I really am Baffled on Boston Church

[+GeoTrailGuy]

So long as Mare & Care are ok with it, I'm open to joining efforts on this search. Finding the final stage on this multi was easy but after stopping by twice, I'm currently at a loss.

 

Cache: Baffled on Boston Church

City: Milton, Ontario

Difficulty: Grrrr.

 

http://coord.info/GC24AD2

 

Let me know if you're interested.

[+SooMukwas]

Glad to see I wasn't the only one having a heck of a time with this one. We already did our time at this one. Took us about an hour and it was right under our noses too! Have fun, its well worth it once you find it!

[+res2100]

An excellent and probably one of the most creative caches I have ever seen. My wife and I found the cache yesterday after about 20 minutes of searching. GPS kept putting us in the same spot which was only 3m away so it was very accurate.

 

I am surprised that there are no DNFs posted on the cache page yet.

[+SooMukwas]

An excellent and probably one of the most creative caches I have ever seen. My wife and I found the cache yesterday after about 20 minutes of searching. GPS kept putting us in the same spot which was only 3m away so it was very accurate.

 

I am surprised that there are no DNFs posted on the cache page yet.

 

I'm thinking that some have come here more than once but don't like logging a DNF. I was just about ready to DNF it but the hint hit me good!

[+GeoTrailGuy]

I went by it quickly tonight to check on a hunch I had (still no luck) and given the apparent ground activity, there have been way more actual DNFs than finds. People are literally turning over every rock and tree branch.

[+Flintstone5611]

This hide was very unique. I must have sat there for like five minutes just appreciating the creativity. I loved that it had so many layers to the difficulty. Area, size, camo, options within reason, plus the puzzle!

 

You know that people are taking a shot at this cache, but think that they should be able to find it and so don't want to admit that they DNF it.

 

I almost want to ask people why they see DNFs as failure? It isn't absolute, it means that you are acknowledging that you gave it a try. I think that people have to look at DNFs as a news report rather than a confession. I don't have much experience in placing caches and so when I get detailed feedback it helps me a great deal. Plus, what if something is wrong with the cache, how will we know if we don't see any of the DNF logs?

 

Any and all effort that you can devote to this find won't result in disappointment. As far as I am concerned: "the juice is worth the squeeze"!!!

[Mr.Yuck]

I went by it quickly tonight to check on a hunch I had (still no luck) and given the apparent ground activity, there have been way more actual DNFs than finds. People are literally turning over every rock and tree branch.

 

You're sure about this? People have been there that didn't log any DNF's on the cache page?

Edited March 9, 2010 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+GeoTrailGuy]

I went by it quickly tonight to check on a hunch I had (still no luck) and given the apparent ground activity, there have been way more actual DNFs than finds. People are literally turning over every rock and tree branch.

 

You're sure about this? People have been there that didn't log any DNF's on the cache page?

 

Well I know that I'm at least one so yes, I'm sure about it.

[Mr.Yuck]

I went by it quickly tonight to check on a hunch I had (still no luck) and given the apparent ground activity, there have been way more actual DNFs than finds. People are literally turning over every rock and tree branch.

 

You're sure about this? People have been there that didn't log any DNF's on the cache page?

 

Well I know that I'm at least one so yes, I'm sure about it.

 

Just messing with 'ya. And I'm pretty certain I'm not the only one who noticed. You could post 1 or 5 though, you know.

[+Flintstone5611]

So I was chasing down a new cache close by the other day and had another cacher with me that had solved the puzzle for BOBC, but never went to go and get it yet. So I offered to take him there, but first I wanted to check with the CO to see if it was in good working order. He told we that he had performed some maintenance on the cache that day and it was ready to go.

 

When we got there it looked like a bomb went off, within 20ft of GZ was absolutely trashed. I couldn't believe just how much of a "presence" the last few cacher had left. The only thing that must be hard for the CO is that people aren't putting the cache back the way they found it. The effect on the camo is enough to drop the difficulty substantially, so they have to go out there and do a quick check after every found log to ensure that it stays at the rating.

 

The cacher that I brought there the other night, was brilliant. He took his time and methodically eliminated all the possibiblities until he found it. It was really fun to watch as he mentally dissected GZ.

[+GeoTrailGuy]

So I was chasing down a new cache close by the other day and had another cacher with me that had solved the puzzle for BOBC, but never went to go and get it yet. So I offered to take him there, but first I wanted to check with the CO to see if it was in good working order. He told we that he had performed some maintenance on the cache that day and it was ready to go.

 

When we got there it looked like a bomb went off, within 20ft of GZ was absolutely trashed. I couldn't believe just how much of a "presence" the last few cacher had left. The only thing that must be hard for the CO is that people aren't putting the cache back the way they found it. The effect on the camo is enough to drop the difficulty substantially, so they have to go out there and do a quick check after every found log to ensure that it stays at the rating.

 

The cacher that I brought there the other night, was brilliant. He took his time and methodically eliminated all the possibiblities until he found it. It was really fun to watch as he mentally dissected GZ.

 

I was just exchanging emails with the CO tonight. It sounds like the area has seen better days. I'm off all week and am going to try taking a shot at it when the weather lets up.

[+Flintstone5611]

I was just exchanging emails with the CO tonight. It sounds like the area has seen better days. I'm off all week and am going to try taking a shot at it when the weather lets up.

 

Speaking of which, the CO wanted me to check out the cache as there had been some traffic on it while they were away. It was a mess, the last person that was there totally disrespected the camo and the hide. To be totally honest there were two visits since it was checked on, it could have been either, but the last cacher left it in disarray. It was heart wrenching to know that premium members are trying to spite a cache or at the very minimum they aren't respecting the wishes of the CO!

Edited March 17, 2010 by Flintstone5611

[+rovers3]

I don't know what you mean by the statement

 

It was a mess, the last person that was there totally disrespected the camo and the hide. To be totally honest there were two visits since it was checked on, it could have been either, but the last cacher left it in disarray. It was heart wrenching to know that premium members are trying to spite a cache or at the very minimum they aren't respecting the wishes of the CO

 

When we were there we left it exactly as we had found it so I resent the fact that you are pointing at us or our caching buddies as possible ones who had left it a mess.

Don't know what it was like when it was first placed as we were not there.

[+Mare & Care]

I don't know what you mean by the statement

 

It was a mess, the last person that was there totally disrespected the camo and the hide. To be totally honest there were two visits since it was checked on, it could have been either, but the last cacher left it in disarray. It was heart wrenching to know that premium members are trying to spite a cache or at the very minimum they aren't respecting the wishes of the CO

 

When we were there we left it exactly as we had found it so I resent the fact that you are pointing at us or our caching buddies as possible ones who had left it a mess.

Don't know what it was like when it was first placed as we were not there.

 

OK I think it's time for me to clear this up. First off Flintstone5611 was not directly accusing you of anything. He said, he/ we were not sure who left the cache in disarray as I was unable to check on it since the last three finds were made.

 

Secondly the reason for his comments is based on my frustrations with some of the cachers. With the exception of the first three finds (JG,Jack Family & Avenar - the cache had been "tweaked" since then) 8/10 of the cachers have not been putting the cache back with the same "effort" that they used to get it. (I hope you realize what I mean by "effort", I don't want to spoil the cache for anyone who has not found it).

 

After almost every find I have had to perform maintenance because when some of the cachers have found it have not put it back in a way that maintains the difficulty level. So when I went back to check on the cache yesterday morning it was in the worst shape I've found it yet. If you would like to see what I mean I can send you a picture.

 

I have since sent out a request to a fellow cacher who also apparently had problems with cachers and his custom caches, and I have asked for some advice.

 

I just don't understand why after people see that considerable effort was put into creating a cache they don't try and do everything possible to maintain it's difficulty for the next cacher.

 

This must be the reason that we have so many light post caches (LPC's), experienced CO's know there is no point to putting effort into making caches because for the most part it is a maintenance nightmare.

[7rxc]

 

I just don't understand why after people see that considerable effort was put into creating a cache they don't try and do everything possible to maintain it's difficulty for the next cacher.

 

This must be the reason that we have so many light post caches (LPC's), experienced CO's know there is no point to putting effort into making caches because for the most part it is a maintenance nightmare.

 

I certainly agree with that part. I look after a few that are owned by people out of district... however they are popular hides and they should survive. Nothing fancy of course, but I'm amazed that either people can't be bothered returning them to the right place, or worse deliberately make them harder etc. I don't have any cached of my own yet, but the effort to keep these up takes up a lot of time, not to mention the 35km each way to do so... I go there anyway so it's not bad for me, but murder on the owner who is several hundred km each way... I guess I should be happy they don't get stolen too often. these are not fancy camo or anything either... just position sensitive, I like them to be visible (barely) and reachable just comfortable for most. Not really kid friendly, but just on the upper edge of wheelchair accessable, but I don't claim that... however it is T1 rating so I try... at most a little assistance to reach it might be in order... but it has to be placed back where it can be seen but just... and only if you look in the right place. Other than that it will have to go to T1.5 soon since it's getting hopeless to get it placed correctly, although some people get it back within a centimetre just fine.

 

Good luck on that one of yours, sadly I left Ontario years back and don't think I'll get a chance to try it.

I will hopefully be down there in May, but on a tight timeline for a wedding. We'll see.

 

Doug

[+dfx]

you're forgetting the fact that maybe somebody who didn't find the cache and also didn't log a DNF might have disturbed the camo without knowing it.

 

this thread got us curious and since we're close-ish we decided to stop for a visit the other day. weather was miserable so we didn't spend too much time on it, but we did some poking around at GZ trying to find the cache. of course we tried not to take anything apart that wasn't meant to come apart, and i assume that if we had touched the camo then we would have found the cache, but then again who knows?

 

without knowing where the cache is, it's impossible to tell what's part of the camo and what isn't. i assume there's lots more people that try to find the cache and are much less careful than we've been, and maybe end up destroying the camo without knowing it, because they didn't find the cache and so didn't know what they touched was part of the camo.

Edited March 17, 2010 by dfx

[+Mare & Care]

you're forgetting the fact that maybe somebody who didn't find the cache and also didn't log a DNF might have disturbed the camo without knowing it.

 

this thread got us curious and since we're close-ish we decided to stop for a visit the other day. weather was miserable so we didn't spend too much time on it, but we did some poking around at GZ trying to find the cache. of course we tried not to take anything apart that wasn't meant to come apart, and i assume that if we had touched the camo then we would have found the cache, but then again who knows?

 

without knowing where the cache is, it's impossible to tell what's part of the camo and what isn't. i assume there's lots more people that try to find the cache and are much less careful than we've been, and maybe end up destroying the camo without knowing it, because they didn't find the cache and so didn't know what they touched was part of the camo.

 

Just out of curiosity dfx if you came to find the cache and didn't find it, why haven't you posted a DNF?

[+dfx]

Just out of curiosity dfx if you came to find the cache and didn't find it, why haven't you posted a DNF?

because i don't log all my DNFs, especially not on high-difficulty caches. i log a DNF when i have a feeling that it may have gone missing, but if the cache description/rating tells me that it's well camoed and hard to find, i don't log a DNF unless i have been very thorough with searching, which in this case we weren't due to the weather.

[+Mare & Care]

Just out of curiosity dfx if you came to find the cache and didn't find it, why haven't you posted a DNF?

because i don't log all my DNFs, especially not on high-difficulty caches. i log a DNF when i have a feeling that it may have gone missing, but if the cache description/rating tells me that it's well camoed and hard to find, i don't log a DNF unless i have been very thorough with searching, which in this case we weren't due to the weather.

 

I must be mistaken then. My understanding is if you go to a cache and you Did Not Find it (aka DNF) that is exactly what a DNF log is for. If you have gone to a cache and feel it is gone then you could alway use the needs maintenance log, but I guess the DNF log could serve that purpose as well.

 

The irony in your above statement though, is that I have actually had other cachers say I should drop the difficulty on this cache because people are saying they are finding it in a few min and there is only one "DNF". The only reason that they are finding it in a few min is that it is their second,third,fourth time there and they have already eliminated other hiding spots, also they have had time to mentally dissect GZ before their next visit.

 

Then they try and make themselves feel good by saying "this one only took a few min", which in my mind is an insult to the previous cachers who had some sense of humility and actually said things like "this one took me a while ..", "we searched for 20min ...", "we searched and searched but after receiving a clue we were able to find it.." If I were those other cachers I would be pissed.

 

And to answer other people's thoughts or claims that some people get lucky, well this isn't one of those caches that you accidentally put your hand on without realizing it.

 

I just wish people were more honest in this game. I guess Gregory House is right ...

 

That is my rant.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Mare & Care

[+dfx]

I must be mistaken then. My understanding is if you go to a cache and you Did Not Find it (aka DNF) that is exactly what a DNF log is for. If you have gone to a cache and feel it is gone then you could alway use the needs maintenance log, but I guess the DNF log could serve that purpose as well.

yeah that's what a DNF log is for, but nobody says you're required to log one just because you didn't find a cache. you'll find plenty of people here who don't log all their DNFs, for various reasons. i'm sure some of them don't log any DNFs at all. heck, there's even some cachers who don't even log their finds!

 

and i'm not gonna post a NM just because i couldn't find a cache. if i find evidence that it may have been destroyed, then maybe yes.

 

The irony in your above statement though, is that I have actually had other cachers say I should drop the difficulty on this cache because people are saying they are finding it in a few min. The only reason that they are finding it in a few min is that it is their second,third,fourth time there and they have already eliminated other hiding spots, also they have had time to mentally dissect GZ before their next visit.

that's actually another reason why i don't log all DNFs. i may want to go back and try again. once i went 3 or 4 times and still can't find it and am ready to give up, then i log a DNF. i'd rather not spam a cache listing with 3 or 4 consecutive DNFs. i'm sure plenty of cachers do it the same way, perhaps then ending up not going again and thus never logging a DNF.

 

but like i said, different people have different ways of logging DNFs. if you want everybody to log every single DNF, ask them to do so in your cache listing (seen that before in other cache listings). it still doesn't guarantee to get them all though.

Edited March 17, 2010 by dfx

[+Flintstone5611]

I don't know what you mean by the statement

 

It was a mess, the last person that was there totally disrespected the camo and the hide. To be totally honest there were two visits since it was checked on, it could have been either, but the last cacher left it in disarray. It was heart wrenching to know that premium members are trying to spite a cache or at the very minimum they aren't respecting the wishes of the CO

 

When we were there we left it exactly as we had found it so I resent the fact that you are pointing at us or our caching buddies as possible ones who had left it a mess.

Don't know what it was like when it was first placed as we were not there.

were you the last cacher there? if so, then yes i am blaming you, but if you look at the logs, you weren't!

[+rovers3]

To be totally honest there were two visits since it was checked on, it could have been either

 

Since we were in the second last group that logged the find the part of the quote about infers that it could have been us and this is what I was objecting to.

 

I repeat, we left it as we found it and if it was left in disarray after we left it is because that is the way we found it.

 

It could have been one of the parties that had a DNF, from what we know there have been many of those, but did not log it as such so there may also have been others there after the last person to log.

[+CacheDrone]

There is no requirement to log a DNF. Actually there is also no requirement to log a Found It either. Many people do not log their finds online.

 

As BQ, I've cached with one person that has not logged a cache in over 3 years but has found thousands. Instead they take a picture of each find. I guess they do not want their stats or activity posted as some people judge that stuff as important.

[+GeoTrailGuy]

you're forgetting the fact that maybe somebody who didn't find the cache and also didn't log a DNF might have disturbed the camo without knowing it.

 

this thread got us curious and since we're close-ish we decided to stop for a visit the other day. weather was miserable so we didn't spend too much time on it, but we did some poking around at GZ trying to find the cache. of course we tried not to take anything apart that wasn't meant to come apart, and i assume that if we had touched the camo then we would have found the cache, but then again who knows?

 

without knowing where the cache is, it's impossible to tell what's part of the camo and what isn't. i assume there's lots more people that try to find the cache and are much less careful than we've been, and maybe end up destroying the camo without knowing it, because they didn't find the cache and so didn't know what they touched was part of the camo.

 

Having just found this cache today, I would be willing to accept that your suggestion is likely the case. M&C did a great job on the camo. I walked by it and thought it was legit. I looked at it thinking it was legit. I touched it repeatedly thinking it was legit. I almost overlooked it even after figuring it out.

 

I was close to logging a simple "found it in 2 minutes" comment just to piss of M&C as payback for my aggravation

[+Mare & Care]

 

Having just found this cache today, I would be willing to accept that your suggestion is likely the case. M&C did a great job on the camo. I walked by it and thought it was legit. I looked at it thinking it was legit. I touched it repeatedly thinking it was legit. I almost overlooked it even after figuring it out.

 

I was close to logging a simple "found it in 2 minutes" comment just to piss of M&C as payback for my aggravation

 

Congrats on the find! Now get to work on the other two.

[+GeoTrailGuy]

 

Having just found this cache today, I would be willing to accept that your suggestion is likely the case. M&C did a great job on the camo. I walked by it and thought it was legit. I looked at it thinking it was legit. I touched it repeatedly thinking it was legit. I almost overlooked it even after figuring it out.

 

I was close to logging a simple "found it in 2 minutes" comment just to piss of M&C as payback for my aggravation

 

Congrats on the find! Now get to work on the other two.

 

The only problem I have with the other two Baffled caches is the search time that might be required. I do 95% of my caching with my 4 and 2 year olds so we're typically looking for <2 D/T ratings that can keep them engaged. I'm grateful they didn't want to come along to the Baffled on Boston search

 

I'll get to the other two eventually.

[+Flintstone5611]

Having just found this cache today, I would be willing to accept that your suggestion is likely the case. M&C did a great job on the camo. I walked by it and thought it was legit. I looked at it thinking it was legit. I touched it repeatedly thinking it was legit. I almost overlooked it even after figuring it out.

 

I was close to logging a simple "found it in 2 minutes" comment just to piss of M&C as payback for my aggravation

 

Bwahahahahahahahaaha! You shoulda done it!!