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GOF and Bacall

Cache maggot arrested.

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If someone put direction signs to a woody distance race and a smart nut decides to change or eliminate the signs in the woods ruining the game - I think the public would be outraged and demand punishment. Same is true for GEO-Caching. He is being mean just for the sake of it.

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The people who place the cachers are CACHE OWNERS.

 

Groundspeak is just a listing service for these caches that are privately owned.

 

So YES someone can steal a cache.

 

As someone pointed out, if you steal a candy bar you will still be arrested. Stealing is stealing.

 

So if you think someone should be able to get away with stealing a cache, then do you think they should be able to get away with stealing a hundred caches?

 

What if someone steals a hundred candy bars?

 

Someone pays in both cases (increased prices at the store to cover theft; new geocache containers to replace the old). Shouldn't the one who pays not be the one who stole?

 

If we continue to not prosecute theft, do we just keep paying the cost? Keep buying ammo boxes again and again?

 

I think the people who are in favor of letting the guy go, are thinking in terms of one key holder box and that's it. Like stealing one candy bar. What the heck, let him have it!

 

When in fact this matter is very different in this area. Many caches are taken on a regular basis.

 

So who shall pay the price of that?

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The people who place the cachers are CACHE OWNERS.

 

Groundspeak is just a listing service for these caches that are privately owned.

 

So YES someone can steal a cache.

 

As someone pointed out, if you steal a candy bar you will still be arrested. Stealing is stealing.

 

So if you think someone should be able to get away with stealing a cache, then do you think they should be able to get away with stealing a hundred caches?

 

What if someone steals a hundred candy bars?

 

Someone pays in both cases (increased prices at the store to cover theft; new geocache containers to replace the old). Shouldn't the one who pays not be the one who stole?

 

If we continue to not prosecute theft, do we just keep paying the cost? Keep buying ammo boxes again and again?

 

I think the people who are in favor of letting the guy go, are thinking in terms of one key holder box and that's it. Like stealing one candy bar. What the heck, let him have it!

 

When in fact this matter is very different in this area. Many caches are taken on a regular basis.

 

So who shall pay the price of that?

 

This is all well and good, and while I agree that the guy should not just be let off the hook, I think your reasoning is a little off. While cache owners are indeed considered cache "owners", if at any time I was to take a beach ball and leave it sitting on the beach for several weeks on end on the off chance that some friends of mine would come to the beach and visit my beach ball, if someone were to walk by and take it, would that really constitute theft? To me, the term cache owner implies more my responsibility of care taking than anything else.

 

On the other hand, if the beach ball is on your property, your point would stand as valid. But putting something that belongs to you in some random place and someone walking by and taking it does not make it theft.

 

This guy should be cited or fined or both for the intentional acts of theft and vandalism, and for being a jerk and making hundreds of geocachers want to punch him in the neck.

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Who are you responding to?

 

A number of people in this thread.

 

Let's see...

 

Opalblade said, "Sweet. Good thing the police had some spare time"

which makes it sound like catching a cache maggot is not important

 

It is agreeing with Bittsen who said,

"When the argument is made that the person "took an item that did not belong to him for the purpose of depriving others of exercising true intended use of the item" then that is theft."

 

It is agreeing with GOF who said:

"The question is what the definition of abandoned is. I say that a cache is not abandoned it is cached. Thus the name geocache. But that is just my opinion and I do not set legal precedent."

 

It was asserting that this is personal property that should be protected in response to

Readyornot who said,

"I don't believe the story... Why would a police officer stand around and wait for someone who ran into the woods with a magnet that someone left in a public place? I'm assuming it was a micro cache... I would love to stand in the courtroom and hear the judge laugh this one out of there! The only possible explanation is that the owner of the cache pushed the officer to press charges. It's not the officers job to judge the worth of the complaint. I'm sure he'd rather have the DA or judge laugh at this one"

 

It was assuring Tozainamboku that this is worth pursuing. He said,

"We'll see if the DA pressed charges or if he'd rathter not take public ridicule of being known for spending the public's dollars going after all those hide-a-key thieves."

 

The AlabamaRambler seemed to be having a bad day and just went off on the whole idea of prosecuting geocache thieves. I think I won't indicate this is in anyway a response to him. He'll feel better tomorrow i'm sure.

 

It was supporting and agreeing with Write Shop Robert who said,

"Stealing a Cache or it's contents is no less a real crime that shoplifting a candybar, and that cartainly can be prosecuted."

 

AH, and the Alabama Rambler came back feeling much better and gave this statement which I support,

"Theft is a crime. We pay the DA to prosecute crimes. He's doing what we pay him to do. Can't see much room for public ridicule there!

 

It is responding to GOF on property issues:

"There are some interesting property issues. While they are left in public and publicly accessible locations caches aren't abandoned. We maintain them. We refer to cache owners. We have rules for the transfer of ownership. Are some caches abandoned? Sure, but some bicycles are also abandoned. That doesn't make it OK to take a bike off the rack in front of the library, locked or not."

 

Mr. Yuck said,

"Now whether or not he should have been arrested, or if the charges will stick, that is highly debatable"

I do not think it's debatable, and my reply was meant to reflect that to him. But it is nonetheless, just my opinion.

 

blfentje (man that one's hard to spell) said,

"Cache maggots suck. But arrested and prosecuted? We have stooped (almost) as low as the maggot."

Which I was very much replying to by implying YES this guy should get arrested

 

my post was reiterating GOF who said,

"The history of stolen caches in that area is long. Many hundreds of caches have gone missing. I suspect that many thousands of dollars worth of cache containers, swag, bugs, and coins have gone missing. The very nature of the game has been distorted in that area. Kind, loving, and forgiving only goes so far."

 

blfentje is now letting it be known that he will replace all stolen cache containers. Please make a note of this:

"Now, if he had stolen a full sized toe pincher coffin, I agree tongue.gif But if he had stolen all of my nanos, I'd been delighted. In all seriousness, I do believe prosecution is complete waste of public dollars. For gosh sakes, if you want the three bucks to replace that lock-n-lock, stop over some night. I'll help you out."

My post was definitely responding to him, who thinks this is an issue of just ONE cache.

 

he went on to say, (which I was definitely replying to)

"Well, there is that gray area.. on the fence.. you're right I suppose. But I'd still rather donate the three bucks to Knowschad rather than having the county attorney spend 1000's. Maybe we could just hold our own geocaching court. Now that I am on board with."

 

and I'll close this lengthy response to a question there was a good reason it was not answered to begin with.

Here's Briansnat's answer, which is, as usual, insightful and well thought out:

 

"WE didn't arrest him, the police did. Prosecution is up to the state, it's not our call. It may or may not happen. As far as being forgiving, forgive some teenager who stole a cache or two to get his jollies, sure. Forgive a guy who may be the person who has dedicated his life to destroying our sport in the region? Sure, we can forgive him too, but please allow us to take delight in any inconveniences that his actions will bring upon him."

 

Now anyone after this does not have to read the entire thread

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I thought Halloween was over, yet here is this tread, rising from the grave in search of braaaaaiiiinssssssss...

Don't look at me. I'm fresh out. :santa:

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Who are you responding to?

A number of people in this thread. ...
The reason that I had asked is becasue this issue had long since entered the penalty phase. Until you posted, there didn't appear to be anyone arguing against you.

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This is all well and good, and while I agree that the guy should not just be let off the hook, I think your reasoning is a little off. While cache owners are indeed considered cache "owners", if at any time I was to take a beach ball and leave it sitting on the beach for several weeks on end on the off chance that some friends of mine would come to the beach and visit my beach ball, if someone were to walk by and take it, would that really constitute theft? To me, the term cache owner implies more my responsibility of care taking than anything else.

 

On the other hand, if the beach ball is on your property, your point would stand as valid. But putting something that belongs to you in some random place and someone walking by and taking it does not make it theft.

I think that you are overlooking the permission issue. If you obtained permission from the landowner to leave your ball at the beach and a third party took your ball, it would constitute theft.

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Who are you responding to?

 

A number of people in this thread.

 

Let's see...

 

Opalblade said, "Sweet. Good thing the police had some spare time"

which makes it sound like catching a cache maggot is not important

 

It is agreeing with Bittsen who said,

"When the argument is made that the person "took an item that did not belong to him for the purpose of depriving others of exercising true intended use of the item" then that is theft."

 

It is agreeing with GOF who said:

"The question is what the definition of abandoned is. I say that a cache is not abandoned it is cached. Thus the name geocache. But that is just my opinion and I do not set legal precedent."

 

It was asserting that this is personal property that should be protected in response to

Readyornot who said,

"I don't believe the story... Why would a police officer stand around and wait for someone who ran into the woods with a magnet that someone left in a public place? I'm assuming it was a micro cache... I would love to stand in the courtroom and hear the judge laugh this one out of there! The only possible explanation is that the owner of the cache pushed the officer to press charges. It's not the officers job to judge the worth of the complaint. I'm sure he'd rather have the DA or judge laugh at this one"

 

It was assuring Tozainamboku that this is worth pursuing. He said,

"We'll see if the DA pressed charges or if he'd rathter not take public ridicule of being known for spending the public's dollars going after all those hide-a-key thieves."

 

The AlabamaRambler seemed to be having a bad day and just went off on the whole idea of prosecuting geocache thieves. I think I won't indicate this is in anyway a response to him. He'll feel better tomorrow i'm sure.

 

It was supporting and agreeing with Write Shop Robert who said,

"Stealing a Cache or it's contents is no less a real crime that shoplifting a candybar, and that cartainly can be prosecuted."

 

AH, and the Alabama Rambler came back feeling much better and gave this statement which I support,

"Theft is a crime. We pay the DA to prosecute crimes. He's doing what we pay him to do. Can't see much room for public ridicule there!

 

It is responding to GOF on property issues:

"There are some interesting property issues. While they are left in public and publicly accessible locations caches aren't abandoned. We maintain them. We refer to cache owners. We have rules for the transfer of ownership. Are some caches abandoned? Sure, but some bicycles are also abandoned. That doesn't make it OK to take a bike off the rack in front of the library, locked or not."

 

Mr. Yuck said,

"Now whether or not he should have been arrested, or if the charges will stick, that is highly debatable"

I do not think it's debatable, and my reply was meant to reflect that to him. But it is nonetheless, just my opinion.

 

blfentje (man that one's hard to spell) said,

"Cache maggots suck. But arrested and prosecuted? We have stooped (almost) as low as the maggot."

Which I was very much replying to by implying YES this guy should get arrested

 

my post was reiterating GOF who said,

"The history of stolen caches in that area is long. Many hundreds of caches have gone missing. I suspect that many thousands of dollars worth of cache containers, swag, bugs, and coins have gone missing. The very nature of the game has been distorted in that area. Kind, loving, and forgiving only goes so far."

 

blfentje is now letting it be known that he will replace all stolen cache containers. Please make a note of this:

"Now, if he had stolen a full sized toe pincher coffin, I agree tongue.gif But if he had stolen all of my nanos, I'd been delighted. In all seriousness, I do believe prosecution is complete waste of public dollars. For gosh sakes, if you want the three bucks to replace that lock-n-lock, stop over some night. I'll help you out."

My post was definitely responding to him, who thinks this is an issue of just ONE cache.

 

he went on to say, (which I was definitely replying to)

"Well, there is that gray area.. on the fence.. you're right I suppose. But I'd still rather donate the three bucks to Knowschad rather than having the county attorney spend 1000's. Maybe we could just hold our own geocaching court. Now that I am on board with."

 

and I'll close this lengthy response to a question there was a good reason it was not answered to begin with.

Here's Briansnat's answer, which is, as usual, insightful and well thought out:

 

"WE didn't arrest him, the police did. Prosecution is up to the state, it's not our call. It may or may not happen. As far as being forgiving, forgive some teenager who stole a cache or two to get his jollies, sure. Forgive a guy who may be the person who has dedicated his life to destroying our sport in the region? Sure, we can forgive him too, but please allow us to take delight in any inconveniences that his actions will bring upon him."

 

Now anyone after this does not have to read the entire thread

 

:huh: You didn't quote me!! I'm crushed! :D

 

 

You did realize that this is an old thread that was bumped, riiight? :laughing:

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You did realize that this is an old thread that was bumped, riiight? :D

That's why I quoted Castle Mischief. It seemed like the most appropriate post in the current time period. Maybe I got me some of them brains after all! :huh:

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Now anyone after this does not have to read the entire thread

 

Imagine my disappointment to not have been quoted. :huh: I know I mention somewhere in here the fact that no laws were actually broken, well, other than the arresting officers.

 

That should keep you guys busy for a while. :D

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I see we're back to the "burn him at the steak" mode of discussion.

 

Awesome.

 

Maybe not quite that.. Steak implies some cannibalism might be involved. Simply burning him at the stake however would be appropriate. :rolleyes:

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....This is all well and good, and while I agree that the guy should not just be let off the hook, I think your reasoning is a little off. While cache owners are indeed considered cache "owners", if at any time I was to take a beach ball and leave it sitting on the beach for several weeks on end on the off chance that some friends of mine would come to the beach and visit my beach ball, if someone were to walk by and take it, would that really constitute theft? To me, the term cache owner implies more my responsibility of care taking than anything else.

 

On the other hand, if the beach ball is on your property, your point would stand as valid. But putting something that belongs to you in some random place and someone walking by and taking it does not make it theft....

 

The point is valid. It doesn't matter if the beach ball is on your property, your buddies, or in a public park. It's your pesronal property and it's theft and given time enough and money enough to force the system to work.

 

I say that for two reasons. Theft has a magnitude at which the police will pay attention. Someone shot out the window of my rig. The police said "need a report for insurance". meanwhile at the same time someone was shooting out dozens of windows in cars in a town 50 miles away. That they took seriously and promised action. Same issue. Shooting out windows. Nobody was out much. But in one town they prosecuite and in another they don't. They have access to the same laws in either case for enforcment. The second reason is that if I did have the money I could have forced the same issue. Hired a PI to do the legwork, got the evidence and eventually with enough work found the culprit and brought him to the police and force the issue.

 

It's not a "to me it seems" issue. The law is the law. There is a priority to it in LEO enforcement but it's all enforcable.

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Now anyone after this does not have to read the entire thread

 

Imagine my disappointment to not have been quoted. :rolleyes: I know I mention somewhere in here the fact that no laws were actually broken, well, other than the arresting officers.

 

That should keep you guys busy for a while. ;)

 

I'm gonna take your bike the next time you leave it in public.

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Now anyone after this does not have to read the entire thread

 

Imagine my disappointment to not have been quoted. :rolleyes: I know I mention somewhere in here the fact that no laws were actually broken, well, other than the arresting officers.

 

That should keep you guys busy for a while. ;)

 

I'm gonna take your bike the next time you leave it in public.

Bike, smike. Next time I see a car parked near a cache, it's mine!

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Laugh...

 

What makes it even funnier are the type of conversations the cache maggot will have to endure...

 

Employer: Thanks for applying Mr X... I notice you checked "criminal conviction"... care to explain that?

 

Mr X: Uh..yes...I was arrested for stealing a tupperware container.

 

Employer: And why would you do that?

 

Mr X: uh... I wanted the free stickers and key chains inside

 

Employer: I see...well..... thanks for applying.

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Laugh...

 

What makes it even funnier are the type of conversations the cache maggot will have to endure...

 

Employer: Thanks for applying Mr X... I notice you checked "criminal conviction"... care to explain that?

 

 

It has been a long time since we have had this kind of thread. I was not going to reply, but for the purposes of clarification, without wanting to re-raise all the issues that were discussed at length, Mr. Repak will not have to declare a "conviction" since he received an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal (ACD). Of course, the arrest was reported for the purposes of his security clearance, and the incident was undoubtedly embarrassing. Whether he did anything illegal was never litigated. But as far as I know he is currently using his talents for good rather than evil.

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It has been a long time since we have had this kind of thread. I was not going to reply, but for the purposes of clarification, without wanting to re-raise all the issues that were discussed at length, Mr. Repak will not have to declare a "conviction" since he received an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal (ACD). Of course, the arrest was reported for the purposes of his security clearance, and the incident was undoubtedly embarrassing. Whether he did anything illegal was never litigated. But as far as I know he is currently using his talents for good rather than evil.

fixed :laughing: Edited by sbell111

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I am an avid geocacher and I am glad this guy got caught but i don't know if a conviction and court case are necessary. It could easily cause more problems for us as a community and cause animosity in others. On the other hand, I am terribly happy for the locals.

 

Honestly conviction or not, its less than a slap on the wrist. I'm surprised they would even arrest him for a 4$ geocache. The laws for theft are generally a fine and at most community service.

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