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GOF and Bacall

Cache maggot arrested.

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a lot of people are making assumptions based on the maggot's motivation.

 

he never once in his time of activity sent a message or left a note or claimed responsibility, or none that i heard.

 

...and i've been following the story for a long time.

 

that he's operating under some environmental cause is only the speculation of those in this forum.

 

it's hard to ascribe lofty morals or any principles at all in the absence of evidence, but what we do know is that ALL caches in his wide range were vulnerable: city caches, backcountry caches, puzzle caches, caches placed with permission at the VIC, caches that were chained down...

 

the only pattern is that caches were going missing. there was an additional observable pattern having to do with the days when caches went missing: caches in town and close to rome tended to go missing during the week, and caches in more remote locations went missing on weekends , especially long weekends.

 

it speaks to pattern and availability, but not to motive or state of mind.

 

what anyone GUESSES the maggot intended doesn't really enter into it here, but if y'all want to argue with each other over it, i'll be forced to post pictures of my neighbor's cat.

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...criticize others who are assuming this person is guilty before the legal system renders a decision.

 

yes. assuming anything is not productive.

 

... Does that have anything to do with whether the person is really innocent or guilty?

 

according to the law it does.

 

...allegations that one person stold hundreds of caches over a period of years, and assume that those facts are true...

 

the key words here are allegations and assume. i don't make assumptions.

 

... what do you think an appropriate outcome for that person should be if he or she were caught and convicted?...

 

some sort of restitution i suppose. an apology. nothing as drastic as losing one livelihood!

 

.. Is it relevant to you whether any of those stolen caches were not lawfully placed? We know from this thread that a number of them were lawfully placed, and that some were repeatedly stolen from private property where they were placed with permission...

 

yes. it is relevant. how many caches out there within a 100 mile radius of you are lawfully placed? can you even tell. do the COs say "i placed this cache in walmart's parking lot with permission?" if it was not lawfully placed, how can it be a crime to remove it?

 

>>Would you want to go through the entire list of caches this person removed and take into consideration how many of those caches were lawfully placed?<<

 

yes, but first you have to prove this person took each and everyone of those caches he is accused of taking. without proof, there is no reason to try to ascertain how many were lawfully placed.

 

you have to have proof there were hundreds stolen. does that mean in 3-4 years he was doing an awful lot of caching just to steal caches? what about his day job?

 

are you with bitsen — this person is almost equal to a terrorist?

 

don't we have better description of a terrorist than a person who removed a cache?

 

when do we teach our kids that disappointment is part of life and not "anquish." this is not rocket science.

 

i would like to see how many people who are willing to draw and quarter this guy actually speak up in agreement with bitsen and his lynching analogy as a way to control crime. i thought we outlawed lynching quite a few years ago. the chance of lynching the wrong person is great. i do not ascribe to mob mentality. and that includes someone who is accused of removing a cache.

 

i can see no one is going to agree with me here, so if ya'll don't mind i will bow out now. please, do continue with what you all see is the proper punishment of someone who dared to take one of your game pieces. let's equate that person with the real bad guys in this world.

 

and by all means, enjoy yourselves while making others uncomfortable with your booby-trapped caches.

 

what the legal system decides is what it decides. in the overall scheme of the universe this is not even a mote in god's eye.

 

may each of you with the stones in your hands learn — what goes around comes around. this is an opportunity for each person to rise above the lynch mob. or join in in pointing your finger, because you are perfect.

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Exactly. I think that what this guy (allegedly) did hurt a lot of cachers, but I also do not believe he has the low moral character that you attribute to him. I think that, at least originally, had what he considered to be honorable intentions. Yes, they surely conflicted with our own game, but I do believe he did it with values in mind, at least at one time. Yeah, it probably escalated out of control, and I'm sure not all of his muggles and thefts were done with honorable intentions, but to call him names like those is unconscionable to my way of thinking. This is lynch mob talk, and I want no part of it.

So I guess you won't be chipping in on the "Send bittsen to New York" fund?

 

You can all chip in and fly me to Hawaii where I will sign "Bittsen" to every cache I find.

 

Just make sure to skip the (Maui) Hawaii caches I have already done. Wouldn't want to make a silly mistake like that.

 

I'd probably enjoy myself more on one of the less visited islands anyways. Besides, there is no rule that says you can't revisit a cache.

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Whew, now that she's gone I won't have to explain the difference between the term "lynch mob" and actually calling for someone to be executed by hanging (which I didn't even come close to suggesting)

 

I did say it would be OK for someone to kick him in the groin though, so if that's equal with lynching...

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Exactly. I think that what this guy (allegedly) did hurt a lot of cachers, but I also do not believe he has the low moral character that you attribute to him. I think that, at least originally, had what he considered to be honorable intentions. Yes, they surely conflicted with our own game, but I do believe he did it with values in mind, at least at one time. Yeah, it probably escalated out of control, and I'm sure not all of his muggles and thefts were done with honorable intentions, but to call him names like those is unconscionable to my way of thinking. This is lynch mob talk, and I want no part of it.

So I guess you won't be chipping in on the "Send bittsen to New York" fund?

 

You can all chip in and fly me to Hawaii where I will sign "Bittsen" to every cache I find.

 

Just make sure to skip the (Maui) Hawaii caches I have already done. Wouldn't want to make a silly mistake like that.

 

I'd probably enjoy myself more on one of the less visited islands anyways. Besides, there is no rule that says you can't revisit a cache.

 

Yeah, but I wouldn't revisit a cache. You were implying a frame job, right? I wouldn't want you to mess it up with a silly mistake.

You can still visit the caches, just don't sign them :rolleyes:

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Whew, now that she's gone I won't have to explain the difference between the term "lynch mob" and actually calling for someone to be executed by hanging (which I didn't even come close to suggesting)

 

I did say it would be OK for someone to kick him in the groin though, so if that's equal with lynching...

 

criminy, do you think you could really say that and ecxpect me not to respond?

 

you said >>Yeah, it's a lynch mob mentality. I wish we had more lynch mobs. There would be MUCH less crime (one way or another)<<

 

lynch mob — noun

a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority

 

lynch –verb (used with object)

to put to death, esp. by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority.

Edited by RedShoesGirl

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Just to bring some of the late comers up to speed. GeoLobo has been in contact with the person in question and has stated that it is the guy that has been steeling caches for years. We aren't talking about someone who stole one or two caches.

 

First of all, what you all do not know is that this cache thief has been stealing caches from the Rome/Utica area up north to the Adirondack Region (myself being one of the cachers affected by his activities). He has been stealing caches for over three years. Many attempts have been made to catch him (Stake outs, game cameras, etc). I know this is the same person because of his profile in the Rome Sentinental paper (Professional guide, canoe paddler, 90 miler contestant). He has stolen the cache at the Adirondck Museum (private property) over 9 times. One of the times, he brought a pair of lock cutters to cut a very large thick chain that was welded to the ammo can. Three reports have been made to the N.Y. State Troopers regarding this cache alone.

 

I know he is the same person, because I have had a dialog with him (via email - 4 exchanges) since his arrest and he has basically offered restitution and/or volunteered time to educate people in the sport of geocaching. We have invited him to a event on the 27th (GC21G1J) to make a public apology to the majority of the geocachers he has affected.

 

I am still waiting his response to my last email to him.

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Exactly. I think that what this guy (allegedly) did hurt a lot of cachers, but I also do not believe he has the low moral character that you attribute to him. I think that, at least originally, had what he considered to be honorable intentions. Yes, they surely conflicted with our own game, but I do believe he did it with values in mind, at least at one time. Yeah, it probably escalated out of control, and I'm sure not all of his muggles and thefts were done with honorable intentions, but to call him names like those is unconscionable to my way of thinking. This is lynch mob talk, and I want no part of it.

So I guess you won't be chipping in on the "Send bittsen to New York" fund?

 

You can all chip in and fly me to Hawaii where I will sign "Bittsen" to every cache I find.

 

Just make sure to skip the (Maui) Hawaii caches I have already done. Wouldn't want to make a silly mistake like that.

 

I'd probably enjoy myself more on one of the less visited islands anyways. Besides, there is no rule that says you can't revisit a cache.

 

Yeah, but I wouldn't revisit a cache. You were implying a frame job, right? I wouldn't want you to mess it up with a silly mistake.

You can still visit the caches, just don't sign them :rolleyes:

 

I'll just sign my name to any that already have your name on the log. Then we can have a whole email conversation about how we can't believe we were both there at the same time and didn't bump into each other.

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Exactly. I think that what this guy (allegedly) did hurt a lot of cachers, but I also do not believe he has the low moral character that you attribute to him. I think that, at least originally, had what he considered to be honorable intentions. Yes, they surely conflicted with our own game, but I do believe he did it with values in mind, at least at one time. Yeah, it probably escalated out of control, and I'm sure not all of his muggles and thefts were done with honorable intentions, but to call him names like those is unconscionable to my way of thinking. This is lynch mob talk, and I want no part of it.

So I guess you won't be chipping in on the "Send bittsen to New York" fund?

If it causes you to lose your plausable deniability... sure I will!! :rolleyes:

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I'll go ahead and toss in my 1/2 cent worth.

 

I find this entire situation very interesting.

 

First of all, if this were a case of 1 or 2 missing caches, it would be a complete non-issue. We are talking about potentially hundreds of caches. I am very confident that a high number of the caches taken had the standard geocaching sheet explaining what caching is and how to participate should you come across the cache by accident. Therefore, I would say it is reasonable to expect that an intelligent man would be fully aware of what he was doing.

 

As far as the impact he's had, it is my understanding that due to his activities that geocaching has been severely affected in the area. For this, my gut says he should be out more than just a $100 fine. I would like to see him fined sufficiently that he thinks twice about resuming his activities.

 

That being said, we are talking about a misdemeanor. I don't think the crime is deserving of losing his job over. If he worked for Joe's Plumbing, his boss would probably be laughing along with him at this whole thing. It would be no different than being caught speeding. He would pay his fine and be on his way. His employer would likely not take any of it seriously; at least not serious enough to terminate a good employee.

 

The problem here is that he doesn't work for Joe Plumber. He works for the United States Air Force and they generally don't take kindly to their employees giving them a bad name.

 

Whatever the fallout over this is, he did bring it upon himself. But I can't in good conscience wish complete doom and gloom over this guy. I just hope justice is served and a fair punishment is exacted upon him.

 

What I am really curious to see is whether or not he makes it to trial. If so, I am sure the question of whether or not geocaches are indeed litter will come up. If a judge does manage to classify geocaches as litter, would that not have a far more reaching effect on geocaching than exacting retribution on a cache maggot?

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Exactly. I think that what this guy (allegedly) did hurt a lot of cachers, but I also do not believe he has the low moral character that you attribute to him. I think that, at least originally, had what he considered to be honorable intentions. Yes, they surely conflicted with our own game, but I do believe he did it with values in mind, at least at one time. Yeah, it probably escalated out of control, and I'm sure not all of his muggles and thefts were done with honorable intentions, but to call him names like those is unconscionable to my way of thinking. This is lynch mob talk, and I want no part of it.

So I guess you won't be chipping in on the "Send bittsen to New York" fund?

If it causes you to lose your plausable deniability... sure I will!! :P

 

:rolleyes: Don't tell Bittsen this but you realize I am only in it for the free trip to Hawaii, right? I have no intention of actually participating in any way. :huh:

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i can see no one is going to agree with me here, so if ya'll don't mind i will bow out now.

 

promises, promises...

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i can see no one is going to agree with me here, so if ya'll don't mind i will bow out now.

 

promises, promises...

 

i know, i know, i must be a maggot that must be lynched.

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criminy, do you think you could really say that and ecxpect me not to respond?

 

you said >>Yeah, it's a lynch mob mentality. I wish we had more lynch mobs. There would be MUCH less crime (one way or another)<<

 

lynch mob — noun

a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority

 

lynch –verb (used with object)

to put to death, esp. by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority.

 

nitHead.jpg

 

Here's some more to pick....

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i can see no one is going to agree with me here, so if ya'll don't mind i will bow out now.

 

promises, promises...

 

i know, i know, i must be a maggot that must be lynched.

 

weird.

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criminy, do you think you could really say that and ecxpect me not to respond?

 

you said >>Yeah, it's a lynch mob mentality. I wish we had more lynch mobs. There would be MUCH less crime (one way or another)<<

 

lynch mob — noun

a mob that kills a person for some presumed offense without legal authority

 

lynch –verb (used with object)

to put to death, esp. by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority.

 

nitHead.jpg

 

Here's some more to pick....

 

Ummm, that's not nit picking. Lynch mob has a very distinct meaning. And stealing a cache does not equate to hanging.

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i have to say that while i don't think that the penalty for cache maggoting ought to be the loss of one's livelihood, if one has the sort of job wherein one might be dismissed if one is caught in a series of petty thefts, one might take care not to engage in such behaviors.

 

a person in such a position has no excuse; a series of actions taking place over a long period of years can't be construed as a simple error, nor can it be construed even as a loss of judgment, a momentary loss of temper.

 

if the employer expects workers not to be thieves of any kind, then yes, even petty thieves deserve to be dismissed.

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Ummm, that's not nit picking. Lynch mob has a very distinct meaning. And stealing a cache does not equate to hanging.

 

I suspect that some people are the type that will not let this comment go without me making this totally unnecessary statement so here it goes.

 

There is a difference between a figurative comment and a literal comment. For anyone who cannot distinguish the difference, think of this. Have you ever uttered the words "I could kill (insert person here)"? Or "I wish (insert name here) was dead!"?

 

If you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

 

My lynch mob comments were figurative, not literal.

 

Can we all get back to the subject now or do you want to carry on with the lynch mob mentality over my comments?

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i have to say that while i don't think that the penalty for cache maggoting ought to be the loss of one's livelihood, if one has the sort of job wherein one might be dismissed if one is caught in a series of petty thefts, one might take care not to engage in such behaviors.

 

a person in such a position has no excuse; a series of actions taking place over a long period of years can't be construed as a simple error, nor can it be construed even as a loss of judgment, a momentary loss of temper.

 

if the employer expects workers not to be thieves of any kind, then yes, even petty thieves deserve to be dismissed.

 

Which is in line with my comments of "I hope he gets what he deserves". A quite ambiguous statement but inclusive.

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...we don't know anything yet but people are willing to let this guy get divorced, lose his job, for what, a game piece? where is the logic? unless you guys are perfect, quit throwing stones.

It's not about a game piece. it's not about 100 game pieces or however-many dollars in swag and travelers or disruption to our game.

 

It's about a grown man choosing to become a serial thief over a long period of time in knowing violation of established law. Whatever happens as a result will be the direct result of his illegal behavior, and has nothing to do with any opinion voiced here.

 

It's sometimes harsh to lay in the bed you make, but you made it so you get to lay in it.

 

And I love apologies for "alleged" acts... he won't even say he did anything wrong! <_<

 

I hope the judge is in an allegedly foul mood the day this one comes to his docket.

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<snip>

 

I hope the judge is in an allegedly foul mood the day this one comes to his docket.

 

I hope the judge has a relative (or few) who have had a cache maggot steal their cache.

 

~crossing fingers~

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Ummm, that's not nit picking. Lynch mob has a very distinct meaning. And stealing a cache does not equate to hanging.

 

I suspect that some people are the type that will not let this comment go without me making this totally unnecessary statement so here it goes.

 

There is a difference between a figurative comment and a literal comment. For anyone who cannot distinguish the difference, think of this. Have you ever uttered the words "I could kill (insert person here)"? Or "I wish (insert name here) was dead!"?

 

If you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

 

My lynch mob comments were figurative, not literal.

 

Can we all get back to the subject now or do you want to carry on with the lynch mob mentality over my comments?

 

I suspect there are some people who have to post a big picture of a lice knit rather than just admit they are wrong.

 

I believe the guy deserves some kind of punishment. I do not believe he should be lynched or even kicked in the knees by a mob with steel toed shoes.

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Ummm, that's not nit picking. Lynch mob has a very distinct meaning. And stealing a cache does not equate to hanging.

 

I suspect that some people are the type that will not let this comment go without me making this totally unnecessary statement so here it goes.

 

There is a difference between a figurative comment and a literal comment. For anyone who cannot distinguish the difference, think of this. Have you ever uttered the words "I could kill (insert person here)"? Or "I wish (insert name here) was dead!"?

 

If you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

 

My lynch mob comments were figurative, not literal.

 

Can we all get back to the subject now or do you want to carry on with the lynch mob mentality over my comments?

I can't see the difference. I'm sure that doesn't surprise you. But your overly agressive, inflammatory speech here should not go unchecked. Settle down, boy! This is getting way too emotional. Personally, I detest the term "maggot" anyway, as if this human being is someone lower than life. This is a game, folks. This person had a difference of opinion from us, and acted on it, and yeah... it affected us. But "maggot"? "terrorist"? Let's start acting a little more like adults here, OK?

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There is a difference between a figurative comment and a literal comment. For anyone who cannot distinguish the difference, think of this. Have you ever uttered the words "I could kill (insert person here)"? Or "I wish (insert name here) was dead!"?

When you are the defendant in a murder trial try explaining to the jury that "I wish he was dead! I could kill him myself!" was a figurative statement! <_<

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Ummm, that's not nit picking. Lynch mob has a very distinct meaning. And stealing a cache does not equate to hanging.

 

I suspect that some people are the type that will not let this comment go without me making this totally unnecessary statement so here it goes.

 

There is a difference between a figurative comment and a literal comment. For anyone who cannot distinguish the difference, think of this. Have you ever uttered the words "I could kill (insert person here)"? Or "I wish (insert name here) was dead!"?

 

If you don't see the difference, I can't help you.

 

My lynch mob comments were figurative, not literal.

 

Can we all get back to the subject now or do you want to carry on with the lynch mob mentality over my comments?

I can't see the difference. I'm sure that doesn't surprise you. But your overly agressive, inflammatory speech here should not go unchecked. Settle down, boy! This is getting way too emotional. Personally, I detest the term "maggot" anyway, as if this human being is someone lower than life. This is a game, folks. This person had a difference of opinion from us, and acted on it, and yeah... it affected us. But "maggot"? "terrorist"? Let's start acting a little more like adults here, OK?

I don't think I'd go as far as terrorist but I have no problem with cache maggot. It is a term that has grown out of this activity to describe a lowlife scoundrel that would steal a cache. It fits. And while I can understand what Bittsen is trying to say I agree it may be time to tone it down a bit. It is all starting to go over the top. But that doesn't mean I don't still want my free trip!

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I can see no one is going to agree with me here, so if ya'll don't mind I will bow out now.

Ta Ta For Now! :unsure:

 

Criminy, do you think you could really say that and expect me not to respond?

Well, that was brief... <_<

 

This person had a difference of opinion from us, and acted on it

Do you really see his actions as nothing more than a difference of opinion, followed by action?

I have a difference of opinion from many in here regarding inferior cache containers.

I even go so far as to act on that opinion by posting my thoughts whenever the subject comes up.

If I were to go about stealing every cache that doesn't meet my biased standards, would you be my proponent?

While I concur that talk of violence, even figuratively, is a bad thing, I think it's equally as bad to minimize his crimes.

This is not some kid heck bent on mischief. Let's not pretend he's a prankster.

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And not even on the high seas! Ask Lloyd's of London who *they* think owns half the sunken treasure in the world. There is a great body of litigation about the discovery of the S.S. Central America, the (I believe) highest valued treasure find ever in the western hemisphere. Turned out that Lloyd's had paid out a claim to the owners of the ship and therefore owned the ship. Question was whether Lloyd's, in not seeking out the ship, had abandoned their claim and therefore lost the claim, or whether they still owned the ship and its contents and therefore only had to pay out salvage rights (10%). I think it ended up being settled for 50/50 or some such.

 

Not quite as old as common law, but the British Admiralty helped set out a lot of the appropriate rulings during the height of the Empire... About the only agreed upon claiming situation is a totally abandoned vessel still afloat in International Waters... that can be boarded and claimed for value, but it usually gets worked out by the principals these days depending on why, who and a whole raft of issues... most salvagers understand this, and only wish a 'fair' compensation for their work and usually high risk. On a small scale, there were cases during the 60's and 70's which involved sport divers from both sides of the border who were 'caught' stripping wrecks in the Canadian side of the border... There is the official Receiver of Wreck, who decides who owns what... the insurer or registered owner being first in line as you said. Now we have a broader legislation which prevents taking anything without prior permission, especially in protected waters.

I know of one case where a dive team announced they were going to salvage a freshly sunk yacht in Fathom Five park waters.... NOPE! all wreck was protected from any salvage, although eventually personal possesions were allowed to be removed by the government for the owners.

 

This is way off the line I fear, but the idea of ownership is valid here, since it relates to cache ownership and common perception of what that entails. Again, what is law in the States is not what much of the world takes as normal... similar yes and often based on the same things, but very different.

 

Doug

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Terrorist has more than one meaning, folks.

What is an Eco-terrorist? Hmmmm??

If this guy was in it for the ecology aspect of removing caches, as suggested, he's right in line with eco-terrorism (just never crossed that ambiguous line).

 

I said he was serial, and people agreed. But I guess calling him a terrorist isn't going to fly. Color me shocked.

 

I am calm, I assure you. I am also one who believes in strict and expedious punishment. I believe that if this person negatively impacted 100 lives then his life should be negatively impacted 100 ways. Hey, it makes sense. I also believe that most punishments doled out by the authorities are lenient and society indicates I am correct by the rate of repeat offenders. But, hey, I'm off base, right?

 

As I have said. I hope he gets what he deserves. I have also said I wouldn't cry if he lost his job and wife, home and family. He did it to himself. Will I cause him to lose anything? No. Will I be upset if he loses it all? No. Why is that a problem?

 

Is he truly sorry? I bet he's sorry he got caught but not truly repentant for his deeds. I've been in the lockup with people who were guilty. I've been to court and watched someone lie about their remorse, only to be there later when they were laughing about the slap on the wrist. I KNOW how a criminal mind works. And, knowing what I know (assuming he was honest when he said he stole the caches) I can rest assured that he will regret his actions but probably not be truly sorry to the people who he affected. He didn't have a sudden epiphany the second the cuffs were put on. In fact, I would bet real money that he's been badmouthing those people who reported him.

 

It's not for me to say what he deserves as a punishment but I sure hope he gets it.

If it were up to me, the kicks to the shins would be his smallest concern. I don't often agree with physical punishment. I have other thoughts on punishment.

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RomeSentinel.com Reported on a cache thief that was arrested Tuesday afternoon.

 

Now the question is if it will stick.

 

by sean i. mills Staff writer

 

An electronics engineer at the Air Force Research Laboratory was arrested Tuesday afternoon for stealing a trinket from a GPS-based game of hide and seek.

 

Paul L. Repak, 58, of Lewis Road, Boonville, stole a small magnetic case from its hiding place on the Griffiss Park at about 4:15 p.m., according to Detective Commander Timothy J. Bates. The case was hidden as part of a game called "geocaching", where people hide small trinkets in their neighborhood and then other players use the Global Positioning System to follow the coordinates and find the trinkets.

 

The point of the game is then to either put the trinket back or replace it with something new for other players to find.

 

"When the geo-thief takes a cache container and does whatever it is he does with it, all the swag, log book, geo-coins and travel bugs are lost forever," said local geocacher Carole Darling, of Kent Street. "The game is ruined for other players."

 

Darling said she hid the magnetic case two days ago on public property near the new sculptures on Griffiss, and was driving by the site Tuesday when she saw that someone had found it. Darling parked nearby to speak with the person, but when she approached him, he took off running into a nearby wooded area, police said.

 

"If you’re a geocacher, you don’t run," Darling said. Suspicious of the man, Darling said she called police because geocachers in the area have had a problem for years with people stealing the trinkets.

 

"Someone had been going around taking the items, the trinkets," Det. Bates stated.

 

When police responded to the scene, Bates said Repak’s car was still there. The officers staked out the vehicle until Repak emerged from the woods, and he was arrested after he was found with the magnetic case.

 

Bates said Repak is charged with petty larceny and fifth-degree possession of stolen property. He was released after posting $100 cash bail, and is scheduled to appear in City Court.

 

Repak is an electrical engineer in the Cyber Operations Branch of the Air Force Research Laboratory Information Directorate, authorities said. Calls to the Air Force Public Affairs Office were not returned this morning.

Help, I took a geocache and did not know I was not supposed to. I thought you were supposed to find and take them, I was working in training for the Mounted Search and Rescue, volunteering to find missing persons. I have not way of putting it back and want to give it back.....Lisa. Thanks for your help. If you do not want to help. do not email me to give me grief either. It has taken me a very long time to log in to this site and I respect your hobby and want to make it right......

Edited by lisajanke

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This person had a difference of opinion from us, and acted on it

Do you really see his actions as nothing more than a difference of opinion, followed by action?

This is not some kid heck bent on mischief. Let's not pretend he's a prankster.

Yes, I do see it, or at least, can see it, as a difference in opinion. Perhaps the Libra in me. But I honestly do believe that was the primary motivation, although as I have already said, that (along with 90% of this thread) is pure speculation. His opinion was probably that geocaches were trash. Our opinion is that they are not. His opinion was that they were abandoned. Our opinion differs. Both points of view are essentially valid ones, which is what makes this suck a sticky legal wicket.

 

I also think that it is important that we take the high road here. We are supposed to be better than a "maggot", not equal to, or lower than that. Let's keep this conversation on a higher level than we have been. Odds are very good that there are non-geocachers that have joined up for the sole purpose of following this thread. I am frankly a little more than embarrassed about the impression our little group would give an outsider right now. This guy stole some caches. He did not kill any babies.

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Help, I took a geocache and did not know I was not supposed to. I thought you were supposed to find and take them, I was working in training for the Mounted Search and Rescue, volunteering to find missing persons. I have not way of putting it back and want to give it back.....Lisa. Thanks for your help. If you do not want to help. do not email me to give me grief either. It has taken me a very long time to log in to this site and I respect your hobby and want to make it right......

If you tell us where you took it from we can help you get in contact with the owner of the cache.

Honest mistakes happen. That isn't what this thread is about.

 

Thanks for wanting to get the cache back to the owner.

Edited by bittsen

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As I have said. I hope he gets what he deserves. I have also said I wouldn't cry if he lost his job and wife, home and family. He did it to himself.

You have GOT to be kidding me!!! Get over yourself!!! Have you ever heard of the concept of punishment fitting the crime? You also probably wouldn't cry of he lost his job, wife, home, and family, and ended up committing suicide because of his losses.

 

By the way, I have noticed for some time that you sure have latched on to the concept of the "cache maggot is the worst form of life" theory. How many of your caches have been hit by "maggots"? For that matter... how many caches have you hidden, period, to be so indignant about these so-called "maggots"?

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I've been content (and fascinated) to read along with this thread, without commenting. I will come out of lurking to say "Lisa its great of you to take the action you have chosen, and to feel the need to act responsibly in trying to return the cache".

 

 

That said I hope I don't end up looking the fool to some troll who tried to get bittsens attention and suck him in!!!! One of those things that makes ya say "hmmmm" <_<:unsure::huh:

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Honest mistakes happen. That isn't what this thread is about.

Thanks for wanting to get the cache back to the owner.

That much I can agree with you on. But philosophical differences also happen, and they aren't worth the angst that you have been showing here. Edited by knowschad

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Not quite as old as common law, but the British Admiralty helped set out a lot of the appropriate rulings during the height of the Empire... About the only agreed upon claiming situation is a totally abandoned vessel still afloat in International Waters... that can be boarded and claimed for value, but it usually gets worked out by the principals these days depending on why, who and a whole raft of issues... most salvagers understand this, and only wish a 'fair' compensation for their work and usually high risk. On a small scale, there were cases during the 60's and 70's which involved sport divers from both sides of the border who were 'caught' stripping wrecks in the Canadian side of the border... There is the official Receiver of Wreck, who decides who owns what... the insurer or registered owner being first in line as you said. Now we have a broader legislation which prevents taking anything without prior permission, especially in protected waters.

I know of one case where a dive team announced they were going to salvage a freshly sunk yacht in Fathom Five park waters.... NOPE! all wreck was protected from any salvage, although eventually personal possesions were allowed to be removed by the government for the owners.

 

This is way off the line I fear, but the idea of ownership is valid here, since it relates to cache ownership and common perception of what that entails. Again, what is law in the States is not what much of the world takes as normal... similar yes and often based on the same things, but very different.

 

Doug

 

This is the great fun of law, sorting out very complicated, conflicting rights.

One of my favorite books in my own law library is the collected Prize Cases from the US Supreme Court. Sadly, there hasn't been a litigated case in prize in the U.S. since the Spanish-American War. I love this sort of stuff.

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Help, I took a geocache and did not know I was not supposed to. I thought you were supposed to find and take them, I was working in training for the Mounted Search and Rescue, volunteering to find missing persons. I have not way of putting it back and want to give it back.....Lisa. Thanks for your help. If you do not want to help. do not email me to give me grief either. It has taken me a very long time to log in to this site and I respect your hobby and want to make it right......

 

Lisa,

You aren't the first person to make that mistake. This particular thread is probably not the best place to find help, though. If you scroll down a bit you will see a box labeled "New Topic". If you click that box you will be able to start a topic where some of the fine folks here can help you.

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OK, you have made me see the light.

 

I now feel sorry for poor Paul Repak. All he was doing was trying to protect his environment. He should suffer no strife and we should all donate to his defense fund.

If there is anything left over from his defense fund, we should send him to counseling. If there is any marital outfall from his excusable lapse of judgment then we should pay for he and his wife to go on a couples cruise together. If there is anyone in his employment that speaks ill of him or he suffers in any way in his job, we should all contact our congressmen to have them stand up for ths poor, misguided, man.

 

Perhaps we should all say prayers that he be forgiven and suffer no ill will. I shall start going to church immediately to gain favor with a higher power so that my prayers will go answered and poor, dear, Paul Repak gets aquitted of any wrongdoing.

 

Yes, we must feel bad for Mr. Repak for he is an innocent in this matter. After all, it's just gamepieces and we have so many more.

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As I have said. I hope he gets what he deserves. I have also said I wouldn't cry if he lost his job and wife, home and family. He did it to himself.

You have GOT to be kidding me!!! Get over yourself!!! Have you ever heard of the concept of punishment fitting the crime? You also probably wouldn't cry of he lost his job, wife, home, and family, and ended up committing suicide because of his losses.

 

By the way, I have noticed for some time that you sure have latched on to the concept of the "cache maggot is the worst form of life" theory. How many of your caches have been hit by "maggots"? For that matter... how many caches have you hidden, period, to be so indignant about these so-called "maggots"?

 

I'm not wishing any of that on the guy. I fully expect that it will not actually go to any kind of trial. It will most likely end up in an ACD and in a year the matter will be dismissed and the records sealed. However, should the guy loose his job or family or his home I would not feel bad about it. He is the one who did it. He is a supposedly intelligent person. He should be smart enough to understand that his actions would have consequences.

 

As for the whole echo angle that is just speculation. Nothing I have seen points to this guy having any such supposed lofty agenda.

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I'm not wishing any of that on the guy. I fully expect that it will not actually go to any kind of trial. It will most likely end up in an ACD and in a year the matter will be dismissed and the records sealed. However, should the guy loose his job or family or his home I would not feel bad about it. He is the one who did it. He is a supposedly intelligent person. He should be smart enough to understand that his actions would have consequences.

 

As for the whole echo angle that is just speculation. Nothing I have seen points to this guy having any such supposed lofty agenda.

 

Why do I get read the riot act when I say the same thing?

 

But, remember. We must coddle this poor misguided soul. Forgiveness is the path to enlightenment.

 

 

And, also remember, you aren't even allowed to have an opinion unless all of your caches have been stolen

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OK, you have made me see the light.

 

I now feel sorry for poor Paul Repak. All he was doing was trying to protect his environment. He should suffer no strife and we should all donate to his defense fund.

If there is anything left over from his defense fund, we should send him to counseling. If there is any marital outfall from his excusable lapse of judgment then we should pay for he and his wife to go on a couples cruise together. If there is anyone in his employment that speaks ill of him or he suffers in any way in his job, we should all contact our congressmen to have them stand up for ths poor, misguided, man.

 

Perhaps we should all say prayers that he be forgiven and suffer no ill will. I shall start going to church immediately to gain favor with a higher power so that my prayers will go answered and poor, dear, Paul Repak gets aquitted of any wrongdoing.

 

Yes, we must feel bad for Mr. Repak for he is an innocent in this matter. After all, it's just gamepieces and we have so many more.

You are really making yourself look stupid with statements like that. That is a total misrepresentation of what I said, and you know it. I also find it interesting that you didn't quote me, although it is apparent that you are responding to my call for level heads here.

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OK, you have made me see the light.

 

I now feel sorry for poor Paul Repak. All he was doing was trying to protect his environment. He should suffer no strife and we should all donate to his defense fund.

If there is anything left over from his defense fund, we should send him to counseling. If there is any marital outfall from his excusable lapse of judgment then we should pay for he and his wife to go on a couples cruise together. If there is anyone in his employment that speaks ill of him or he suffers in any way in his job, we should all contact our congressmen to have them stand up for ths poor, misguided, man.

 

Perhaps we should all say prayers that he be forgiven and suffer no ill will. I shall start going to church immediately to gain favor with a higher power so that my prayers will go answered and poor, dear, Paul Repak gets aquitted of any wrongdoing.

 

Yes, we must feel bad for Mr. Repak for he is an innocent in this matter. After all, it's just gamepieces and we have so many more.

You are really making yourself look stupid with statements like that. That is a total misrepresentation of what I said, and you know it. I also find it interesting that you didn't quote me, although it is apparent that you are responding to my call for level heads here.

 

I was not repsonding to you or I would have quoted you. Don't take it personally.

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I'm not wishing any of that on the guy. I fully expect that it will not actually go to any kind of trial. It will most likely end up in an ACD and in a year the matter will be dismissed and the records sealed. However, should the guy loose his job or family or his home I would not feel bad about it. He is the one who did it. He is a supposedly intelligent person. He should be smart enough to understand that his actions would have consequences.

 

As for the whole echo angle that is just speculation. Nothing I have seen points to this guy having any such supposed lofty agenda.

 

Why do I get read the riot act when I say the same thing?

 

But, remember. We must coddle this poor misguided soul. Forgiveness is the path to enlightenment.

And, also remember, you aren't even allowed to have an opinion unless all of your caches have been stolen

It is all about attitude, my friend.

And, also remember, you aren't even allowed to have an opinion unless all of your caches have been stolen

You don't just have an opinion. You have an agenda. Just like the "maggot". You're no better than him. I at least try to be.

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OK, you have made me see the light.

 

I now feel sorry for poor Paul Repak. All he was doing was trying to protect his environment. He should suffer no strife and we should all donate to his defense fund.

If there is anything left over from his defense fund, we should send him to counseling. If there is any marital outfall from his excusable lapse of judgment then we should pay for he and his wife to go on a couples cruise together. If there is anyone in his employment that speaks ill of him or he suffers in any way in his job, we should all contact our congressmen to have them stand up for ths poor, misguided, man.

 

Perhaps we should all say prayers that he be forgiven and suffer no ill will. I shall start going to church immediately to gain favor with a higher power so that my prayers will go answered and poor, dear, Paul Repak gets aquitted of any wrongdoing.

 

Yes, we must feel bad for Mr. Repak for he is an innocent in this matter. After all, it's just gamepieces and we have so many more.

You are really making yourself look stupid with statements like that. That is a total misrepresentation of what I said, and you know it. I also find it interesting that you didn't quote me, although it is apparent that you are responding to my call for level heads here.

 

I was not repsonding to you or I would have quoted you. Don't take it personally.

Of course you weren't!! How embarrassingly foolish of me! You were actually responding to... who?

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His opinion was probably that geocaches were trash.

More mindless speculation: I think the guy is a borderline psycho. According to Flask, he's a premium member. If that's true, he's been spending $30 a year for nothing more than the opportunity to steal from others. He reminds me of a guy I met during a meeting with a local land manager. He was a member of some hiking organization, and was adamantly opposed to the existence of caches in the wild. This guy didn't view them as simple trash. He viewed them as an insult against Mother Nature. Abhorrent, disgusting "artifacts" left by man, destroying the environment. He & I agreed to disagree on the subject, and as far as I know, he's happy in his world, as I am happy in mine. The fidiot who has been stealing caches took this attitude to a whole new level by acting as Judge, jury and executioner on geocaches.

 

I can't begin to guess what aspect of his job requires a security clearance, but I can say that I am uncomfortable knowing that someone with such a twisted mental outlook is involved in some aspect of our military. This is not the kind of person who should have a security clearance. A bit more mindless speculation: This will end with the guy paying a token fine and losing his security clearance, which will result in him no longer being able to work in his current capacity. There is no way I could feel regret for actions that he brought upon himself.

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According to Flask, he's a premium member.

 

i only draw my conclusion on that from the fact that PMO caches were as vulnerable as reg'lar ones.

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His opinion was probably that geocaches were trash.

More mindless speculation: I think the guy is a borderline psycho. According to Flask, he's a premium member. If that's true, he's been spending $30 a year for nothing more than the opportunity to steal from others. He reminds me of a guy I met during a meeting with a local land manager. He was a member of some hiking organization, and was adamantly opposed to the existence of caches in the wild. This guy didn't view them as simple trash. He viewed them as an insult against Mother Nature. Abhorrent, disgusting "artifacts" left by man, destroying the environment. He & I agreed to disagree on the subject, and as far as I know, he's happy in his world, as I am happy in mine. The fidiot who has been stealing caches took this attitude to a whole new level by acting as Judge, jury and executioner on geocaches.

 

I can't begin to guess what aspect of his job requires a security clearance, but I can say that I am uncomfortable knowing that someone with such a twisted mental outlook is involved in some aspect of our military. This is not the kind of person who should have a security clearance. A bit more mindless speculation: This will end with the guy paying a token fine and losing his security clearance, which will result in him no longer being able to work in his current capacity. There is no way I could feel regret for actions that he brought upon himself.

Not mindless speculation at all. Just because he may have spent $30 a year to find PM caches (not a fact at this point, but anyway...) only means that he had a passion for what he believed in, just like this guy you wrote about. Sure... you and I disagree with these folks, but that does not mean that their intentions are not noble!! They aren't trying to ruin our fun... they are trying, in their own way, to protect the same environment that we all love. The only difference is that we don't see geocaches as a threat to that environment.

 

We seem to be acting as Judge, jury, and executioner here as well. All I am calling for here is some reason and a tiny bit of empathy. This is not a black and white area, and we are also asking for Mr "Maggot" to empathise with our point of view, aren't we? I don't think this is bleeding heart territory I'm venturing into. The guy stole our stuff. I have had my stuff, including caches, stolen. I'm ONLY asking for us to calm down... lower the terror level to at least yellow, and for god's sake, put the friggin' nooses away!!!

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Maybe he was just trying to be a real geocacher and forgot a pen to sign. In his desire to be legit, he took the caches home with him with the full intention of returning them but he hadn't gotten around to it yet.

Maybe he was taking them home to perform comprehensive cache maintenance and they all, somehow, mysteriously, were taken from him. No matter how many times he tried to do the right thing, something happened to the caches. And in his grief he decided to do even more cache maintenance... and the process repeated.

 

As long as we are all speculating...

 

He should get the benefit of the doubt. I have seen the light.

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This is the great fun of law, sorting out very complicated, conflicting rights.

One of my favorite books in my own law library is the collected Prize Cases from the US Supreme Court. Sadly, there hasn't been a litigated case in prize in the U.S. since the Spanish-American War. I love this sort of stuff.

 

I like to discuss it in a friendly manner when the situation allows for it... I'm just a lay person with an interest in mundane things regarding law and even just the interpretation of 'legalese'. I used to go for hours chatting with a HAM radio buddy as he commuted... sadly we had to wait til face to face for some things... and of course we both knew we couldn't discuss cases actively in the system, except for general principles... like the notion of ownership, definitions etc. but never guilt or innocence, or even punishments except as standard items... ie maximum vs minimum. Do things like that hold in US law? Do free speech rights exempt someone from suit for defamation or similar? I couldn't help but thinking re one of your earlier posts about treasure settlements... I certainly wouldn't have balked at 10% of the Nuestra Senora de Atocha treasure... of course the history of that held some really high costs for the salvors.

Any idea how the WWII art and valuable recovery cases are doing... another mess over ownership issues, although I heard they were settling up on many things. But again, I wander off topic a bit.

 

Doug

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