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Power Trail


AtwellFamily
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Ignore list? Look, this is the Mojave Desert, outside of these caches there really aren't that many others out there. A couple judicious centered PQ's with the proper radius and perhaps a correctly parametered CAR and you miss just about everyone. We are not talking cache dense urban areas here.

Yep, you could even do a PQ based on Primm, or Baker and still get all the old Caches that were there, if you filter out Micros.

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Power Trail

 

From the guildlines "Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can."

 

Why would something like this be approved...607 caches in a straight line?

I would assume they recieved special permission for publishing...considering it seems to be the local geocaching association account...

Edited by ArcherDragoon
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Power Trail

 

From the guildlines "Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can."

 

Why would something like this be approved...607 caches in a straight line?

I would assume they recieved special permission...considering it is one of the local geocaching association "accounts"...

and...that account has also been the co-host of an event with Signal. I'm guessing this officially sanctioned. It's no fair that all those people overseas get to have the world record. Maybe there's a media stunt in the works with Guinesses, to make the world record official.

 

Now we will have to set a new kind or record. Rather than "how many in 24 hours", the measurement could be "How long to find 500" They can set rules on team size, equiptment, proximity of all team members etc.

 

Like all 4 members must physically touch the Cache.

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The easiest solution has already been mentioned but not fully explained:

 

Groundspeak creates a new Attribute - Power Trail

 

All Power Trail caches are required to have this attribute or they won't get approved - those already in existence that don't update get disabled until they do.

 

Now the new attribute can be either included or excluded when creating pocket queries - everybody's happy.

 

Personally, I seriously doubt I would ever do a Power Trail as I am more of a quality over quantity type of cacher (as is evident from my less than 500 finds in nearly 9 years of Geocaching), but I completely respect the wishes of those who do.

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The easiest solution has already been mentioned but not fully explained:

 

Groundspeak creates a new Attribute - Power Trail

 

All Power Trail caches are required to have this attribute or they won't get approved - those already in existence that don't update get disabled until they do.

 

Now the new attribute can be either included or excluded when creating pocket queries - everybody's happy.

 

Personally, I seriously doubt I would ever do a Power Trail as I am more of a quality over quantity type of cacher (as is evident from my less than 500 finds in nearly 9 years of Geocaching), but I completely respect the wishes of those who do.

 

Not a bad idea. Then you could ignore any cche with the "PT" attribute.

As long as we are talking about "don't hide (insert type) just because you can. Wouldn't it be nice if we had a "Don't hide a lame micro, just because you can" for those who, instead of committing to a power trail, pepper an area with 150+ identical lame micro hides. For me, those are more annoying than a power trail.

 

Or is that a completely new can of worms?

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Groundspeak creates a new Attribute - Power Trail

 

The argument of what is or is not a power trail will be entertaining. I sure would not like to be a reviewer that has to apply that standard.

 

So what do you do about a rails to trails that has caches every 600-900 feet for several miles, caches of different sizes and caches hidden by many different people over a period of a couple years? Do you suddenly one day label it a power trail, send emails to a dozen or more owners and say if they don't apply the attribute their cache is going to be shut down? That should keep contact@geocaching.com full for a week or two!

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Everyone has a preferance on how to play their own game and their is no right or wrong.

 

We enjoy power trails it gives us a chance to go out with other cachers and have a great time.

 

We also enjoy very challenging caches such as climbing tree's, rock walls. in caves and diving under water. Thats just how we play the game

 

In January I went with 5 other cachers on a 2000 mile journey for a power trail in Lousiana and we all had the time of our lives on the trip.

 

No one says you have to do any or every cache out their so just do what you want and have fun doing it. When you spend more time complaining about Geocaching perhaps it is time for a new hobby.

 

Should their be a ban on power trails I say no it is only suggested not to place them so close.

 

We all must remember it is just a game and it is a great game where we all can meet very cool people and see very exciting places that we may have just went on by before.

 

Cache on ;)

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Everyone has a preferance on how to play their own game and their is no right or wrong.

I think you may be missing the point (or, at least one of the points). So-called "Power Trails" were not allowed all that long ago. Then, suddenly, they not only seem to be allowed, but almost sanctioned, again without a clear explaination.
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Power Trail

 

From the guildlines "Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can."

 

Why would something like this be approved...607 caches in a straight line?

 

To each his own, why criticize just don't do the Power Trail if you don't want to....many won't and many will I for 1 will be one of the ones that will.

 

Scubasonic

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Groundspeak creates a new Attribute - Power Trail

 

The argument of what is or is not a power trail will be entertaining. I sure would not like to be a reviewer that has to apply that standard.

 

So what do you do about a rails to trails that has caches every 600-900 feet for several miles, caches of different sizes and caches hidden by many different people over a period of a couple years? Do you suddenly one day label it a power trail, send emails to a dozen or more owners and say if they don't apply the attribute their cache is going to be shut down? That should keep contact@geocaching.com full for a week or two!

As with other attributes, I would assume it would be up to the cache owner to use it. My guess is that the hiders of this trail would be willing to put it on their caches. In the case of something not as obvious you might see some caches on the trail have it and others not. It would provide a first pass at filtering either for those looking for power trails or looking to avoid them.

 

Everyone has a preferance on how to play their own game and their is no right or wrong.

I think you may be missing the point (or, at least one of the points). So-called "Power Trails" were not allowed all that long ago. Then, suddenly, they not only seem to be allowed, but almost sanctioned, again without a clear explaination.

I don't think it was so simple as TPTB deciding one day to overturn a guideline. My understanding was that power trails were always allowed but that reviewers could use their discretion in limiting the number of caches in an area. They could ask for some caches to be combined into a multi-cache or ask for more separation between the caches to leave room for others to place caches. The enforcement was very uneven and arbitrary. Pehaps even some of the reviewers who had a personal preference against power trails may have be used the wording of the old guidelines to deny caches they should've listed. Many made the point that a 600 stage multi would be the same density of containers as 600 traditional caches, except that no one would bother doing a 600 stage multi. If the goal was to limit the number of caches and leave room for others, the old workaround of making the caches into a single multicaches didn't make much sense. I think TPTB gave direction to the reviewers to not turn down caches just because it was a power trail. Instead the reviewers are being asked to look on a case by case basis as to whether there is a need to limit caches in an area. The result is more power trails and perhaps more mega-power trails like this one. I don't forsee these taking over the smaller series and single caches that most cachers will hide.

 

I see alot of the people who are still anti-power trail bring up the numbers issue. They seem upset that people who are "into numbers" are driving cachers to hide these trails. Yes, it sometimes seems that if you want people to do a hike or drive out to the desert you need to hide at least 50 caches so they can find that many in a day. If you hide a single cache or even a series of just a few caches and put them in a remote spot, they will get few finds. Interestingly, there are still plenty of these solitary caches to find if that is what you like. I wonder why those who say they aren't into the numbers get so upset that the people who are motivated by numbers will do this power run. Does it bother you that Ventura_Kids are going to try for 600 caches in a day. Hey, here's an idea. On they day they do this, go get a boat and go out the to cache in this thread. If you find it, maybe you can keep it from being archived. I do expect that when you post about it in the forum here it won't get as many replies as the VKs telling us about setting a new record. Someone will find the need to criticize the numbers run. ;)

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Groundspeak creates a new Attribute - Power Trail

 

The argument of what is or is not a power trail will be entertaining. I sure would not like to be a reviewer that has to apply that standard.

 

So what do you do about a rails to trails that has caches every 600-900 feet for several miles, caches of different sizes and caches hidden by many different people over a period of a couple years? Do you suddenly one day label it a power trail, send emails to a dozen or more owners and say if they don't apply the attribute their cache is going to be shut down? That should keep contact@geocaching.com full for a week or two!

As with other attributes, I would assume it would be up to the cache owner to use it. My guess is that the hiders of this trail would be willing to put it on their caches. In the case of something not as obvious you might see some caches on the trail have it and others not. It would provide a first pass at filtering either for those looking for power trails or looking to avoid them.

 

The point is that at the beginning it was not a power trail, just a few caches. I would not expect the first owners to use the attribute. Some where between 50% to 75% it is starting to look like a power trail. Now do you insist the new hiders use the attributes? What about the original hiders? Do you now go back and tell them they now have to use the attribute? How do you enforce the use of the attribute in this case? Did the Waltons take to long to say goodnight?

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I don't think it was so simple as TPTB deciding one day to overturn a guideline.
That is a fair guess as to what probably transpired behind the scenes, but the bottom line is that there is confusion in the ranks due to inadequate communication of power trail policies or lack thereof.
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Everyone has a preferance on how to play their own game and their is no right or wrong.

I think you may be missing the point (or, at least one of the points). So-called "Power Trails" were not allowed all that long ago. Then, suddenly, they not only seem to be allowed, but almost sanctioned, again without a clear explaination.

This is kind of my point. Groundspeak seems to do these kinds of things all the time. If I asked a few months ago to place this I woudl have gotten the answer of no and then I see this all the sudden with no publized change letting me know this could be done. I have seen this in other ares of the business. The policy changes and they slowly let it happend and that is how you hear about it.

 

I would think changes like this should somehow be communicated. Not just found out by accident.

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One good thing about this new series the Mad Greek in Baker, great shakes and food.. Catch it on the way by.

 

Has anyone even thought about the amount of stopping and starting let alone getting in and out of the vehicle after a run like that.

They are supposed to open a new location in Primm too. That's why the Welcome center closed, they planned to open a Mad Greek in that building.

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One good thing about this new series the Mad Greek in Baker, great shakes and food.. Catch it on the way by.

 

Has anyone even thought about the amount of stopping and starting let alone getting in and out of the vehicle after a run like that.

They are supposed to open a new location in Primm too. That's why the Welcome center closed, they planned to open a Mad Greek in that building.

I believe they already did.

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I think a big ol' PowerTrail might be fun to put on a trail going up the side of a mountain. Get a nice elevation change of 5,000 feet or more from farthest cache to closest cache on a looping trail.

 

Check out the elevation change between Baker Ca and the Nv border not much, just a little over a 4000 foot

elevation change thats following the trail and remember it's not a paved road

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Does it bother you that Ventura_Kids are going to try for 600 caches in a day. Hey, here's an idea. On they day they do this, go get a boat and go out the to cache in this thread. If you find it, maybe you can keep it from being archived. I do expect that when you post about it in the forum here it won't get as many replies as the VKs telling us about setting a new record. Someone will find the need to criticize the numbers run. ;)

 

I don't think VK can do it in 24 hours, man. It's dirt roads with a high clearance 4x4 recommended. It's not like they're going to be cruising at 65 MPH in between them.

 

But if they do, I suppose it will be just like the thread for their old record, where people who didn't read the whole thread come along about once a week and say that it works out to a cache every 4 minutes, and it can't be done. :)

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I'm in the early planning stages of a power trail that will range from Houlton, Maine, to El Cajon, California. Be patient... this is going to take some time, but trust me... it will be worth it!

 

Let it be known San Diego county cachers don't like micros, at least the vocal ones ;):)

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I'm in the early planning stages of a power trail that will range from Houlton, Maine, to El Cajon, California. Be patient... this is going to take some time, but trust me... it will be worth it!

 

 

Should you decide to make a little "segway" in your trail and come through Oklahoma I have a 30 gallon trash can full of film cans from the local Walgreens you could have!!! ;)

 

 

(I had illusions of a micro-haters neo-satanic orgy where we could burn them while dancing around the fire naked and humming, but the wife noticed my med prescription had run out and spoiled it all)

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I'm in the early planning stages of a power trail that will range from Houlton, Maine, to El Cajon, California. Be patient... this is going to take some time, but trust me... it will be worth it!

 

 

Should you decide to make a little "segway" in your trail and come through Oklahoma I have a 30 gallon trash can full of film cans from the local Walgreens you could have!!! ;)

 

 

(I had illusions of a micro-haters neo-satanic orgy where we could burn them while dancing around the fire naked and humming, but the wife noticed my med prescription had run out and spoiled it all)

Send me a boxful? They're good for Cito Kits that my brother makes. They also are great for gathering up all the tiny things on the bottom of a Cache, and turning them all into one trade item. Put the loose beads, the loose coins, and that odd marble and the tiny polished stone into a film can, and now it's not such a bad piece of swag.

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I had actually thought of placing a cache with a mixture of a somewhat overdone theme of the five gallon bucket full of film cans only one of which contains the log and a "just for kids" cache where each can had a little trinket or toy and the kids got to choose one without looking. Kinda like the bubble gum machine, you never know what you're gonna get. Parents get to go barzak trying to find the log.

 

There seems to be a lot of parent caching with their kids, and I was thinking I might contrubute to the fun for families!!

 

Just an idea. Making it muggle proof while still allowing easy access (terrain) for kids is the part I can't seem to put together yet.

 

I found a whole display at the local dollar store, of little "hot wheels" type cars (cheaper than hot wheels but not the hollow tin ones) that will fit perfectly inside.

 

edit to add- Sorry ;) Didn't mean to hijack the thread!

Edited by NeecesandNephews
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I had actually thought of placing a cache with a mixture of a somewhat overdone theme of the five gallon bucket full of film cans only one of which contains the log ........

 

....or make it a two stage multi where one canister has the coordinates and all the rest have a "try again" note. There was an ammo can full placed around here like that and I managed to pick the wrong one right up until there was only one selection left.

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I'm in the early planning stages of a power trail that will range from Houlton, Maine, to El Cajon, California. Be patient... this is going to take some time, but trust me... it will be worth it!

 

It's a shame virts aren't around anymore, as it could have been a powertrail of them.. Make them all easy, with the answers available online, and a translation on the page in German..

You wouldn't have to hide a thing! ;)

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I'm the bad man in Maine that started this whole power trail dilemma. I had no idea that power trails were not allowed. I placed 125 caches in one day along a logging road out in the middle of the woods deep in Maine the day after the guidelines had changed. I didn't know there was ever a guideline that existed at that time. Each cache is placed for one reason or more and are placed plenty far enough apart to not infringe in any way on the guidelines.

 

What I did know is that there were a lot of local cachers that I wanted to pay tribute to for making this adventure called Geocaching such fun.

 

Most of the Stud Mill Road caches are named after local cachers. There are 165 caches in that series now and they are placed averaging 3/4 mile apart. That meets all the guidelines of geocaching both then and now. I also have permission for them.

 

Also try to remember these are guidelines, not rules. suggestions for a reviewer and hider to discuss.

 

Believe it or not, I'm not a numbers guy. I don't think I could ever do more than 20 in a day and be able to enjoy it.

 

I was more than surprised to see the overwhelming response to the Stud Mill Road series and the idea of naming them as tributes. I just had no idea this would all become such a big deal.

 

To those that are offended by this power trail propagation, I'm sorry.

 

To those that have had the time of their lives and made memories to last a lifetime, Your welcome.

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I'm the bad man in Maine that started this whole power trail dilemma. I had no idea that power trails were not allowed. I placed 125 caches in one day along a logging road out in the middle of the woods deep in Maine the day after the guidelines had changed. I didn't know there was ever a guideline that existed at that time. Each cache is placed for one reason or more and are placed plenty far enough apart to not infringe in any way on the guidelines.

 

What I did know is that there were a lot of local cachers that I wanted to pay tribute to for making this adventure called Geocaching such fun.

 

Most of the Stud Mill Road caches are named after local cachers. There are 165 caches in that series now and they are placed averaging 3/4 mile apart. That meets all the guidelines of geocaching both then and now. I also have permission for them.

 

Also try to remember these are guidelines, not rules. suggestions for a reviewer and hider to discuss.

 

Believe it or not, I'm not a numbers guy. I don't think I could ever do more than 20 in a day and be able to enjoy it.

 

I was more than surprised to see the overwhelming response to the Stud Mill Road series and the idea of naming them as tributes. I just had no idea this would all become such a big deal.

 

To those that are offended by this power trail propagation, I'm sorry.

 

To those that have had the time of their lives and made memories to last a lifetime, Your welcome.

 

I'm trying to figure out how to get out there. I really would like to do those they seem like a nice experience. Much nicer than bouncing along in the desert.

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Power Trail

 

From the guildlines "Please don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can."

 

Why would something like this be approved...607 caches in a straight line?

 

Because geocaching today is all about the numbers to quite a few geocachers. Sadly some nerds with computers have created stats from the beginning of geocaching and they are to blame as well as Geocaching.com letting them get the numbers out of Geocaching.com easily.

 

The example you have created a lnk to... YAK :-(((

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It has begun:

 

AlanRRT found Dagda (Traditional Cache)

Woo hoo! Co-FTF with AWEMM! 154 caches, 154 FTFs in one day! Thanks for the series.

 

 

Oh-oh. I think that's a record. We have a new world record holder; 154 FTF's in one day. ;)

 

I noticed that one of the caches owners also logged all of the caches on the trail as a find. Logging finds your own hides is generally frowned upon but now that user has 600 or so "finds" in a day.

 

I got 3 FTFs in a day once on a day where 9 new caches were placed in the area (by 9 different COs) for teh 090909 event. After the third one I felt like I was "hogging" all the new FTF opportunities and took a break from caching to have breakfast. Ironically, there has been one 2 other FTF opportunities within 20 miles of home since.

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I'm in the early planning stages of a power trail that will range from Houlton, Maine, to El Cajon, California. Be patient... this is going to take some time, but trust me... it will be worth it!

 

 

Should you decide to make a little "segway" in your trail and come through Oklahoma I have a 30 gallon trash can full of film cans from the local Walgreens you could have!!! ;)

 

 

(I had illusions of a micro-haters neo-satanic orgy where we could burn them while dancing around the fire naked and humming, but the wife noticed my med prescription had run out and spoiled it all)

 

It's

complete with burning guardrail

 

Also an event

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i stumbled across this on the map by accident 3 days ago and my first instinct was, where do i get a 4x4. i put out the word to friends in the community and people who had access to vehicles. to find out that the local FTF freak was on the hunt 3 hours ahead. the game is what you make of it. obviously no one was gonna get FTF on all 500 hides but it will be a challenge to get the new record in 24 hours. ( just noticed theres already been one disabled) of course GC has its problem of the more people brought to an area the more attention it gathers from people outside the game. this is just another nevada tourist thing. think about it, when you think of neveda what pops in your mind, Vegas, reno, tahoe, and maybe a million nuclear holes in the desert. GAME ON!

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Does anyone care to define 'power trail'?

 

A series of caches

How many is a series? 5? 10? 100?

 

placed in close proximity to each other

How close is "close proximity? .1? .3?

 

What if the distance varies, is it the average distance that defines it?

 

with the intent of allowing searchers to accumulate a high number of finds in a short amount of time.

So if the caches are placed with any other intent then this doesn't apply.

 

What if they are not placed "just because you can" or "with the intent of allowing searchers to accumulate a high number of finds in a short amount of time" but instead to provide cachers a fun and memorable geocaching experience?

 

What if they are placed to highlight scenic views and interesting places? Probably not the case for all of these, but it could be on others... would 50 caches spaced .1 apart each with nice views along a scenic ridge line road be a power trail? It wouldn't have been placed with either of the stated intents.

 

And, there is nothing to indicate that even with a 4wd vehicle the power line trail these are placed along would allow for "a high number of finds in a short amount of time"... in fact I doubt that you could make very good time along this trail at all. I used to race desert bikes in this area, Lake Elsinore to Vegas, and can tell you without seeing this particular trail that getting in too much of a hurry will just tear up your vehicle.

 

I know those questions sound argumentative and silly at first blush, but they're not.

 

To define a power trail they must be answered.

 

I think this is one of the reasons that the prohibition against power trails is being lightened if not lifted... like the WOW factor the definition of "power trail" was left to each Reviewer's interpretation and each area under consideration was different.

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I'm in the early planning stages of a power trail that will range from Houlton, Maine, to El Cajon, California. Be patient... this is going to take some time, but trust me... it will be worth it!

 

 

Should you decide to make a little "segway" in your trail and come through Oklahoma I have a 30 gallon trash can full of film cans from the local Walgreens you could have!!! ;)

 

 

(I had illusions of a micro-haters neo-satanic orgy where we could burn them while dancing around the fire naked and humming, but the wife noticed my med prescription had run out and spoiled it all)

 

It's

complete with burning guardrail

 

Also an event

 

That was actually Burning Micro I in 2005. The host of Burning Micro is banned from Geocaching.com, but the micros still burn every September in SW Pa. I attended BM IV in 2008, which was briefly listed on Geocaching.com, but was archived and locked in a dramatic fashion before the event. BM V took place in 2009 listed only on Navicache, GPSGames.org, and Terracaching.com. I can assure you, nothing neo-satanic, or orgy-like happens.

 

There are currently no roadside power trails in Greensburg, Pa. (Hey, I had to stay on topic).

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