GeoCASHing?

[Supermoves]

Hello!

 

This is my first post and first visit to a geocaching website though apparently I signed up in 2006 and forgot, haha!). I got started when I picked up an iphone about 3 months ago, and discovered a geocaching application. Since it said there was a cache within .5 miles of me, I decided to go find it, which I did.

 

It was fun, but Im not particularly "outdoorsy" and felt it wasnt really worth it for me to find some little toys or a geocoin. But hey, if there was $20 in there I would do it. Or if there were a series of clues that led to $500, maybe I would even do it all day!

 

So that led to my business idea, and I would really love input on it (including if it already exists somewhere!) would people be willing to pay a membership fee, say maybe $99 for the year, in order to go on multi-stage caches with a cash prize?

 

What would be really cool is if the idea took off and we could start having really huge prizes, like $5k or something. To start I envision something like daily $20 caches with weekly $250 caches and monthly $500 caches, hidden around my area.

 

It was just something interesting and I wondered if other people would be as likley to do it as I am?

 

Thanks!

Edited March 5, 2010 by Supermoves

[+WatchDog2020]

In my humble opinion - not interested - It's about the Journey, that is the reward.

Edited March 5, 2010 by WatchDog2020

[+Woodstramp]

Supermoves,

 

You're thinking of something like "Cache-Lotto"?

 

If some that are playing now are willing steal $3 L-N-L's, $5 ammo cans, etc. I can imagine there'd be STF bodies laying around your "jackpot" caches.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Woodstramp

[+uxorious]

Where would the money come from? If it came only from membership fees, there would be no way a person could find more money than their membership fees.

Unless it was set up as a gambling game, in which case it would probably run afoul of the gambling laws in most states.

I still wouldn't look for one of these, I don't cache for the prize, I cache for the search and adventure.

 

Robert Service had it right.

 

There's gold and it's haunting and haunting

It is luring me on as of old.

 

Yet it isn't the gold I am wanting

So much as just finding the gold.

 

[Supermoves]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. To answer the question of the 2nd poster, to begin, the money would come out of my own pocket, as with many business ventures.

 

But the hope would be that if many people became a part of the site, paying their $99-per-year "dues", then it would begin making money. For example, 1 new user would pay for an entire weeks worth of $20 caches.

 

If one were to do daily $20, weekly $250 and monthly $500, all of that would be supported by just 19 members. So the potential to grow seems huge...of course, assuming people would want to cache for money, which is why I am exploring the idea with you fine folks :-)

[+narcissa]

Sounds like the makings of a ponzi scheme to me.

[Supermoves]

Oh, please don't say that...I really want input on this idea and posts like that are just going to discourage people.

 

I am not trying to steal from people, I am trying to make money from a fun activity. It seems like the business structure is very viable (every 19 members pays for an entire months worth of caches), but I am just curious if people would participate.

[+BrrrMo]

Oh, please don't say that...I really want input on this idea and posts like that are just going to discourage people.

 

I am not trying to steal from people, I am trying to make money from a fun activity. It seems like the business structure is very viable (every 19 members pays for an entire months worth of caches), but I am just curious if people would participate.

 

What you propose violates many of the Groundspeak guidelines. If you want to do something like this build your own website, and I will be there. Just my opinion.

 

No finds, no hides Sock Puppet, me thinks.

Edited March 5, 2010 by BrrrMo

[+9Key]

So every finder of a cache gets $20, or just the first to find?

 

No offense, but someone that comes in trying to make money of me and my fellow cachers and isn't a cacher themselves is a little off-putting.

[Supermoves]

I understand your position, and hope you can come to forgive me :-)

 

Just the FTF would get the cash. The initial coordinates would be published on the website, so that everyone would have access to the initial coordinates at the same time. From then on, first one would win.

 

Also, please understand that I am just exploring this option with people who seem to really love the sport. I do not have a website, or a hidden agenda, I was just looking for feedback on something that I am really just in the basic stages of learning about...and it seems really fun!

[+atmospherium]

I can't see this idea flying. If only the FTF gets the cash, then only the elite ultra-competitive cachers will be interested. The average cachers, who cache for the fun of it (by far the majority of cachers) will never fork over any membership fee for an entire year of being 5th to find. I think you would end up giving the cash to the same 1 or 2 cachers every day. Might as well just write them a check and call it quits.

 

And, if you aren't an outdoors type person, who will be hiding these multi caches? They would have to very well done, very involved and thought-out. You can't just sit at your desk and pocket the membership money.

 

I don't mean any offense. There's nothing wrong with trying out new ideas. I personally would not be interested in this type of caching, and don't think it would be succesful. Heck, if I found a cache today with a $20 in it, I would probably leave it there. The search is its own reward.

[+The Blorenges]

Just a few comments...

 

I understand your position, and hope you can come to forgive me :-)

 

Just the FTF would get the cash. The initial coordinates would be published on the website, so that everyone would have access to the initial coordinates at the same time. From then on, first one would win.

 

The FTF Game is played by a relatively small sub-section of geocachers as a whole. The promise of $20 in the cache for the FTF would not tempt me into that side of the game.

 

Also, please understand that I am just exploring this option with people who seem to really love the sport. I do not have a website, or a hidden agenda, I was just looking for feedback on something that I am really just in the basic stages of learning about...and it seems really fun!

 

Yes, it is really fun. It's a hobby that can be enjoyed on many levels, by cachers of all ages, on their own, with friends or family groups. For most of these people (I'd guess for the majority) the pleasure is to be had in simply getting outside for a walk, along with a view, maybe the companionship, a humourous/cunning/inspiring hide, the pleasure of finding an unexpected TB or geocoin, discovering a local spot they'd never visited before... Things that would not be greatly enhanced by bringing money into the equation.

 

As mentioned in another post, Groundspeak who run this site will not allow any commercial references in caches listed on it. There are various other 'treasure hunting' sites already out there and I think you'll find it necessary to start your own version if you wish to proceed with developing your idea.

 

MrsB

[Supermoves]

I knew this community would give great feedback.

 

Perhaps it would be better to be more environmental. Instead of giving 1 person $20, maybe I could donate $1 to a land conservation charity for every person who finds the cache! And then once a month, we could have a big one where we donate $50 to land conservation for everyone who finds it?

 

Of course, then youd probably have people just telling their friends where it is. Man, the logistics of this are tough!

 

I do like the idea of helping to conserve land and open spaces though, thats actually one of the things my non-profit does (non that I would donate it to my own non-profit though, haha)!

[+narcissa]

I knew this community would give great feedback.

 

Perhaps it would be better to be more environmental. Instead of giving 1 person $20, maybe I could donate $1 to a land conservation charity for every person who finds the cache! And then once a month, we could have a big one where we donate $50 to land conservation for everyone who finds it?

 

Of course, then youd probably have people just telling their friends where it is. Man, the logistics of this are tough!

 

I do like the idea of helping to conserve land and open spaces though, thats actually one of the things my non-profit does (non that I would donate it to my own non-profit though, haha)!

 

Have you READ the guidelines? It doesn't look like it.

 

I think this thread needs to be shut down.

[+Prime Suspect]

You're hardly the first to come up with a pay-to-play scheme with prizes, and one or two even tried to make happen. You're probably familiar with their names. No? Well, there's a reason for that.

[+niraD]

It's hard enough to keep caches full of trinkets safe from muggles. I would expect it to be much harder to keep them safe from muggles if the caches contained cash.

 

And as others have pointed out, you may be required to comply with your local "gaming" laws, given the combination of "pay to play" and cash awards.

[+tozainamboku]

Have you READ the guidelines? It doesn't look like it.

 

I think this thread needs to be shut down.

Not sure the OP is proposing listing caches on geocaching.com. Sounds more like he wants to creat his own website that would be a little more competitive than what we do here. His question is more of "If I set up a site like this, how many of you would be interested".

 

Clearly not many who would respond the forums. I would venture not many geocachers who don't come here as well. But there are always people looking for a way to develop something with more competition involved and perhaps some rewards as well, so perhaps he could make a go of it.

 

There have been several promotional contests - some in conjuction with this website - with prizes given out for finding geocaches. You might want to look at some of these old threads

Geocaching Contests

[+chachi44089]

I would be afraid that it would create another "species"of geocacher that might be much more brazen in their effort to locate the"cash".Thrashed bushes,confrontations,illegal parking,speeding ect.

[+popokiiti]

Sorry, but I don't think your idea would fly in the format you have presented. As others have said, the journey and the sights seen are reward enough. I think you need to do some geocaching yourself before embarking on setting up competitions/hiding caches.

Making this sport/hobby/addiction about the money would detract from it IMHO. There are already competitions set up by experienced cachers from our area, and those that organise it do it for the pleasure of it, not for monetary gain.

[+uxorious]

Sounds like the makings of a ponzi scheme to me.

 

It seems it would be either a ponzi scheme or some sort of gambling.

 

I am not the sharpest when it comes to economics, but I am still trying to figure out how this would work.

 

If the money in the caches comes from new members, it would be a ponzi, and would only work as long as you are getting new members.

 

If the money is only for the lucky cacher, (FTF, or first to get there after the money is placed.) then it would be gambling. (most areas have laws regulating gambling.)

 

The caches themselves are not going to create more income, and so the total amount of money you have to put in the cache is the money paid for membership.

 

Why give someone $20 to put in a cache so I can go take the $20 back out?

 

[+ras_oscar]

Personally I'm not a fan of the OP's idea. However, if you wanted to try out the interest, perhaps you sponsor an event. Describe the tennants and hand out the cache descriptons at the "launch". Allows you gage local interest without actually listing the caches on Groundspeak and running afoul of the GS rules. IMHO the gambling rules really don't apply, it sounds more like a really generous FTF prize. By nature it'd be regional, unless you plan on running all around the country planting caches.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Well, I hope you don't feel insulted by this, but it sounds like you're talking about setting up your own Geocaching website as a for profit business. Well, that would be in direct competition to Groundspeaks websites, so probably isn't allowed to be discussed here. BTW...if you DO find some Geocoins out in the Caches you seek, they are meant to travel, not to be kept.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I knew this community would give great feedback.

 

Perhaps it would be better to be more environmental. Instead of giving 1 person $20, maybe I could donate $1 to a land conservation charity for every person who finds the cache! And then once a month, we could have a big one where we donate $50 to land conservation for everyone who finds it?

 

Of course, then youd probably have people just telling their friends where it is. Man, the logistics of this are tough!

 

I do like the idea of helping to conserve land and open spaces though, thats actually one of the things my non-profit does (non that I would donate it to my own non-profit though, haha)!

Maybe you could just play the game to play the game, or not. What you're proposing will need to be done some other place besides here.

[+NeecesandNephews]

I knew this community would give great feedback.

 

Perhaps it would be better to be more environmental. Instead of giving 1 person $20, maybe I could donate $1 to a land conservation charity for every person who finds the cache! And then once a month, we could have a big one where we donate $50 to land conservation for everyone who finds it?

 

Of course, then youd probably have people just telling their friends where it is. Man, the logistics of this are tough!

 

I do like the idea of helping to conserve land and open spaces though, thats actually one of the things my non-profit does (non that I would donate it to my own non-profit though, haha)!

Maybe you could just play the game to play the game, or not. What you're proposing will need to be done some other place besides here.

 

 

I agree. If you came here to play the game or to converse about the game with other people who play, great!!

 

If you came here trying to make a buck off the game, you have your responses, so...

[+uxorious]

IMHO the gambling rules really don't apply, it sounds more like a really generous FTF prize.

 

What am I missing here? If you pay a membership to find caches with cash in them, wouldn't you hope to find more than you paid?

 

Why would someone pay $20 to find a cache with $20 or less? The hope would be to find more, otherwise you could just keep your money and dip it in a cache you find.

 

If everyone paid $20 to look for these caches, then the most everyone could get out would be $20. Otherwise it would be gambling. If I am wrong, then please tell me where the money will come from to assure everyone has ability to get out more then they put in.

 

I'm not saying there would be anything wrong with the gambling aspect. I wouldn't be interested as I don't gamble. However, I know a lot of people that do and enjoy it. However, there are regulations in most places for gambling, and if this was going to be a business you would need to be aware of them.

[+Prime Suspect]

IMHO the gambling rules really don't apply, it sounds more like a really generous FTF prize.

 

What am I missing here? If you pay a membership to find caches with cash in them, wouldn't you hope to find more than you paid?

 

Why would someone pay $20 to find a cache with $20 or less? The hope would be to find more, otherwise you could just keep your money and dip it in a cache you find.

 

If everyone paid $20 to look for these caches, then the most everyone could get out would be $20. Otherwise it would be gambling. If I am wrong, then please tell me where the money will come from to assure everyone has ability to get out more then they put in.

 

I'm not saying there would be anything wrong with the gambling aspect. I wouldn't be interested as I don't gamble. However, I know a lot of people that do and enjoy it. However, there are regulations in most places for gambling, and if this was going to be a business you would need to be aware of them.

In the US, at least, it's not gambling if the outcome is based on skill, rather than chance. A round of golf, where every participant puts in $20, and the winner takes the pot, is not considered gambling, as the outcome is decided by skill and not chance. Poker is considered gambling, because the cards are randomized, and the worst player in the world can win a hand against the best in the world. Over time, the better players trend to win more, but the law doesn't consider that. Likewise, bingo is gambling, darts is not. Note that there may also be GAMING laws that come into effect.

[DannyCaffeine]

First of all you coming on here with these ideas is SUSPICIOUS. It seems like your from a company or a marketing firm trying to make a quick buck off of us.

 

Second we cache because we enjoy it. REAL geocachers don't do it for profit. We do it for fun.

[Knight-Errant]

Several thoughts. . .

 

1. As mentioned before, it would probably not run afowl of gambling laws as there IS an element of skill involved.

 

2. Laws regarding ponzi schemes might be a problem, but would depend on the specific wording and interpretation of the laws of the applicable state.

 

3. As for the money, it would work not much difference that an office sports pool. Participants would be willing to fork over a little in the hope of winning it all.

 

4. Such an idea would have many bad consequeces for geocaching even it not associated with Groundspeak: the aforementioned agressive caching, the bad financial reputation (if IF it did not get into legal trouble), temporary caches (once the money is found, the cache served its only purpose), would attract a less that desireable group of cachers, etc.

 

5. It is not something that we would participate in and we would discourage others' paticipation as well.

[tiiiim]

Crikey, seems like a few people are really laying into this guy!! Give him a chance!

 

Personally, I'm not really in it for the FTF. As a result, I wouldn't be interested. However, there are a number of people who are absolutely all about the FTF, and they're the ones your aiming for - it's fairly well known that the majority of the guys in this forum aren't the latter, hence the negative (and sometimes rude sounding) replies.

 

Good luck with your venture - every idea's gotta start somewhere!

[+Crew 153]

So, what happens to the cache after the money is collected? Does it just become a bit of trash which no one wants to visit or does it become a monument to the FTF?. If there is no further incentive to locate the cache the rest of the paying members would not want to look for it.

 

Where are the caches to be located? In the centre point of a group of paying members and then watch for the frenzy? Or, on top of a 5/5 mountain with an almost impossible puzzle to solve and then a 10 point multi over 6 states?

 

What incentive is there for someone who does not live near the cache to travel for hours to arrive to find they are STF and cache is empty?

[+fishgeek]

How many cache maggots would come out of the woodwork if they knew that there was money in some of the caches???

 

I would be afraid that it would create another "species"of geocacher that might be much more brazen in their effort to locate the"cash".Thrashed bushes,confrontations,illegal parking,speeding ect.

[Supermoves]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I think I am going to let this idea die.

 

Many of you raise legitimate concerns, but the bottom line is: if the majority of people on the largest geocaching forum are not into this, than that is probably a reflection of the rest of the geocaching community.

 

I guess I will just continue to go around caching with my family and keep my day job :-)!

[+Anno Lynke]

good idea to let it die

 

I dont see you being able to run something like this in an area larger than a city

I live in Columbus Oh there are maybe 10 ftf hounds in the area

If they all played you would not be covering expenses

 

maybe if you held an event where you would have 50 hides around city

and everyone was given coordinates at once

prereg people so you know you will break even

[+ArcherDragoon]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. To answer the question of the 2nd poster, to begin, the money would come out of my own pocket, as with many business ventures.

 

But the hope would be that if many people became a part of the site, paying their $99-per-year "dues", then it would begin making money. For example, 1 new user would pay for an entire weeks worth of $20 caches.

Seven days in a week...$20 per day...um...that is $140...not $99

 

If one were to do daily $20, weekly $250 and monthly $500, all of that would be supported by just 19 members. So the potential to grow seems huge...of course, assuming people would want to cache for money, which is why I am exploring the idea with you fine folks :-)

365 Days...$7300...52 Weeks...$13,000...12 Months...$6,000...$26,300 Total...needing 265.6...so 266 members...

 

My vote would still be no...sorry...

[+ChaceGuild]

Although I'm a newbie, this does sound very dodgy.

 

The whole draw of Geocaching (IMHO) is that it's fun - finding money as a "prize" just isn't the same as finding a little plastic soldier Yes, money is nice, and I'd quite like some more, but getting it from a fun hobby just seems morally wrong.

 

Just my opinion.