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USGS disk not in database


LSUFan
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Howdy everyone. One of my benchmarking buddies ran across something Saturday, and asked me about it. I don't have a correct answer for him that I would be confident in, but figured ya would. All of my answers would be guesses at best.

 

He found a benchmark TT22Y below by accident, just seeing the witness post:

 

13e6ca63-9c35-4041-9a15-691955892169.jpg

 

When he went to look it up in the database, it's not there (or if it is, we can't seem to locate it), however DL0254/TT21Y about 3 miles down the road is.

 

I was just guessing that they placed TT22Y at the same time as TT21Y, but just didn't catalog it, or it has been omitted from the database due to a erroneous destroyed report (or similar). I do note that the disk also says "cooperation with the state", so an Arkansas agency may have been responsible for it all.

 

Is this something ya see (or have seen) with other USGS disks? I know there are lots of benchmarks that are not in the NGS database, but I figured most of the actual USGS stamped disks would be. Can you help further our benchmark education? Thanks

 

fd526302-f3ee-41e7-8a85-46fe28a7db3c.jpg

Edited by LSUFan
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Is this something ya see (or have seen) with other USGS disks? I know there are lots of benchmarks that are not in the USGS database, but I figured most of the actual USGS stamped disks would be. Can you help further our benchmark education? Thanks

I am wondering if you might have inadvertently mixed up your databases?

 

There is no online access to the USGS database. The database we all know and love is the NGS (or, at one time, USC&GS) database. There are many, many USGS disks that are not in the NGS database.

Edited by TillaMurphs
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Is this something ya see (or have seen) with other USGS disks? I know there are lots of benchmarks that are not in the USGS database, but I figured most of the actual USGS stamped disks would be. Can you help further our benchmark education? Thanks

I am wondering if you might have inadvertently mixed up your databases?

 

There is no online access to the USGS database. The database we all know and love is the NGS (or, at one time, USC&GS) database. There are many, many USGS disks that are not in the NGS database.

 

Yes, I did mix it up and edited the post, but not before you caught me. :anibad:

 

I did not know that there were a lot of USGS disks not in the NGS database. That's why I always ask the experts here.

Edited by LSUFan
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I did not know that there were a lot of USGS disks not in the NGS database. That's why I always ask the experts here.

I always thought that *most* USGS disks weren't in the NGS database. I think that of anyone, Holograph would have a number of USGS's that WERE in the NGS database, but not sure if he'd know the percentage. :anibad:

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90 of our total finds are USGS benchmarks, 2 did not finds. That is for all counties we have benchmark hunted in.

 

In the remaining unrecovered 1400 benchmarks in Coconino County, 319 were placed by the USGS. Now, some of those benchmarks might not be disks but, MARKER: Z = SEE DESCRIPTION. Most times those are more fun, if you can find them. :laughing:

 

Shirley~

 

PS: I only checked Coconino Co. for the USGS marks, that leaves Apache, Beaver, Clark, Cochise, Esmeralda, Eureka, Garfield, Gila, Graham, Greenlee, Iron, Kane, LaPaz, Lincoln, Millard, Mohave, Navajo, Nye, Pima, Pinal, Piute, San Bernardino, San Jaun, Santa Cruz, Sevier, Washington, Yavapai, Yuma - All are Counties that we have databases on and oh, one that seems to be missing that we once had, Maricopa. And I do not have that kind of time to check on all of those..... :anibad:

Edited by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)
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It looks to me like from the surrounding bench marks that in this case, a C&GS party was running a level line in 1960, happened across the USGS mark and leveled to it as they were going by, either to save themselves setting a monument or as a courtesy to provide and updated elevation to the USGS.

 

Last summer I recovered parts of at least two different USGS level lines in northern AZ that were added to the NGS database in their entirety at the time they were set. In Mohave County, see for example GQ0435 88 DOR as an example and in Apache County an example is ER0592 100 BKC.

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It can also be fun to specifically look for those marks not in the NGS database. The mark you photo'd shows up on topo maps. See if this link works for you: MyTopo. At least I think that's your mark. You can't necessarily log them on geocaching.com, but you could always make a waymark for it.

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It looks to me like from the surrounding bench marks that in this case, a C&GS party was running a level line in 1960, happened across the USGS mark and leveled to it as they were going by, either to save themselves setting a monument or as a courtesy to provide and updated elevation to the USGS.

 

Last summer I recovered parts of at least two different USGS level lines in northern AZ that were added to the NGS database in their entirety at the time they were set. In Mohave County, see for example GQ0435 88 DOR as an example and in Apache County an example is ER0592 100 BKC.

 

When NGS begins a project they research any available data that might be useful for their project. They will go out and recover and reuse marks of other org's if it fits into their project scope. For instance if USGS marks are found close to the line they are following they will use them but often will not go out of their way to find them. They have a certain goal in the project and don't spend needless time recovering marks that are of little value to them.

 

Most all of the USGS marks were set to aide in making of maps. They set them so as to be able to come back in future years and be able to match up with the prior work. They was not effort by USGS to place this info into a database, mostly I suspect because of the nature of the work done and the unlikelyhood it could ever be recovered. 95% of the USGS work in my area is gone due to cultural improvements, new roads etc. Also, now even USGS admits a lot of the work was of poor quality in some areas they say is does not even meet 3 rd spec's.

Edited by Z15
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