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Jeremy

Apology: Weekend Pocket Query Issues

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I hear they are up to 675 now. :rolleyes:

 

But maybe I hit it at the right times, but this weekend it seemed as if the generator was pumping out the PQ's in seconds.

Platinum members get a floating maximum depending on server load. I've seen it go as high as 817. Edited by beejay&esskay

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We're on target to increase PQ limits to 1000 by this weekend. The increase is attended by the ability to download PQs directly from the site.

 

To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready. My Finds PQs will also be available as a download only. I'll have more information for you when we release new code later this week.

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We're on target to increase PQ limits to 1000 by this weekend. The increase is attended by the ability to download PQs directly from the site.

 

To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready. My Finds PQs will also be available as a download only. I'll have more information for you when we release new code later this week.

 

Oh. My. Goodness. This, exactly this - I may have to become a PM now...

 

EDIT: Hmm, mis-read it. Almost there with the PQ on demand - one day the email will be history!!

Edited by tiiiim

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All I can say is WOW! Did you guys keep Drew chained to his desk? Hope you kept him well supplied with Mountain Dew and Snickers. Looking forward to this next code drop!

 

By the way did you guys see the suggestion for the last four log icons and a maintenance icon on the your caches listing. That would be a really neat feature.

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To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready.

So if I want my standard PQs to have more caches I need to increase the manual effort to get them. :rolleyes: I'll need to think about that.

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To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready.

So if I want my standard PQs to have more caches I need to increase the manual effort to get them. :rolleyes: I'll need to think about that.

 

Naw, it just means more work for Clyde :ph34r:

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So if I want my standard PQs to have more caches I need to increase the manual effort to get them. :rolleyes: I'll need to think about that.

I assume that GSAK will be updated quickly to download the cache from the link, so it will all be transparent to you. If you're picking it up manually, the difference is between clicking on an attachment to open it, or clicking on a link to download the file. If you're using webmail, the attachment is a link anyway, the only difference now is whether it is stored on your email provider's server or Groundspeak. I don't see this as any extra effort. Did I miss something?

 

Edit : jholly beat me to it - the perils of typing a longer response :ph34r:

Edited by Chrysalides

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So if I want my standard PQs to have more caches I need to increase the manual effort to get them. :rolleyes: I'll need to think about that.

I assume that GSAK will be updated quickly to download the cache from the link, so it will all be transparent to you.

Do we know that this isn't an "automated access" violation?

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All I can say is WOW! Did you guys keep Drew chained to his desk?

 

No, this was very much a team effort. We considered it but thought he might chew off a limb and escape. You don't make that mistake twice! :rolleyes:

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I assume that GSAK will be updated quickly to download the cache from the link, so it will all be transparent to you.
Do we know that this isn't an "automated access" violation?

That's something for Clyde and Groundspeak to work out. Being one of the most popular geocaching specific applications around I would imagine he would receive favorable consideration, especially since it does not violate the spirit of the rule. I'm not even sure if this violates the letter of the rule.

Edited by Chrysalides

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No, this was very much a team effort. We considered it but thought he might chew off a limb and escape. You don't make that mistake twice! :rolleyes:

Especially when you don't know whose limb will get chewed off...

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So if I want my standard PQs to have more caches I need to increase the manual effort to get them. :rolleyes: I'll need to think about that.

I assume that GSAK will be updated quickly to download the cache from the link, so it will all be transparent to you.

Do we know that this isn't an "automated access" violation?

 

I seriously doubt it. The email with the link can be read and the URL extracted and then using the web URL facility of GSAK the page could be accessed. I'll almost bet there is a button that needs to be clicked to do the downloading. My cachematelogging macro accesses the site via the GSAK URL facility and I did specifically ask if this was a violation and was told no. My take is if you access the site via a URL and then manually interact with the page your not accessing the site automatically.

 

Edit: Perhaps Nate or someone else would care to comment.

Edited by jholly

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We're on target to increase PQ limits to 1000 by this weekend. The increase is attended by the ability to download PQs directly from the site.

 

To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready. My Finds PQs will also be available as a download only. I'll have more information for you when we release new code later this week.

 

Awesome Nate - that sounds great. Thank you for the update!

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To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready. My Finds PQs will also be available as a download only. I'll have more information for you when we release new code later this week.

This upgrade to 1K PQ's is really great.

 

I guess my one question is, how long will the page be available for downloading? With the emails, we had the information for as long as we needed it.

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The download links to PQ's are valid for 7 days after generation. After that we sweep away the saved file to make room for the next time.

 

You can always save the zip file locally.

 

-Raine

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PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only

That's a shame. I knew there'd be a catch...

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We're on target to increase PQ limits to 1000 by this weekend. The increase is attended by the ability to download PQs directly from the site.

 

To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready. My Finds PQs will also be available as a download only. I'll have more information for you when we release new code later this week.

 

Will we still have the option to have the PQ notification email sent to another email address as we do with the current PQ system?

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The download links to PQ's are valid for 7 days after generation. After that we sweep away the saved file to make room for the next time.

 

You can always save the zip file locally.

 

-Raine

 

I guess the next question on that thread is when we download the PQ will the information be current as of the download time, or will it be current as of the time the email was sent? I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just curious. If the info will be current as of the time I download it, and a couple new caches were published that day between the time the email was sent and the download time, that would mean I wouldn't have to download the individual GPX files for the new caches.

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Now that I've slept on this. I do have another question.

 

First, I don't like the possibility of receiving PQ's in two different ways. It will complicate thing, and I know of some people that it'll confuse. :blink: So, I'm hoping that we will have the option of saying, "I want all my PQ's, no matter the number of waypoints in it, to be send via the download method." Will we?

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I guess the next question on that thread is when we download the PQ will the information be current as of the download time, or will it be current as of the time the email was sent? I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just curious. If the info will be current as of the time I download it, and a couple new caches were published that day between the time the email was sent and the download time, that would mean I wouldn't have to download the individual GPX files for the new caches.

You submit PQ. The hamsters crank out your PQ. When it is done, an email is sent to you with the link. At that point, the data is static.

 

If you treat the link in the email as an email attachment, then there is no difference between existing delivery and new delivery.

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To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only

That's a rather important detail to reveal at the eleventh hour. Pretty much makes it useless for my current workflow. :blink:

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To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only

That's a rather important detail to reveal at the eleventh hour. Pretty much makes it useless for my current workflow. :blink:

 

Just wait until they add the CAPTCHA code with the download button.

Parsing a URL out of an email is easy enough to script.

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Parsing a URL out of an email is easy enough to script.

As long as the site doesn't lock us out for non human access speed. If I press my download button and the script (or GSAK itself if it gets modified) downloads the last few days of pocket queries that could be 10-15 downloads all in a row. Right now I can download my backlog of PQs from GMail using POP3 with one button click and no lock outs.

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Parsing a URL out of an email is easy enough to script.

Almost forgot. The script would also have to be smart enough to log you back in if you ever got auto logged out.

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We're on target to increase PQ limits to 1000 by this weekend. The increase is attended by the ability to download PQs directly from the site.

 

To avoid issues with emailing large attachments, PQs from 501-1000 caches will be available for download only, although we will still send you an email notification with a link to the page to download it when it is ready. My Finds PQs will also be available as a download only. I'll have more information for you when we release new code later this week.

 

Great, thanks!

 

For all you people already complaining about having to DL, boohoo. Get a life :blink:

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For all you people already complaining about having to DL, boohoo. Get a life :blink:

Laughing frog notwithstanding, just because this restriction doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Not everyone uses the site the same way.

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Will we still have the option to have the PQ notification email sent to another email address as we do with the current PQ system?

 

Yes.

 

For all you people already complaining about having to DL, boohoo. Get a life :blink:

Laughing frog notwithstanding, just because this restriction doesn't affect you doesn't mean it doesn't affect others. Not everyone uses the site the same way.

 

Actually, if you change nothing about the way you consume PQs you will not be affected either. It is only if you opt for the larger 501-1000 cache PQs.

 

I guess the next question on that thread is when we download the PQ will the information be current as of the download time, or will it be current as of the time the email was sent? I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just curious. If the info will be current as of the time I download it, and a couple new caches were published that day between the time the email was sent and the download time, that would mean I wouldn't have to download the individual GPX files for the new caches.

You submit PQ. The hamsters crank out your PQ. When it is done, an email is sent to you with the link. At that point, the data is static.

 

This is accurate.

 

Now that I've slept on this. I do have another question.

 

First, I don't like the possibility of receiving PQ's in two different ways. It will complicate thing, and I know of some people that it'll confuse. :) So, I'm hoping that we will have the option of saying, "I want all my PQ's, no matter the number of waypoints in it, to be send via the download method." Will we?

 

PQs with < 501 caches will be emailed as an attachment *and* be available as a download for 7 days.

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I guess the next question on that thread is when we download the PQ will the information be current as of the download time, or will it be current as of the time the email was sent? I'm not trying to stir up trouble, just curious. If the info will be current as of the time I download it, and a couple new caches were published that day between the time the email was sent and the download time, that would mean I wouldn't have to download the individual GPX files for the new caches.

You submit PQ. The hamsters crank out your PQ. When it is done, an email is sent to you with the link. At that point, the data is static.

 

If you treat the link in the email as an email attachment, then there is no difference between existing delivery and new delivery.

Yea. I know how PQ's are created.

 

But, from what I've read the way the new ones will come is if the contain from 1-500 they will come as an attachment, and the ones from 501-1000 will come with a link. For the 501-1000, after you get the email you have to go to the link and download the zip file. So, it looks like there is a difference. It would just be better if you could say send them all to me as a link no matter their size.

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Actually, if you change nothing about the way you consume PQs you will not be affected either. It is only if you opt for the larger 501-1000 cache PQs.

If I change nothing about the way I consume PQs I'm back to the old problem of increasing cache density making the PQ system less and less useful. There was a whole thread on that but it died out when the 1000 cache limit was announced.

 

While this may be great news for those who run one or two queries, those who max out their allotment at 35 a week it's very inconvenient. Those who have more than one account just for PQs will find it a royal pain as you'd have to make sure you're logged in with the right account first and would have to switch twice a day each day.

 

So the only way for me to double my cache limit is to pay an extra $35 a year and eventually $70 and $105 as the cache density around here grows exponentially.

 

Now if Groundspeak would allow us to auto download the PQ automatically upon receiving the notify then I'll stop complaining.

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PQs with < 501 caches will be emailed as an attachment *and* be available as a download for 7 days.

 

Is the delivery mechanism based on the number of actual caches in the PQ or the maximum specified on the PQ request? (I ask for up to 1000 caches within 1 mile. I get 7. How does the PQ get delivered?)

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Almost forgot. The script would also have to be smart enough to log you back in if you ever got auto logged out.
I'd asume that you don't need to log into the site to be able to download a binary file? Just like your stats banner for example. I could be wrong, but I hope not.

 

Once generated downloading the PQ's only uses bandwith and almost no server resources, so hamering the site is also less of an issue.

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If you need to be logged in and download manually then this is gonna be a pain.

 

If it's just a link you can automate, and Groundspeak is fine with it being automated then it's just a little bit more trickey than it was, but still an improvement over 500 cache PQ's for me.

 

We definitely needed an increase in PQ size, as the 150 odd caches that were placed recently by just one cacher in my nearest 500 from my home co-ords shows!

 

Philip

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Is the delivery mechanism based on the number of actual caches in the PQ

 

Yes

 

-Raine

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Wow, has Chicken Little taken over this thread or what? :blink:

"There ain't nobody here but us chickens" :)

 

I'm just miffed that the restriction wasn't mentioned when the increase was first announced. It's like being promised a dirt bike a month before Christmas but but then being told it's really going to be a bicycle on Christmas eve.

 

If it's really to "avoid issues with emailing large attachments" then there shouldn't be an problem with us auto downloading the PQ upon notify.

 

Right now my system auto downloads the PQs from GMail and loads the GPS when I wake up so I just grab it on my way out to work in the morning.

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What would be real handy is if the downloads are a static URL. As in the url is the same every time the PQ is generated. If that's the case then it's a simple cron job once a week to go grab my 'weekly PQs' and on with life I go.

 

Kinda like how the "My Finds" PQ always spits out the exact same file name each week - would be kinda cool to be able to go fetch something like http://pqs.geocaching.com/2533423/319332.gpx

 

If the URL is unique each run, is problematic.

Where it also gets tricky is if I gotta have a login cookie or session set before the site gives me my file.

 

More a curiousity than anything else. I'll prolly leave my PQs to run exactly as they do, but leave a spot open each day so I can run a last minute "1000 caches PQ" for a spot I'm planning to head out to. Does disrupt the start GSAK, get coffee, fire ColoradoExport, leave process for loading up.

 

I suspect one goal of the download vs email thing is to drive traffic back to GC.com every time you wanna head out caching - and if you want to cover an area you "happen to be in" TPTB would prefer you buy an iPhone and use the app. Not an issue to me, as long as the site stays up on Friday afternoons.

 

If large email attachments is a concern, and the only concern, then there should be a button in my account settings to enable large email attachments - as some of us can easily accomodate large attachments. Just like that GPX 1.0 vs GPX 1.0.1 button. Let me opt in if you're concerned my email provider will reject the large email.

Edited by northernpenguin

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sheeez. First they complain that 500 is too small. Then they complain that getting a 1000 will be a pain. I for one would like to thank the developers and I'm sure that over time things will be tweaked and improved. That seems to be the way the site works. This last weekend the PQ generator performance was super.

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sheeez. First they complain that 500 is too small. Then they complain that getting a 1000 will be a pain. I for one would like to thank the developers and I'm sure that over time things will be tweaked and improved. That seems to be the way the site works. This last weekend the PQ generator performance was super.

We're having a discussion. That's how improvements happen.

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If you need to be logged in and download manually then this is gonna be a pain.

I'm waiting to see how this would actually be implemented. Without needing to login, this could be vulnerable to abuse (and a serious TOU violation). If there is a need to login, it makes automatic retrieval problematic.

 

You can't do a Mission Impossible "This URL will self destruct in 5 seconds" after download either, since downloads could fail.

 

Now that I've thought it through (was suffering from serious sleep deprivation yesterday) I agree with BJ&SK in say that this could increase manual effort, mainly from the point above. Will wait and see before I comment further.

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I suspect one goal of the download vs email thing is to drive traffic back to GC.com every time you wanna head out caching - and if you want to cover an area you "happen to be in" TPTB would prefer you buy an iPhone and use the app. Not an issue to me, as long as the site stays up on Friday afternoons.

I thought it is more to relieve load on their email server. As for iPhone being the device of choice for Groundspeak, all I can say is : "God forbid!"

Edited by Chrysalides

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We're having a discussion. That's how improvements happen.

Maybe you could wait until the national anthem is done playing before you start working the refs.

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sheeez. First they complain that 500 is too small. Then they complain that getting a 1000 will be a pain. I for one would like to thank the developers and I'm sure that over time things will be tweaked and improved. That seems to be the way the site works. This last weekend the PQ generator performance was super.

We're having a discussion. That's how improvements happen.

 

Why don't we wait until we actually get to drive the thing before we start ripping it apart? There might be a few other things that were not mentioned that might totally change the direction of the discussion.

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The download PQs for more 501-1000 are still going to be in GPX format, right? Not just in LOC like the ones you get from a link in an email now?

 

Just thought I should ask and not assume.

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The download PQs for more 501-1000 are still going to be in GPX format, right? Not just in LOC like the ones you get from a link in an email now?

 

Just thought I should ask and not assume.

I think you can safely assume this one. I don't even want to imagine the firestorm if it is LOC only :blink:

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If large email attachments is a concern, and the only concern, then there should be a button in my account settings to enable large email attachments - as some of us can easily accomodate large attachments. Just like that GPX 1.0 vs GPX 1.0.1 button. Let me opt in if you're concerned my email provider will reject the large email.

Yes! I was thinking the same thing.

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sheeez. First they complain that 500 is too small. Then they complain that getting a 1000 will be a pain.

The size limit and the no-email restriction are two separate things:

 

		  500		1000
Email		 Good	   Good
No-Email	  Bad		Bad

 

The two we have is 500 with email and 1000 without email. I'd like 1000 with email as an option.

Edited by Avernar

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If you need to be logged in and download manually then this is gonna be a pain.

I'm waiting to see how this would actually be implemented. Without needing to login, this could be vulnerable to abuse (and a serious TOU violation). If there is a need to login, it makes automatic retrieval problematic.

They could always use the http basic authentication mechanism to protect the download links.

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The download PQs for more 501-1000 are still going to be in GPX format, right? Not just in LOC like the ones you get from a link in an email now?

 

Just thought I should ask and not assume.

I think you can safely assume this one. I don't even want to imagine the firestorm if it is LOC only :blink:

 

Marie Leveau's online store would be sold out of voodoo dolls in mere seconds!

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