Converting Micro-Haters into Micro-Lovers ---{--@

[+infiniteMPG]

Having to recently write dozens of "Mark item missing" logs for geocoins and TB's from dozens of my caches and having to do major repairs on several regular caches, I am starting to become a micro-lover. Reporting someone's commemorative military geocoin put out in honor of their fallen son is not a fun task to have to do. Actually reporting anyone's fancy geocoin missing kinda s*cks. So does seeing the photos of someone's kid's special toy that Mom and Dad bought a TB tag for and sent out in the wild for other cacher's kids to share end up missing Lots of coins and lots of sentimental stuff probably bouncing around in someone's glove box. And when a regular cache gets stolen or destroyed, it's a good chunk of time and money to buy another ammo can and camo or decorate it, get the log book, pre-stock it with swag, travel out and replace it. Then hide a micro somewhere and catch flack from someone because it wasn't a full sized cache.

 

For some reason I don't have my micros raided. Don't have missing geocoins or TB's in my micros. Rarely have to replace my micros. Even if the camo cover is not done completely correctly micros rarely get muggled. The scrolled up log sheets last for ages in micros. When they do end up missing it's less then $1 to replace them. And for some uniquely odd reason the smiley you get when you find a micro counts just as much as an ammo can find.

 

Not going to even suggesting for anyone to pick micros to hide over full sized caches, but just asking that the micro haters step back and try to comprehend the untold hours and money spent in hiding full sized caches and maintaining them. Hidden with creativity and imagination a micro hide can be as quality as an ammo can. Just being a micro does not automatically make a hide bad... cut the canisters some slack

[+thedeadpirate]

It has nothing to do with the container size. It's all about the placement.

 

Micros can be just as much fun as ammo cans.

 

You can get really creative with a micro and you can be really boring with an ammo can.

 

Good hiders know how to make the best of any size.

 

*** edited to add size.

Edited March 12, 2010 by GeoBain

[+Castle Mischief]

Having to recently write dozens of "Mark item missing" logs for geocoins and TB's from dozens of my caches and having to do major repairs on several regular caches, I am starting to become a micro-lover. Reporting someone's commemorative military geocoin put out in honor of their fallen son is not a fun task to have to do. Actually reporting anyone's fancy geocoin missing kinda s*cks. So does seeing the photos of someone's kid's special toy that Mom and Dad bought a TB tag for and sent out in the wild for other cacher's kids to share end up missing Lots of coins and lots of sentimental stuff probably bouncing around in someone's glove box. And when a regular cache gets stolen or destroyed, it's a good chunk of time and money to buy another ammo can and camo or decorate it, get the log book, pre-stock it with swag, travel out and replace it.

 

I think I've said plenty in the last week about COs marking items missing and I'd like to address this- first, thank you for cleaning up your inventory. There are those of us that really appreciate the effort.

 

Yeah, I hate marking trackables as missing when they vanish from my caches too, but as much as I side on behalf of the trackable owner I have to say this: don't release anything that you value or would be upset if it came up missing. When you let those things out into the wild- Let. Them. Go.

 

Again, thanks.

 

Then hide a micro somewhere and catch flack from someone because it wasn't a full sized cache.

 

Hide what you want to find. If they don't want to find it they can skip it. I like an ammo can as much as the next guy, but if it's the hide you want to make and you're happy with it then go for it (within guidelines, etc).

[+briansnat]

I can't think of many micro haters out there. Oh I'm sure there are a few, but I rarely encounter someone who hates all micros. The term micro is often used as a catchword for caches placed in mundane areas. Since the overwhelming majority of these kinds of caches are micros that is understandable.

 

I think that when most people complain about micros it's not really the size that they have an issue with.

 

Even if the camo cover is not done completely correctly micros rarely get muggled.

 

I've found quite the opposite. Most of my caches that have gone missing were micros and most of the missing caches I encounter are micros. I think it comes from the kinds of places they tend to be hidden

Edited March 12, 2010 by briansnat

[+jgaiser]

It has nothing to do with the container size. It's all about the placement.

 

Micros can be just as much fun a s ammo cans.

 

As a newbie who's found both ammo cans and bison tubes (and a UFC {Ubiquitous Film Can}). I have to agree with this statement. All my micro finds have been fun.

[+9Key]

It has nothing to do with the container size. It's all about the placement.

 

Micros can be just as much fun as ammo cans.

 

You can get really creative with a micro and you can be really boring with an ammo can.

 

Good hiders know how to make the best of any size.

 

*** edited to add size.

I agree. I like the challenge of making a creative ammo can. Something no one has seen before. To me there's not much challenge in hiding or camouflaging a micro.

 

Maintenance is just part of being a hider IMO. You sign up for work when you hide one.

[+infiniteMPG]

Yeah, I hate marking trackables as missing when they vanish from my caches too, but as much as I side on behalf of the trackable owner I have to say this: don't release anything that you value or would be upset if it came up missing. When you let those things out into the wild- Let. Them. Go. Again, thanks.

You're welcome but my caches are part of my geocaching "family" so I don't like having "issues" with them. A few of them adopted but gotta luv 'em just the same I agree but I don't think people realize that when they make something into a TB. And even if they do, having a TB with a bazillion miles on it and then getting it stolen from a TB motel or something just tarnishes all that travel time.

 

Hide what you want to find. If they don't want to find it they can skip it. I like an ammo can as much as the next guy, but if it's the hide you want to make and you're happy with it then go for it (within guidelines, etc).

We just get the occasional log stating "How lame! Such a beautiful spot ruined with a dinky micro hide!". Our reply thought is usually "YOU haul a friggin ammo can 15 miles down the mountain bike trails to hide it then!". <"Reply thought", not reply email or log> At spots like that we usually figure most people won't haul their kids along and we'd rather them have water, sun screen and snacks in their packs then dollar store trade swag.

[+Castle Mischief]

We just get the occasional log stating "How lame! Such a beautiful spot ruined with a dinky micro hide!". Our reply thought is usually "YOU haul a friggin ammo can 15 miles down the mountain bike trails to hide it then!". <"Reply thought", not reply email or log> At spots like that we usually figure most people won't haul their kids along and we'd rather them have water, sun screen and snacks in their packs then dollar store trade swag.

 

I just don't understand that. If you list it as a micro and the hunt it as a micro they have no right to complain when they find... wait for it... a micro. I'd offer them the chance to delete their own log if they feel it tarnished their stats.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I think that Muggle problems stem more from the hide/location rather than the size. Anyway, I think that the biggest problem people have with micros is that there's NOTHING to trade in them. That's not the fault of the hider, but just a lack of creativity on the part of the finders. People claim that nothing will fit in them, but that's way off base. I've come up with all kinds of interesting little trinkets and gamepieces that I can leave in anything bigger than a bison tube, so finding them is not as bad for me. That doesn't mean I don't get tired of them sometimes. It would be nicer if more folks would think of things to leave in them.

[+infiniteMPG]

I just don't understand that. If you list it as a micro and the hunt it as a micro they have no right to complain when they find... wait for it... a micro. I'd offer them the chance to delete their own log if they feel it tarnished their stats.

LOL.... totally agree. But we have people that still log the complaint which also lead to a friend hiding one dedicated to whiners... same people who wear the shirts like "Film canisters are to Geocaching, what Kudzu is to plants"... should be "Film canisters, decons, bison tubes, lock-n-locks and ammo cans hidden with no creativity are to Geocaching, what Kudzu is to plants" but it could only come in an XXL to fit it all on.

 

I think that Muggle problems stem more from the hide/location rather than the size. Anyway, I think that the biggest problem people have with micros is that there's NOTHING to trade in them. That's not the fault of the hider, but just a lack of creativity on the part of the finders. People claim that nothing will fit in them, but that's way off base. I've come up with all kinds of interesting little trinkets and gamepieces that I can leave in anything bigger than a bison tube, so finding them is not as bad for me. That doesn't mean I don't get tired of them sometimes. It would be nicer if more folks would think of things to leave in them.

Not everyone trades swag. We do trackables and find caches, we don't deal dollar store stuff. I'll pre-stock with it but to us that's draw for kids. And many caches aren't where kids will be. As far as micros I have been meaning to stock one of mine, it's a shark themed micro hidden very well near a.... well, near a shark, and have been meaning to run down and put some shark teeth in the container. Micro swag

[+t4e]

 

To me there's not much challenge in hiding or camouflaging a micro.

 

 

you are very wrong about that

 

a micro will go where no ammocan ever will

 

there are very few people that put the effort into making a creative/difficult hide out of anything bigger than a micro, mostly is in a stump, under a pile of wood...i.e. predictable

sure there's micros that just hang on a tree etc...

 

overall i believe a micro allows for more creativity than a bigger container

 

again, what people choose to do and how much effort put into a hide is a different story

 

at the end of the day is a matter of opinion, and those that choose to make such comments as mentioned above, about a micro being lame in a place where a larger container would have fit, only makes them look foolish...they would know ahead of time that it will be a micro yet they chose to hunt for it, so they just called their own find "lame"

[+leatherman]

I truly enjoyed a series of caches by Dr. Ufo Koska. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...94-827dc7980da2

 

I was spoiled by his evil genius. I haven't seen anyone of his caliber since. I find it difficult to search for mundane micros now.

 

I also have a three year old that would find nothing entertaining about standing around while I search for a small bison. Especially to find no toys in it. My pup never liked waiting for me either.

 

Micros are fine, however they are omitted from my quaries now a days.

[+L0ne.R]

We just get the occasional log stating "How lame! Such a beautiful spot ruined with a dinky micro hide!". Our reply thought is usually "YOU haul a friggin ammo can 15 miles down the mountain bike trails to hide it then!". <"Reply thought", not reply email or log> At spots like that we usually figure most people won't haul their kids along and we'd rather them have water, sun screen and snacks in their packs then dollar store trade swag.

 

Maybe they were hoping for a creative micro hide. Was it creative? Most people don't mind a micro if it's clever or unique or crafty, or if it's put in a scenic location where a larger cache won't fit.

 

Most people enjoy swag, even if they generally don't trade. There's something about the pirate treasure aspect that's fun. Looking through the contents is satisfying. It's even better when COs keep the cache replenished and clean on a regular basis.

 

I wouldn't worry about the bulk of swag that finders carry. I don't know anyone who likes to trade geoswag, who grumbles about carrying geoswag or having to make a decision between swag or water/sunscreen/snacks.

[+ltlpink]

I admit at first I was not happy with micros. However I have modified that attitude now and sort of like some of them.

I would add, however, That I think a new catagory may be needed. There must be someway to divide nano from just smaller that a small.

Small lock and locks are often put in with micros as are pill bottles, film canisters and key holders. These require a different type of hunting than does a bison tube or a nano the size of a jelly bean or smaller.

I personally would appreciate having some idea of the actual size of the hide.

Maybe a new size catagory under small.

ltlpinko

[knowschad]

I understand that Snoogans is a HasidicDiamond Merchant by profession. I would think that a little back-room chat and a little $$$ would go a long ways toward converting micro haters.

[+leatherman]

Small lock and locks are often put in with micros as are pill bottles, film canisters and key holders. These require a different type of hunting than does a bison tube or a nano the size of a jelly bean or smaller.

I personally would appreciate having some idea of the actual size of the hide.

Maybe a new size category under small.

 

Now I disagree. If it's to small to trade it's a micro. Small caches have room to trade.

 

A lock n lock with a folded up paper is a micro, as well as a bison with a rolled up nano scroll.

 

If it doesn't accommodate trade items, other than coins and such, micro. If it accomodates small trade items than it's a small.

[knowschad]

Small lock and locks are often put in with micros as are pill bottles, film canisters and key holders. These require a different type of hunting than does a bison tube or a nano the size of a jelly bean or smaller.

I personally would appreciate having some idea of the actual size of the hide.

Maybe a new size category under small.

 

Now I disagree. If it's to small to trade it's a micro. Small caches have room to trade.

 

A lock n lock with a folded up paper is a micro, as well as a bison with a rolled up nano scroll.

 

If it doesn't accommodate trade items, other than coins and such, micro. If it accomodates small trade items than it's a small.

Yup. A small allows at least for the trading of coins and small items. A micro only has room for a log and maybe a pencil. That's the law. (well, maybe not the law, but you get my drift)

[+kayamycat]

Sometimes you find a micro (like those bolt ones) and you are amazed at the work that the hider put in. Other times you find a simple box magnet in a goofy or boring location and you feel that the hider is just plain lazy. This happens with caches of all shapes and sizes. It seems like it happens in my area with more micros than not.

 

ALL hiders should take care to be more creative. It is the way the game should be played. Don't just take the same old approach to a hide....make it a little more fun than all the other caches. Take pride in the art of the hide.

 

There is a local hider who really changes things up. Some of his micros are right out in the open and they log DNF's all day long. His cleverness is really what inspires me to hide. His finds are like well deserved smileys.

 

If you can't get that creative with your hide....at least bring people there for a good reason....something pretty or historic. Give us something. Not just a film canister in a parking lot/skirt. these ARE great for the numbers but at least give us something really worth it.

 

There are a million active caches. I realize they can't all be Saks 5th Avenue quality....sometimes you gotta have 7-11. Just put them in cool places.

[Clan Riffster]

Just being a micro does not automatically make a hide bad

I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle. For most folks that I've talked with, size is never the real issue. Micros are just the whipping boy. Not because they suck, in and of themselves, but because they are typically the cache size of choice for those folks who place lame, uninspired caches. For those who prefer quality, micros get an additional bad rap in that those same folks who place lame hides seem to feel they can make up for the lameness of their hides by multiplying them a hundred fold.

 

If you must judge, blame the hiders, not the hides.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

There are a million active caches. I realize they can't all be Saks 5th Avenue quality....sometimes you gotta have 7-11. Just put them in cool places.

Well there ya go... most of us will never shop at Saks in our life, but we'll hit the 7-11 (or equivalent) convenience store a couple times a week!

 

What we need is more 7-11 hides!

[+succotash]

Just being a micro does not automatically make a hide bad

I think you're coming at this from the wrong angle. For most folks that I've talked with, size is never the real issue. Micros are just the whipping boy. Not because they suck, in and of themselves, but because they are typically the cache size of choice for those folks who place lame, uninspired caches. For those who prefer quality, micros get an additional bad rap in that those same folks who place lame hides seem to feel they can make up for the lameness of their hides by multiplying them a hundred fold.

 

If you must judge, blame the hiders, not the hides.

 

This is how we see it. We've found some great micros, but we'll never become "micro lovers" because the ratio of ones we like to those we don't is sooooo small. It really seems that some people who place micros have a giant bag of magnetic keyholders, film canisters or other micro containers in their car ready to go. Going shopping? Stick one there. Got a flat tire? Okay, one there too. Stuck in traffic? Jump out and place one. See a spot with four trees and no cache yet? Drop one in.

 

In contrast, our experience with ammo cans is that it's more likely someone has a few, and finds a good spot, and goes back with the can. So, we generally always prefer the overall experience of a larger cache.

 

We completely agree that if the cache page clearly says its a micro, and we know what we're headed for, we don't complain about it being a micro when we get there!

 

Just our experience, just our opinion.

[+edscott]

Agree that micros aren't the real problem for me. It's the unimaginative cache in a trashy or highly muggle infested area that turns me away. It's just a coincidence that most of them happen to also be micros.

[CoyoteRed]

So many misconceptions...

 

Ammo cans are too big to carry on a long hike.

It doesn't seem to be a problem with the caches I've seen. 5 miles in. Rappel down a cliff. Jump boulder to boulder over 3 foot gaps over rapids. Scramble over terrain that requires using hands and feet. Hike along paths with butt hole puckering drops to one side. Nah, I think that's pure justification, an excuse, and not a real reason.

 

Micros allow for more creativity.

True, but almost no one takes advantage of it, so that's not a reason. While I would say it's true that starting out with a micro container allows for more creativity, it's only because you can camouflage it as something smaller than an ammo can. However, this only a red herring, because it's not the objects that which you can make the container look like that is important. The important thing is being able to hide a container in any one particular spot well enough that muggles aren't likely to find it. From that angle it requires more creativity to hide a larger container than it does a micro. I can literally go to any random spot in a forest, close my eyes, reach into my pocket, pull out a micro, and drop it on the ground without even stooping. Mark that waypoint and I've got a cache harder to find than most hidden ammo cans. So, which one takes more creativity to hide?

 

Again, buffalo chips.

 

Only a micro will fit.

Only with very little thought. Try this one. From experience most places like this would only have a micro.

 

I'd say almost all rural micros locations would support a larger cache. Most urban micro locations I've seen would support a larger cache. I'd say it's actually the rare location that would support only a micro. Rarer still is the location that would only support a nano.

 

Every cache is a gift.

Buffalo chips. Just because someone gives me something doesn't mean it's a gift. How about if I dump my garbage cans on your front lawn and call it a gift? Would you smilie and politely accept it? Of course not. You'd probably call the police and try to have me arrested.

 

Well, that is, unless you get some sort of reward for the amount of trash you have picked up on a weekly basis. One smilie for every can of trash. Whoohoo!

 

A lot of caches, which are mostly micros, fall into exactly this category. It would be complete trash except for the smilie you "earn."

 

Folks love micros.

When someone says this, it really means folks love the smilie any old trash gives them. I love a good cache ... regardless of the size. I couldn't care less for the smilie. In fact, some of my favorite caches have been micros. Too bad you rarely seen this kind of quality in micros anymore.

 

If it wasn't for the micro, there wouldn't be any cache there at all.

Translates to "if there wasn't a micro, I'd not be able to get another smilie." True, it's hard to place a decent cache in the middle of a Walmart parking lot and you'd otherwise miss out on the opportunity to not have to walk 100' to another spot where a decent cache could have been placed...

 

I have fun with friends when finding all of these micros.

But not so much by yourself, right? It was the friendship that made the experience tolerable. I suppose it could have been any activity and you'd have had a good time. Do folks place trache so folks can have fun with their friends? Also, does it have to be trache for you to enjoy finding caches with your friends? I prefer decent caches regardless of whether I have company and the company I do have. That's just me.

 

In closing...

I don't hate micros. What I hate is what seems as though micros facilitate lazy placements and placements for the numbers only. This introduces a great deal of noise into the cache population. Unless you hunt for the numbers and especially if you cache for the adventure, this creates an environment where you're bumping into a lot of trashe which wastes your time. That time could have been enjoyed on a placement by someone who really cares about the experience that individual cache provides. I've been able to better my time caching by filtering out everything but small, regular, and large. Will I miss out on decent micros? Sure. The point here being if you pride yourself in placing decent caches and you want the widest audience, don't make it a micro. If you like placing really good micros, you should be a little upset that so many folks place bad caches that are micros that your cache gets filtered with the trache.

 

I personally will likely never place a micro unless absolutely necessary--and I'm not seeing why that would be. I'd continue to hunt the occasional micro in case someone surprises me--which is very rare.

[+edscott]

Well said Coyote Red... I meant all that too but didn't take the time to compose it...

[+Setan Meyacha]

I think one thing some people fail to realize is the affordability factor determining the size and amount of caches a person hides. To place an ammo can-sized cache, stocked properly, is a $20 - $25 investment. To hide a small container, assuming it will hold more than just a few tiny trinkets, is a $5 - up investment. To hide a micro, using a little ingenuity, a $1. or less investment. Unless you're hiding in-town caches close to home there is the added expense of travel to find a hiding place.

For those on SS or other limited income, the choice in container size becomes obvious on a budget already stretched thin.

I do hide some 'lame' guardrail, just beside the road, and other 'lame' location caches that are easily found by those less fortunate who can't get into the 'outback' to search for caches. But, the majority of my caches, micro, small and ammo can, are hidden in more scenic and more difficult places to reach. I get as much enjoyment in hiding caches as I do in finding them, unless they are located in country settings or places of scenic interest.

Guess you could say I'm a fan of the micro; whether hiding them, or finding them.

[+succotash]

I think one thing some people fail to realize is the affordability factor determining the size and amount of caches a person hides. To place an ammo can-sized cache, stocked properly, is a $20 - $25 investment. To hide a small container, assuming it will hold more than just a few tiny trinkets, is a $5 - up investment. To hide a micro, using a little ingenuity, a $1. or less investment. Unless you're hiding in-town caches close to home there is the added expense of travel to find a hiding place.

For those on SS or other limited income, the choice in container size becomes obvious on a budget already stretched thin.

I do hide some 'lame' guardrail, just beside the road, and other 'lame' location caches that are easily found by those less fortunate who can't get into the 'outback' to search for caches. But, the majority of my caches, micro, small and ammo can, are hidden in more scenic and more difficult places to reach. I get as much enjoyment in hiding caches as I do in finding them, unless they are located in country settings or places of scenic interest.

Guess you could say I'm a fan of the micro; whether hiding them, or finding them.

 

The one flaw in this argument is that, as noted several times above, so many micro placers place volumes of them. So even if one micro container costs them $1, by the time one hider has thrown down 30 of them, they've spent more than you suggest one well-stocked ammo can would cost. If a micro is the right thing, and it's a great location and/or a creative hide, that's fine! But in our experience cost can't possibility explain the proliferation of hides that lack either of those attributes. There must be other factors in play.

[Clan Riffster]

To hide a micro, using a little ingenuity, a $1. or less investment.

A good point. Something else I've noticed is that those folks who spew out micros everywhere they can, seem to favor those containers which experience has shown to be less able to protect their contents. While I do find the occasional crappy regular and small, by far, the majority of the crappy containers I've seen have been micros, either black & grey film cans, hide-a-keys and/or Altoids tins, none of which are suitable for any environment with more than an average 0.01% humidity. A good rule of thumb I like to babble: If your container requires a ziplock to protect its log, your cache has already failed at a very basic level. With match safes costing $0.88, and preforms costing about $0.60, (both having excellent track records in all environments), I can't see any reason folks would intentionally select a crappy container to present to the world, unless they simply don't care. By taking pride in our hides, regardless of size, soggy logs could mostly become a thing of the past.

[GOF and Bacall]

Just the way I see it but...

 

...A micro in a great location is cool. Like the LPC on the dock next to the historic fire boat. It had a great writeup and the location was interesting. I enjoyed it.

 

...Yet one more micro under a lamp skirt in a Wally World parkinglot or worse another SDV is a waste of even a film can.

 

(SDV=Scenic Dumpster Vista)

[+DENelson83]

If you want people to love micros, don't MIF 'em by putting micros in forests.

[+thedeadpirate]

If you want people to love micros, don't MIF 'em by putting micros in forests.

 

Good point.

[+Kit Fox]

 

To me there's not much challenge in hiding or camouflaging a micro.

 

 

you are very wrong about that

 

a micro will go where no ammocan ever will

 

there are very few people that put the effort into making a creative/difficult hide out of anything bigger than a micro, mostly is in a stump, under a pile of wood...i.e. predictable

sure there's micros that just hang on a tree etc...

 

overall i believe a micro allows for more creativity than a bigger container

 

again, what people choose to do and how much effort put into a hide is a different story

 

 

Apparently you haven't met a geocacher who actuallys put a bit of effort into a regular sized cache.

 

30 cal ammo can:

 

 

 

Regarding the original poster, it isn't the size of the cache that determines the percentage of missing trackables / swag, it is the proximity to parking. Easy access caches have a greater number of trackables disappearing, and a higher degridation of swag. I also attribute missing trackables to thoughtless cachers who create "hotels" in piss poor areas (visible to the general public, houses, ease of access.)

Edited March 13, 2010 by Kit Fox

[+Setan Meyacha]

To hide a micro, using a little ingenuity, a $1. or less investment.

A good point. Something else I've noticed is that those folks who spew out micros everywhere they can, seem to favor those containers which experience has shown to be less able to protect their contents. While I do find the occasional crappy regular and small, by far, the majority of the crappy containers I've seen have been micros, either black & grey film cans, hide-a-keys and/or Altoids tins, none of which are suitable for any environment with more than an average 0.01% humidity. A good rule of thumb I like to babble: If your container requires a ziplock to protect its log, your cache has already failed at a very basic level. With match safes costing $0.88, and preforms costing about $0.60, (both having excellent track records in all environments), I can't see any reason folks would intentionally select a crappy container to present to the world, unless they simply don't care. By taking pride in our hides, regardless of size, soggy logs could mostly become a thing of the past.

Actually, I think you missed the point all together. I'm sure there are some who just put a micro somewhere just because it can be placed there. That wasn't the point. The point being, because of the higher cost of placing ammo cans, people on restricted budgets find it easier to 'stay in the game', by placing micro caches over ammo cans or even small caches with trinkets in them. I use used diabetic strip containers; no worry about wet logs unless some idiot doesn't close the lid after signing the log. Not much control over that. As some of my earlier containers (not the type I'm using now) require 'first aid', I replace them with the containers I use now. And I do still hide an occasional ammo can and quite a few small containers; most not containing dollar store junk. I guess the question is: if I lived in your area would you prefer I only hide one or two caches a year (ammo cans), or quite a few more using micro caches in quality places?

That question wasn't for the 'micro haters'...the ones who ignore all micros!

Edited March 13, 2010 by Setan Meyacha

[+L0ne.R]

I guess the question is: if I lived in your area would you prefer I only hide one or two caches a year (ammo cans), or quite a few more using micro caches in quality places?

That question wasn't for the 'micro haters'...the ones who ignore all micros!

 

Me, I'd say 1 or 2 ammo cans.

 

I'm not a micro hater --- I like creative micros. I do not like micros placed simply because they cost nothing to produce.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Lone R

[GOF and Bacall]

Any cache in a quality location. The problem is that some large percentage of the micro caches are not in those locations. I find that most of the people I talk to that filter out micros don't hate micros. They dislike parking lot hides and scenic dumpster vistas. The few good micro hides they miss are worth the price to avoid the rest.

 

Someone brought up a rating system. The award system that has been mentioned in other threads is a better idea. The problem with a simple rating system is that what you think is a great cache is not the same as what I think. A system that said "Those who rated this cache highly also liked these caches." would be a better system.

[+edscott]

If you want people to love micros, don't MIF 'em by putting micros in forests.

 

I see nothing wrong with forest micros as long as the data is correct, but it is nice to avoid making the hide both evil and in the woods. I prefer a woods micro to a micro in the shrubbery, at a shopping mall, or stuck to a tank in front of the VFW...

[+L0ne.R]

Any cache in a quality location. The problem is that some large percentage of the micro caches are not in those locations. I find that most of the people I talk to that filter out micros don't hate micros. They dislike parking lot hides and scenic dumpster vistas. The few good micro hides they miss are worth the price to avoid the rest.

 

Someone brought up a rating system. The award system that has been mentioned in other threads is a better idea. The problem with a simple rating system is that what you think is a great cache is not the same as what I think. A system that said "Those who rated this cache highly also liked these caches." would be a better system.

 

I would like a rating/award system that was filterable.

[Clan Riffster]

Actually, I think you missed the point all together.

Uh... OK. I thought your "point", at that point in the thread, was to indicate that some folks place micros because they are less expensive, and it would be better to have bunches of these less expensive hides than just a couple bigger hides. In fact, I was so sure that this was your "point", that I mostly agreed with your logic. Where did I go wrong?

 

I then expressed an opinion that many micro hiders, for reasons entirely their own, choose to use crappy micro containers, rather than spending somewhere between $0.60 and $0.88 for a quality micro container, which, in no way contradicted your "point". My opinion did not diverge into why someone might place gobs of caches.

 

If I lived in your area would you prefer I only hide one or two caches a year (ammo cans), or quite a few more using micro caches in quality places?

I prefer quality over quantity, so I'd pick the two ammo cans, hands down.

[+geodarts]

I am an ammo can in the woods kind of cacher. However, I have a few micro hides - one of them seems to be the most visited traditional cache in California and was placed where a larger container would not work. But I have never walked down the street and looked at a lamp post, newspaper stand, non-descript bush, fence post, large green electrical box, or the like and thought "this spot is crying out for a cache."

 

I have had gecoins go missing in micros. And have seen micros go missing far more than ammo cans. Still, my favorite cache of the day was a micro placed in a wonderful, magical spot that made me appreciate all that caching can be in it's finer moments.

 

If I am out with friends on a numbers run, even the guard rail is appreciated. The nano might be tolerated. But the ammo can is like seeing an old friend. In the end, for me, it's not about the container or the search, but where those things take me. If a micro brings me there, that's fine - like signing a register on top of a peak. More often than not, however, it's much more forgettable.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Erickson

[4wheelin_fool]

I don't really care about the swag or trackables, but I would like to see a return of full size logbooks with cachers leaving a paragraph or so. I really don't care for the sign in sheets on micros.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I don't really care about the swag or trackables, but I would like to see a return of full size logbooks with cachers leaving a paragraph or so. I really don't care for the sign in sheets on micros.

I agree. Players are so used to them, they they now do the same thing in regular logbooks. I hace a nice hardbound book in one of my Caches, and sometime in 2007, everything abruptly went from nice little notes/stories to just names and dates. It kinda makes me feel like I've wasted the book.

[+briansnat]

Small lock and locks are often put in with micros as are pill bottles, film canisters and key holders. These require a different type of hunting than does a bison tube or a nano the size of a jelly bean or smaller.

I personally would appreciate having some idea of the actual size of the hide.

Maybe a new size category under small.

 

Now I disagree. If it's to small to trade it's a micro. Small caches have room to trade.

 

A lock n lock with a folded up paper is a micro, as well as a bison with a rolled up nano scroll.

 

If it doesn't accommodate trade items, other than coins and such, micro. If it accomodates small trade items than it's a small.

 

I've hidden a number of micros with trade items. You can fit quite a lot in a film canister. Coins, jewelery, pins, currency, fishing tackle.

Edited March 14, 2010 by briansnat

[+briansnat]

 

I do hide some 'lame' guardrail, just beside the road, and other 'lame' location caches that are easily found by those less fortunate who can't get into the 'outback' to search for caches. But, the majority of my caches, micro, small and ammo can, are hidden in more scenic and more difficult places to reach.

 

Why do the "less fortunate" have to be stuck with lame locations? Why not place micros in scenic or interesting locations that are accessible to the "less fortunate"? I'm sure that because someone is less fortunate doesn't necessarily mean that all he wants out of geocaching is to visit strip malls, dumpsters and non-descript guardrails.

Edited March 14, 2010 by briansnat

[+Matt_B_Good]

I don't mind a micro here and there but how many of them there are it just kind of gets sickening. I like to see all the odd things people left and have a chance at grabbing a trackable. I do hate when the trackable goes missing but that is part of the territory. Yes it sucks but it is out of my hands. Even many micros do have a chance of containing a trackable. Some trackables do fit inside a film canister and even a matchstick container. Since learning this Micros have become more enjoyable but they do get sickening. An ammo box is nice but you don't need to use something that expensive. there are plenty of other types of containers that do the trick. most of my hides are small caches. Usually I start it out with a log and one or two very cheap trade items and sometimes a trackable. Cachers should NEVER put anything in a Geocache that really means something to them. I don't like losing a trackable nor do I like my swag traded down or simply taken but I certainly wouldn't risk losing something that was special to me. that would be a very bad idea.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Matt_B_Good

[+Setan Meyacha]

 

I do hide some 'lame' guardrail, just beside the road, and other 'lame' location caches that are easily found by those less fortunate who can't get into the 'outback' to search for caches. But, the majority of my caches, micro, small and ammo can, are hidden in more scenic and more difficult places to reach.

 

Why do the "less fortunate" have to be stuck with lame locations? Why not place micros in scenic or interesting locations that are accessible to the "less fortunate"? I'm sure that because someone is less fortunate doesn't necessarily mean that all he wants out of geocaching is to visit strip malls, dumpsters and non-descript guardrails.

I don't do, nor did I mention, strip malls or dumpsters. I have rarely hidden a cache within the city limits of any town.

[+briansnat]

 

I do hide some 'lame' guardrail, just beside the road, and other 'lame' location caches that are easily found by those less fortunate who can't get into the 'outback' to search for caches. But, the majority of my caches, micro, small and ammo can, are hidden in more scenic and more difficult places to reach.

 

Why do the "less fortunate" have to be stuck with lame locations? Why not place micros in scenic or interesting locations that are accessible to the "less fortunate"? I'm sure that because someone is less fortunate doesn't necessarily mean that all he wants out of geocaching is to visit strip malls, dumpsters and non-descript guardrails.

I don't do, nor did I mention, strip malls or dumpsters. I have rarely hidden a cache within the city limits of any town.

 

Those were just examples of lame locations. It was not an all inclusive list.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Just being a micro does not automatically make a hide bad...

 

No it doesn't. I own a handful of micro caches myself. They are micro for a reason, and are reasonably fun finds for people, in places that are worth a visit even with no cache present. (Reason beyond micro = cheap containers).

 

However, the reality is that the percentages on (what I consider) bad caches are MUCH HIGHER on micro caches then on ammo cans. Sure, there are some uninspired ammo can hides. Ammo can on log along trail in "just another spot along the trail". But it's findable, dry and has some trading potential.

 

Drop a film can (or even a matchsafe) in the crotch of a tree in the same spot, and the positives decline sharply. The worst ammo can cache is C-, the common micro cache is a C-. The few A+ micros can barely offset the rising tide of D and F hides. Wet logs, uninspired locations, "just for the smiley" "we were here" "oh look, it's a LP with no other hide for 500 feet!"

 

Filtering out micros is new for me, but was the only way for me to continue to enjoy caching. The film can in the crotch of an oak in the dump on a Preserve nearby (by the same owner with another tough micro hide in the swamp with the useless hint) was the last straw. I query, I put it in GSAK, I give the micros a quick glance. And mostly i check 'em off and eliminate them.

[+Wooden Cyclist]

I guess there are two items to address here.

 

First, thank you for taking the time to list the missing trackables as missing. Moving trackables is something I enjoy and it is always a disappointment to open a cache and find that the listed trackables are missing.

 

Second. Your case for converting micro haters to micro lovers didn't sway me. I don't hate micros, but I do prefer larger containers. Maintenance of a cache goes with being the owner of a cache. The amount of time used to maintain most caches isn't all that bad. So far I haven't had to list any trackables as missing, but I am sure that will come in time.

 

If you look at the list of caches that I own, you will see that more than 50% are micros. That is about to change. To commemorate my 1000th find I have made a goal to become the change that I want to see. My next five hides will not be micros. That will be followed by a series of ten letterbox hybrids hidden at the request of the manager of several nature preserves that are located across SW Michigan.

 

This hobby of ours benefits from caches of all sizes being hidden, but I feel that a nicely hidden small, regular or large caches add more to the enjoyment of Geocaching than a well hidden micro.

[+Vater_Araignee]

The micro typically reflects American consumer mentality.

Give me tones of cheap crap!

I like volume and lack of expense!

Yeah I'll buy TV A because it is half the price of TV B even tho it only has a quarter of the life span.

I want cheaper now not in the long run.

 

The ACM likes convenience too, hence all the upskirts, guardrails, and dumpsters. Convenient to hide, covenant to find.

 

I'll bet I could start a micro hiding company.

If I keep it cheap enough then they will come in droves and micro a lover would pay by the hour just to sit in a fenced in section opening tins and film canisters to claim smilies.

[+succotash]

I guess there are two items to address here.

 

First, thank you for taking the time to list the missing trackables as missing. Moving trackables is something I enjoy and it is always a disappointment to open a cache and find that the listed trackables are missing.

 

Second. Your case for converting micro haters to micro lovers didn't sway me. I don't hate micros, but I do prefer larger containers. Maintenance of a cache goes with being the owner of a cache. The amount of time used to maintain most caches isn't all that bad. So far I haven't had to list any trackables as missing, but I am sure that will come in time.

 

If you look at the list of caches that I own, you will see that more than 50% are micros. That is about to change. To commemorate my 1000th find I have made a goal to become the change that I want to see. My next five hides will not be micros. That will be followed by a series of ten letterbox hybrids hidden at the request of the manager of several nature preserves that are located across SW Michigan.

 

This hobby of ours benefits from caches of all sizes being hidden, but I feel that a nicely hidden small, regular or large caches add more to the enjoyment of Geocaching than a well hidden micro.

 

Nice post.

 

Your goal is worthy and your letterbox hybrid series sounds great!

[+Simon Mates]

There are a million active caches. I realize they can't all be Saks 5th Avenue quality....sometimes you gotta have 7-11. Just put them in cool places.

Well there ya go... most of us will never shop at Saks in our life, but we'll hit the 7-11 (or equivalent) convenience store a couple times a week!

 

What we need is more 7-11 hides!

 

7-11's should have more light poles