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Muggled out Button - show support to get it added here


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A DNF is when you have looked and not found it. The catch is that a DNF may also mean unable to search due to muggles. I emailed about getting a muggled out choice for the logs to allow each person to select. The purpose is to say I was here but the area was too busy to search. The response was very positive and they asked me to add to the forum this topic to gauge the response from the geocaching community. So feel free to write your comments and if you agree just put a simple I agree as the numbers will get it in the next upgrade.

My reason is that I have seen the ump in our area ask questions when there is multiple DNF's. The DNF's nearly all indicate they were muggled out in one form or another and I thought if there was a muggled out selection then this would stop that from happening.

Looking forward to the communities opinion and support. It would be a great feature especially to help hiders as they would not have to check all the time. :)

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Psst...come closer..."Posting a DNF does not count against anything...nor does it make you less of a geocacher"

 

Either use a DNF...since, in reality, you really "Did Not Find" the cache...or, if you don't want that...the option is already there in the form of "Post Note"...

 

My vote would be no...

Edited by ArcherDragoon
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Can't that just be in the text of your DNF log?? :)

 

That's what I would do. There is no need for additional log types to describe the numerous situations that might prevent one from finding a cache.

 

Agreed. We don't need a "flooded out" "burned out" "beamed out" or "digested by local wildlife" log types either. They are all covered under "DNF" with explanatory text. I'd actually rather get some detail in the text other than somebody punching the generic "muggled out" button and then being less descriptive.

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For me, once I start actively seeking a cache container, it's either smiley or DNF. DNF can result from not finding the container that is there, not finding a container (that the owner later confirms is missing), cutting the search short due to weather, increased muggle activity, etc. I'll state why I'm logging the DNF to give the CO an update on their cache. I don't think we need another log type -- it will just get too confusing. Smiley, DNF, Note, NM, and NA/SBA are enough -- just my $0.02.

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I only log DNF if I actively look and didn't find. If I get there and can't look because of muggles or whiny children or bouncing coordinates etc. I log a note and mention the reason. If folks would do something like this it would help the both cache owner and future seekers of the cache. I don't think another button is necessary.

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I think it would be ok to have such a choice... or not. The same explanation for not searching/finding could be said in the log of a DNF.

 

My only concern would be abuse of the button. Does using the "muggled out" button refer to you being muggled out of your search (blocked), or does it mean the cache itself was "muggled out" i.e... missing?

 

Might lead to some confusion sending conflicting messages to the Owner and other cachers. :)

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Thread title:

Muggled out Button - show support to get it added here, Muggled out is not a DNF, But we need a selection for this.

 

(Highlighted portion) -- a DNF is a DNF is a DNF. Regardless of the reason.

 

As others have posted, simply state the reason for the DNF.

 

...or does logging a DNF somehow hurt your stats? :)

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I don't log DNF unless I gave the search a "good go", partly because I'm one of those people who, when I'm going to a new area, tend to use recent DNFs as a criterion for removing the cache from the search.

 

Also, when people log "Needs Archived", they sometimes say "I didn't find this, and I see the three previous logs are DNF too". Yet it could be that the three previous logs are all from people who hunted together on the same day, in a foreign language, saying "we couldn't get close to GZ because of the awesome beer festival being held at GZ, but hey, best DNF evah!".

 

So for me, DNF is "I did my best, I gave up", and everything else is a note.

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(Highlighted portion) -- a DNF is a DNF is a DNF. Regardless of the reason.

 

As others have posted, simply state the reason for the DNF.

 

...or does logging a DNF somehow hurt your stats? :)

Gotta disagree with that. If I'm walking towards a cache area, and it start raining cats and dogs, and I head back to the car, is that a DNF? Of course not. The FIND in Did Not Find implies that a SEARCH was made. To find, you have to search. Likewise, in order to NOT find, you also have had to search. If you never start the searching process, you should log a NOTE not a DNF.

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A DNF is when you have looked and not found it. The catch is that a DNF may also mean unable to search due to muggles. I emailed about getting a muggled out choice for the logs to allow each person to select. The purpose is to say I was here but the area was too busy to search. The response was very positive and they asked me to add to the forum this topic to gauge the response from the geocaching community. So feel free to write your comments and if you agree just put a simple I agree as the numbers will get it in the next upgrade.

My reason is that I have seen the ump in our area ask questions when there is multiple DNF's. The DNF's nearly all indicate they were muggled out in one form or another and I thought if there was a muggled out selection then this would stop that from happening.

Looking forward to the communities opinion and support. It would be a great feature especially to help hiders as they would not have to check all the time. :)

 

I think it's a great idea. Bring on the muggled out button!

 

(Didn't want all the responses to be negative) :huh:

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In response to several posts, I have to ask, if you drove over to the cache location, and didn't even get out of your car due to muggles, weather, got hungry and decided to eat first, had to pee, ect...why are you logging anything at all?? I don't understand "leaving a note" when all it says is " came by your cache but didn't hunt for it!"

 

I use the general personal rule that if I looked and didn't find, its a DNF. Other than that I don't log at all unless its a NM or a found it!

 

I support logging DNF's if you didn't find the cache, regardless of whether you spent 3 minutes looking or an hour. I think you should note it in your DNF that you didn't look very hard if this is the case.

 

There are those who recognize several DNF's in a row affect the cache. Whether in filtered searches, or Owner trips to check on it.

 

As far as the Owner checks, I would think he would read the logs and use common sense as to deciding it needs checked. 5 DNF's by cachers that are new, or caching in a group would not warrant a check, in my opinion.

 

Regarding the filtering part, I guess I am different than most, I don't just filter and go, I usually read the listing pages on the caches that I intend to hunt. Of course I am not a "numbers" hunter and am not trying to find a record number in one day. In fact, if I see a cache with several DNF's I am attracted to the "challenge" of maybe finding it when others couldn't!!

 

The "stigma" that seems to go hand in hand with a DNF is not clear to me. Of course I am still new...

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Gotta disagree with that. If I'm walking towards a cache area, and it start raining cats and dogs, and I head back to the car, is that a DNF? Of course not. The FIND in Did Not Find implies that a SEARCH was made. To find, you have to search. Likewise, in order to NOT find, you also have had to search. If you never start the searching process, you should log a NOTE not a DNF.

I agree with that. If I searched and did not find, DNF. If I did not search, I log a note if I log at all. If I searched, found and could not retrieve due to muggles or other circumstances, DNF if I'm not positive if it's the cache, note otherwise.

 

The only negative about a DNF is that some people use it as a criteria for filtering out caches, and that upsets a few cache owners. Personally I always read the text of the DNF, but I know some don't when there's too many geocaches.

 

Now, if Groundspeak would show a different icon for DNF on the map, I'll probably do it differently, so that I can have a visual indication of "visited but did not find".

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In response to several posts, I have to ask, if you drove over to the cache location, and didn't even get out of your car due to muggles, weather, got hungry and decided to eat first, had to pee, ect...why are you logging anything at all?? I don't understand "leaving a note" when all it says is " came by your cache but didn't hunt for it!"

 

Depends on the reason. If for instance I was unable to find a legal place to park I would probably log a DNF. That might be important information to future searchers.

 

I use the general personal rule that if I looked and didn't find, its a DNF. Other than that I don't log at all unless its a NM or a found it!

 

To me the cache hunt includes more than simply reaching ground zero and searching. The cache hunt includes the journey to the cache. I define the beginning of the hunt as when I bring up the coordinates and hit GO TO on the GPS. Once I've done that I've started the cache hunt. If I don't find it after the hunt has started, it's a DNF.

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Psst...come closer..."Posting a DNF does not count against anything...nor does it make you less of a geocacher"

 

Either use a DNF...since, in reality, you really "Did Not Find" the cache...or, if you don't want that...the option is already there in the form of "Post Note"...

 

My vote would be no...

 

I'm with the flying flamethrower.

We have all the logging options we need. What we do need is for more people to use them properly instead of merely typing initials and acronyms. But that discussion is scheduled for next Wednesday, not today.

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In response to several posts, I have to ask, if you drove over to the cache location, and didn't even get out of your car due to muggles, weather, got hungry and decided to eat first, had to pee, ect...why are you logging anything at all?? I don't understand "leaving a note" when all it says is " came by your cache but didn't hunt for it!"

 

I agree that a DNF or Note log without an explanation isn't very useful.

 

However, a DNF log accompanied with an explanation such as "I was there at lunchtime and there were too many muggles" or "the area was flooded" or "the snow was too deep" tells someone else that may be considering seeking the cache that there may be temporary conditions which may result in a failure to find the cache. In this case, a DNF log with an explanation is a courtesy to other geocachers.

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In response to several posts, I have to ask, if you drove over to the cache location, and didn't even get out of your car due to muggles, weather, got hungry and decided to eat first, had to pee, ect...why are you logging anything at all?? I don't understand "leaving a note" when all it says is " came by your cache but didn't hunt for it!"

 

I will log a note in the cases where either a) I think it will be useful to others, and/or b ) I want a record of it for some reason. In the muggles at GZ case: If I look for it anyway, but my hunt is hindered by muggles, I'll log a DNF. (I don't have any issues with logging DNFs; I've logged lots of them!). If I decide not to even try, I'll log it as a note - both as this could be useful information (especially if lots of people report similar), and as a record of my own attempt.

 

Last week I went to find a cache and found I could not get near GZ due to a road closure. I posted a note for that, it could be useful for others trying to find it (the road is closed for the next month). There are alternatives to access it of course, but it was worth noting that the suggested parking/route was blocked.

 

If I decide while I'm driving there I'd rather go eat lunch, I will not log a note.

 

Mark

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If I cannot search for a cache I won't log anything unless there is a specific circumstance that may affect the next cacher too. Pointless to say "Hey, I drove by the park today and didn't search for your cache".

 

As far as DNF due to muggles, I have logged a couple, and have stated in my log that I was muggled and will come back another time. It lets others know that they may need to be stealthy and it let's the CO know that there is muggle activity around the hide site. The DNF option is okay for this purpose.

 

But ... if there was another option for "muggled out" I suppose I would use it just as I would any other option that applied.

 

I see no harm in adding it as long as people understand the purpose and are not claiming the cache itself was muggled because they could not find it due to muggles.

 

People will need to be educated on the purpose of the new option and that may be easier said than done :)

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If I decide not to even try, I'll log it as a note - both as this could be useful information (especially if lots of people report similar), and as a record of my own attempt.

 

Guess that what I don't understand about it. :) That just doesn't make sense. How can you log an "attempt" if you "didn't try"? And how could your not trying be seen as valuable information to anyone but yourself? I don't agree with the use of someone elses online cache log as my personal notebook.

 

I can see logging a DNF or a note stating that "muggles abound" as useful information to other cachers, and of course the road closure incident is pertinent!

 

I think the "muggled out" button would be useful in warning other cachers of high traffic areas, but as stated earlier, adding that info to a DNF does the same thing. Difference being, I am assuming a "muggled out" would not cause a cache to be filtered in PQ's. If such were the case I could see the usefullness of it.

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If you don't want to log a DNF because you feel you didn't really give it a diligent search, then just log a note and mention the circumstances.

 

That´s exactly what I do, too.

I only log a DNF if I´m rather sure that the cache isn´t there any longer....

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If you don't want to log a DNF because you feel you didn't really give it a diligent search, then just log a note and mention the circumstances.

 

That´s exactly what I do, too.

I only log a DNF if I´m rather sure that the cache isn´t there any longer....

Hmmmmm...

 

You are sure the cache isn't there any longer, so you log a DNF?

 

Gee, I dunno. I must be missing something here.

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Gitchee I decided that about ten posts ago! :) I can't seem to take this thread seriously anymore. That last line in your signature seems fitting!! :lol:

 

 

I will vote for this idea!!! What the heck, change is good ... right??

 

edit- addressed the wrong person!! :huh:

Edited by NeecesandNephews
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So for me, DNF is "I did my best, I gave up", and everything else is a note.

 

 

Yes, that makes the most sense to me.

 

So if we have a "muggled out", what's next? A "snowed out", a "rained out", and "don't like the looks of the place so I didn't search" buttons?

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In response to several posts, I have to ask, if you drove over to the cache location, and didn't even get out of your car due to muggles, weather, got hungry and decided to eat first, had to pee, ect...why are you logging anything at all?? I don't understand "leaving a note" when all it says is " came by your cache but didn't hunt for it!"

 

If the reason I didn't search is due to my own circumstances, "too hungry", "my feet hurt and I don't want to walk that far" or whatever, no one else is going to care, so no note.

 

If it's because of something about the site, "flooded", "broken glass on the ground", "muggles coming and going constantly" I think it's worth a note.

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In response to several posts, I have to ask, if you drove over to the cache location, and didn't even get out of your car due to muggles, weather, got hungry and decided to eat first, had to pee, ect...why are you logging anything at all?? I don't understand "leaving a note" when all it says is " came by your cache but didn't hunt for it!"

 

If the reason I didn't search is due to my own circumstances, "too hungry", "my feet hurt and I don't want to walk that far" or whatever, no one else is going to care, so no note.

 

If it's because of something about the site, "flooded", "broken glass on the ground", "muggles coming and going constantly" I think it's worth a note.

 

 

 

I agree... again! :)

 

I can see logging a DNF or a note stating that "muggles abound" as useful information to other cachers, and of course the road closure incident is pertinent!

 

(bolding in my previous statement has been added in this post)

 

A DNF for "I didn't feel like it because of _____ ", is nonsense. I agree with legitimate reasons for a "Did Not Find Look" and explanation on the log ! Information left for the purpose of informing other cachers of unusual "circumstances" (of which many examples have been posted) are better left with a "Note" than a DNF due to the negative effect of DNF's on filtering.

 

I think the purpose of DNF's is because you didn't find it, not because you didn't look. (unless you are "rather sure" the cache is missing) ;)

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;) Having returned to giving this thread serious consideration I have concluded Groundspeak recognized the significance of this idea, and have already acted on it. They have included it on the logging page, retroactive for several prior years logs!!

 

I must therefore "alter" my stance on the matter to reflect the changes added as follows:

 

"Write note"

 

Thank you Groundspeak for your quick response on this matter!!!

Edited by NeecesandNephews
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