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GOF and Bacall

Cache maggot arrested.

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The law doesn't always follow "common sense," but it also doesn't take a genius to read it and understand what it means. Those fancy law degrees are mostly a matter of marketing, and the licensing requirements are just a way of keeping the fees high.

Gee, wouldn't it just suck if one of the forum moderators was a lawyer, and GeoGeeBee ever dared to violate one of the "common sense" forum guidelines?

 

We can only speculate. <_<

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This is the great fun of law, sorting out very complicated, conflicting rights.

One of my favorite books in my own law library is the collected Prize Cases from the US Supreme Court. Sadly, there hasn't been a litigated case in prize in the U.S. since the Spanish-American War. I love this sort of stuff.

 

I like to discuss it in a friendly manner when the situation allows for it... I'm just a lay person with an interest in mundane things regarding law and even just the interpretation of 'legalese'. I used to go for hours chatting with a HAM radio buddy as he commuted... sadly we had to wait til face to face for some things... and of course we both knew we couldn't discuss cases actively in the system, except for general principles... like the notion of ownership, definitions etc. but never guilt or innocence, or even punishments except as standard items... ie maximum vs minimum. Do things like that hold in US law? Do free speech rights exempt someone from suit for defamation or similar? I couldn't help but thinking re one of your earlier posts about treasure settlements... I certainly wouldn't have balked at 10% of the Nuestra Senora de Atocha treasure... of course the history of that held some really high costs for the salvors.

Any idea how the WWII art and valuable recovery cases are doing... another mess over ownership issues, although I heard they were settling up on many things. But again, I wander off topic a bit.

 

Doug

 

I'm still curious about the possibility of a judge declaring geocaches to be litter and what consequences that would have on the hobby.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

how is what he "alledgedly"did a little mistake?

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Just because he may have spent $30 a year to find PM caches (not a fact at this point, but anyway...) only means that he had a passion for what he believed in, just like this guy you wrote about. Sure... you and I disagree with these folks, but that does not mean that their intentions are not noble!!

 

you keep talking about him as if he's operating as an environmentalist, when we actually don't have any indication that he is. the only evidence we have to that effect is that he likes to canoe.

 

aside from that, all arguments about his motive don't hold up, since he hasn't given any reasons. that's one of the things that has mystified people about it for a long time: the complete absence of any indication WHY.

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His opinion was probably that geocaches were trash.

More mindless speculation: I think the guy is a borderline psycho. According to Flask, he's a premium member. If that's true, he's been spending $30 a year for nothing more than the opportunity to steal from others. He reminds me of a guy I met during a meeting with a local land manager. He was a member of some hiking organization, and was adamantly opposed to the existence of caches in the wild. This guy didn't view them as simple trash. He viewed them as an insult against Mother Nature. Abhorrent, disgusting "artifacts" left by man, destroying the environment. He & I agreed to disagree on the subject, and as far as I know, he's happy in his world, as I am happy in mine. The fidiot who has been stealing caches took this attitude to a whole new level by acting as Judge, jury and executioner on geocaches.

 

I can't begin to guess what aspect of his job requires a security clearance, but I can say that I am uncomfortable knowing that someone with such a twisted mental outlook is involved in some aspect of our military. This is not the kind of person who should have a security clearance. A bit more mindless speculation: This will end with the guy paying a token fine and losing his security clearance, which will result in him no longer being able to work in his current capacity. There is no way I could feel regret for actions that he brought upon himself.

Not mindless speculation at all. Just because he may have spent $30 a year to find PM caches (not a fact at this point, but anyway...) only means that he had a passion for what he believed in, just like this guy you wrote about. Sure... you and I disagree with these folks, but that does not mean that their intentions are not noble!! They aren't trying to ruin our fun... they are trying, in their own way, to protect the same environment that we all love. The only difference is that we don't see geocaches as a threat to that environment.

 

We seem to be acting as Judge, jury, and executioner here as well. All I am calling for here is some reason and a tiny bit of empathy. This is not a black and white area, and we are also asking for Mr "Maggot" to empathise with our point of view, aren't we? I don't think this is bleeding heart territory I'm venturing into. The guy stole our stuff. I have had my stuff, including caches, stolen. I'm ONLY asking for us to calm down... lower the terror level to at least yellow, and for god's sake, put the friggin' nooses away!!!

 

Where did you see anything that said this guy was saving anything? The whole save the planet angle was one of the possible reasons put forth by geocachers trying to guess what his motives were. Did I miss a post that says this if confirmed? All I know is the guy stole caches. Enough caches over a long enough period of time that the term "serial cache maggot" is a fitting description. Nobody is literally calling for a gallows to be built but should this guy have problems in his personal life brought on by his stealing other peoples property why should I feel bad about it? I feel sorry for his wife, his kids, but not him. My hope is that he gets an ACD with the condition that he attends counseling for his obsession with stealing caches. The rest is on him.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

 

Assuming this is the guy responsible for the removal of hundreds of caches, I don't think we can call this a little mistake. I don't think it calls for knee kicks or even jail time, but I do think it should be treated as more than a little mistake.

 

Of course, I am quite sure that even if the charges are dropped entirely, his reputation has been damage already. Seeing as he seems to be an avid outdoorsman, I am sure more than a couple of the people he recreates with are geocachers or are at least familiar enough with the hobby that he's gonna feel the heat for quite a while.

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how is what he "alledgedly"did a little mistake?

Just a technicality. He has admitted his wrongdoings in emails that have been posted here. For the most part, I am being facetious when I say that.

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we've missed out on the whole machiavellian angle - presuming that this was indeed a way to get rid of something that he considered an affront to nature, its okay for him to take the vigilante approach? would an intelligent, sane person not want to work within the law by petitioning to have geocaching made illegal?

 

is everyone okay with PETA throwing blood on furcoats and ALF freeing (and damaging research facilities in the process) animals being experimented on? both have noble ideology, but both perform criminal acts in order to further their agenda.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

No no no....

 

I have seen the light, remember?

Everyone should get at least one free pass. It wouldn't matter if he stole one cache or 5,000 caches. Once he's caught the first time, he should get a free pass. Everyone should accept that he's had a miraculous change of heart and is truly repentant for his transgressions if he promises to never to do it again.

 

I think this should apply to all wrongdoers. Give them a freebie if they say they are sorry and offer, say, $500 or more as a "donation" (wink wink) to forget the whole thing.

 

His wife should forgive him. All the geocachers should forgive him. His employer should look the other way and maybe even promote him for having this revelation. I would even recommend him for sainthood because this revelation, truly, is a miracle.

 

Can we all sing Kumbaya now?

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This is the great fun of law, sorting out very complicated, conflicting rights.

One of my favorite books in my own law library is the collected Prize Cases from the US Supreme Court. Sadly, there hasn't been a litigated case in prize in the U.S. since the Spanish-American War. I love this sort of stuff.

 

I like to discuss it in a friendly manner when the situation allows for it... I'm just a lay person with an interest in mundane things regarding law and even just the interpretation of 'legalese'. I used to go for hours chatting with a HAM radio buddy as he commuted... sadly we had to wait til face to face for some things... and of course we both knew we couldn't discuss cases actively in the system, except for general principles... like the notion of ownership, definitions etc. but never guilt or innocence, or even punishments except as standard items... ie maximum vs minimum. Do things like that hold in US law? Do free speech rights exempt someone from suit for defamation or similar? I couldn't help but thinking re one of your earlier posts about treasure settlements... I certainly wouldn't have balked at 10% of the Nuestra Senora de Atocha treasure... of course the history of that held some really high costs for the salvors.

Any idea how the WWII art and valuable recovery cases are doing... another mess over ownership issues, although I heard they were settling up on many things. But again, I wander off topic a bit.

 

Doug

 

I'm still curious about the possibility of a judge declaring geocaches to be litter and what consequences that would have on the hobby.

Yes, an interesting question. I don't think it will have a major effect past making it hard for us to expect any justice in cases like this. As this is the only case I have heard of where the thief has been so persistent it shouldn't be that big a deal.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

No no no....

 

I have seen the light, remember?

Everyone should get at least one free pass. It wouldn't matter if he stole one cache or 5,000 caches. Once he's caught the first time, he should get a free pass. Everyone should accept that he's had a miraculous change of heart and is truly repentant for his transgressions if he promises to never to do it again.

 

I think this should apply to all wrongdoers. Give them a freebie if they say they are sorry and offer, say, $500 or more as a "donation" (wink wink) to forget the whole thing.

 

His wife should forgive him. All the geocachers should forgive him. His employer should look the other way and maybe even promote him for having this revelation. I would even recommend him for sainthood because this revelation, truly, is a miracle.

 

Can we all sing Kumbaya now?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjoRd_DqyBg

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

 

Assuming this is the guy responsible for the removal of hundreds of caches, I don't think we can call this a little mistake. I don't think it calls for knee kicks or even jail time, but I do think it should be treated as more than a little mistake.

 

Of course, I am quite sure that even if the charges are dropped entirely, his reputation has been damage already. Seeing as he seems to be an avid outdoorsman, I am sure more than a couple of the people he recreates with are geocachers or are at least familiar enough with the hobby that he's gonna feel the heat for quite a while.

I agree 100% with this.

 

To Flask and GOF... yes, the environmental aspect is only my best guess, and as I have said repeatedly... at the very least, I suspect that was only the original motive, and I think that, from some of the caches that have been targeted, it is pretty obvious that it escalated to other motives, of which we can only speculate (there's that word again!). But the evidence for that theory goes well beyond a simply "he liked to canoe". He was a fanatic outdoor enthusiast. He probably read and adored (as I have, and do) Edward Abby. But again... I am only guessing, but I think its a pretty darned good guess.

Whether or not you agree with my guesses toward the motive, my main point here is a call to reason and for us all to behave better than the people we are judging.

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throw his maggot muggle butt in the slammer! I got enough problems with DNFs without someone stealing them! lol

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is everyone okay with PETA throwing blood on furcoats and ALF freeing (and damaging research facilities in the process) animals being experimented on? both have noble ideology, but both perform criminal acts in order to further their agenda.

Nope. And we also should not stoop to such extremes.

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throw his maggot muggle butt in the slammer! I got enough problems with DNFs without someone stealing them! lol
Brilliant. Thanks for showing geocaching in its best light. <_<

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throw his maggot muggle butt in the slammer! I got enough problems with DNFs without someone stealing them! lol

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Whether or not you agree with my guesses toward the motive, my main point here is a call to reason and for us all to behave better than the people we are judging.

 

i'm already better behaved than he is.

 

i haven't stolen anything, cut any chains, nor have i persistently maggoted caches over a period of years.

 

for me to wish to see him bear the consequences of his own bad conduct under due process of law is hardly bad behavior. it isn't even behavior.

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Whether or not you agree with my guesses toward the motive, my main point here is a call to reason and for us all to behave better than the people we are judging.

i'm already better behaved than he is.

i haven't stolen anything, cut any chains, nor have i persistently maggoted caches over a period of years.

for me to wish to see him bear the consequences of his own bad conduct under due process of law is hardly bad behavior. it isn't even behavior.

I completely agree with you, up to the point where the punishment exceeds the crime. You are a very intellegent woman... I'm sure that you can fill us all in on what happens to civilization when that happens, probably much better than I can. Losing one's loved ones and means of earning a living because of this is beyond reason. Picking up trash in plain view of his friends and neighbors, while wearing an orange jumpsuit... priceless. An appropriate financial restifution... right on! I'm only trying to lower the tone here, and I'd sure like to have your help.

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We seem to be acting as Judge, jury, and executioner here as well. All I am calling for here is some reason and a tiny bit of empathy.

Calls for calm and rational thought should always be welcome in a polite society. <_<

That being said, I think you are off the mark thinking that we, (the collective "we") are acting in that manner. When I think "Judge, jury & executioner", I think of someone who, when faced with something they dislike, takes direct action against it. Conversing in a forum hardly qualifies as direct action, even when the statements take a darker tone. Now, if Bittsen's hypothetical, tap shoe clad girl were to actually give him a foot in the nether regions, that would be JJ&E material.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

 

Assuming this is the guy responsible for the removal of hundreds of caches, I don't think we can call this a little mistake. I don't think it calls for knee kicks or even jail time, but I do think it should be treated as more than a little mistake.

 

Of course, I am quite sure that even if the charges are dropped entirely, his reputation has been damage already. Seeing as he seems to be an avid outdoorsman, I am sure more than a couple of the people he recreates with are geocachers or are at least familiar enough with the hobby that he's gonna feel the heat for quite a while.

I agree 100% with this.

 

To Flask and GOF... yes, the environmental aspect is only my best guess, and as I have said repeatedly... at the very least, I suspect that was only the original motive, and I think that, from some of the caches that have been targeted, it is pretty obvious that it escalated to other motives, of which we can only speculate (there's that word again!). But the evidence for that theory goes well beyond a simply "he liked to canoe". He was a fanatic outdoor enthusiast. He probably read and adored (as I have, and do) Edward Abby. But again... I am only guessing, but I think its a pretty darned good guess.

Whether or not you agree with my guesses toward the motive, my main point here is a call to reason and for us all to behave better than the people we are judging.

 

I don't think that the speculation of an eco motive is supported. I also don't think that anyone is expecting the local sheriff to erect a gallows on the courthouse lawn. What we are saying is that if this bring him problems in his professional or personal life he has no one to blame but himself. If it was over a two dollar hide a key that would be different. This guy stole hundreds of caches and their contents. How much do you think that totals? How many folks had their fun ruined? The COs and the seekers are the victims. They are the ones we should empathize with.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

No no no....

 

I have seen the light, remember?

Everyone should get at least one free pass. It wouldn't matter if he stole one cache or 5,000 caches. Once he's caught the first time, he should get a free pass. Everyone should accept that he's had a miraculous change of heart and is truly repentant for his transgressions if he promises to never to do it again.

 

I think this should apply to all wrongdoers. Give them a freebie if they say they are sorry and offer, say, $500 or more as a "donation" (wink wink) to forget the whole thing.

 

His wife should forgive him. All the geocachers should forgive him. His employer should look the other way and maybe even promote him for having this revelation. I would even recommend him for sainthood because this revelation, truly, is a miracle.

 

Can we all sing Kumbaya now?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjoRd_DqyBg

<_<:huh: Cute!!! Almost as funny as this one!! http://www.wikio.com/video/507615 :unsure:

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

No no no....

 

I have seen the light, remember?

Everyone should get at least one free pass. It wouldn't matter if he stole one cache or 5,000 caches. Once he's caught the first time, he should get a free pass. Everyone should accept that he's had a miraculous change of heart and is truly repentant for his transgressions if he promises to never to do it again.

 

I think this should apply to all wrongdoers. Give them a freebie if they say they are sorry and offer, say, $500 or more as a "donation" (wink wink) to forget the whole thing.

 

His wife should forgive him. All the geocachers should forgive him. His employer should look the other way and maybe even promote him for having this revelation. I would even recommend him for sainthood because this revelation, truly, is a miracle.

 

Can we all sing Kumbaya now?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjoRd_DqyBg

<_<:huh: Cute!!! Almost as funny as this one!! http://www.wikio.com/video/507615 :unsure:

Not gonna work guys. I am not going to follow either link.

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...the only evidence we have to that effect is that he likes to canoe...

See? Absolute proof that the guy is off his rocker. He's a canoeist, for Gaia's sake! Those guys are certifiable! <_<

He gets no love from me till he trades up for a kayak... :unsure:

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. I also don't think that anyone is expecting the local sheriff to erect a gallows on the courthouse lawn. What we are saying is that if this bring him problems in his professional or personal life he has no one to blame but himself. If it was over a two dollar hide a key that would be different. This guy stole hundreds of caches and their contents. How much do you think that totals? How many folks had their fun ruined? The COs and the seekers are the victims. They are the ones we should empathize with.
Of course not. I think there is only one person here leading the charge, and that is the primary voice that I am trying to shout down. I do think there is ample evidence of the environmental aspect, but again, we are all only speculating, and will surely never really know the truth.

To set the record straight... all we really know about is one cache stolen. I have not seen the perp admit to all the others, although I do believe that he was either guilty of it, or guilty of a conspiracy with others to do it (which might even be a greater crime?). Yeah... hundreds of dollars at least were spent replacing the caches. Ammo boxes... probably anywhere from $5 to $12 apiece. I'm under no delusions or illusions in that area. All I am saying is... let's be angry, as we should be, but lets stop the hate. Hate and anger are two different emotions with different results. I have been hearing too much hate here for my taste, particularily from one person, but those posts are having the effect of raising the heat and I don't like that.

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

Yeah, and maybe he should lose everything important to him because of that little mistake. Or, so says you, anyway. You were doing so well for a while. You actually managed to control your aggression, for the most part. But when you say that someone should lose his family and his job because of this, you have exceeded even the bounds that I have set for you, and that is saying something.

No no no....

 

I have seen the light, remember?

Everyone should get at least one free pass. It wouldn't matter if he stole one cache or 5,000 caches. Once he's caught the first time, he should get a free pass. Everyone should accept that he's had a miraculous change of heart and is truly repentant for his transgressions if he promises to never to do it again.

 

I think this should apply to all wrongdoers. Give them a freebie if they say they are sorry and offer, say, $500 or more as a "donation" (wink wink) to forget the whole thing.

 

His wife should forgive him. All the geocachers should forgive him. His employer should look the other way and maybe even promote him for having this revelation. I would even recommend him for sainthood because this revelation, truly, is a miracle.

 

Can we all sing Kumbaya now?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjoRd_DqyBg

<_<:huh: Cute!!! Almost as funny as this one!! http://www.wikio.com/video/507615 :unsure:

Not gonna work guys. I am not going to follow either link.

:D You're a smart feller!! And vice versa.

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Since we are speculating... what if the guy has a serious mental defect, is really NOT an environmentalist, and took up canoeing just to get to a cache that was only accessible that way??? I mean if you get your jollies by people not being able to find the local LPC you stole imagine what a thrill he would get knowing you made a 6 mile canoe trip into the wilderness to get a cache he stole.

 

I'm just sayin'

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His opinion was probably that geocaches were trash.

More mindless speculation: I think the guy is a borderline psycho. According to Flask, he's a premium member. If that's true, he's been spending $30 a year for nothing more than the opportunity to steal from others. He reminds me of a guy I met during a meeting with a local land manager. He was a member of some hiking organization, and was adamantly opposed to the existence of caches in the wild. This guy didn't view them as simple trash. He viewed them as an insult against Mother Nature. Abhorrent, disgusting "artifacts" left by man, destroying the environment. He & I agreed to disagree on the subject, and as far as I know, he's happy in his world, as I am happy in mine. The fidiot who has been stealing caches took this attitude to a whole new level by acting as Judge, jury and executioner on geocaches.

 

There's a small equestrian trail in the woods around here that allows hikers and geocaching. The land manager is very pro-geocaching :huh: but he told me the riders object to geocaching. He said it bothers them just knowing they are out there. <_<

 

What I can't get past is that if he's offended on behalf of Mother Earth, why is he in the Walmart parking lot under the lamppost skirt? You'd think he'd be more offended by the Walmart. I can't imagine that removing a hideakey is part of Edward Abbey's legacy of environmental monkeywrenching. That parking lot isn't getting any more pristine now that the cache is gone.

 

Maybe he's bothered just knowing they are out there. :unsure:

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So the admission that he was trying to shut someone down...

 

Who is hating? I wanted JUSTICE. Harsh justice. Biblical justice!

 

But now I want nothing but love and understanding. I have been showed the error of my ways. This poor soul is possibly mentally ill and should be offered treatment and his family should be given counseling. All the cachers who have had their caches stolen should chip in because he didn't really mean to cause them grief.

 

Come on everyone. Sing along with me.

 

All we need is love, da da dad da daaaa. All we need is love...

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His opinion was probably that geocaches were trash.

More mindless speculation: I think the guy is a borderline psycho. According to Flask, he's a premium member. If that's true, he's been spending $30 a year for nothing more than the opportunity to steal from others. He reminds me of a guy I met during a meeting with a local land manager. He was a member of some hiking organization, and was adamantly opposed to the existence of caches in the wild. This guy didn't view them as simple trash. He viewed them as an insult against Mother Nature. Abhorrent, disgusting "artifacts" left by man, destroying the environment. He & I agreed to disagree on the subject, and as far as I know, he's happy in his world, as I am happy in mine. The fidiot who has been stealing caches took this attitude to a whole new level by acting as Judge, jury and executioner on geocaches.

 

There's a small equestrian trail in the woods around here that allows hikers and geocaching. The land manager is very pro-geocaching :huh: but he told me the riders object to geocaching. He said it bothers them just knowing they are out there. <_<

 

What I can't get past is that if he's offended on behalf of Mother Earth, why is he in the Walmart parking lot under the lamppost skirt? You'd think he'd be more offended by the Walmart. I can't imagine that removing a hideakey is part of Edward Abbey's legacy of environmental monkeywrenching. That parking lot isn't getting any more pristine now that the cache is gone.

 

Maybe he's bothered just knowing they are out there. :unsure:

Well you just can't walk off with a Wally World in your pocket. People tend to notice.

 

"Is that a Walmart in your pocket or..."

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Since we are speculating... what if the guy has a serious mental defect, is really NOT an environmentalist, and took up canoeing just to get to a cache that was only accessible that way???

So... you haven't Googled his canoing accomplishments yet, huh? It is worth doing. For a guy in his late 60s... let me just say that he didn't take it up as a gentle retirement hobby, OK?

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So the admission that he was trying to shut someone down...

Who is hating? I wanted JUSTICE. Harsh justice. Biblical justice!

But now I want nothing but love and understanding. I have been showed the error of my ways. This poor soul is possibly mentally ill and should be offered treatment and his family should be given counseling. All the cachers who have had their caches stolen should chip in because he didn't really mean to cause them grief.

Come on everyone. Sing along with me.

All we need is love, da da dad da daaaa. All we need is love...

Uber genius, huh?

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Since we are speculating... what if the guy has a serious mental defect, is really NOT an environmentalist, and took up canoeing just to get to a cache that was only accessible that way???

So... you haven't Googled his canoing accomplishments yet, huh? It is worth doing. For a guy in his late 60s... let me just say that he didn't take it up as a gentle retirement hobby, OK?

 

 

Easy there KC, I was just speculating. :unsure: You know some of my thoughts on cache pirates already. <_<

 

I was trying to teach some college kids that there were consequences for your actions. I tried to teach my own kids the same thing. This guy is a grown man. I like to think he should have known better. I don't have the slightest clue what his motivations were, as I think most of us don't, and I can't say what the punishment should be as I don't know exactly what all he has done. Thats part of the reason I haven't joined in earlier. I think he is getting roasted pretty good here though!

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I was trying to teach some college kids that there were consequences for your actions.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! <_<:unsure::huh::D:anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::yikes::yikes:

 

Lotsa Luck, Pal! :yikes::ph34r::lol::P:P Thanks for lightening things up!

Edited by knowschad

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. I also don't think that anyone is expecting the local sheriff to erect a gallows on the courthouse lawn. What we are saying is that if this bring him problems in his professional or personal life he has no one to blame but himself. If it was over a two dollar hide a key that would be different. This guy stole hundreds of caches and their contents. How much do you think that totals? How many folks had their fun ruined? The COs and the seekers are the victims. They are the ones we should empathize with.
Of course not. I think there is only one person here leading the charge, and that is the primary voice that I am trying to shout down. I do think there is ample evidence of the environmental aspect, but again, we are all only speculating, and will surely never really know the truth.

To set the record straight... all we really know about is one cache stolen. I have not seen the perp admit to all the others, although I do believe that he was either guilty of it, or guilty of a conspiracy with others to do it (which might even be a greater crime?). Yeah... hundreds of dollars at least were spent replacing the caches. Ammo boxes... probably anywhere from $5 to $12 apiece. I'm under no delusions or illusions in that area. All I am saying is... let's be angry, as we should be, but lets stop the hate. Hate and anger are two different emotions with different results. I have been hearing too much hate here for my taste, particularily from one person, but those posts are having the effect of raising the heat and I don't like that.

 

If you and that particular person would just get a room (preferably without internet access) and take your posts with you and shout each other down (or whatever) all you want, I'm sure that many of us would appreciate it.

 

Meanwhile, before this thread is locked, may I respectfully request that a reasonable person who actually follows the story keep us updated in a future thread, without the forum drama?

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. I also don't think that anyone is expecting the local sheriff to erect a gallows on the courthouse lawn. What we are saying is that if this bring him problems in his professional or personal life he has no one to blame but himself. If it was over a two dollar hide a key that would be different. This guy stole hundreds of caches and their contents. How much do you think that totals? How many folks had their fun ruined? The COs and the seekers are the victims. They are the ones we should empathize with.
Of course not. I think there is only one person here leading the charge, and that is the primary voice that I am trying to shout down. I do think there is ample evidence of the environmental aspect, but again, we are all only speculating, and will surely never really know the truth.

To set the record straight... all we really know about is one cache stolen. I have not seen the perp admit to all the others, although I do believe that he was either guilty of it, or guilty of a conspiracy with others to do it (which might even be a greater crime?). Yeah... hundreds of dollars at least were spent replacing the caches. Ammo boxes... probably anywhere from $5 to $12 apiece. I'm under no delusions or illusions in that area. All I am saying is... let's be angry, as we should be, but lets stop the hate. Hate and anger are two different emotions with different results. I have been hearing too much hate here for my taste, particularily from one person, but those posts are having the effect of raising the heat and I don't like that.

 

If you and that particular person would just get a room (preferably without internet access) and take your posts with you and shout each other down (or whatever) all you want, I'm sure that many of us would appreciate it.

 

Meanwhile, before this thread is locked, may I respectfully request that a reasonable person who actually follows the story keep us updated in a future thread, without the forum drama?

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. I also don't think that anyone is expecting the local sheriff to erect a gallows on the courthouse lawn. What we are saying is that if this bring him problems in his professional or personal life he has no one to blame but himself. If it was over a two dollar hide a key that would be different. This guy stole hundreds of caches and their contents. How much do you think that totals? How many folks had their fun ruined? The COs and the seekers are the victims. They are the ones we should empathize with.
Of course not. I think there is only one person here leading the charge, and that is the primary voice that I am trying to shout down. I do think there is ample evidence of the environmental aspect, but again, we are all only speculating, and will surely never really know the truth.

To set the record straight... all we really know about is one cache stolen. I have not seen the perp admit to all the others, although I do believe that he was either guilty of it, or guilty of a conspiracy with others to do it (which might even be a greater crime?). Yeah... hundreds of dollars at least were spent replacing the caches. Ammo boxes... probably anywhere from $5 to $12 apiece. I'm under no delusions or illusions in that area. All I am saying is... let's be angry, as we should be, but lets stop the hate. Hate and anger are two different emotions with different results. I have been hearing too much hate here for my taste, particularily from one person, but those posts are having the effect of raising the heat and I don't like that.

 

If you and that particular person would just get a room (preferably without internet access) and take your posts with you and shout each other down (or whatever) all you want, I'm sure that many of us would appreciate it.

 

Meanwhile, before this thread is locked, may I respectfully request that a reasonable person who actually follows the story keep us updated in a future thread, without the forum drama?

 

I am in complete agreement with you. I am not the source of the drama, though. I am trying to be the source of reason. But thanks for pointing out the problems that arise from these conflicts.

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I have had 6-7 caches stolen over the last few months. At first I thought it was random happenstance, until two went missing that no one but a geocacher would have looked for or been able to find. I know the maggot is a geocacher, I have my suspicions as to who they are. I would love to be able to catch them in the act. However, seeing as how hell would freeze over before the Portland police responded to a geocaching theft, my only satisfaction would come by identifying them., and I hope, putting a stop to it myself.

 

So here is my two cents on cache maggots.

 

If they (collective they) are caught, and charges leveled, and a newspaper article written about them, and their name plastered all over the internet, they have already been painted with a scarlett letter. No matter what excuse they come up with, or how contrite they are, that information will always be available to the public, and can be accessed at a moments notice. Public humiliation is a pretty powerful thing, and the personal repercussions will be like a fall of dominos. If they are convicted of a crime, and punished in some way, it will be another humiliating and (I hope) humbling experience. Whether they learn to mend their ways is another matter.

 

This particular maggot has, imo, already gotten what he deserved. Whether or not the law says that he deserves more, is for the state of NY to decide.

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. I also don't think that anyone is expecting the local sheriff to erect a gallows on the courthouse lawn. What we are saying is that if this bring him problems in his professional or personal life he has no one to blame but himself. If it was over a two dollar hide a key that would be different. This guy stole hundreds of caches and their contents. How much do you think that totals? How many folks had their fun ruined? The COs and the seekers are the victims. They are the ones we should empathize with.
Of course not. I think there is only one person here leading the charge, and that is the primary voice that I am trying to shout down. I do think there is ample evidence of the environmental aspect, but again, we are all only speculating, and will surely never really know the truth.

To set the record straight... all we really know about is one cache stolen. I have not seen the perp admit to all the others, although I do believe that he was either guilty of it, or guilty of a conspiracy with others to do it (which might even be a greater crime?). Yeah... hundreds of dollars at least were spent replacing the caches. Ammo boxes... probably anywhere from $5 to $12 apiece. I'm under no delusions or illusions in that area. All I am saying is... let's be angry, as we should be, but lets stop the hate. Hate and anger are two different emotions with different results. I have been hearing too much hate here for my taste, particularily from one person, but those posts are having the effect of raising the heat and I don't like that.

 

If you and that particular person would just get a room (preferably without internet access) and take your posts with you and shout each other down (or whatever) all you want, I'm sure that many of us would appreciate it.

 

Meanwhile, before this thread is locked, may I respectfully request that a reasonable person who actually follows the story keep us updated in a future thread, without the forum drama?

 

I am in complete agreement with you. I am not the source of the drama, though. I am trying to be the source of reason. But thanks for pointing out the problems that arise from these conflicts.

 

You're as much responsible as s/he is and you are fully aware of the fact, I'm sure. You both get plenty of attention, could we have a few threads for the rest of us, please?

 

Y'all could meet in Montana or something...

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Thread participants should keep in mind the following excerpt from our forum guidelines:

 

Private discussions: Sometimes, a discussion thread strays off into a friendly dialogue or a heated debate among a very small number of users. For these exchanges, we ask that you please use the Private Message feature that is provided through the Groundspeak forums, or the Geocaching.com e-mail system. Public forum posts should be reserved for matters of interest to the general geocaching community.

 

Having now reminded the community of this guideline, I will now have no problem in enforcing it if necessary. I'd rather not have to do that, however. Thank you.

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I'm curious what's Groundspeak's take on this.

If this does make it to hearing, they "may" be affected by the outcome, at least in NY - for now.

As minor as it may appear to be to some, this is precedent-setting.

I imagine the "littering" issue batted around got a few there listening also.

 

Haven't gotten into "too" much trouble yet to know first-hand, so was also wondering what, if anything, the site has done to this person.

I've heard of folks getting "time outs" and banned, but at what point does this happen ?

When his name was posted for all to see, or after he's found guilty of something ?

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I'm curious what's Groundspeak's take on this.

If this does make it to hearing, they "may" be affected by the outcome, at least in NY - for now.

As minor as it may appear to be to some, this is precedent-setting.

I imagine the "littering" issue batted around got a few there listening also.

 

Haven't gotten into "too" much trouble yet to know first-hand, so was also wondering what, if anything, the site has done to this person.

I've heard of folks getting "time outs" and banned, but at what point does this happen ?

When his name was posted for all to see, or after he's found guilty of something ?

Groundspeak could have a larger role if it goes far enough. All that the prosecution needs to do is subpoena the information on those caches that were stolen and pair them up with a user logging in and searching for them. In a criminal case that subpoena would have already been issued.

And I still think the cache maggot deserves whatever he gets

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I'm curious what's Groundspeak's take on this.

If this does make it to hearing, they "may" be affected by the outcome, at least in NY - for now.

As minor as it may appear to be to some, this is precedent-setting.

I imagine the "littering" issue batted around got a few there listening also.

 

Haven't gotten into "too" much trouble yet to know first-hand, so was also wondering what, if anything, the site has done to this person.

I've heard of folks getting "time outs" and banned, but at what point does this happen ?

When his name was posted for all to see, or after he's found guilty of something ?

Groundspeak could have a larger role if it goes far enough. All that the prosecution needs to do is subpoena the information on those caches that were stolen and pair them up with a user logging in and searching for them. In a criminal case that subpoena would have already been issued.

And I still think the cache maggot deserves whatever he gets

 

I doubt Groundspeak would be subpoenaed for this, but I would think that now that his name is known that his account would be banned.

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I doubt Groundspeak would be subpoenaed for this, but I would think that now that his name is known that his account would be banned.

 

I doubt that Groundspeak will be subpoenaed also. I was saying it's a remote possibility.

It's also possible that a member (or group of members) who has had a cache stolen could file a civil suit and use the power of subpoena to get the information. I also don't think it will happen but it could.

 

I can't see Groundspeak banning him unless there is a conviction (and they knew his user name).

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I doubt Groundspeak would be subpoenaed for this, but I would think that now that his name is known that his account would be banned.

 

I doubt that Groundspeak will be subpoenaed also. I was saying it's a remote possibility.

It's also possible that a member (or group of members) who has had a cache stolen could file a civil suit and use the power of subpoena to get the information. I also don't think it will happen but it could.

 

I can't see Groundspeak banning him unless there is a conviction (and they knew his user name).

 

I dunno. They were apparently reluctant to get involved in the past when noone knew who it was. But now they have proof of at least a couple of stolen caches and he's already been outed by someone other than TPTB. Whether he is prosecuted fully and found guilty or not, I think GS has enough reason to ban his account.

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I dunno. They were apparently reluctant to get involved in the past when noone knew who it was. But now they have proof of at least a couple of stolen caches and he's already been outed by someone other than TPTB. Whether he is prosecuted fully and found guilty or not, I think GS has enough reason to ban his account.

 

Time will tell but if they do get involved, I would hope that they ban him for life.

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According to Flask, he's a premium member.

 

i only draw my conclusion on that from the fact that PMO caches were as vulnerable as reg'lar ones.

 

Well, PMO status can be turned on and off at the click of a mouse, and is often used after a cache is stolen the first time. I think you would need a local (DNNSGPS or GEOLOBO) to verify this for sure (such as a brand new published cache being PMO from day one), but personally, I'm pretty sure I've seen evidence of the guy having been a premium member, and stealing PMO's.

 

One thing for certain, you can verify that he solved puzzles, and paddled to canoe caches by looking at Geolobo's hides. He was definitely persistent.

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One item worth clarifying that is fueling some of the heat here is that there are multiple entities that can separately respond to this incident:

 

1. The legal system will respond to the particular facts in hand -- and that outcome will only be tied to whatever crimes are proven or admitted. It is unlikely to be a remedy for all of the stolen caches that this person may have taken over the years.

 

2. The individual's family and friends will probably learn about this. it's also possible that some of this circle have been aware of this activity all along, and may have even participated in it. Or those around him may be surprised and it may change some of the interactions in this person's life

 

3. The guy's employer may find out about it and also make decisions about whether this affects his job and security clearance.

 

4. The geocaching community itself is an affected entity, and has been for quite some time. I believe one appropriate way for the geocaching community to respond to such a situation is to put out a "Cache Maggot" or "To Cache a Thief" series of caches that all contain info from the news story and are placed at sites where caches were previously stolen. Pick the best examples, and let others learn about it in the future by seeking out those caches. Certainly the cache that Mr. Repek was arrested for taking would be one of the more significant ones in the series.

 

5. The individual cache owners are also affected parties, and are the victims whose caches were stolen. They can decide individually to interact with any of the above groups to voice their concerns and possibly affect the course of those actions. Perhaps the most aggrieved members in that group could also pursue other actions such as remedies in small claims court.

 

There are rational steps to be taken in every one of those groups, and the more successful outcomes are likely to be the least inflammatory.

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4. The geocaching community itself is an affected entity, and has been for quite some time. I believe one appropriate way for the geocaching community to respond to such a situation is to put out a "Cache Maggot" or "To Cache a Thief" series of caches that all contain info from the news story and are placed at sites where caches were previously stolen. Pick the best examples, and let others learn about it in the future by seeking out those caches. Certainly the cache that Mr. Repek was arrested for taking would be one of the more significant ones in the series.

 

There are rational steps to be taken in every one of those groups, and the more successful outcomes are likely to be the least inflammatory.

 

which is why this one is just a bad idea all around.

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I was trying to teach some college kids that there were consequences for your actions.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! <_<:unsure::huh::D:anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::anicute::yikes::yikes:

 

Lotsa Luck, Pal! :yikes: Thanks for lightening things up!

 

 

The word "futile" immediately springs to mind, but hey, I love a challenge!!!! :ph34r:

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