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How to PLAY with Cache RAIDERS? ;O)


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We have had a massive rash of caches raided in the area especially all the geocoins. It's been totally frustrating and irritating and personally I have grown weary of having to go to someone's unique geocoin page and report it missing.

 

So just came up with a rather manacle idea and of course this is a great place to pass it along. Thinking about taking a few coins from my private collection and activating them. Then on the coin listing page putting some outrageous beautiful fantastic amazing picture making it look big, neat, unique and EXPENSIVE. Then pick some regular cache (or caches) that are real bears to get to (I don't mean "bears" I mean tough) with no trackable inside and plopping them in it via log, not literally, just online. Regular cachers would pretty much understand that sometimes inventories don't match contents so they would probably just report that the coin(s) weren't there. BUT someone who is a cache raider would be drolling seeing that pop up and would be totally frustrated when they arrived and nothing was there. Oops :blink: Might actually make them think twice about raiding.

 

It might "bother" a regular cacher but a regular cache probably runs across caches who's contents don't match the inventory all the time. But it would be kind of like a fishing trip to snag a few RAIDERS :(

 

Unethical? Frowned upon? Or just a different twist on the game? Just tired of this cr@p and feel a need to do something about it beyond making loads of caches premium only.

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It might "bother" a regular cacher but a regular cache probably runs across caches who's contents don't match the inventory all the time. But it would be kind of like a fishing trip to snag a few RAIDERS :blink:

If you want to stop a cache maggot then toying with and aggravating him is exactly the wrong way to do it. As long as he knows that his perfidy is working he'll keep at it. your trying to catch or stop him will likely lead to his redoubling his efforts.

 

Unethical? Yes

 

Frowned upon? Yes

 

Or just a different twist on the game? And not a good one.

 

Just tired of this cr@p and feel a need to do something about it beyond making loads of caches premium only.

 

Take a deep breath and repeat Rambler's Mantra...

 

The best thing about geocaching is that anyone can play.

The worst thing about geocaching is...that anyone can play!

 

I feel your pain, I quit having geocoins made because the thousands that I had made just disappeared.

 

Still, going vigilante and trying to hunt down the cache maggot likely won't get you anywhere and will just keep you upset. Life's too short. :(

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Not only do I think that this plan wouldn't work, but I also think that it will irritate local cachers as much as or more than the cache raider already is. After all, from their perspective, it works out the same. They find a cache and the listed trackable isn't in there. The only difference between that cache and the 'raided' cache is that there was a period of time during which they could have found a cache in the 'not yet raided' cache.

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So just came up with a rather manacle idea and of course this is a great place to pass it along.

 

Why would you want to handcuff the other cachers in your area like this?

Not a good idea. Ignore the creep, they will get bored and move along to cause trouble somewhere else. They want attention, even this thread is a bad idea as it gives them press and exposure.

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When you are under attack, go deep, make your caches an effort to find. Most cache maggots don't consider work to be fun.

 

Interesting. Travelbugs/trackables might be safer in multi and puzzle caches. Are the cache maggots in the OP's area also raiding multis and puzzles or just the traditionals?

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Interesting. Travelbugs/trackables might be safer in multi and puzzle caches. Are the cache maggots in the OP's area also raiding multis and puzzles or just the traditionals?
Just traditionals and not just mine. As far as handcuffing or bothering other legit local cachers, they are the ones already discovering TB's and coins are NOT in the caches as the inventory shows. They don't seem too bent about that now, they just put "no coins in cache" in their logs (or something along those lines).

 

Also unfortunately this kind of lends itself to making easy to find caches micros yet if we do that, then there's another group of micro-haters who would b*tch because there's no regulars around. How do you control trackables in caches? Put a note in the listing stating PLEASE DO NOT PLACE TRACKABLES IN THIS CACHE AS THEY MAY BE STOLEN. That would really put a damper on the whole reason to put a traditional out there. Especially things like rest area TB motels.

 

As far as "ignoring the creep", that would be fine except when I have to email someone saying things like "Sorry to inform you that the trackable coin you put out in honor of your fallen military son that had 20,000 miles on it was stolen by some creep". I doubt they want to "ignore the creep" any more then I do.

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When you are under attack, go deep, make your caches an effort to find. Most cache maggots don't consider work to be fun.

Most 'normal' people don't consider work to be fun.

 

geocacher ≠ normal.

 

How about: Most cache maggots don't consider a challenge to be fun.

 

:)

Edited by BlueDeuce
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Not a good idea. Ignore the creep, they will get bored and move along to cause trouble somewhere else. They want attention, even this thread is a bad idea as it gives them press and exposure.
I doubt they want attention, seems to me they want free geocoins which they can get any time anything pops up in a cache's inventory. And I doubt they'll "go away" as they probably live in the area, even if just a snow-bird seasonal thing.

 

Kind of want to do it as some detective work. Kind of think that if a raider ("creep") goes to a cache to steal coins and they don't find any, they might just log the find to put a note to say there were no coins in the cache. At least they'd get something for their efforts and wouldn't walk away empty handed. But if a particular cacher seems to zoom to the caches where coins get logged soon after they get logged in it could be a little detective-like to start forming a picture of who's doing it.

 

It was also suggested to set up a cache we could put a web cam at. I was thinking of doing this for entertainment at one time, but now it could be done to bust a raider. Just a thought.

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You can't control other people, but you can control how you react to them. Ignore the creeps and leave the vigilante justice in the movies where it belongs.

Probably right with that. I have lost my fair share of my own trackables and hate to be the one to have to tell people their personally valuable memorabilia or coins are gone :) Made most of my easy to snag traditionals in to premium only caches but kind of hate doing that as people new to the sport will be running around not knowing those even exist.

 

But then again many people new to the sport don't have a clue as to what a TB or geocoin is or how to log it. There's a possibility they just think the coins are swag and snag 'em cause they're neat not knowing they're supposed to log them out. But when coins are placed, then we check the hide with no logged finds and the stuff is gone with no logged finds, that's raiding, not rookies.

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I am still relatively new to caching, but have heard and read so many stories about missing trackables. I have no intention of ever putting any of my coins (what few I have) out into the wild. There are just WAY too many that go missing. The ones I own are for my enjoyment, and available for discovery by my friends at events and such. While it is certainly interesting and fun to discover and move them along in caches, coming across them has become increasingly rare in this part of the world. If I wanted to throw away $15 - $30 in a cache, why not just toss in the currency and leave out the middle men? Same result achieved... but less angst, wondering if it will ever turn up again. Just my $0.02

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I am still relatively new to caching, but have heard and read so many stories about missing trackables. I have no intention of ever putting any of my coins (what few I have) out into the wild. There are just WAY too many that go missing. The ones I own are for my enjoyment, and available for discovery by my friends at events and such. While it is certainly interesting and fun to discover and move them along in caches, coming across them has become increasingly rare in this part of the world. If I wanted to throw away $15 - $30 in a cache, why not just toss in the currency and leave out the middle men? Same result achieved... but less angst, wondering if it will ever turn up again. Just my $0.02

The easy answer to your question is because it is interesting to see these items travel from cache to cache. I think the major angst comes into play because people believe that their items will (must) be highly successful travelers. That belief is unrealistic, in my opinion.
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We have had a massive rash of caches raided in the area especially all the geocoins. It's been totally frustrating and irritating and personally I have grown weary of having to go to someone's unique geocoin page and report it missing.

 

So just came up with a rather manacle idea and of course this is a great place to pass it along. Thinking about taking a few coins from my private collection and activating them. Then on the coin listing page putting some outrageous beautiful fantastic amazing picture making it look big, neat, unique and EXPENSIVE. Then pick some regular cache (or caches) that are real bears to get to (I don't mean "bears" I mean tough) with no trackable inside and plopping them in it via log, not literally, just online. Regular cachers would pretty much understand that sometimes inventories don't match contents so they would probably just report that the coin(s) weren't there. BUT someone who is a cache raider would be drolling seeing that pop up and would be totally frustrated when they arrived and nothing was there. Oops :) Might actually make them think twice about raiding.

 

It might "bother" a regular cacher but a regular cache probably runs across caches who's contents don't match the inventory all the time. But it would be kind of like a fishing trip to snag a few RAIDERS :D

 

Unethical? Frowned upon? Or just a different twist on the game? Just tired of this cr@p and feel a need to do something about it beyond making loads of caches premium only.

 

Do it.

 

It's not really engaging them, or doing anything too far out of the ordinary. You are only luring them out to remote areas to steal something that is not there. Eventually they may get tired of it. Many cachers routinely run into caches with missing coins anyway because of the theif's actions. It's one thing to have coins go missing due to people forgetting to log it or newbies not being familiar, but when you notice people are visiting caches just to take the coins (and not logging a find) is what annoys me.

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That would be like listing fake caches to annoy cache thieves. It serves to annoy cache seekers just as much as the cache thief does and the thief may never notice.
I don't agree as I don't know any legit cachers who visit a cache for the sole purpose of snagging a trackable. They're going to snag the smilie and if there's a trackable then that's icing on the cake. If they go to snag a trackable item and it's not there it could be missing due to someone snagging it between when they read the listing and when they arrived, someone snagged it a while back and hasn't logged it, or it's been stolen/raided/muggled. Missing trackables is not a rarity and if that's why a legit cacher visits a hide then regardless of "fake" coins, they're going to experience a lot of frustration.

 

On the other hand, a cache raider WILL definitely visit a cache for the sole purpose of snagging a free trackable (normally geocoin). The thought is that if THEY visit caches and the items listed in the inventory are not there, THEY might get tired of THEIR raider game and quit. A legit cacher will just write it off as part of the game, log their find and move on. Happens hundreds of times a day.

 

But the raider might tire of their game if the bogus coins are in a cache that's tough to get to. And I don't mean a ten mile hike tough as I doubt even they would trek that far for a coin, but something like a semi-urban cache in a tough placement to get to. One I have in mind is at the end of a near country road, to get to it is crossing a little creek that is overgrown with thorn bushes and will almost definitely draw blood :)

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I do it all the time.
And how often are they totally disappointed because a trackable item listed in the inventory isn't in the cache? What I've seen lately you have a pretty good chance of the trackable NOT being there and if it's a long hike or something to get to it, that wouldn't be a lot of fun. And most of those times it's because someone snagged it before you, not it was stolen.

 

If I thought I had a pretty good chance of a cache being missing when I arrived I probably would of quit a long @ss time ago.... so would a lot of people.

Edited by infiniteMPG
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Says the guy that wants to create fake caches for the purpose of aggravating coin thieves. Nice.
Maybe read the OP... the thread is about creating bogus geocoins as bait for raiders. Nothing was ever said about creating fake caches. Just logging a coin into a cache where it's not.

 

Cacher wanders a few hundred feet down trail....

"Dum, de-dum, dum.... where might that cache be? Hmmm, at base of tree... OH, here it is! Ya-Hoo!!!"

Click, pop, open.... creeeeeak...

"WHAT?!?!?! Inventory said there's a geocoin in here.... WHAT THE HECK!!! What a friggin rip-off! The h3ll with geocaching. I QUIT!!!!"

 

Yeah, I'm sure it would really drive legit cachers over the edge :)

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I do it all the time.
And how often are they totally disappointed because a trackable item listed in the inventory isn't in the cache? What I've seen lately you have a pretty good chance of the trackable NOT being there and if it's a long hike or something to get to it, that wouldn't be a lot of fun. And most of those times it's because someone snagged it before you, not it was stolen.

 

If I thought I had a pretty good chance of a cache being missing when I arrived I probably would of quit a long @ss time ago.... so would a lot of people.

 

Happens all the time. I was in the Pensacola area a couple of weeks ago and found four different caches:

 

GCQGMT 1 TB listed- nothing found.

GCPVA0 2 geocoins listed- nothing found

GC1AX56 2 TB and a geocoin listed- nothing found

GC1035Y 1 TB listed- nothing found

 

I was disapointed that the trackables were not there, but it happens. I'm more disapointed that the trackable owners have all been notified that their TB/coins are missing but have not moved them out of the cache- or failing that it would be nice if the cache owners would update the trackable inventory.

 

How does you putting out a cache and then listing trackables as in the cache but never putting them in there fix anything? You would be adding to the problem! Explain to me how I'm going to find your cache and feel any better about not finding those trackables.

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Says the guy that wants to create fake caches for the purpose of aggravating coin thieves. Nice.
Maybe read the OP... the thread is about creating bogus geocoins as bait for raiders. Nothing was ever said about creating fake caches. Just logging a coin into a cache where it's not.

 

Oh silly me. Not fakes caches, but fake trackables. Oh yes, that's a world of difference.

 

Cacher wanders a few hundred feet down trail....

"Dum, de-dum, dum.... where might that cache be? Hmmm, at base of tree... OH, here it is! Ya-Hoo!!!"

Click, pop, open.... creeeeeak...

"WHAT?!?!?! Inventory said there's a geocoin in here.... WHAT THE HECK!!! What a friggin rip-off! The h3ll with geocaching. I QUIT!!!!"

 

Yeah, I'm sure it would really drive legit cachers over the edge :)

 

And how is this any different from what happens when I don't find a TB/coin that's been stolen? Huh? Apparently it's driven you over the edge.

Edited by Castle Mischief
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To the OP:

 

How are you certain its a cache raider? How long since the travelers started going missing? I found a cache with a traveler in it that wasn't listed in the cache page. Logged it as discovered and got a PM from the person who dropped it in 6 moths prior (cache didn't get a lot of traffic, in the middle of a swamp) Dropper was apologetic and asked me how to electronically drop a coin. Lesson given, now the game has one more player that knows what to do. I'm fairly certain after 6 months the owner had all but given up hope. Bug was still in the game. I've read threads on this forum of bugs going stealth for several YEARS and then suddenly reappearing.

 

Perhaps I am overly optimistic, but you're talking about setting out a $300 game cameras to catch a maggot that swiped a $30 coin. Personally I think it'd be more fruitful to set as swag in your cache coin sleeves with blank ownership and travel documents. I've seen a few travelers with these "passports" and it helps me determine whether my wanderings can help a particular traveler on its mission.

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I don't agree as I don't know any legit cachers who visit a cache for the sole purpose of snagging a trackable. They're going to snag the smilie and if there's a trackable then that's icing on the cake.

 

I used to do this all the time. Coins and icons were shiny and new and interesting to me when I first started caching, so I would visit previously found caches to hunt them down. Eventually, geocaching for geocaching's sake became more interesting and coin/icon hunting became less interesting. That was helped along by missing trackables and the inability of many cachers to figure out how to log a trackable properly. (They have no problem getting their smileys, of course, but they can't be bothered to log TBs.) Now I never hunt after trackables unless there's a local TB contest or an old Jeep TB wanders into the area.

 

Even in my icon fever days I wouldn't go on a long hike/trip solely for a trackable, so a missing trackable at the end of a long hike wouldn't be a disappointment, as I would be there for the hike and the smiley. But would a thief bother with the long hike either?

 

Perhaps one way to cut down on trackable theft would be to not post inventories on the cache page and icons in the search listing. They are probably 25-50 percent inaccurate anyway. The trackables would still be tracked on the individual TB pages though. That'll probably never be implemented, but it's just a thought.

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A couple of observations:

 

1. If a cache maggot finds a geocache where coins are missing, wouldn't they assume someone else stole them?

 

2. If a cache maggot is not intelligent enough to realize that someone else might steal them, wouldn't they destroy / steal the cache out of frustration?

 

I don't see this as a solution to anything, but if it makes you feel better, go for it. Just, for reason #2, don't pick anyone else's cache to do it without their knowledge and permission.

Edited by Chrysalides
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How does you putting out a cache and then listing trackables as in the cache but never putting them in there fix anything? You would be adding to the problem! Explain to me how I'm going to find your cache and feel any better about not finding those trackables.
If you're a legit cacher and you find a cache and the contents don't match the inventory... oh well, you log the smilie and move on.

 

If you're a raider and you searched online and found some neat looking geocoins in a nearby cache, loaded the coords and zipped out there, you have to soak your feet in a stream, get a tad ripped up bushwhacking, pop the lid and nothing inside... you probably think twice next time you zoom out to steal geocoins.

 

I can see the potential to reduce the fun a raider has in raiding. But maybe that's just me.

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Comparing fake caches to fake coins is like comparing apples to oranges. No, it's more like comparing oranges to bananas. Both are high in potassium, so does that make them similar?

 

If there is a particular coin theif raiding caches for coins, the cachers in the area are most likely aware that the inventory is not correct and they would accept it. The coin theif knows which coins are missing because they have them. If fake coins are put out, it would most likely annoy him that the inventory is not correct beyond what he already knows.

 

I really don't see the harm in it. The OP is not doing anything extraordinary, or obsessively going out of his way about it. Laminated coins are used all the time with the real item somewhere else. When paper money was first issued, many people initially did not like that even if the bank backed it up with silver. :)

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How are you certain its a cache raider? How long since the travelers started going missing?
Example, I just got new coins, activated a couple and dropped them off in a local TB motel that had a couple TB's and a couple other coins inside. Two days later I dropped by to drop off a TB I had picked up. Looked inside and no coins, and no entries in the log book since I was there two days earlier. None of them were ever logged but the TB's and swag were untouched.

 

Then several local caches that had coins dropped off were reported as having no coins in the next log from the next cachers that found them. No logged finds between when coins were dropped and when they were reported missing. The coins were never logged out. Same thing happened for many local caches during the same time frame and unfortunately is still happening.

 

Not much doubt in my mind what happened.

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I really don't see the harm in it. The OP is not doing anything extraordinary, or obsessively going out of his way about it. Laminated coins are used all the time with the real item somewhere else. When paper money was first issued, many people initially did not like that even if the bank backed it up with silver. :)
Hmmmm... that's another twist to put in the picture. Make laminated coins and put them out but don't say in the listing that it's just a laminated copy. Legit cachers probably wouldn't be bothered by laminated copies, but raiders probably don't care to collect cardboard pogs :D
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So your whole line of thinking is that a TB/coin thief is going to hunt down a cache discover that there are no coins/TBs in it and this one single incident is going to frustrate them to the point that they... what exactly? Stop thieving?

 

"Oh drat and dismay, I have been thwarted! I now see the errors in my ways and will promptly re-route my life down the path of righteousness and good!"

 

Or perhaps they will be so completely aggravated that they will spontaneously stroke out and die on the spot?

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Hmmmm... that's another twist to put in the picture. Make laminated coins and put them out but don't say in the listing that it's just a laminated copy. Legit cachers probably wouldn't be bothered by laminated copies, but raiders probably don't care to collect cardboard pogs :)

Threads on this pop up once in a while.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=242073

 

Some don't care for them, some don't care either way.

 

As more people gets to know about geocaching, the problem with missing / stolen geocoins will only go up. It's certainly one way of thwarting theft of coins. If you're making your own, using a scanner is much easier than trying to photograph a coin. I've seen some that glue the printed coin onto a metal washer giving it heft. There's one coin I helped move, that is encased in a plastic coin holder and sealed shut. I still don't know if it is the real coin or a proxy.

Edited by Chrysalides
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So your whole line of thinking is that a TB/coin thief is going to hunt down a cache discover that there are no coins/TBs in it and this one single incident is going to frustrate them to the point that they... what exactly? Stop thieving?

 

"Oh drat and dismay, I have been thwarted! I now see the errors in my ways and will promptly re-route my life down the path of righteousness and good!"

 

Or perhaps they will be so completely aggravated that they will spontaneously stroke out and die on the spot?

One can hope. But in my opinion, best case nothing changes, worst case the thief trashes the cache. Worst case, if this is a movie, is that something snaps in the thief's mind, he turns psychopathic, and starts stalking the OP, intending to stuff the OP into many film cans and hide them under lamp posts all over the country.

 

Still, if it amuses the OP, so long as it is his own cache, I don't see any reason to dissuade him.

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I think that the OP is making the assumption that people whoremove trackables from a cache without logging the are not geocachers. This, I believe, does not logically follow. I rather believe that these'collectors' are active geocachers.

 

In some cases they are, and in some cases they are not. It is not a black and white issue, there are shades of grey, and many colors. Your area may differ from others. I noticed it on a recent cache of mine and it really irked me. Cacher reports coin is missing. I look at the page and the last finder before them placed it there. Should I run out to the site and see if there is a physical log from someone who hasn't logged online? Or should I assume someone visited the cache specifically for the coin? I initially liked caching because it consisted of a bunch of generous and trustworthy outdoorsy people. If theivery becomes common, then it really is not the same anymore. Make them work for their disappointing noncoin. :)

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How does you putting out a cache and then listing trackables as in the cache but never putting them in there fix anything? You would be adding to the problem! Explain to me how I'm going to find your cache and feel any better about not finding those trackables.
If you're a legit cacher and you find a cache and the contents don't match the inventory... oh well, you log the smilie and move on.

 

If you're a raider and you searched online and found some neat looking geocoins in a nearby cache, loaded the coords and zipped out there, you have to soak your feet in a stream, get a tad ripped up bushwhacking, pop the lid and nothing inside... you probably think twice next time you zoom out to steal geocoins.

 

I can see the potential to reduce the fun a raider has in raiding. But maybe that's just me.

Wouldn't the average cacher and the average raider both simply assume that someone snagged the object prior to their arrival? After all, your hypothetical non-geocacher traveller raider still understands that these items move about, right?
Hmmmm... that's another twist to put in the picture. Make laminated coins and put them out but don't say in the listing that it's just a laminated copy. Legit cachers probably wouldn't be bothered by laminated copies, but raiders probably don't care to collect cardboard pogs :anitongue:
Something tells me that you don't hang out in the geocoins area of the forums.
I think that the OP is making the assumption that people whoremove trackables from a cache without logging the are not geocachers. This, I believe, does not logically follow. I rather believe that these'collectors' are active geocachers.
In some cases they are, and in some cases they are not. It is not a black and white issue, there are shades of grey, and many colors. Your area may differ from others. I noticed it on a recent cache of mine and it really irked me. Cacher reports coin is missing. I look at the page and the last finder before them placed it there. Should I run out to the site and see if there is a physical log from someone who hasn't logged online? Or should I assume someone visited the cache specifically for the coin? I initially liked caching because it consisted of a bunch of generous and trustworthy outdoorsy people. If theivery becomes common, then it really is not the same anymore. Make them work for their disappointing noncoin. :laughing:
I'm betting that the geocacher/thief who found the cache decided that he likes that coin much more than he likes the smiley for that cache and will happily return at a later date to sign the log book if he wants the smiley. Edited by sbell111
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