Glues or Adhesives

[+Johnie & Crystal]

Ok, here is what we need. We live in Tennessee where the weather is very unpredictable. We love to hide crazy caches, but seem to be having issues with adhesives. We have tried crazy glue, water proof adhesive, jb weld, and velcro.So if someone that is used to all types of weather conditions PLEASE HELP!!! If maybe you know a website that may be of use to use on this matter please let us know. Any and all help will be great. Thanks for taking the time to read this forum.

[+StarBrand]

Depends - what do you want to adhere to what??

[+mr007s]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

It does help to know what surfaces you want to join. Some adhesives will not hold on certain types of surfaces.

 

Heating/cooling/water/UV affects each type of adhesive differently, shortening it's lifespan either singly or in combination.

 

The best all-around we have found is Lexel® clear silicone sealant. Though not actually intended as an adhesive, it does well in water or hot/cold situations. It will stick to almost anything -- including your fingers!

 

Cure time is important (with any adhesive). Plan on leaving your workpiece untouched for at least a week, preferably two weeks. It may be painted (don't know how long it will hold paint -- yet), but it must be completely cured before painting.

 

Next choice is epoxy (not the 5-minute garbage because it is garbage).

 

I haven't even looked at other adhesives. Not true really, because we did look at super-glue. It (IMO) is the very last choice. Being thin, it cannot fill gaps that need to be filled in order for it to hold well.

 

There are other good adhesives, but most are surface specific.

[+Johnie & Crystal]

Depends - what do you want to adhere to what??

 

We are looking to adhere like a penny to a plastic bison tube or golf ball or a stick or things like that theres a lot of thing we have been looking at on ebay.

[+Johnie & Crystal]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

 

Whats is RTV and where can we get it.

[+mr007s]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

 

Whats is RTV and where can we get it.

 

It's a silicone rubber sealant, comes in a variety of colors. Can find at most hardware stores, walmart, plumbing supply stores, etc. One of the above post says cure a week or so. I usually alloy 24 hrs. I'm not talking about caulk, that's something else.

[+Johnie & Crystal]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

 

Whats is RTV and where can we get it.

 

It's a silicone rubber sealant, comes in a variety of colors. Can find at most hardware stores, walmart, plumbing supply stores, etc. One of the above post says cure a week or so. I usually alloy 24 hrs. I'm not talking about caulk, that's something else.

 

Thank You

[+KeeperOfTheMist]

yes RTV works pretty good.. if you have changed valve cover gaskets you have probably ran across its use. holds up to oil heat cold water all excellent..

 

for adhesive i use epoxy putty. easier and a little less messy then liquid 2 part epoxy and works on trail to fix cracks in caches quick as well. just cut a chunk off kneed it to mix it (may get warm on hands but not enough to hurt) untill its kinda sticky apply to your penny or tube, apply a little pressure for about 2-3 minutes and boom its good enough to release. just it takes 6-12hrs (depending on brand) to cure. it similar to JB putty (by jb weld) but without the metal added to it.. actually i recently had to reattach an anchor to one of my urbans and used this worked great..

Edited February 16, 2010 by KeeperOfTheMist

[knowschad]

Depends - what do you want to adhere to what??

We are looking to adhere like a penny to a plastic bison tube or golf ball or a stick or things like that theres a lot of thing we have been looking at on ebay.

A penny will expand and contract considerably with temperature fluctuations. The plastic bison tube will not. You will need an adhesive that will have some flexibility for that situation. As has been pointed out already, there is no magic bullet. You need to learn the properties of each adhesive and each substrate.

 

As for a website, 3M is a pretty knowledgeable company in that area: http://www.mpsupplies.com/3madhesivechart.html

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

Or use this: http://www.thistothat.com/

[knowschad]

Or use this: http://www.thistothat.com/

Good catch!!! Forget my link... way too complicated. This one is simple and straightforward. Kudos!

[+FunnyNose]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

 

Whats is RTV and where can we get it.

 

It's a silicone rubber sealant, comes in a variety of colors. Can find at most hardware stores, walmart, plumbing supply stores, etc. One of the above post says cure a week or so. I usually alloy 24 hrs. I'm not talking about caulk, that's something else.

 

I have found polyurethane superior to any of the silicones.

Edited February 16, 2010 by FunnyNose

[knowschad]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

Whats is RTV and where can we get it.

It's a silicone rubber sealant, comes in a variety of colors. Can find at most hardware stores, walmart, plumbing supply stores, etc. One of the above post says cure a week or so. I usually alloy 24 hrs. I'm not talking about caulk, that's something else.

I have found polyurethane superior to any of the silicones.

... for gluing what to what? Sorry, but you just can't make blanket statements like that about adhesives without knowing what the subtrates and environmental conditions are. There are just too many variables.

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

... for gluing what to what? Sorry, but you just can't make blanket statements like that about adhesives without knowing what the subtrates and environmental conditions are. There are just too many variables.

 

exactly, check the link I posted, it gives you suggestions, then you click on those suggestions and it tells you how toxic they are and other things about the adhesive.

 

Be careful out there

[+firemanjim903mfd]

I work in a hardware store and the best line of glues and epoxy's is GORILLA GLUE . They have a large line of products . The GORILLA GLUE EPOXY is about the strongest thing they have . We used it at work to replace the head if a sledge hammer back on its handle .

[+FunnyNose]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

Whats is RTV and where can we get it.

It's a silicone rubber sealant, comes in a variety of colors. Can find at most hardware stores, walmart, plumbing supply stores, etc. One of the above post says cure a week or so. I usually alloy 24 hrs. I'm not talking about caulk, that's something else.

I have found polyurethane superior to any of the silicones.

... for gluing what to what? Sorry, but you just can't make blanket statements like that about adhesives without knowing what the subtrates and environmental conditions are. There are just too many variables.

 

In 99% of the instances where someone would use silicone the polyurethanes give superior adhesive results.

[+WHO-DEY]

easy.

 

[knowschad]

I use RTV on just about everything. Hard to beat.

Whats is RTV and where can we get it.

It's a silicone rubber sealant, comes in a variety of colors. Can find at most hardware stores, walmart, plumbing supply stores, etc. One of the above post says cure a week or so. I usually alloy 24 hrs. I'm not talking about caulk, that's something else.

I have found polyurethane superior to any of the silicones.

... for gluing what to what? Sorry, but you just can't make blanket statements like that about adhesives without knowing what the subtrates and environmental conditions are. There are just too many variables.

 

In 99% of the instances where someone would use silicone the polyurethanes give superior adhesive results.

Fair enough. And a little quick research shows that the category includes the much-touted Gorlilla Glue.

One thing that I don't like about Gorilla Glue, however, is the expansion as it sets. I've also had it give out on me when gluing two smooth, non-porous substrates (chrome plated magnet to plexiglas), but that is a pretty severe test for any adhesive, I guess.

[+WHO-DEY]

knowschad.

 

I thought of you over the weekend. (creeped out yet?) I was watching the olympics....and there was a snowboarder named "K.SCHAD".

[knowschad]

knowschad.

 

I thought of you over the weekend. (creeped out yet?) I was watching the olympics....and there was a snowboarder named "K.SCHAD".

[+FunnyNose]

easy.

 

 

Does not have the expansion issues like Gorilla

[+ZeroHecksGiven]

Yeah, I just used gorilla glue on a couple micros I'm putting out today or tomorrow. The expansion is kind of lame, though I suppose I could sand that down if I really wanted.

[jholly]

One I found that works well is liquid nails small projects adhesive. Get the waterproof variety, it is lasting just fine here in the Pacific North Wet. I used it to glue some bark to a lock and lock. The Gorilla glue is good, but it expands a lot and can ooze out of cracks and what not. It also does not fill cracks well until it expands. The nice thing about the liquid nail product is that it does not expand and fills crack pretty good. The bad thing is that it take a while to dry. The really bad thing is if you don't get the waterproof variety it melts in the rain and makes a nice mess. The waterproof variety states it can't be used below the waterline.

[+eigengott]

penny to a plastic bison tube or golf ball

 

Forget about glue. A hole and a screw do the trick.

[knowschad]

penny to a plastic bison tube or golf ball

Forget about glue. A hole and a screw do the trick.

Forgetting about glue isn't always the answer, either, or else they never would have invented glue (or, did glue come first?? ??) But that does bring up a very important point... whenever you can assist glue by using some sort of mechanical binding, you will have much more success.

[+Waazdag]

"Goop"... http://eclecticproducts.com/ag_adhesives_epoxies.htm

 

Takes a while to cure but holds up well in weather and climate change conditions... only thing I use for caches

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

 

Notice how asking for help only creates confusion!

 

[4wheelin_fool]

One I found that works well is liquid nails small projects adhesive. Get the waterproof variety, it is lasting just fine here in the Pacific North Wet. I used it to glue some bark to a lock and lock. The Gorilla glue is good, but it expands a lot and can ooze out of cracks and what not. It also does not fill cracks well until it expands. The nice thing about the liquid nail product is that it does not expand and fills crack pretty good. The bad thing is that it take a while to dry. The really bad thing is if you don't get the waterproof variety it melts in the rain and makes a nice mess. The waterproof variety states it can't be used below the waterline.

 

I used the same stuff (waterproof liquid nails) for nearly the same application ( gluing bark to an ammo can) and it worked great. Quite a few people enjoyed the cammo. Gorilla glue is good also, but you only need a very small amount and should use a clamp to hold it in place.

[+EScout]

I like 2-part epoxy for metal to metal, or magnet to metal. J-B Weld with filler is stronger than clear epoxy.

 

Polyurethane (Gorilla glue) is good for attaching things to a container like burlap, bark, sticks.

 

I recently attached rocks to an ammo can (reason: to ugly it and make it heavy to discourage it being stolen again.) The best thing I found for this use was RTV silicone (room temperature vulcanizing). It is very strong on rocks, concrete, metal, fills gaps and keeps flexible. Does not take paint so used black. 40g tube only costs 99 cents and was more than enough for one ammo can.

 

The liquid nails idea sounds good.

[+fizzymagic]

In general, the use of adhesives is inferior to the use of mechanical attachments.

 

Magnets are the best example: a ring magnet can fit over the small part of the end of a bison tube and can be affixed using either the split ring or a paper clip used as a cotter pin. That arrangement will last indefinitely and doesn't require any glue.

 

Likewise, magnets attached to metal with screws are much, much better than those held with glue.

 

I've never seen a glue that will stick well to polyethylene or polypropylene (which is what Tupperware, Gladware, Lock-n-Locks, etc. are made of). On the other hand, glues can work well with wood and other porous materials. Glues can work reasonably well with steel and copper, but I don't know of any glue that holds particularly well on aluminum because of its oxide layer.

 

If I were trying to attach a penny to a bison tube, I would try first to come up with a mechanical attachment and only use glue as a last resort. Try using solder, which works well with the copper alloy that pennies are made of.

[grub54891]

White 3M Marine 5200 Adhesive / Sealant 3...

3M Marine 5200 Adhesive / Sealant retains its strength above or below the waterline! This high performance polyurethane...

 

Try this stuff,We use it pretty regular at the marina.The stuff stick's well!Most any surface,sealing port window's hatches,ext.It comes in white or black,they also sell 4000 marine adhesive that work's just as well.check at your local marina or part's store should be able to get it also.Can get it in caulk gun size or the smaller tube's.

Grub

[+Wooden Cyclist]

I have been having a lot of success with Loctite Repair Extreme.

 

It bonds to a wide variety of materials, is flexible and is easy to work with. Some of the containers that I built with stuff have been through the changing temperature and moisture of the seasons in Michigan and are holding up well.

 

Camo paint sticks to it also, which is a definite plus.

[+Castle Mischief]

Fair enough. And a little quick research shows that the category includes the much-touted Gorilla Glue.

One thing that I don't like about Gorilla Glue, however, is the expansion as it sets. I've also had it give out on me when gluing two smooth, non-porous substrates (chrome plated magnet to Plexiglas), but that is a pretty severe test for any adhesive, I guess.

 

I'd also add that Gorilla Glue isn't much good on flexible plastics. As soon as the plastic bends in any direction, the inflexible gorilla glue will pop right off.

[+Johnie & Crystal]

We are very thankful for all the help keep it up.

[+StarBrand]

....

If I were trying to attach a penny to a bison tube, I would try first to come up with a mechanical attachment and only use glue as a last resort. Try using solder, which works well with the copper alloy that pennies are made of.

Great advice!!

[+Castle Mischief]

....

If I were trying to attach a penny to a bison tube, I would try first to come up with a mechanical attachment and only use glue as a last resort. Try using solder, which works well with the copper alloy that pennies are made of.

Great advice!!

 

For a plastic bison tube?

[+Castle Mischief]

For adhesive i use epoxy putty. easier and a little less messy then liquid 2 part epoxy and works on trail to fix cracks in caches quick as well. just cut a chunk off kneed it to mix it (may get warm on hands but not enough to hurt) until its kinda sticky apply to your penny or tube, apply a little pressure for about 2-3 minutes and boom its good enough to release. just it takes 6-12hrs (depending on brand) to cure. it similar to JB putty (by jb weld) but without the metal added to it.. actually i recently had to reattach an anchor to one of my urbans and used this worked great..

 

I recently used epoxy putty to camo a bison tube and I've kind of fallen in love with the stuff. I haven't tried using it as purely to bond two materials together, but I can attest to the hardness and general durability of the cured product. It's like making your own custom-shaped little piece of darn-hard rock. There will be some slight expansion, but nowhere near as much as Gorilla Glue.

 

Epoxy putty

[+wimseyguy]

I'm partial to Marine Goop. I like its extra viscosity which helps fill the gaps when gluing uneven surfaces to one another. I figure if it is formulated for sticking things together on boats it should do well in most weather conditions around here.

[CoyoteRed]

Mechanical fasteners are superior to adhesives. Period.

 

Mechanical bonds are superior to simply adhering things together. This would include solvents that melt things together as well.

 

If I want to pretty much guarantee a bonding where I can't use a screw or other fastener, I'll use rough sandpaper for a rough surface or even drill tiny shallow holes for the adhesive to get into. A lot of glues etc. will hardened to very hard. If it can get a good mechanical grip that will make it harder to compromise the grip elsewhere. I'll augment glues with fibers for a stronger overall job.

 

If I were to want to attach a penny to a golf ball and really want it to stay and not want the head of a screw poking out, here's what I'd do. Use a flat head screw or make one. Solder the head to the penny. Drill a hold in the golf ball. Fill the hole with glue. Insert screw in hole. Done.

 

Magnets to almost anything? Buy the magnet cups here. The cups will increase the effectiveness of the magnets and provide a way to attach the magnet. Win-win.

 

Oh, and also think about how the two things are going to be handled. How will the bond be pulled, flexed, twisted, etc. when deciding on how to attach things.

[+Castle Mischief]

Depends - what do you want to adhere to what??

 

We are looking to adhere like a penny to a plastic bison tube or golf ball or a stick or things like that theres a lot of thing we have been looking at on ebay.

 

Hold the phone. I think there's some confusion. Are you...

 

Trying to attach a penny to either a plastic bison tube, golf ball or stick?

 

-OR-

 

Trying to attach a plastic bison tube to either a penny, golf ball or stick?

[knowschad]

Ok, here is what we need. We live in Tennessee where the weather is very unpredictable.

Maybe they just want some decent weather to stick around for a while.

[+Johnie & Crystal]

Ok, here is what we need. We live in Tennessee where the weather is very unpredictable.

Maybe they just want some decent weather to stick around for a while.

 

Yes Yes go from mid to high 40's to 20 with snow sucks. Where is summer when we need it.

[+fizzymagic]

....

If I were trying to attach a penny to a bison tube, I would try first to come up with a mechanical attachment and only use glue as a last resort. Try using solder, which works well with the copper alloy that pennies are made of.

Great advice!!

For a plastic bison tube?

Yes, same as an aluminum tube. Solder a mechanical clamp on to the back of the penny and then clamp the penny to the tube.

Edited February 17, 2010 by fizzymagic

[knowschad]

Isn't solder essentially an adhesive, too, though?

[+bittsen]

Isn't solder essentially an adhesive, too, though?

 

NO, solder is NOT an adhesive.

[knowschad]

Isn't solder essentially an adhesive, too, though?

NO, solder is NOT an adhesive.

If you say so.

Notice, I said, "essentially". I believe that both solder and adhesives work on an electron bond*. There is no melting of the substrates like there is in a welding process.

 

*However, I am by no means an Uber Genius!

[+bittsen]

Isn't solder essentially an adhesive, too, though?

NO, solder is NOT an adhesive.

If you say so.

Notice, I said, "essentially". I believe that both solder and adhesives work on an electron bond*. There is no melting of the substrates like there is in a welding process.

 

*However, I am by no means an Uber Genius!

 

A good solder bond requires "tinning" of the metal being soldered. Basically allowing the solder to bond with the metal as opposed to bonding to the metal. That is the difference with adhesives (glue) in that adhesives bond TO a surface, not with it. Though with porous surfaces, I suppose the argument could be made that it's not bonded "to" the surface.

[knowschad]

If I'm not mistaken, all tinning does is to prevent oxidation during the heating process.

I know that solder is not considered an adhesive in the general sense... my point is that the bonding process is essentially similar... an electrical attraction between molecules (very much a layman's interpretation!!) rather than the physical merging of materials that happen when you weld, or the purely physical connection of using a screw or nail or whatever. OK, this is probably getting wayyyyy off topic and we should probably drop it.

[CoyoteRed]

Isn't solder essentially an adhesive, too, though?

In a way, yes.

 

Here's the thing with solder, and brazing for that matter, the materials are very similar. The solder is tin and lead. What you're soldering is copper, aluminum and similar metals. You can't, for instance, solder copper to plastic. Because the materials are similar the bond is very strong.

 

Hot glue in a sense is similar to solder. There is not a chemical reaction like a lot of adhesives, but it still bonds things together.

 

On the similar materials issue, millions of fish enthusiast rely on silicone sealant to seal their glass aquariums. Silicone sticks like mad! Why? The silicone in the sealant is chemically similar to the silicone in the glass.