans are just 1 species, inhabit together. No one is visiting anyone, from whatever direction (human <-> horse <-> beaver <-> mosquito <-> ...) you look at it.

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Apparently it is so bad for the game that all these fantastic, buried and thus illegal, caches get placed over here that thousands of geocachers enjoy and that bother absolutely no one except someone that interprets the rules in a very strict manner.

 

Yeah, those crazy reviewers and their crazy guidelines. Crazy I tell you.

 

So, have you put out any of those fantastic buried caches?

Not yet, but I'm thinking about it for my next one. My current ones are mostly of the SPOR type and one tennis ball in a hole in a tree. But this is the point I'm trying to make: I too try to follow the rules, as my current hides show, but I've seen perfect examples where burying is the best option, so who knows, I might encounter such a situation in the future.

 

I'm currently trying to decide between the box in the ground method that is very common around where I live or hiding it in a fake birdhouse (also a method frequently used here) and attach that to a tree/bush. The second one has my preference, but attaching it to a tree would probably involve nails/screws which I guess could also be against the rules?

 

So will you be telling your review these details if/when you make these hides?

 

I'll probably really start a flame war now, but I'll give a reviewer all the necessary information that is requested/required, but I don't think it really matters since the local reviewers seem to follow the spirit of the rules when I see the bulk of the caches that gets approved over here.

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There's no translating needed. It's a simple question(s): Were you born in the woods? Do you gather your food there and sleep in a den under a rock?

 

Your translation contains an absolute "are my only" that mine does not.

 

Unless your spending a significant portion of your time out in the wild, you are not "living" there. it is not your native "environment" you are just visiting.

 

For me there is no distinction. There is only 1 global environment that all animals, of which humans are just 1 species, inhabit together. No one is visiting anyone, from whatever direction (human <-> horse <-> beaver <-> mosquito <-> ...) you look at it.

 

Hey, I'm all for a "one world" point of view, but there are boundaries and there are distinctions. We can share the world with all the creatures, but I'm not going to let the wild animals do their thing (poo, mate, mark territory) in my house and I'm going to try and not do my thing (dig holes, throw down trash, start a forest fire) in the places they call home.

 

But trying to make this a "Eco-hippy-tree-hugging-pink-leftist" stand against buried caches is missing the point and is sending this thread off the rails. The reason we don't dig has already been stated in posts above and if you missed it, you'll never "get it".

 

(Now please stand for a chorus and verse of "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "We Are the World" and "Imagine".)

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