Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 9
Andronicus

GCzII is now Approved!

Recommended Posts

GCzII has not worked for me since the update that was performed today on the web site. Can anyone else verify that GCzII is down?

Share this post


Link to post

Yes.. Its not working properly. I have download caches but get an error when I try to view one. Wait a few days or so and an update will be available.

 

GCzII has not worked for me since the update that was performed today on the web site. Can anyone else verify that GCzII is down?

Share this post


Link to post

Applications that scrape web sites tend to break when the web sites they scrape are updated.

 

For the record, you agreed to the Geocaching.com Site Terms of Use Agreement:

5. Access and Interference

Much of the information on the Site is updated on a real time basis and is proprietary or is licensed to Groundspeak by our users or third parties. You agree that you will not use any robot, spider, scraper or other automated means to access the Site for any purpose without our express written permission. Additionally, you agree that you will not: (a) take any action that imposes, or may impose in our sole discretion an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure; or (:laughing: interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of the Site or any activities conducted on the Site or other measures we may use to prevent or restrict access to the Site.

Share this post


Link to post

I understand about the EULA. It is unfortunate that Groundspeak won't allow GCzII to access live. They need to just approve it. Work it so I pay the same as iPhone app if it is about money. I have already paid for premium membership,I will not pay the fee for trimble

Share this post


Link to post

Seems to me that the best way for everybody to win here is to make it so it only works if you are a premium member. I'd gladly do so. It just seems strange that this is by far the best app I've seen, and there's such a struggle to keep it working. I'll pay for an app, but I won't pay if it doesn't work as well, and I wont pay monthly for something that I may not even use every month. Why is it free to become a member in the first place if this is such an issue?

Share this post


Link to post

I'll pay for an app

So do I, but I'm not willing to change my HD2 with an IPhone or Android device to keep geocaching. If Groundspeak is not going to approve GCz or to release an equivalent software, I'll not pay for the premium membership for another year. :blink:

Best regards

Peter

Share this post


Link to post

Seems to me that the best way for everybody to win here is to make it so it only works if you are a premium member. I'd gladly do so. It just seems strange that this is by far the best app I've seen, and there's such a struggle to keep it working. I'll pay for an app, but I won't pay if it doesn't work as well, and I wont pay monthly for something that I may not even use every month. Why is it free to become a member in the first place if this is such an issue?

 

It does not matter if your a basic member or a premium member site scrapping is still a no-no. This app only works because it scraps the site and any change to the site will break the app because it can no longer scrape until the author fixes the problem. This is the basic and glaring flaw in this program. It is unfortunate that the author does not stress in the documentation that the use of the program violates what you agreed to and it will frequently break.

Share this post


Link to post

Talking about how it works, ie scraping the site, totally misses the point. Same goes for the TOU. The point is that product works better than anything else offered and they seem to have no interest in providing an alternative. If they have no interest in providing their own competing product, and the existing product encourages traffic to the site, why have a TOU that hinders that? Why not either provide a Win Mo version of the iPhone app, or work with a third party that provides something that actually works well already and find a way that everyone wins, ie only make it work for premium members. Otherwise what is the TOU protecting? The app doesn't steal business from the site, and the site doesn't seem interested in persuing it themselves. Making this more difficult to use seems to be upseting more people that enjoy the site more than anything else. So where is the benefit to doing so?

Share this post


Link to post

Talking about how it works, ie scraping the site, totally misses the point. Same goes for the TOU. The point is that product works better than anything else offered and they seem to have no interest in providing an alternative. If they have no interest in providing their own competing product, and the existing product encourages traffic to the site, why have a TOU that hinders that? Why not either provide a Win Mo version of the iPhone app, or work with a third party that provides something that actually works well already and find a way that everyone wins, ie only make it work for premium members. Otherwise what is the TOU protecting? The app doesn't steal business from the site, and the site doesn't seem interested in persuing it themselves. Making this more difficult to use seems to be upseting more people that enjoy the site more than anything else. So where is the benefit to doing so?

 

[arms in air, head wagging]

Amen, brother swright!

[looks around at congregation]

Can I get an amen, people?

Share this post


Link to post

Talking about how it works, ie scraping the site, totally misses the point. Same goes for the TOU. The point is that product works better than anything else offered and they seem to have no interest in providing an alternative. If they have no interest in providing their own competing product, and the existing product encourages traffic to the site, why have a TOU that hinders that? Why not either provide a Win Mo version of the iPhone app, or work with a third party that provides something that actually works well already and find a way that everyone wins, ie only make it work for premium members. Otherwise what is the TOU protecting? The app doesn't steal business from the site, and the site doesn't seem interested in persuing it themselves. Making this more difficult to use seems to be upseting more people that enjoy the site more than anything else. So where is the benefit to doing so?

 

This statement assumes at least two things.

 

1. When did Groundspeak state they had "no interest in providing their own competing product"? Although they haven't come out with one or made it a top priority like the iPhone app or the Droid app they've stated is their focus, it doesn't mean they're not interested. They've allowed discussion of GCzII more than other apps that violate the TOU, so they must at least recognize its potential value.

 

2. "The app doesn't steal business from the site." This is highly debatable. Some will still become premium members, but others have already noted that they see no reason to do so or support gc.com if they can get most of the same benefits for free. That does cost Groundspeak and they are a business.

 

The success of third-party apps occurs when those involved can agree. It may or may not happen with GCzII (for your sake and others, I sincerely hope it does) in the timeframes you desire.

 

In the meantime, there are other options. Instead of tellling Groundspeak to stop being stubborn, can't that work both ways? Sigh...I know it's hard to be patient, but it seems to devolve quickly into unnecessary demands and threats.

Share this post


Link to post

I realize you didn't use the word "stubborn" in describing Groundspeak. I was referring to what I perceive to be the attitude toward TPTB of GCzII users currently unable to use the app. I hope I'm wrong.

Share this post


Link to post

I've been using GCzII on my Touch Pro 2 and i just got a membership to support but now the site updated and now i can't use it anymore (sigh) guess i have to wait for a update

Share this post


Link to post

I've been using GCzII on my Touch Pro 2 and i just got a membership to support but now the site updated and now i can't use it anymore (sigh) guess i have to wait for a update

It's updated and working again. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post

It's updated and working again. ;)

 

Although there were two updates this weekend, It still doesn't work - trying to load one of the caches in the list I get "cache not found". :rolleyes:

 

Peter

Share this post


Link to post

It's updated and working again. :mad:

 

Although there were two updates this weekend, It still doesn't work - trying to load one of the caches in the list I get "cache not found". :blink:

 

Peter

This realy isn't the forum to complain about bugs in 3rd party software.

 

Anyway, as for violating the TOS, it depends on how you interpret the wording. Since GCzII isn't automated, IMO, it doesn't violate the TOS. Of course, GS doesn't aggree with me.

Edited by Andronicus

Share this post


Link to post

Although there were two updates this weekend, It still doesn't work - trying to load one of the caches in the list I get "cache not found". :blink:

I don't know what to tell you. Try a different cache from a different set and see if your just stuck on a particular cache or if it's all of them.

 

I'm running version v. 0.2.35.45 and I just checked and it appears to be working for me. Also the thread on XDA developers has several people reporting testing via actual use over the weekend and they are saying it's working as well.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm running version v. 0.2.35.45 and I just checked and it appears to be working for me. Also the thread on XDA developers has several people reporting testing via actual use over the weekend and they are saying it's working as well.

 

Thanks for your post - but it doesn't work. I'm using the same version 0.2.35.45 an tried several caches - nuff: Cache not found.

Perhaps the problem is that I'm located in Germany - but that's hard to believe...

 

Greets

Peter

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps the problem is that I'm located in Germany - but that's hard to believe...

Sorry Peter, I can't help with that. :unsure:

 

I hope you figure it out. Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling? Is your internet working in other apps? Is it coming back with the list and then telling you the cache can't be found when you try to get detail?

 

Last week when mine wasn't working it wouldn't even give me the list.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm running version v. 0.2.35.45 and I just checked and it appears to be working for me. Also the thread on XDA developers has several people reporting testing via actual use over the weekend and they are saying it's working as well.

 

Thanks for your post - but it doesn't work. I'm using the same version 0.2.35.45 an tried several caches - nuff: Cache not found.

Perhaps the problem is that I'm located in Germany - but that's hard to believe...

 

Greets

Peter

Here is your solution

 

http://gczii.newstarforum.com/faq-and-help...setting-t34.htm

Edited by Andronicus

Share this post


Link to post

:)Am I missing something here? I thought Geocaching was supposed to be a bit of fun - an excuse to get out and visit places you might ordinarily drive straight past? I'm pretty sure geocaching didn't start out as a business (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

My wife and I use GCzII (when it's not out of action due to another update) and that is what got us into the sport in the first place. I'm sure we aren't the only ones who, on a nice weekend, have ventured out for a days caching - only to be greeted with the groan inducing 'cache not found' message. Come on guys - SORT IT OUT!! We use Windows mobile and GCzII is head and shoulders above anything else we've tried. If you are trying to kill the sport, you are doing a pretty good job.

 

Either find a way of embracing GCzII or provide us with a valid and equally excellent bit of software - before you alienate the people that make geocaching the fun sport that it is. Where would the sport be without Joe Public getting out there and putting out caches? Do we ask for any reward for doing that? No, of course not! There wouldn't BE any geocaching without Joe Public. Think about that. For some reason I had it in my head that geocaching was a community - NOT a business. But, like everything in life, if there's money to be made.... If this IS a business, then someone PLEASE step up to the plate and put an end to all this political nonsense.

 

We have paid to be Premium Members, so there's your income from us - now GIVE US WHAT WE WANT!

 

SORT IT OUT!

 

:laughing:

Edited by SG1-UK

Share this post


Link to post

:)Am I missing something here? I thought Geocaching was supposed to be a bit of fun - an excuse to get out and visit places you might ordinarily drive straight past? I'm pretty sure geocaching didn't start out as a business (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

My wife and I use GCzII (when it's not out of action due to another update) and that is what got us into the sport in the first place. I'm sure we aren't the only ones who, on a nice weekend, have ventured out for a days caching - only to be greeted with the groan inducing 'cache not found' message. Come on guys - SORT IT OUT!! We use Windows mobile and GCzII is head and shoulders above anything else we've tried. If you are trying to kill the sport, you are doing a pretty good job.

 

Either find a way of embracing GCzII or provide us with a valid and equally excellent bit of software - before you alienate the people that make geocaching the fun sport that it is. Where would the sport be without Joe Public getting out there and putting out caches? Do we ask for any reward for doing that? No, of course not! There wouldn't BE any geocaching without Joe Public. Think about that. For some reason I had it in my head that geocaching was a community - NOT a business. But, like everything in life, if there's money to be made.... If this IS a business, then someone PLEASE step up to the plate and put an end to all this political nonsense.

 

We have paid to be Premium Members, so there's your income from us - now GIVE US WHAT WE WANT!

 

SORT IT OUT!

 

:laughing:

 

I fail to see why you are ranting about Groundspeak. The one you should be angry at is the author of the software your using that has a serious and major design flaw. I realize he did not tell you that it scraps the site in violation of the terms of use and would break if the site made slight changes. If he designed the software without this major design flaw you would not be having this problem. I think it is totally unacceptable and unrealistic to expect the site to never change the layout or make improvements for fear of breaking your software. I've been through many site changes without the slightest hickup. As the site continues to make changes to adapt a mulit-lingual capability I expect you will continue to be upset with the author of your software.

Share this post


Link to post

:)Am I missing something here? I thought Geocaching was supposed to be a bit of fun - an excuse to get out and visit places you might ordinarily drive straight past? I'm pretty sure geocaching didn't start out as a business (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

My wife and I use GCzII (when it's not out of action due to another update) and that is what got us into the sport in the first place. I'm sure we aren't the only ones who, on a nice weekend, have ventured out for a days caching - only to be greeted with the groan inducing 'cache not found' message. Come on guys - SORT IT OUT!! We use Windows mobile and GCzII is head and shoulders above anything else we've tried. If you are trying to kill the sport, you are doing a pretty good job.

 

Either find a way of embracing GCzII or provide us with a valid and equally excellent bit of software - before you alienate the people that make geocaching the fun sport that it is. Where would the sport be without Joe Public getting out there and putting out caches? Do we ask for any reward for doing that? No, of course not! There wouldn't BE any geocaching without Joe Public. Think about that. For some reason I had it in my head that geocaching was a community - NOT a business. But, like everything in life, if there's money to be made.... If this IS a business, then someone PLEASE step up to the plate and put an end to all this political nonsense.

 

We have paid to be Premium Members, so there's your income from us - now GIVE US WHAT WE WANT!

 

SORT IT OUT!

 

:laughing:

 

I fail to see why you are ranting about Groundspeak. The one you should be angry at is the author of the software your using that has a serious and major design flaw. I realize he did not tell you that it scraps the site in violation of the terms of use and would break if the site made slight changes. If he designed the software without this major design flaw you would not be having this problem. I think it is totally unacceptable and unrealistic to expect the site to never change the layout or make improvements for fear of breaking your software. I've been through many site changes without the slightest hickup. As the site continues to make changes to adapt a mulit-lingual capability I expect you will continue to be upset with the author of your software.

 

Agree with jholly.

 

To respond to your query, Groundspeak is a business, the leading business in the geocaching community, so in that respect geocaching is business related. Groundspeak is working on an app, obviously not fast enough for you. However, they do the work of listing/organizing and GCzII scrapes (aka steals) that information from the database. That's just wrong. Until the official app (or an agreement between Groundspeak and GCzII is reached), demanding "SORT IT OUT" is unlikely to help. As long as GCzII continues to break the TOU, expect its program's usability to be inconsistent at best.

 

If you don't wish to wait, you have the option of getting another device to enjoy the fun of caching. I hope something works out soon, but I don't think 3rd party apps that Groundspeak doesn't oversee are the way to go.

Share this post


Link to post

Well we look forward to groundspeaks app. Do you know if it will be available on Windows mobile devices? As long as it's on a par with GCzII. or even somewhere close, it will be worth the wait.

 

I think it is totally unacceptable and unrealistic to expect the site to never change the layout or make improvements for fear of breaking your software. I've been through many site changes without the slightest hickup.

 

Wow! Easy tiger! No one, least of all me, suggested that the site shouldn't update.

 

To respond to your query, Groundspeak is a business, the leading business in the geocaching community, so in that respect geocaching is business related. Groundspeak is working on an app, obviously not fast enough for you. However, they do the work of listing/organizing and GCzII scrapes (aka steals) that information from the database. That's just wrong. Until the official app (or an agreement between Groundspeak and GCzII is reached), demanding "SORT IT OUT" is unlikely to help. As long as GCzII continues to break the TOU, expect its program's usability to be inconsistent at best.

 

All fair points. I was just implying that I thought Geocaching was a sport which involves people hiding caches for others to find, therefore more of a community than a business. Of course all the wonderful work done by Groundspeak has to be paid for, hence the fee to become a premium member, which we were more than happy to pay.

 

If you can tell me of a suitable program I can use on my Windows mobile device in the mean time (which is as good as GCzII), then please let me know.

Share this post


Link to post

If you can tell me of a suitable program I can use on my Windows mobile device in the mean time (which is as good as GCzII), then please let me know.

 

There is Trimble Navigator...

 

I don't think it's nearly as good, it's commercial, and it runs on a very limited number of carriers - but if the stars line up for you, then it might work out.

 

I'll keep using GCzII myself.

Share this post


Link to post

There is Trimble Navigator...

 

I don't think it's nearly as good, it's commercial, and it runs on a very limited number of carriers - but if the stars line up for you, then it might work out.

 

I'll keep using GCzII myself.

 

The problem with Trimble is theres a monthly fee associated with it. I would pay for an app, but not a monthly fee. I don't have time to cache every month, in April I found almost 150 caches, in May, hardly any.

Share this post


Link to post

There is nothing anywhere near as good as GCzII on any phone or hand held device under any operating system, droid, blackbarry, iphone, palm or windows mobile. How does that happen? I think GCzII is even better than using GCC on a PC.

 

I've been waiting years for GCC to provide such an app and would pay a premium on top of my premium membership to get it. Until GCC provides something and as long as GCzII works I'm going to use it.

Share this post


Link to post

If you can tell me of a suitable program I can use on my Windows mobile device in the mean time (which is as good as GCzII), then please let me know.

 

There is Trimble Navigator...

 

I don't think it's nearly as good, it's commercial, and it runs on a very limited number of carriers - but if the stars line up for you, then it might work out.

 

I'll keep using GCzII myself.

 

There's a WINDOWS MOBILE version of Trimble Navigator? I thought that was just for Blackberries (which is still toss out your phone, break your cell contract and shell out for another device, just for one app to a current Windows Mobile user)

Share this post


Link to post

More than a handful of the supported handsets are WM/Wince-based. And iPhone. And even the Nexus One. A lot more than just Crackberry!

 

If you can tell me of a suitable program I can use on my Windows mobile device in the mean time (which is as good as GCzII), then please let me know.

 

There is Trimble Navigator...

 

I don't think it's nearly as good, it's commercial, and it runs on a very limited number of carriers - but if the stars line up for you, then it might work out.

 

I'll keep using GCzII myself.

 

There's a WINDOWS MOBILE version of Trimble Navigator? I thought that was just for Blackberries (which is still toss out your phone, break your cell contract and shell out for another device, just for one app to a current Windows Mobile user)

Edited by Adrenalynn

Share this post


Link to post

More than a handful of the supported handsets are WM/Wince-based. And iPhone. And even the Nexus One. A lot more than just Crackberry!

I'm not seeing the geocache navigator application supported any droid or windows mobile phones. I didn't look up every single supported phone but I didn't recognize any in a quick look. http://www.geocachenavigator.com/

 

The funny thing is if you supported it on one Windows Mobile or one Droid it would work on nearly all of that device.

 

Plus it's $6 a month. Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous to charge more for the app to access the data than the provider of the data does to access it?

Share this post


Link to post

Looks like I got tricked by going to the geocachenavigator site and then looking at the supported phones and carriers. Seems they list the phones that their OTHER apps are supported on. I didn't go through all the phones either. Glad I didn't try to buy it for my phone, I'd have been annoyed.

 

When I was using it, it was on a dumb Nokia. Must be running Java mobile profile, surely it was on my handset. Which means that with a bit of monkeying with it, it would likely run on Windows or Android, but hardly worth it with GCzII running so well.

 

Incidentally, I hardly see the $6/mo as excessive. Paying $60-70 for a software license is not uncommon, and given that they're having to make a business case for it whilst still giving GC their pound of flesh, it's probably pretty reasonable.

Share this post


Link to post

Incidentally, I hardly see the $6/mo as excessive. Paying $60-70 for a software license is not uncommon, and given that they're having to make a business case for it whilst still giving GC their pound of flesh, it's probably pretty reasonable.

Paying $60-70 for a mobile app is very uncommon. Plus it's not $60-70, it's $6 a month. Most of us have been doing and plan to do this for more than a year. My caching has been supplemented by a mobile device since I started in 2004.

 

That doesn't even cover the fact that GZcII blows the trimble app out of the water with features and functionality.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, there is the option of your licensing the database from Groundspeak and developing your own competing app. I suspect it will cost a wee bit more than $6/mo for that license, and with 30 years of software and embedded firmware development behind me, I _know_ your development costs will exceed that. So you might want to recuperate those costs by offering it for sale. So now you need to build the infrastructure to support it.

 

$6 < many hundreds of thousands of dollars - so I'm good with it.

 

Or there is the questionable GCzII which is a really nice app breaking the TOS. When it works, awesome. But I can't expect more from it than that, or even its long-term-ness. Or he could license the database from Groundspeak - and now you're back into that $6/mo [or more].

 

It really is a catch-22.

 

 

Paying $60-70 for a mobile app is very uncommon. Plus it's not $60-70, it's $6 a month. Most of us have been doing and plan to do this for more than a year. My caching has been supplemented by a mobile device since I started in 2004.

 

That doesn't even cover the fact that GZcII blows the trimble app out of the water with features and functionality.

Share this post


Link to post

 

$6 < many hundreds of thousands of dollars - so I'm good with it.

 

 

Well, let's be more accurate than $6/month. (vs say the iPhone app which is $10/lifetime).

I've been caching for 7 years.

 

7 years x 12 months x $6/month =$504 (that I would have spent so far)

Garmin Oregon 400t with USA Topo Maps at GPSCity.ca: $439.95

 

iPhone 3Gs on 3 Year contract at Telus Mobility - for someone who heard about geocaching yesterday and wants to try it out tomorrow: $149 (+$10 for lifetime use of geocaching app = $159)

iPhone 3Gs on 3 year contract for Windows Mobile device owners who already have a 3 Year contract: $799

(oh +$10 for lifetime use of Geocaching app too, make that $819)

 

Essentially, Trimble Navigator is priced right to *try out* Geocaching but you'll pay for a full blown high end Garmin GPS which is far more capable of handling outdoor conditions if you are a member long enough. An upper cap would go a long way. $6/month isn't a big deal if it stops at $70. The current pricing is more a license to print money.

 

What I would prolly do is use the Trimble app (if they had a WinMo version), until my contract expires then switch to iPhone. Three weeks later Groundspeak would announce EOL for the iPhone app and announce the Android one so I'd be back to Trimble for 3 years while I wait out the typical mobile contract term for a Canadian .... (knowing my luck anyway).

Share this post


Link to post

>> pay for a full blown high end Garmin GPS which is far more capable of handling outdoor conditions

 

But entirely incapable of performing the tasks of the Trimble. ;)

Share this post


Link to post

>> pay for a full blown high end Garmin GPS which is far more capable of handling outdoor conditions

 

But entirely incapable of performing the tasks of the Trimble. :huh:

 

I take exception to that statement -- what tasks? Yes, it has the advantage of using a live data connection. This can be a hinderance too. GCzII can be loaded with Pocket Queries, as can my Colorado. Neither have a monthly fee.

 

Since it can't do live data updates (no cellular radio), I have to preload my Colorado (ok I can get live data if I use my Windows Phone to download a PQ to the memory card I suppose). I toss 2,000 caches at it and that rarely doesn't cover the area I'm caching in.

 

The Colorado has field notes, like the Trimble - except I can actually add notes to the field notes. I find it hilarious that Trimble has not added the ability to add text to the Field Notes function on a full QWERTY device yet I can add notes with the Click-Wheel on my Colorado.

 

I loaded up Trimble on my Blackberry Tour 9630 after using my Colorado and GCzII. When my 7 day trial ended, I didn't choose to fund that application - mainly due to the simplistic implementation and the fact that the iPhone geocaching app is $10 for life. I would happily give Groundspeak $10 for an official GCzII app. I'm not bloody likely to pay $6/month for GCzII when I already have PQs+GPS.

 

--

 

But, I'm also not the target market for Trimble. I cache in the rain and in the snow. I dumped out of a canoe twice today on a series of challenging paddle caches. My Blackberry survived because I wasn't using it for navigation - it was locked in a Pelican case. My Colorado that was around my neck kept on working. To use Trimble in that environment I need to lock the screen "on" and leave GPS running. I would need the "Marine Battery accessory for Tour" if I used it like that for more than 5 minutes.

 

I mainly use an application like GCzII at the actual cache for managing trackables and recording information about the actualy hunt. "Mark as found" is useless to me, I need a note like "Dumped out of canoe" to remind me where I was and what I was doing. Posting a note immediately with a trackable drop is great vs remembering which of the 10 caches I left the geocoin at. Does Trimble let me do that?

Share this post


Link to post

 

I take exception to that statement -- what tasks?

 

Yes, it has the advantage of using a live data connection. [...]

 

Since it can't do live data updates (no cellular radio), I have to preload my Colorado [...]

 

But, I'm also not the target market for Trimble.

 

 

I'm not sure how you can "take exception", then ask "what tasks", then go on to list its claim-to-fame capability as being something you can't inherently do on the Colorado. You've taken exception then answered your own question, proving the truth-table behind my statement.

 

You then go on to note that you're not the target market for the Trimble product because it's not rugged enough, in that it runs on your cell phone, but do so as a defense of GCzII (which, incidentally, I happen to like a lot) that is... Running on your cell phone, which, unless GCzII comes with a water-proof, shock resistant case that I didn't receive when I downloaded it, hasn't adequately effected the ruggedness of the cellphone.

 

Frankly, I don't find the Colorado rugged enough for my backwoods caching either. Fine in the same environs I'd use my cell phone in, but the 60Cx (and soon the 62C) are more to my preference. I'd trust the Colorado more than my WinMo smartphone in the rain, but not repelling off of cliffs and traversing fast-flowing waters. And when it comes to actually extracting myself from those environs - I wouldn't trust _anything_ that had a battery or MCU anyway. That's what the Cammenga Tritium (and the backup Silva) is for.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 9

×