What to do?

[+sledgehampster]

I have several Benchmarks in my area that can't be gotten to. One is on the courthouse dome, one is on a radio tower, etc. My question is this If these structures still exist can they be logged as a find? The one on the old carpet mill smokestack is not allowed as the stack was destroyed years ago. Just a question for opinion and Jeremy to rule on. I don't intend on doing a NGS report as I can only verify the structure it is attached to NOT the disc.

 

Folks tell me there's no P in hamster. Oh yeah, SQUEEZE ONE!

[+embra]

Are you saying the type is a disk that is attached to the radio tower? In most situations the tower (spire, dome, what have you) is the benchmark itself. Even if there is an actual disk on a dome, around here if you can see the dome you can take the find without raising eyebrows.

[+brdad]

Yep, it's find just like this Lighthouse

 

Just because the GPS knows where it is does not mean you do!

[+Black Dog Trackers]

There are two kinds of PIDs on high structures:

 

1. those with an actual marker (disk, cross, PK nail, or other marker).

 

2. and those with no surveyors marker - just the top (finial, light, cross, etc.) of the structure.

 

Yours are the second type, as you describe them. The description of the PID always makes it clear which of the two types it is.

 

I don't count either of these. Type 1, I figure, is too much of a challenge to try to get permission to climb the structure, get to the roof of a building, etc. If I can't get to the top of a type 1, I never count it since I can't see the actual marker.

 

I feel type 2 is zero finding-challenge, so I just don't bother with them.

 

My opinion is that for type 2, you can report it as a find, not only here, but to the NGS as well. I see the Power Squadron does that, so I don't see why we can't also.

[survey tech]

While there are many cases where a benchmark disk may be set at or near the base of a building or other prominent structure, there would be no point in setting a disk on top of a dome, steeple, water tower, radio tower, smokestack, lighthouse or any other object of that shape. When a surveyor uses a horizontal control disk in his work, he must set up some kind of target directly above it, in order to be able to observe it from a distance. The idea in using these high points as stations, and the very reason they were chosen to serve as such, is because they are already good targets. When a surveyor observes one of these objects through the telescopic element of his instrument from a great distance, often of many miles, it looks like a needle, and therefore makes a perfect existing target, saving him the trouble of visiting the object to set up a target. So anyone attempting to climb one of these things in hopes of finding something on top will be disappointed.

[rusty0101]

quote:

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Originally posted by Black Dog Trackers:

There are two kinds of PIDs on high structures:

 

1. those with an actual marker (disk, cross, PK nail, or other marker).

 

2. and those with no surveyors marker - just the top (finial, light, cross, etc.) of the structure.

[clip]

I feel type 2 is zero finding-challenge, so I just don't bother with them.

 

My opinion is that for type 2, you can report it as a find, not only here, but to the NGS as well. I see the Power Squadron does that, so I don't see why we can't also.

---

 

I like to look for the type 2 markers as there are situations where serious updates need to be made.

 

For example, one of the church spires that I have reported was destroyed two years after it was last recovered in the NGS database. As there are two other church spires in the town that can be seen from outside of town, I felt it was important that the NGS Database needed to be updated. Part of my update on that mark was the reason for the destruction of that church spire. (No the church did not have a fire.)

 

Another point is that many of these markers are points of interest in their own right. They generally have a history that can be fun to learn about. The county courthouse of many counties is constructed of stone locally quaried. Church Spires may be undergoing renovation. etc.

 

I am in agreement however that searching for a benchmark marker affixed to the top of a building is generally more trouble than it is worth. For example the IDS building in Minneapolis has five benchmarks associated with it, one of them a physical disk. The other four are towers and corner beacons affixed to the building. With the high degree of security at tall building landmarks these days, I am hesitant to bother the people maintaining security here or at other buildings in the area equiped with disks.

 

I happen to think they are important enough to warrent someone periodically checking up on them. Those I am comfortable with checking up on, I will. Those I am not, I won't. From my perspective they should be handled the same way a benchmark on any private property is handled. If you don't feel comfortable approching the owner of the property to recover a benchmark, then don't try to recover that benchmark. If you are comfortable, let them know why you are doing this, both the personal (it's a fun activity) and the professional (these markers are important to surveyors in many tasks) as you feel comfortable talking with the property owner, then act upon his request. If you don't get approval to search for the mark, don't go looking for it.

 

-Rusty