Cache Insurance

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

In another thread NeecesandNephews made a comment that struck me, though in the opposite way that it was intended...

 

I thought for a minute there he was going to try and sell me cache insurance.... no ... wait a sec... never mind!!!

Cache insurance... Cool!

 

Maybe cache owners pay $1. per year per cache and if their insured cache goes missing they get $100. to replace it.

 

I think the vast majority of cachers are honest enough to make that work. While some would try to rip-off the system I think the vast majority of cachers would be honest with lost cache reports.

 

I know zilch about how to run an insurance business but I bet that there are some of you cachers out there who do.

 

Groundspeak might find this to be a profitable revenue stream which might increase quality hides since cachers would be more willing to hide nice caches if they knew that they would be compensated for a loss.

 

I suppose the rate of cache loss vs. cache placements vs. the number of cache insurance policies purchased would be the first statistic that would have to be discovered to determine if this is viable, but my speculation is that as a percentage not all that many caches go missing.

 

What say ye, is this too hare-brained to work?

[NeecesandNephews]

hahaha DragonsWest posted that Salamander to lighten up the thread and when I saw it I just automatically thought of the Gecko. Guess their dollars were well spent on that ad campaign!!!

 

The need for cache insurance sure did seem like it belonged in that thread!!!

 

 

Seems like you can insure almost anything for a price!! Might just work!!!

[+tozainamboku]

I would think the real market would be insuring cache seekers against a DNF. For a small fee cache owners would sell finder's insurance. If you DNF the cache the policy would pay out by allowing you to log "Found It" anyhow.

[+StarBrand]

Wow - only 4 of my caches ever had as much as $100 between box, camo, contents.

 

But I suppose you could logically add in gas and the time to get out to replace it.

 

 

 

On the flip side - I could just picture a room full of geeks trying to assess the relative "risk" associated with a new cache's hide style and location.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Generally, you wouldn't get insurance on something unless it had an actual value. I would guess that the majority of caches out there don't real have any real value. That's not to say that you didn't work really hard to put it together and drop it in the woods, but sentimental value is often very different than an items real value (take a sock hand-knitted from your grandmother to a pawn shop to witness this in action)

 

In your example, you said $100 to replace a cache. Apparently your caches are amazing. I haven't seen all that many, but of the 400 or so caches i've seen, maybe 1 of them was worth over $100. Most caches are probably in the $2-$5 range. Also, if you spent $50 on the stuff inside, that shouldn't be included in the value, because you are fully expecting those items to be taken (and replaced with equal value, YEAH RIGHT!)...

 

So, how much would you pay to insure a $5 cache? And what company in their right mind would make any money doing it?

[NeecesandNephews]

I would think the real market would be insuring cache seekers against a DNF. For a small fee cache owners would sell finder's insurance. If you DNF the cache the policy would pay out by allowing you to log "Found It" anyhow.

 

 

Or the "immediate claims response vehicle" would show up to escort you personally to the cache to point it out to you!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

And what company in their right mind would make any money doing it?

Any company that believed that they would take in more money on cache policies sold than they would pay out in lost cache claims!

 

Your Homeowner's insurance likely covers things like the sunglasses stolen from the dash of your car. They know that they will earn more from the sales of policies that cover things like that than they will ever have to pay out, so it's very profitable to cover your sunglasses.

 

In fact the question arises... geocaches are personal property and may well be covered under your existing Homeowner's insurance. Not that you would want to file such a trivial claim against Homeowners insurance, but they're probably covered if you did.

Edited February 24, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[NeecesandNephews]

Wow!!! Only five posts to go off in the ditch!!! Unbelievable!! I'm going caching, I will look in on this later!! You guys carry on!!

[+ReadyOrNot]

And what company in their right mind would make any money doing it?

Any company that believed that they would take in more money on cache policies sold than they would pay out in lost cache claims!

 

Your Homeowner's insurance likely covers things like the sunglasses stolen from the dash of your car. They know that they will earn more from the sales of policies that cover things like that than they will ever have to pay out, so it's very profitable to cover your sunglasses.

 

In fact the question arises... geocaches are personal property and may well be covered under your existing Homeowner's insurance. Not that you would want to file such a trivial claim against Homeowners insurance, but they're probably covered if you did.

 

I'm not sure homeowners would cover an item that's not on the property

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I'm not sure homeowners would cover an item that's not on the property

Mine does; I used that example because I was paid for a claim (less my $100 deductible) when my $500 glasses were stolen from the dash of my convertible while on vacation in Florida.

 

I can't see where a geocache would be much different.

[+WHO-DEY]

the best insurance is to place the cache in a beehive, the middle of the woods, surrounded by water and poison oak or poison ivy, and make it a ridiculous puzzle/challenge cache.

[+GeoGeeBee]

I'm not sure homeowners would cover an item that's not on the property

Mine does; I used that example because I was paid for a claim (less my $100 deductible) when my $500 glasses were stolen from the dash of my convertible while on vacation in Florida.

 

I can't see where a geocache would be much different.

 

I suppose it would work if 1) you could document that the value of the cache is more than the deductible of your homeowner's insurance, and 2) it gets stolen from the dash of your convertible.

 

But if you leave it out in a park somewhere, I don't think your homeowner's insurance is going to cover it.

[+pppingme]

Maybe cache owners pay $1. per year per cache and if their insured cache goes missing they get $100. to replace it.

A quick analysis shows that a $1 premium wouldn't even come close to supporting a $100 payout.

 

Think about this:

 

If 100 caches are "insured" then there is $100 revenue, now, over the span of a year, if even ONE of those caches comes up missing, thats a payout, if a second goes missing, the insurance company is now broke.

 

If you pick 100 caches (even set high standards, like last 3 or 4 logs must be finds with no dnfs in the mix), and monitor those for a year, you will find that at least 20 will come up missing.

 

Here is a quick stat, for every 2 caches that get "approved", one is archived. There are currently 900k active caches yet 1.6 million gc codes have been handed out.

 

It would take a premium of over $25/year, probably around $35 to $40 to support a $100 payout, just for the "insurance company" to break even.

 

Even assuming it could be done for $25/year (which it really can't), I just don't see most CO's willing to pay that much.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I'm not sure homeowners would cover an item that's not on the property

Mine does; I used that example because I was paid for a claim (less my $100 deductible) when my $500 glasses were stolen from the dash of my convertible while on vacation in Florida.

 

I can't see where a geocache would be much different.

Haha, Glad you got the claim, but I'm surprised they didn't cancel your policy(considering that you were so careless as to leave a $500 item so accessible...Mostly Ribbing, so don't be offended)

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Maybe cache owners pay $1. per year per cache and if their insured cache goes missing they get $100. to replace it.

A quick analysis shows that a $1 premium wouldn't even come close to supporting a $100 payout.

 

Think about this:

 

If 100 caches are "insured" then there is $100 revenue, now, over the span of a year, if even ONE of those caches comes up missing, thats a payout, if a second goes missing, the insurance company is now broke.

 

If you pick 100 caches (even set high standards, like last 3 or 4 logs must be finds with no dnfs in the mix), and monitor those for a year, you will find that at least 20 will come up missing.

 

Here is a quick stat, for every 2 caches that get "approved", one is archived. There are currently 900k active caches yet 1.6 million gc codes have been handed out.

 

It would take a premium of over $25/year, probably around $35 to $40 to support a $100 payout, just for the "insurance company" to break even.

 

Even assuming it could be done for $25/year (which it really can't), I just don't see most CO's willing to pay that much.

So maybe a $100 claim is a silly figure, I'm really asking about the concept, not the details.

 

The whole concept may be silly, but we won't know until we look at it.

 

I'm not sure the value of the cache would have to be involved... maybe pay $1/yr to insure any cache and get, what, maybe $20. if it is taken.

 

If the idea has any merit whatsoever the cost of a cache policy and payout will be determined by the statistics.

 

The number of caches archived has no relation to the number that disappear, those active caches that go missing are what my idea concerns.

 

Actuaries, statisticians or folks who know the actual details of how insurance works will be the ones with the answers I seek... as in most threads we all have opinions, and you know what most of those are worth!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

My opinion is that there would be no way to make it cost effective for the Insured. There are so many uncontrollable variables that it would have to be too expensive. The only way I could see it working would be to have a schedule of payouts for each variable.

 

Fire = $XX

Flood = $XX

Theft = $XX(divided by age)

 

Haha.

[+thedeadpirate]

Wow!!! Only five posts to go off in the ditch!!! Unbelievable!! I'm going caching, I will look in on this later!! You guys carry on!!

 

It was in the ditch on the first post. I assure you that TAR doesn't seriously think anyone will be selling cache insurance. Think of it as a way of lightening the mood around here.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Wow!!! Only five posts to go off in the ditch!!! Unbelievable!! I'm going caching, I will look in on this later!! You guys carry on!!

 

It was in the ditch on the first post. I assure you that TAR doesn't seriously think anyone will be selling cache insurance. Think of it as a way of lightening the mood around here.

Busted!

[NeecesandNephews]

Wow!!! Only five posts to go off in the ditch!!! Unbelievable!! I'm going caching, I will look in on this later!! You guys carry on!!

 

It was in the ditch on the first post. I assure you that TAR doesn't seriously think anyone will be selling cache insurance. Think of it as a way of lightening the mood around here.

Busted!

 

My point exactly!!! Thats why I opted to go outside, it looked like it was turning into a serious discussion!! I got quite a laugh out of it.

[knowschad]

And what company in their right mind would make any money doing it?

Any company that believed that they would take in more money on cache policies sold than they would pay out in lost cache claims!

 

Your Homeowner's insurance likely covers things like the sunglasses stolen from the dash of your car. They know that they will earn more from the sales of policies that cover things like that than they will ever have to pay out, so it's very profitable to cover your sunglasses.

 

In fact the question arises... geocaches are personal property and may well be covered under your existing Homeowner's insurance. Not that you would want to file such a trivial claim against Homeowners insurance, but they're probably covered if you did.

 

I'm not sure homeowners would cover an item that's not on the property

With that sense of humor, all I can do is guess that you are trying to get to be a reviewer.

[+geodarts]

Wow! I could have used it when I had somebody take the contents of my cache that was filled with genuine expensive pirate treasure and replaced it with dirt, less than 24 hours after it was published. But there would probably be exclusions for pre-existing conditions like stupid cache placements. Then there are the micros.

 

So perhaps the only way it could be affordable is if Groundspeak provided insurance as part of a public option.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Erickson

[+briansnat]

Generally, you wouldn't get insurance on something unless it had an actual value. I would guess that the majority of caches out there don't real have any real value.

 

Hmmm, $5 for an ammo box, another $15 to stock it with swag and logbook. Not to mention the cost involved with repainting it, gas used to drive to the spot and the time (they say time =$) spent to place it.

 

That's real money to me.

[NeecesandNephews]

Generally, you wouldn't get insurance on something unless it had an actual value. I would guess that the majority of caches out there don't real have any real value.

 

Hmmm, $5 for an ammo box, another $15 to stock it with swag and logbook. Not to mention the cost involved with repainting it, gas used to drive to the spot and the time (they say time =$) spent to place it.

 

That's real money to me.

 

 

 

Now thats funny. The line you quoted was the very one that made me throw in the towel.

Turn out the lights the party's over.

Edited February 25, 2010 by NeecesandNephews

[+thedeadpirate]

Wow!!! Only five posts to go off in the ditch!!! Unbelievable!! I'm going caching, I will look in on this later!! You guys carry on!!

 

It was in the ditch on the first post. I assure you that TAR doesn't seriously think anyone will be selling cache insurance. Think of it as a way of lightening the mood around here.

Busted!

 

My point exactly!!! Thats why I opted to go outside, it looked like it was turning into a serious discussion!! I got quite a laugh out of it.

 

I get so mixed up. OT is usually funny and this section is usually serious.

 

Now OT is serious and TAR goes pulling pranks.

 

I'm just discombobulated.

[Keystone]

I've been selling "coordinate insurance" for several years. I mean, everyone knows that the cache reviewers tell their friends about where to find the puzzle caches, and how to shortcut the multicaches. So, for a mere $10.00 premium payment to my PayPal account, I will guarantee to the cache owner that their "hidden" additional waypoints will never be disclosed.

 

That being said, Platinum Members are well aware of my "insurance override" service.

[knowschad]

With that sense of humor, all I can do is guess that you are trying to get to be a reviewer.

OK, Keystone... enough is enough!!! Edited February 25, 2010 by knowschad

[Keystone]

With that sense of humor, all I can do is guess that you are trying to get to be a reviewer.

OK, Keystone... enough is enough!!!

That reminds me... your renewal premium is due. Check your email for a message with the subject line "Forum Suspension Insurance." It may have been trapped by your spam filter because the text of my message mentioned the "bittsen rider" that you purchased as part of your policy.

[knowschad]

With that sense of humor, all I can do is guess that you are trying to get to be a reviewer.

OK, Keystone... enough is enough!!!

That reminds me... your renewal premium is due. Check your email for a message with the subject line "Forum Suspension Insurance." It may have been trapped by your spam filter because the text of my message mentioned the "bittsen rider" that you purchased as part of your policy.